or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Official ST60 input lag thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 36

post #1051 of 1308
What firmware update....
what's the latest now ?
post #1052 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRob View Post

My had to power cycle the set three times last night while watching "Psych" on Netflix. I wish I could figure out what triggers it, since I watched some Blu-ray discs for several hours the night before without issue. Eventually I turned on Game Mode to try to prevent the worst of it. I prefer not to do that, because I like the "Weak" motion smoothing setting. The problem does seem to be worse on the Apple TV, though, which I have hooked up to HDMI 1. Not sure if it's the device or the input at this point.

I'll try to get a video of it at some point.


Have you ever assumed there might be some Netflix app problems?
post #1053 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb1213 View Post

What firmware update....
what's the latest now ?

2.712
post #1054 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by helcik View Post

Have you ever assumed there might be some Netflix app problems?

I certainly have. But I wasn't just using Netflix on the Apple TV. I also watched content stored on my network. Plus, if it were an app problem, it wouldn't go away when the TV was power-cycled. (I don't use the internal Netflix app at all.)
post #1055 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroDiiviide View Post

2.712

Where can you read info about the updates?
post #1056 of 1308
I reported previously about seeing a slight lipsync audio/video delay on my st60. Was hooked up by hdmi directly from verizon fios cable to television.

I popped in my disney wow blu-ray disk and ran the A/V sync test for the first time and to my eyes it appeared to be beeping between the -125 and -83.3 milliseconds on the test pattern (Audio is early)

For anyone familiar with this test on disney wow what would be the best way to sync this? I dont see any settings on the tv for this but I got a Yamaha receiver yesterday that I just connected to the tv this afternoon. Would my best bet be trying to use the receivers delay settings or some other solution through the television itself?

Also the audio delay test pattern is running on a blu-ray would the Milliseconds showing on the disk be about equal with the delay of the cable since that is where I do the majority of my viewing?

thanks
post #1057 of 1308
I would use the receiver's delay setting. All inputs should be close to the same delay, or at least close enough you won't notice it.

How I like to make sure audio is synced, when ripping media to my media server, is to play the video in VLC, slowed down, and look for a scene with a pronounced noise. Like something being dropped on the floor. VLC (and other media players probably) has an option to adjust sync with keyboard shortcuts, so you can increase the audio delay and replay the scene until it's accurate, then enter that value in the receiver.
post #1058 of 1308
thank you. I will give it a shot tonight going through the receiver. Doesnt this type of delay confirm that this set has some audio/video sync issues that people were debating in this thread previously? I would imagine someone a lot more tech savvy than myself would have already tried this out on the Disney Wow disk. Without the receiver (going straight through the tv speakers) what would be solution for this problem?
post #1059 of 1308
Others have said power cycling the TV will fix it temporarily? If that is the case, then it's a problem with the TV itself.

If it's constant, then you can only fix it at the source if there's an available option. Doubt the TV has a setting to alter the sync.
post #1060 of 1308
When you check the WoW disc, are you sending both audio and video to the receiver, then video out to TV?

It's very normal to need to set the audio delay on a receiver when video goes player -> receiver -> TV. I don't think it's quite that bad when the picture and audio go straight to the TV itself.
On my past projector and LCD TV, I had the receiver audio delay at about 40ms. With this TV I have it at about 70~90 depending on the source (cable box / PS3).

For TV/cable, you can have the TV audio and receiver/speaker audio play at the same time, and adjust the receiver audio delay so there's no echo. Unfortunately there seems to be an extra slight difference of 10~20ms between the TV's audio and what it should be. So I have a slight echo with this test but the lip sync seems a bit better on the receiver...


I think there are 2 kinds of audio sync issues on the ST60. One is the progressive one that happens occasionally, and it's very noticeable. Power-cycling the TV should fix it. I had this occur when I turned on my TV before the cable box. The other kind is very slight, sometimes noticeable if you look close, sometimes worse on some channels than others. But it's very slight, maybe 10~20ms range. You really have to concentrate and look for it to notice.
post #1061 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

When you check the WoW disc, are you sending both audio and video to the receiver, then video out to TV?

It's very normal to need to set the audio delay on a receiver when video goes player -> receiver -> TV. I don't think it's quite that bad when the picture and audio go straight to the TV itself.
On my past projector and LCD TV, I had the receiver audio delay at about 40ms. With this TV I have it at about 70~90 depending on the source (cable box / PS3).

For TV/cable, you can have the TV audio and receiver/speaker audio play at the same time, and adjust the receiver audio delay so there's no echo. Unfortunately there seems to be an extra slight difference of 10~20ms between the TV's audio and what it should be. So I have a slight echo with this test but the lip sync seems a bit better on the receiver...


