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Is the End of Physical Media Inevitable? - Page 6

Poll Results: Is the End of Physical Media Inevitable?

 
  • 2% (23)
    Yes, physical media will quickly disappear altogether
  • 18% (198)
    Yes, physical media will slowly disappear altogether
  • 34% (369)
    No, new physical formats will continue to be developed
  • 44% (470)
    No, but physical media will become a niche market for enthusiasts
1060 Total Votes  
post #151 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

In the US we have very poor bandwidth which is why the streaming services are unable to send all the digital information stored on a Blu-ray disk. Then there are the Comcasts of the US standing there ready to charge extra for that amount of bandwidth.
Of course it is. All you have to do is handle the same amount of digital data that's on a Blu-ray disk either as a stream or as a download for controlled later viewing.
But it is. That's exactly what's happening when we make bit perfect copies of Blu-ray disks to store on our home systems.
If you mean a live performance then you're correct. If you mean a digital recording like those found on CD, DVD, and Blu-ray, then perfect copies are easy.
Unfortunately, each step away from the master recording used to produce vinyl records results in a loss of analog information. Each playing of a vinyl disk results in a loss of analog information. Each left over particle from the manufacturing process produces pops.
There are lossless music tracks available for sale via download that will match or better any CD recording. That's not the issue. You can store those downloaded music tracks and copies of your CDs as perfect reproductions. The movie stream have been heavily compressed by the service providing them. There is nothing to stop perfect streams other than the poor shape that the Internet infrastructure is in to handle such a big new load.



Well Yoda you have systematically dissected my post biggrin.gif but I'll still say the disc quality is better. Just like I'll say good vinyl quality is better than a disc. I believe there's something lost in the transfer and people say I just converted this from this format to this format and it sounds so much better, I'm not buying it. Listen to a good disc and then try to find it online and download it. I tried the main HD download site and it might have been as good as a red book CD, maybe.



Somehow I quoted the wrong post, I'll blame it on digital transfer wink.gif
Edited by comfynumb - 4/9/13 at 5:02pm
post #152 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

After a 3 year investigation a man was arrested today for copying his own DVD and blu ray library.
I tried to find that report and Google failed me, or I failed Google. Can you locate the report's source.

What I did find that we are now allowed to copy our own CDs, it's still against the current law to copy purchased DVD and Blu-ray disks. There is a current drive to overturn that aspect of the law.
post #153 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

It is nice to have your media on a hard drive it dedicated server. But what if you didn't own the discs to get it there and had your movies on someone else's server in Timbuktu?

I would stop buying them. I refuse to own any media that I can't make at least one backup copy of if I want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Storing multiple discs is not difficult. Separate the DVD and Blu-ray, then put them in alphabetical order. I have 2,000 DVD and 1,000 BD plus 2,000 CD. Never had any problem finding disc, etc.

You're obviously much more organized than I am and have more shelf space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

{rant}As the law is currently written, under pressure from heavy movie industry lobby money and campaign contributions, none of us should have copies of the shinny disks that we own. What we should do is buy a new copy anytime a disk is damaged. What they really want is pay per view delivered in the cheapest possible way.{/rant} eek.gif

http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html?embed=true
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

I noticed in your equipment list that you have a 23TB NAS?
I would love to go all digital storage with my owned collection, but the whole BR ripping/copying thing seems like a multi-step challenge I am just not quite ready for.
If one was to get their feet wet, and give it a try >> BRs to digital storage >> How many programs are needed to make a digital copy of an owned disk?

MakeMKV is free to try and easy to use. It makes a 1 to 1 copy of your blurays and dvd's into an MKV file. There are quite a number of ways to play these files on your TV. I would investigate the Media Streamer and HTPC subforums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

After a 3 year investigation a man was arrested today for copying his own DVD and blu ray library. What a ridiculous law and I wonder how much money exchanged hands for that bill to pass.

