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Sony Announces Pricing for 55" and 65" 4K UHDTV Sets, 4K Media Server - Page 2

post #31 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Any news on when 4k 60p capable HDMI is coming out?

The HDMI 2.0 standard is schedule to be completed no later than the end of June and it they meet that schedule then the first chipsets, in production qunatities, supporting this new HDMI standard should be available to the UHD TV manufacturers during the first half of next year.



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post #32 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

From the marketing photos it looks like the 55/65" X900A might still be using gorilla glass. Can anyone confirm or deny this? From what I've gathered they're not using any gorilla glass in the lower-end 2013 lineup. All I can find on the smaller X900 spec page is "Sense of QUARTZ : Yes." Can anyone who's seen one in person share some insight? Not that I'll be buying one, but the monolith design has probably been my favorite TV design of all time and i'd be sad to see it disappear completely.

FWIW none of the marketing materials I have seen list Gorilla Glass in the specs for this model. They do however list it for the W900a series.
post #33 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Sony4k2_zps4e81ea65.jpg

When will Sony get it through their heads to make a display WITHOUT integrated speakers...or at least make the speakers detachable!!
post #34 of 127
Hi Everyone, I'm really interested in this display but was wondering if anybody would know what the quality of regular DVD's (on a DVD player) and Blu-ray discs from a BR player would look like. Or standard broadcast from cable. I think it will be a while before we get 4K discs, so I don't know if this would be worth buying now. Thanks.
post #35 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by montana girl View Post

Hi Everyone, I'm really interested in this display but was wondering if anybody would know what the quality of regular DVD's (on a DVD player) and Blu-ray discs from a BR player would look like. Or standard broadcast from cable. I think it will be a while before we get 4K discs, so I don't know if this would be worth buying now. Thanks.

I think while the price tags are encouraging and reasonable the problems that arise from content, screen size, etc. are still prevalent. Every piece of content you've mentioned will be upscaled within the FP. I don't doubt that these X900's will be solid TV's or that they'll look great displaying BD's and etc. I just have a hard time believing that these are worth every penny you pay, when what you're paying for is a sole specification which can only be taken advantage of in a limited number of scenarios. If you're going to spend the $699 for their 4K media server, and you're going to sit very, very close to your TV, and/or you have some other burning desire to own one of these, then I say go for it, otherwise I think waiting a few gens is the best option here.
post #36 of 127
How many movies will fit on this Sony download thing? I would assume the compression will be horrendous in order to jam as many onto a relatively small storage chip... and it'll be 8 bit only. And most of the content will actually be 4k upconverts. Except for something deriving from a 4k scanned 35mm or 65mm IP (for archival purposes), almost all modern films have only 2k workflows. And yet another blow for 4k.

And it's proprietary.

Hollywood is one of the poster children for greedy idiots.
post #37 of 127
It's coming and it looks like there is nothing we can do about it but adapt.
Edited by comfynumb - 4/8/13 at 6:14pm
post #38 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by montana girl View Post

Hi Everyone, I'm really interested in this display but was wondering if anybody would know what the quality of regular DVD's (on a DVD player) and Blu-ray discs from a BR player would look like. Or standard broadcast from cable. I think it will be a while before we get 4K discs, so I don't know if this would be worth buying now. Thanks.



I know they upscale everything to 4K but I'm wondering if it is as good as real 4K also. I think Mark could tell us. As for the discs, there might not be any, as far as I know it's all downloads so far.
post #39 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

It's coming and it looks like there is nothing we can do about but adapt.

The best thing to do with onerous DRM'd, studio controlled content... is not to feed the troll (like with DIVX and self destructing PPV HD discs). And maybe they''ll get the message that a consumer friendly, video/audio-phile type of physical medium must be included in the UHD game.
post #40 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

The best thing to do with onerous DRM'd, studio controlled content... is not to feed the troll (like with DIVX and self destructing PPV HD discs). And maybe they''ll get the message that a consumer friendly, video/audio-phile type of physical medium must be included in the UHD game.



It looks like they are hell bent on forcing streaming and downloads on us. I hope there ends up being a 4K media player but it doesn't look good.
post #41 of 127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I know they upscale everything to 4K but I'm wondering if it is as good as real 4K also. I think Mark could tell us. As for the discs, there might not be any, as far as I know it's all downloads so far.

