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Shermer Theater (Boxes are Everywhere...Theater in Thinking Step) - Page 2

post #31 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post

how on earth did people ever pull projects like this off before internet communities like this?!?

They never found out they wanted one. wink.gif
post #32 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

there is a real world accounting of the funds spent in the Bacon Race build thread

big, does it help to have a small blank space between the concrete wall and the wood frame for sound containment issues? I'm trying to figure out how to get maximum sound isolation without building another wall. Also if you did do two walls, technically you don't need to mud, tape and paint the wall you don't see right? Isn't that where the bulk of the labor is spent? on mudding and taping?

edit also in really simple terms how do you double drywall a room? is it staggered or perpendicular - somehow you have to make sure the screws from the two layers don't line up, right?

Edit 2 in reading the sound proofing website it looks like you use green glue to affix two layers of drywall together.
Edited by JRock3x8 - 4/12/13 at 5:56am
post #33 of 422
You want a space between your framing and the concrete for several reasons. Two reasons are the transfer of sound/vibration from the room to the surrounding concrete which will travel upstairs and also you don't want untreated wood against concrete for moisture reasons. Leave a 1" gap between your new walls and the concrete. Not sure what you mean by building two walls?

To install double drywall you install one layer on the ceiling and then one layer on the walls. Then you install your second layer on the ceiling (stagger the seams by starting in a different corner/end of the room) with green glue between layers and then install the second layer on the walls with green glue between layers. Stagger the seams on the walls as well by starting in a different corner and top/bottom than you did for the first layer.

Soundproofing will push your budget higher. If you decide you want to go that route than you need to be all in or you might as well just skip it entirely. You would hate to spend money on extra drywall and green glue and then not decouple the drywall/walls from the framing or use acoustic sealant on every crack in the room or get seals and a heavy door for your entrance. There is a lot that goes into trying to keep the sound contained and keeping the noise floor in the room low. You just need to decide how important it is to you and whether or not you want to spend the money.

And if you decide to go all out and soundproof the room, I would suggest going with a layer of 5/8" OSB as your first layer for the walls and ceiling and then put 5/8" drywall over it. This allows you to attach drywall or anything else for that matter to the walls or ceiling without having to hit a stud (even though you want to try and hit them if you can). It is a little more work up front but it pays for itself later in the project when you are doing the finishing details.
post #34 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

You want....

thanks for the detailed response - I don't know that we are looking for the loudest theater in the world but I also don't want the neighbors calling the police every time the Hulk shows up on screen for the Avengers. I also would like to be able to watch movies with the kids in bed 2 floors up but again I can't really seeing us pumping up the volume that much as my wife is sort of averse to really loud movies.

I feel like the 1" space, the green glue and the double drywall should get us enough of the way there.

Thanks for the feedback.

This is the article I was referring to earlier : link
post #35 of 422
Quote:
I feel like the 1" space, the green glue and the double drywall should get us enough of the way there.

And insulation. Don't forget insulation.
post #36 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

And insulation. Don't forget insulation.

What r rating is best practice?
post #37 of 422
R13 for the walls and R19 for the ceiling seems to be acceptable.
post #38 of 422
R13 in the walls and R19 in the ceiling IIRC.

EDIT: Oh, and you want to use fiberglass insulation. Just the cheap stuff here. No spray foam or anything like that.
post #39 of 422
Yes, what they said.
post #40 of 422
Thread Starter 
Okay so dumb question the subwoofer sits on a concrete floor doesn't the vibrations from the concrete floor go elsewhere in the house?
post #41 of 422
People here often build a sandfilled stage to handle those vibrations. Or you use properly tuned soft feet.
post #42 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post

Edit 2 in reading the sound proofing website it looks like you use green glue to affix two layers of drywall together.
One thing you need to understand. Green Glue is not glue (although it is sticky as heck). It is a sound dampening agent the lives between the 2 layers of DW. You would still affix the 2nd layer with DW screws (longer ones that will go through both layers and into the stud or hat channel if you are decoupling). Using GG only would be a very bad idea, and a very expensive cleanup and re-do job when the 2nd layer falls off tongue.gif
post #43 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

One thing you need to understand. Green Glue is not glue (although it is sticky as heck). It is a sound dampening agent the lives between the 2 layers of DW. You would still affix the 2nd layer with DW screws (longer ones that will go through both layers and into the stud or hat channel if you are decoupling). Using GG only would be a very bad idea, and a very expensive cleanup and re-do job when the 2nd layer falls off tongue.gif

thanks
post #44 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

People here often build a sandfilled stage to handle those vibrations. Or you use properly tuned soft feet.