Do you have a source for this?
Edited by robnix - 4/9/13 at 5:22pm
post #154 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I tried to find that report and Google failed me, or I failed Google. Can you locate the report's source.

What I did find that we are now allowed to copy our own CDs, it's still against the current law to copy purchased DVD and Blu-ray disks. There is a current drive to overturn that aspect of the law.



The first part was a joke on my part. I am glad that they are trying to overturn the DVD law. They should be ours to own and copy for backup purposes smile.gif
post #155 of 920
Reread my post about the guy arrested. I said I've never watched the news and heard a man arrested for copying.
post #156 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Listen to a good disc and then try to find it online and download it. I tried the main HD download site and it might have been as good as a red book CD, maybe.

Somehow I quoted the wrong post, I'll blame it on digital transfer wink.gif
smile.gif

I think that you've been referring to vinyl recordings as discs. When I think of discs (even if I spell it disk), I'm thinking of CD, DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray shiny discs. It's probably not worth unscrambling what I wrote. In summary, any shiny disc can be copied perfectly and stored or transmitted perfectly. To make a digital copy of an analog source is always going to be problematic. Sorry for the confusion. smile.gif
Edited by htwaits - 4/9/13 at 7:15pm
post #157 of 920
When I says disc I meant CD's and DVD's. No
Problem have a good night.
post #158 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Reread my post about the guy arrested. I said I've never watched the news and heard a man arrested for copying.
OK. Did you hear that from a friend? Did you hear anything that would help us find the story on the Internet?

All us folks who copy our shiny discs are interested in the details of the three year investigation. It could be that the guy was buying one shinny disc, and then selling endless home made copies. I did find a bust that happened when a guy was pulled over for a tail light infraction. The back of his car was full of boot leg discs. Of course there was no three year investigation in that case. biggrin.gif
post #159 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

OK. Did you hear that from a friend? Did you hear anything that would help us find the story on the Internet?

All us folks who copy our shiny discs are interested in the details of the three year investigation. It could be that the guy was buying one shinny disc, and then selling endless home made copies. I did find a bust that happened when a guy was pulled over for a tail light infraction. The back of his car was full of boot leg discs. Of course there was no three year investigation in that case. biggrin.gif



No it never happened that I know of. I've heard of people arrested for distributing them but never for personal use.
post #160 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

When I says disc I meant CD's and DVD's. No
Problem have a good night.
You too. Now, moving on ...
Edited by htwaits - 4/10/13 at 12:02pm
post #161 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post


I will never understand ripping your own movies and putting them on a server. It takes so much more effort to maybe save 30 seconds to walk over to the rack of Blu-rays, pick one up, and put it in the machine... And the whole idea of a collection is to have something physical to thumb through or look at...

If you believe (as I do) that 4K digital is light years ahead of watching badly focused analog projectors and scratched film, then I would say you are a prime candidate for copying your BDs onto a NAS and watching them that way.

I rip all of my discs using MakeMKV (takes about 15-20 minutes per title) and then they go on the shelf and don't get touched again unless I (for some weird reason) want to watch a different cut of the movie than the one I ripped... I don't rip the entire disc, just the main title, HD audio track and subtitles. Even then I am thinking of boxing my collection up (almost 400 BDs and 100+ DVDs) and storing in the basement because every time friends with little ones come over the first thing the kids do is charge the movie wall and start pulling all the movies out.

While it might not be much effort to walk over and pull a disc from the shelf, here's why NAS storage is better;

1. You can have multiple media streamers sprinkled around the house and watch all your movies in any room without schlepping the discs around.
2. You have a digital backup of the original in the event the original is lost or destroyed somehow.
3. The "startup" and playback of the movie title is almost instantaneous. No skipping through 15 minutes of inane trailers and "commercials" from the studios.

Back to the topic at hand.... I don't really understand why the studios won't give collectors like myself what we want... an original bit-perfect MKV or ISO of the disc that I can play on whatever device I like.
post #162 of 920
I still wish Amazon would give me 16-bit PCM uncompressed stereo wav files of every piece of mp3 music I've bought from them. But it's not going to happen.