Upscaling is basically a sham at these resolution levels. It has its purpose; it can reduce stair-stepping in diagonal lines - aka "the jaggies" - but it cannot create detail that did not exist to begin with. 1080p material will remain 1080p, no matter how high the resolution of the display you view it on. I don't see any jaggies when I watch a 1080p movie, so it's not a problem that needs fixing.
Edited by imagic - 4/8/13 at 8:03pm
post #42 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Upscaling is basically a sham at these resolution levels. It has its purpose; it can reduce stair-stepping in diagonal lines - aka "the jaggies" - but it cannot create detail that did not exist to begin with. 1080p material will remain 1080p, no matter how high the resolution of the display you view it on. I don't see any jaggies when I watch a 1080p movie, so it's not a problem that needs fixing.



That's good to know. What do you think the chances are of Sony and others making a 4K player using physical media?
post #43 of 127
I'm sorry to spoil the party guys, but edge lit sets for $5K and $7K? Compressed media unconverted to 4K? Not to mention that even with my Uverse internet, downloading these movies may take all week!

Not feeling it at all. I need physical media and if the TVs got to be LED, at least make it a back lit set. we are at least 3 years away from 4K even being a serious consideration. I know 4K looks much better than 1080p, but HD isn't bad.

The price, plus stuffing this data on a blu ray are what's needed here. I hope maybe another company gets the picture and makes more compelling arguments. Honestly, they need this to be plasma TV based also.
post #44 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMABLUHD View Post

I'm sorry to spoil the party guys, but edge lit sets for $5K and $7K? Compressed media unconverted to 4K? Not to mention that even with my Uverse internet, downloading these movies may take all week!

Not feeling it at all. I need physical media and if the TVs got to be LED, at least make it a back lit set. we are at least 3 years away from 4K even being a serious consideration. I know 4K looks much better than 1080p, but HD isn't bad.

The price, plus stuffing this data on a blu ray are what's needed here. I hope maybe another company gets the picture and makes more compelling arguments. Honestly, they need this to be plasma TV based also.

The fact that it is edge-lit is a little disconcerting to me as well. Unfortunately, the investment dollars required to make 4k plasma viable will probably never materialize. I hope they do, just not holding my breath.
post #45 of 127
I thought imax used dual 2k projectors for digital?
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Upscaling is basically a sham at these resolution levels. It has its purpose; it can reduce stair-stepping in diagonal lines - aka "the jaggies" - but it cannot create detail that did not exist to begin with. 1080p material will remain 1080p, no matter how high the resolution of the display you view it on. I don't see any jaggies when I watch a 1080p movie, so it's not a problem that needs fixing.

Regular movies that play in movie theaters are projected in 2K. IMAX digital is 4K. If you've ever seen a regular movie projected on an IMAX screen, it looks soft. At the same time, IMAX looks sharp compared to a regular movie, even when projected on a huge screen. That's the difference between real 2K and real 4K, between HDTV and UHDTV.
post #46 of 127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

I thought imax used dual 2k projectors for digital?

Dang, you are right. I feel silly; for some reason I really thought digital IMAX was 4K, when in reality it's the regular auditoriums that are getting upgraded to 4K projectors—even if the movies themselves are still only 2K.
Edited by imagic - 4/8/13 at 8:14pm
post #47 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill C. View Post


That's pretty typical Sony, I guess, to restrict the FMP-X1 media server to their own sets only. You'd think they'd want to go for higher possible adoption for their 4K download service, but noooooo...

That's kinda disappointing and odd, there seems to be such a small crowd with the 4K displays that you'd think they'd wanna captured it or as much of it as possible. They want their own ecosystem huh? (for a $25K TV vs the can be had much lesser street price of the LG 84"). Too bad, I was really looking forward to it, but oh well...
post #48 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maison View Post

That's kinda disappointing and odd, there seems to be such a small crowd with the 4K displays that you'd think they'd wanna captured it or as much of it as possible. They want their own ecosystem huh? (for a $25K TV vs the can be had much lesser street price of the LG 84"). Too bad, I was really looking forward to it, but oh well...