So if I'm not planning on building a stage, what are my best practice options to keep the subwoofer noise inside the room? I'm not planning on watching a lot of earthquake documentaries so I don't think this will be a huge issue but again, when the Death Star blows up I want my kids to stay sleeping.

Also are there ways to measure what is the "correct" lighting / sound levels for a room before / during / after a movie or is all that stuff just personal taste? I would think THX would have some guidelines on that.
post #45 of 422
Well, I can't tell you where in your part you can buy weight-matched soft feet, but that would by my no.1 suggestion. You want something with as low resonance frequency as possible. Dont know if rubber things for putting under washingmashines might do the trick.

BUT that only helps with mechanically transferred noice, the subs will make other things vibrate as well. But you seem to have modest demands, so the problem is substantially less than from a bigger bass-rig.
post #46 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Well, I can't tell you where in your part you can buy weight-matched soft feet, but that would by my no.1 suggestion. You want something with as low resonance frequency as possible. Dont know if rubber things for putting under washingmashines might do the trick.

BUT that only helps with mechanically transferred noice, the subs will make other things vibrate as well. But you seem to have modest demands, so the problem is substantially less than from a bigger bass-rig.

Seems like something I will have to figure out wheat the time comes.

Just finished reading the Great Dane theater thread. The one thing that makes me really nervous is I have not done a lot of woodwork or actually any kind of construction work ever and it seems like to keep costs down that will probably be a necessity.

I don't have a problem doing non-electrical wiring/ cabling but some of this stuff...man, these guys are really talented or patient or... I don't know. I find myself disliking most of the projects I work on because I tend to be a perfectionist.
post #47 of 422
Are you going to spend time in the room a lot with lights on? Or is the focus on what picture and sound will be while watching movies? Or is the focus to impress your friends with 'it looks like a real cinema!' ?
post #48 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Are you going to spend time in the room a lot with lights on? Or is the focus on what picture and sound will be while watching movies? Or is the focus to impress your friends with 'it looks like a real cinema!' ?

The express purpose of the room is for me and my family and perhaps my kids friends to have a place to watch movies and maybe play games. From that perspective, I think you might say that mistakes will be near invisible with the lights off.

Problem is that now that I've seen all these incredibly beautiful theaters ill,be disappointed with something less.

I expect that mine will get there over time. I just need to get over myself until it does. smile.gif

Ps typing on an iPad is not great.
post #49 of 422
They sure are beautiful, but the more non-black they are, the less the room will disappear while watching, so they compromise there. Some pretty ones also compromise a lot on sound quality, so there are som tough choices to be made up front.

I know,I'm on one too!
post #50 of 422
Thread Starter 
I've been thinking a lot about a dark dark red / maroon for floors and walls and then dark brown for furniture combination. I absolutely love the art house cinema with the white chairs but my kids would just spills stuff on them and drive me bat poop crazy.

All of this is conjecture. I don't even own a house yet that can support all this. But we're getting closer on that front. Maybe this year.
post #51 of 422
I think that's about the best colors to go to when skipping black. Sounds like a plan. My wife likes red, so the carpet (at least back part) will be red. Chairs could have been too, but the model did not come in it.
post #52 of 422
Thread Starter 
Video for my own reference on whisper clip / drywall installation. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Vq-t-YTSn_8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVq-t-YTSn_8

Edit green glue video.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=related&v=-f4Y3tVOYKI

Edit quiet putty video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=J8U_BvEq5CI

Homemade acoustical panels

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=U8C4mcleE5U&feature=related

Batt insulation for acoustical panels

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roxul-Safe-n-Sound-Unfaced-47-in-x-1-ft-3-1-4-in-Batt-Insulation-RXSS31525/202531875#.UWnLTvC9KSN

Green glue bucket at amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Glue-Noiseproofing-Compound-Gallon/dp/B006FLNS8O/ref=pd_cp_hi_3