It took the music industry over a decade to embrace the selling of DRM-free music. It'll probably take twice as long for tv/movie industry to even consider selling DRM-free video, let alone minimally-compressed "bit-perfect" DRM-free video.

I would settle for a digital copy (from the vendor(s) of MY choice) of any BD I purchase. Essentially something like Amazon's Autorip... for BD purchases. No extra retail packaging or additional discs; which we all know artificially increases the retail price. Buy the disc, and the digital copy is unlocked into your library automatically. How simple is that? I have a harder time understanding why the studio don't do that.
post #163 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by calculon68 View Post

I still wish Amazon would give me 16-bit PCM uncompressed stereo wav files of every piece of mp3 music I've bought from them. But it's not going to happen.

It took the music industry over a decade to embrace the selling of DRM-free music. It'll probably take twice as long for tv/movie industry to even consider selling DRM-free video, let alone minimally-compressed "bit-perfect" DRM-free video.

I would settle for a digital copy (from the vendor(s) of MY choice) of any BD I purchase. Essentially something like Amazon's Autorip... for BD purchases. No extra retail packaging or additional discs; which we all know artificially increases the retail price. Buy the disc, and the digital copy is unlocked into your library automatically. How simple is that? I have a harder time understanding why the studio don't do that.

It does me no good to have a companion digital copy of a BD if it is tied to a particular service or device. I want to play the movies I legally purchased on the device(s) of my choice without having to be on the internet, even for authentication purposes.

They tried that scam, it was called DiVX and it deservedly died a horrible death. Now they're trying it again with Ultraviolet.
post #164 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post

We are unfortunately living in a "Fast Food" society... We want it, we want it quick, we want it easy, we want it cheap and we want it NOW! Things use to be built to last. They use to be repaired, not replaced. Since "Planned Obsolescence" entered the equation, quality has steadily declined in almost every category of consumer goods (and services too!). It is no surprise that the younger generation(s) finds nothing wrong with mediocre products and quality.

I will abandon my physical media only when something that delivers equil or superior content is available... And available at no or little difference in cost I might add!

Agreed.

There are very few things that you can own anymore that is somethign that is really built to last.

Off the top of my head I can only think of Nice Mechanical watches(Rolex, Tag, and up), Nice cookware(Al-Clad, Mauviel[copper]), good audio equipment...

Buy a good amplifier you can always get it repaired

Buy a good TV, well, it will be out of date in a couple years and will be just about as expensive to repair it to just buy a new one...

my 2 year old disply just needed a repair and it cost 3/4 as much as buying a brand new one...only reason I didnt go ahead and get a new one is I didnt have the money...

Edit: I would rather spend more money and have something for a lifetime than to constantly buy cheaper things....sometimes it costs less to buy the best as my wife puts it....which is why she has some Mauviel cookware
post #165 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It does me no good to have a companion digital copy of a BD if it is tied to a particular service or device. I want to play the movies I legally purchased on the device(s) of my choice without having to be on the internet, even for authentication purposes.

They tried that scam, it was called DiVX and it deservedly died a horrible death. Now they're trying it again with Ultraviolet.

I agree with you, I dont like using the ultraviolet and all those services for the digital copies. They are very limiting and you have to watch the film on their software. It shouldnt be illegal to copy a movie, it should be illegal for distributing a copied movie
post #166 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

I agree with you, I dont like using the ultraviolet and all those services for the digital copies. They are very limiting and you have to watch the film on their software. It shouldnt be illegal to copy a movie, it should be illegal for distributing a copied movie

It's not illegal to copy it for your own use. What's illegal is breaking the encryption on the disc so you CAN copy it.
post #167 of 920
Well if your copying the disc your breaking the code, so evidently it is illegal to copy it. As I read that law if your copying movies with the Hollywood code on them your breaking the law period. I'm pretty sure if we keep talking about this we are going to be asked to stop, so I'm done biggrin.gif
post #168 of 920
I can see Google Fiber or something similar "eventually" giving us the possibility of 4K streaming with high def audio, but not for a while.
post #169 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Sadly? HUH? Digital 4K projection is light years ahead of old scratched film that never quite works right.