I think it makes sense, it will give Sony a competitive advantage over other TV manufacturers. Sony has the content (slim as the selection is), which LG or Toshiba or Samsung can't say. Sony fell off as people moved from CRT and RPTV into flat panels, which is why they're not doing too well now....so it seems logical to me that they're going so hard on 4K/UHD to take back the crown for 4K and into the future 4K OLED market. They don't want you to buy another brand's UHD TV, that's the point. They're offering the 4K server as a point of differentiation against other 4K set-makers.
post #49 of 127
Content issues... they were around when HDTV arrived on the scene (and continue today with less than 1080p transmitted by many/most cable providers) and were around with the advent of 3D capable sets. I think the content will eventually come, but not at a significant rate since the content will have to be downloaded since there is no physical media that can handle the massive volume of data that true 4K will require.

3D capabilities... I love it when it's done correctly (think J. Cameron - Avatar & Titanic, M. Scorsese - Hugo, Ang Lee - Life of Pi) and these sets will undoubtedly raise the bar in terms of the quality of that experience in your home. How much more "immersive" an experience it will be is too soon to tell... from the larger screen size to more pixels displayed, it should be better, but the question becomes "how much better?... for how much more cash?!"

I (mistakingly) thought that "high end" LED sets would all be of the Full Array variety, not the edge lit with local dimming type.

I am looking forward to the time when we have some actual honest reviews of these displays, and what the actual hands on testing shows in regards to perceptable differences the "typical" viewer would perceive in the typical home set up (ie. viewing distance). While I applaud any and all efforts manufacturers make to get the maximum resolution (both audio & video) possible, I'm also mindful (sceptical even in some circumstances!) of the "diminishing return" for such an investment.
Edited by AVTrauma - 4/9/13 at 5:02am
post #50 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I think it makes sense, it will give Sony a competitive advantage over other TV manufacturers. Sony has the content (slim as the selection is), which LG or Toshiba or Samsung can't say. Sony fell off as people moved from CRT and RPTV into flat panels, which is why they're not doing too well now....so it seems logical to me that they're going so hard on 4K/UHD to take back the crown for 4K and into the future 4K OLED market. They don't want you to buy another brand's UHD TV, that's the point. They're offering the 4K server as a point of differentiation against other 4K set-makers.



Agreed and if they are to get their crown back they need to make the new 4K displays affordable. They are too big of a company and labor and materials and marketing is SO expensive, that they will ha e to get this into as many hands as possible. Prices will fall in a couple years but if this is ever to take off Internet companies will have to get on board. I know my 22 Mbps IS will fall flat on it's face trying to download 4K content. Who's willing to wait all day to download a movie, while others in your household want to do their thing online too. But there's no way I'm paying what they want right now for higher speeds.
post #51 of 127
I personally LOVE the new look. I have XBR-929 currently, but this new XBR looks 10000 times better to me
post #52 of 127
And let's not forget that many ISPs throttle bandwidth to so-called poweruser households, making things even slower. To me, physical media and the ability to convert it yourself to mobile formats or upload to the cloud (personal or paid service) is where it is at. Although that ability to even back up physical media is now apparently illegal *sigh*....
post #53 of 127
So, the answer to the questions of cost and mode of consumer delivery of 4K is finally here. We all knew that the unit that accompanied Sonys first two 4k display units (Projector and Television) was a loaner, but now we have an actual product for sale. I'm quite excited.
post #54 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

And let's not forget that many ISPs throttle bandwidth to so-called poweruser households, making things even slower. To me, physical media and the ability to convert it yourself to mobile formats or upload to the cloud (personal or paid service) is where it is at. Although that ability to even back up physical media is now apparently illegal *sigh*....

If it's a Blu Ray, it's not illegal to back it up, as long as you don't play the original and backup copies simultaneously. DVDs are a different story though.
post #55 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

And let's not forget that many ISPs throttle bandwidth to so-called poweruser households, making things even slower. To me, physical media and the ability to convert it yourself to mobile formats or upload to the cloud (personal or paid service) is where it is at. Although that ability to even back up physical media is now apparently illegal *sigh*....



Hi, your the first AVS guy I've heard admit he likes his shiny discs better biggrin.gif I've been copying discs for years for my personal use, there are certain discs like my Pink Floyd Blu Rays that I don't want to ruin. I've always heard it was ok for personal use, did something change?
Edited by comfynumb - 4/9/13 at 11:36am
post #56 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

If it's a Blu Ray, it's not illegal to back it up, as long as you don't play the original and backup copies simultaneously. DVDs are a different story though.