Whisper clips $50 for 10 on eBay

Hat channel $7 for 10 feet at sound away.com

$60 for rope lightin

$300 screen paint.

http://www.gooscreen.com/store/projector-screen-paint-digital-grey,Category.asp

$1100 Carada screen in the 140" neighborhood

http://www.carada.com/DLP-Screen-Criterion-Projection-Screens-1-78.aspx

Stolen from newbie needs advice thread


Originally Posted by JRock3x8

Ok so normally if you were to install soffits you would screw or nail them to existing studs but if you're using whisper clips and furring strips what are you securing the soffits to?

The hat channel.

If the answer is furring strips how do you know where they are?

Measure in advance/Use a metal stud finder. It's advised to leave a row of clips and channel dedicated for the soffits.

Also since the soffits sit entirely within the sound proof box that is your theater there is no need to pay any special attention to noise control with those, correct?

Fill with insulation. You don't want hollow spaces in the sound proof "shell."
Edited by JRock3x8 - 4/14/13 at 6:13am
post #53 of 422
Thread Starter 
]Ok going to do some reading but would appreciate any pointers on soffit construction logic.

Seems like soffits are the nice workaround to perforating your nice sound proof box with lots of holes for ventilation, lighting and speakers.

But then that's a lot of crap that's running through the soffits. A soffit big enough to handle ventilation and recessed lighting alone would seem problematic at best. What are some best practices here?

Edit ventilation thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1370384/basement-home-theater-ventilation/30

Did not finding anything explicit addressing my question about ventilation and recessed lighting in the same soffit construction.

Edit 2 I watched Jonathan Danforth's video again. I didn't realize how shallow his soffits were. Seems if you just made the soffits deeper, ventilation and lighting would be fine. Still with only 7'9" of vertical space plus risers ill need to be careful not to make the room ridiculous.

Edit 3 : in looking at more finished theaters it seems like vertical soffits or columns are a great way to run wire without puncturing the sound proof box. Seems like that works for electrical as well as speaker wire. That way every one can have an outlet to charge their iPods. smile.gif
Edited by JRock3x8 - 4/14/13 at 6:32am
post #54 of 422
Thread Starter 
Thi s probably goes without saying but I've got the fever real bad after this weekend. Probably a good thing that I don't own a house that can support any of this yet. wink.gif
post #55 of 422
Thread Starter 
Do u need 5/8 drywall inside the soundbox or can you go with something cheaper? For soffits and columns
post #56 of 422
Depends on what you intend to do with the soffits. If you are just running wire and lights, then you want the lightest stuff that will do the job since, in most cases, you will be suspending all of this off of clips and channels holding the soundproofed shell. However, if you are running ductwork up there, you many want to use DD+GG again to help isolate the ductwork from sound in the room, and help prevent sound transmission through the ducts and out of the room. If you are going to do that, then you need to layout your clips and channel carefully to make sure they will support the added weight.
post #57 of 422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

If you are going to [double drywall], then you need to layout your clips and channel carefully to make sure they will support the added weight.

How do I do that? 1 dedicated hat track for the soffits? 2? Wall and Ceiling? 2 each? How does that work?

Thanks.
post #58 of 422
Thread Starter 
I think I understand fairly comprehensively how to build the sound proof outer box (2x4s, insulation, whisper clips, hat channel, 5/8 drywall, green glue, 5/8 drywall) - the one piece I am missing is how do I get air and wires in and out of the sound proof box - clearly you have to break the box somewhere (in addition to the door).
post #59 of 422
Conduit. Seal around the conduit with acoustic caulking. You can also just drill a small hole here and there to run wires through but they need to be caulked.
post #60 of 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post

How do I do that? 1 dedicated hat track for the soffits? 2? Wall and Ceiling? 2 each? How does that work?

Thanks.

Talk to Ted and/or John at the SoundProofing Company. If you are going to add a LOT of weight, you will need to calculate the weight of the ceiling and determine how many extra clips are necessary to support it. For a relatively light soffit, it's just a matter of adding an extra clip at every joist where the soffit is. Again, you'll need to talk to Ted and John once you get a good idea of what you intend to run in there and how you intend to build it.
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