Film that never works right? What movie theatre have you been going too? Fact is very few movie theaters are using digital 4K projectors. I believe the Regal IMAX by me is using it, but was there some huge picture quality difference? Not that I saw. It's all part of their plan for us to eventually never own physical media. Everything they I've seen/heard digitally is inferior to my MSFL, SACD, DVD-A and blu-ray's. they are getting closer but their not there yet.

All the ones around here use Christie Digital Projectors. I don't actually know what resolution they are, but they look LIGHT YEARS ahead of film. Film always has scratches on it, and it's kind of dark and flickers a lot more than Christie Digital Projectors. Not that I go to the movies very often, as I hate movie theaters.

For movie servers, I rarely buy Blu-Ray discs in the first place, I try to avoid it whenever possible, as I'd rather not have physical things, and it's cheaper to rent in 99% of the cases, HOWEVER, even if you do have a collection of Blu-Ray discs, I still don't see an ROI from 20 minutes of ripping for every disc, and then the effort put into making the system in the first place. I'd rather spend it on a nice rack to store them.

FYI, Comcast is not enforcing the cap for now. I'm at 884GB for the month of April so far, which is well over triple my previous record. I've been running a program that will effectively consume all the bandwidth you give it. smile.gif I'm sustaining ~1.2MBps (megabytes) symmetrical about 20 hours a day through a VPN connection.

EDIT: Fix quotes
post #170 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

All the ones around here use Christie Digital Projectors. I don't actually know what resolution they are, but they look LIGHT YEARS ahead of film. Film always has scratches on it, and it's kind of dark and flickers a lot more than Christie Digital Projectors. Not that I go to the movies very often, as I hate movie theaters.

For movie servers, I rarely buy Blu-Ray discs in the first place, I try to avoid it whenever possible, as I'd rather not have physical things, and it's cheaper to rent in 99% of the cases, HOWEVER, even if you do have a collection of Blu-Ray discs, I still don't see an ROI from 20 minutes of ripping for every disc, and then the effort put into making the system in the first place. I'd rather spend it on a nice rack to store them.

FYI, Comcast is not enforcing the cap for now. I'm at 884GB for the month of April so far, which is well over triple my previous record. I've been running a program that will effectively consume all the bandwidth you give it. smile.gif I'm sustaining ~1.2MBps (megabytes) symmetrical about 20 hours a day through a VPN connection.

EDIT: Fix quotes



I guess I'll have to give digital it's due. I'm Comcast also so that's a good thing to know. With the start of 4K streaming to happen soon they have/had to do something. Right now I'm paying for 20 Mbps and getting around 22. I'll see where this is all going in the next year or so but they already knocked $60 a month off my triple play bill just for asking.
post #171 of 920
Comcast's cap is lifted temporarily. They're testing certain markets for their 300 GB limit. Wow! How helpful... a whole 50 GB more! rolleyes.gif
post #172 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Comcast's cap is lifted temporarily. They're testing certain markets for their 300 GB limit. Wow! How helpful... a whole 50 GB more! rolleyes.gif



Hi, I don't even know what my limit is. But I noticed they are offering 300 Mbps service for my area and it's only $300/month eek.gif
post #173 of 920
That said are we getting better gear to put up with crap recordings? I know I won't.

There will be war between hi-fi manufacturers and the media industry. If all we can get is lo-res downloads, why bother with hi-res gear?