I don't get it. What would be the difference if it was a DVD or blu ray, they both have the Hollywood code on them?
post #57 of 127
The price is pretty good for 1st gen consumer level UHD. I don't see how AppleTV (rumored to be UHD) is going to work with these prices though. Apple will add its markup, but the prices for UHD is already expensive. I don't see them selling that many.

I did buy my 1080p tv before 1080p input existed.
post #58 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I know they upscale everything to 4K but I'm wondering if it is as good as real 4K also. I think Mark could tell us. As for the discs, there might not be any, as far as I know it's all downloads so far.

I saw the 84" Sony 4K TV in person with the native 4K content and standard HD content upscaled to 4K. You can turn off the upscaling if you wish, but I have to say the difference between native 1080p and upscaled 1080p to 4K was dramatic. Certainly not as crystal clear as native 4K content, but definitely a feature that I would ALWAYS have on if I owned that TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

If it's a Blu Ray, it's not illegal to back it up, as long as you don't play the original and backup copies simultaneously. DVDs are a different story though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, your the first AVS guy I've heard admit he likes his shiny discs better biggrin.gif I've been copying discs for years for my personal use, there are certain discs like my Pink Floyd Blu Rays that I don't want to ruin. I've always heard it was ok for personal use, did something change?

This post on this thread does a good job of explaining the ruling last October: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436730/new-ruling-confirms-copying-dvds-is-illegal#post_22545225 According to the ruling, ANY copy is illegal, even if you are archiving only and not playing the material in two different places at once.
post #59 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I saw the 84" Sony 4K TV in person with the native 4K content and standard HD content upscaled to 4K. You can turn off the upscaling if you wish, but I have to say the difference between native 1080p and upscaled 1080p to 4K was dramatic. Certainly not as crystal clear as native 4K content, but definitely a feature that I would ALWAYS have on if I owned that TV.

This post on this thread does a good job of explaining the ruling last October: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436730/new-ruling-confirms-copying-dvds-is-illegal#post_22545225 According to the ruling, ANY copy is illegal, even if you are archiving only and not playing the material in two different places at once.



Thanks for the link. You know what's funny? If they are going all streaming and downloads why are they worried about copies for personal use? Or is they part of the sooner or later we won't own any music/movies? If they want to stop it I suggest if they change the Hollywood code. Plus their movies are illegally for sale sometimes even before they come out. Not that I buy them most are terrible quality but still.



I have to see the new 4k panel's then, I didn't think the upscaling would be that good. I just bought the new Marantz pre/pro that does 4K upscaling. I never looked into to it, what exactly does it do?
post #60 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Thanks for the link. You know what's funny? If they are going all streaming and downloads why are they worried about copies for personal use? Or is they part of the sooner or later we won't own any music/movies? If they want to stop it I suggest if they change the Hollywood code. Plus their movies are illegally for sale sometimes even before they come out. Not that I buy them most are terrible quality but still.

I have to see the new 4k panel's then, I didn't think the upscaling would be that good. I just bought the new Marantz pre/pro that does 4K upscaling. I never looked into to it, what exactly does it do?

I would personally never "rip and return" as with a rented Red Box Bluray movie, for example...but I cannot fathom not being able to play my media that I bought and paid for to any display I choose whether it be mobile, laptop, desktop, TV or projector. Do they actually think I intend to purchase several versions of the same content to play on different players? What if I went camping for the weekend in the middle of nowhere that doesn't have internet service, what do I do then? What if I bought a permanent license to a movie but couldn't use it when and where I wanted to because of access issues (i.e. availability, time to download, etc.). Piracy aside, It just doesn't make sense to not allow people to transcode the material, just like any other modification someone can make to any product. Perhaps individual dissent is the greatest form of patriotism for something so overtly wrong IMHO.

What does upscaling do? It is basic pixel interpolation where it spreads out the 1080p content in three dimensions and looks at several frames before and several frames after the current frame to interpolate what color/intensity pixel should go where. If you have a 4K TV which will absolutely have the 4K upscaling feature built into it, you wouldn't need the chip in the Marantz to do the same job....unless the Marantz's chip does it better than the chip in the TV.
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