There will always be a use for CD's:cool:

00258e49cb7ec1f869aaa52309f4c222-women-in-stock-photos-who-are-inscrutably-naked.jpg 27k .jpg file
post #174 of 920
Some recent CD's that I have purchased sounded really bad. So what I'm wondering is this intentional? Possibly to lead us to believe downloads are equal or better? Because I can tell you I have some CD's from over ten years ago that put some newer ones to shame?
post #175 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Comcast's cap is lifted temporarily. They're testing certain markets for their 300 GB limit. Wow! How helpful... a whole 50 GB more! rolleyes.gif

We'll see. I went on a downloading run now just in case. I'm hoping they'll just get rid of the cap entirely, at least for those of us paying $10/mo more for Blast!
post #176 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Some recent CD's that I have purchased sounded really bad. So what I'm wondering is this intentional? Possibly to lead us to believe downloads are equal or better? Because I can tell you I have some CD's from over ten years ago that put some newer ones to shame?

This is the part of the debate where I start a totally unsubstantiated rumor -bad sound is the side effect of all the mastering software that's out there, which is poorly understood by most producers and generally doesn't sound as good as hardware compression and mastering. I would stay away from grand conspiracy theories and point a finger at incompetence, or over-confidence... whichever comes first.

That's not meant as a blanket dismissal of software editing tools. I use software for my music, but I also see how easy it would be to abuse my tools, and if I could afford it, I'd buy hardware compressors and limiters instead. Alas, I have neither the time nor the money to take that route but again, I blame the producers, not the tools—and I reject and theory that it's being done on purpose.
post #177 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

This is the part of the debate where I start a totally unsubstantiated rumor -bad sound is the side effect of all the mastering software that's out there, which is poorly understood by most producers and generally doesn't sound as good as hardware compression and mastering. I would stay away from grand conspiracy theories and point a finger at incompetence, or over-confidence... whichever comes first.

That's not meant as a blanket dismissal of software editing tools. I use software for my music, but I also see how easy it would be to abuse my tools, and if I could afford it, I'd buy hardware compressors and limiters instead. Alas, I have neither the time nor the money to take that route but again, I blame the producers, not the tools—and I reject and theory that it's being done on purpose.



I would have never thought it was incompetence or over confidence. I assumed that the people in charge of mastering knew what they are doing. The hard part is swallowing that we are getting more revealing gear and the media is getting worse. At least as far as music goes. Which leads me to ask why is the audio on movie discs getting better? Particularly on BD's, although I have some DVD's that don't sound bad either. Are they more competent?
post #178 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I would have never thought it was incompetence or over confidence. I assumed that the people in charge of mastering knew what they are doing. The hard part is swallowing that we are getting more revealing gear and the media is getting worse. At least as far as music goes. Which leads me to ask why is the audio on movie discs getting better? Particularly on BD's, although I have some DVD's that don't sound bad either. Are they more competent?

In a nutshell, there are relatively strict standards for movie sountracks. When an album is made, literally anything could be happening. You don't know what drugs, sleep deprivation, or general insanity you are likely to encounter. The only certainty, it's the music industry so anything goes, even with the technicians. In Hollywood, the sound guys are going to be all-pro, most of the time. That said, there certainly are many great producers, many great studios out there. Well produced music sounds better than ever on CD.
post #179 of 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

In a nutshell, there are relatively strict standards for movie sountracks. When an album is made, literally anything could be happening. You don't know what drugs, sleep deprivation, or general insanity you are likely to encounter. The only certainty, it's the music industry so anything goes, even with the technicians. In Hollywood, the sound guys are going to be all-pro, most of the time. That said, there certainly are many great producers, many great studios out there. Well produced music sounds better than ever on CD.



That explains a lot Mark.
post #180 of 920
I think Physical media will be here for a bit longer. Like it or not DVD plays still outrank blu ray in homes, also the new formats coming the 4k formats will have to launch first on a
physical disk because the infrastructure for streaming such hi res video is not there yet for many people. For myself my disk buying for movies has definitely slowed, and when I do buy a new blu ray or
DVD I usually end up ripping it to my server and storing the disk.
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