I think there are 2 kinds of audio sync issues on the ST60. One is the progressive one that happens occasionally, and it's very noticeable. Power-cycling the TV should fix it. I had this occur when I turned on my TV before the cable box. The other kind is very slight, sometimes noticeable if you look close, sometimes worse on some channels than others. But it's very slight, maybe 10~20ms range. You really have to concentrate and look for it to notice.

The way I have it set up is through the ARC hdmi.

First time using this kind of setup and never had a receiver in the past so I used to use the tv speakers for audio. Took me a bit to get it working last night (had to try another HDMI cable which solved the issue)

setup is simple. It goes HDMI OUT on back of ARC capable receiver to HDMI2(arc hdmi) on side of ST60. That is the only cable going into the television besides the power cord. Than Blu-ray player goes into HDMI1 and cable box goes into HDMI2 on back of receiver. Would this cause more lag in your opinion?

Maybe I will try the disney wow test just using the TV speakers to see what happens out of curiosity
post #1062 of 1308
The receiver could be adding some slight delay in the chain. I'm not that familiar with ARC, though.

If you can play audio through both the receiver and TV at the same time, you can check and align the receiver delay with any video source (listen for the echo), and see if TV seems to be adding any additional audio delay beyond the receiver. If you can plug a device directly to the TV and compare audio delay, that might help.
post #1063 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

The receiver could be adding some slight delay in the chain. I'm not that familiar with ARC, though.

If you can play audio through both the receiver and TV at the same time, you can check and align the receiver delay with any video source (listen for the echo), and see if TV seems to be adding any additional audio delay beyond the receiver. If you can plug a device directly to the TV and compare audio delay, that might help.

I was having a hard time getting the audio to come through the external speakers....after reading a bunch on here I found out that you have to disable the internal Tv speakers though viera settings. So I dont think its possible to use the TV speakers and external at the same time.. Could be wrong on this one.
post #1064 of 1308
Hey I just wanted to take a second and post on this topic. I was literally 30 seconds away from cancelling my order for this TV. I mean who wants a bad gaming experience. Then I saw a great video, of Killzone 3 on the PS3.

This is realtime game play and shows the difference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI

That difference is barely noticed. I think most of the people that are really concerned about this are PC gamers, not console gamers, and are comparing this to a CRT Monitor not another TV.

I play shooters, but honestly on a console you will never notice a difference.

There are other youtube vidoes that make this difference seem much greater than it really it is, they do this by displaying the gameplay in 6x slow motion, this clearly shows that one is ahead of the other. I am sure the lag is not a problem we are talking about hundreths of a second here.

The truth is that the RF or Bluetooth lag from your controller is greater than the difference between the ST30 and ST60.

Don't let the paranoia scare you, I went down to BestBuy and had them slap in Black Ops 2, I played single player so there was not internet lag, and I could not tell ANY difference from the Sony LED we had upstairs or my older Panasonic Plasma from 2011. I tried the game on the Samsung Plasma and a Samsung LED in the store after trying the ST60 and noticed no difference in any of them as far as lag. Keep in mind that when you blink it take 300ms, and this difference is around 30ms different than other TV's. That means is 10x faster than a blink, and most of us never notice when we blink at all.

I think the guys that say they can tell a difference are used to mouse driven PC gaming on a CRT monitor. Consoles will never notice a difference. People that say they can tell a difference are just pretending to me more elite and "hardcore" than the rest of us. I say bring it on. I will gladly smoke you in a black ops death match with my new "laggy" TV any day of the week.

Don't let the hype scare you off. The lag is not an issue.
Edited by juanvaldez - 9/6/13 at 4:58pm
post #1065 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornfreak View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

The receiver could be adding some slight delay in the chain. I'm not that familiar with ARC, though.

If you can play audio through both the receiver and TV at the same time, you can check and align the receiver delay with any video source (listen for the echo), and see if TV seems to be adding any additional audio delay beyond the receiver. If you can plug a device directly to the TV and compare audio delay, that might help.

I was having a hard time getting the audio to come through the external speakers....after reading a bunch on here I found out that you have to disable the internal Tv speakers though viera settings. So I dont think its possible to use the TV speakers and external at the same time.. Could be wrong on this one.

I think that's if you are using the optical audio output from the TV. Is that correct?
post #1066 of 1308
so what's the typical input lag for this set? and what's the best way to minimize it?
post #1067 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryHelm View Post

Where can you read info about the updates?

Menu
network
software update
post #1068 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

so what's the typical input lag for this set? and what's the best way to minimize it?

don't even worry about it. you'll cause unnecessary worry
post #1069 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

so what's the typical input lag for this set? and what's the best way to minimize it?

70ms. Game mode on, Pixel Direct off.
post #1070 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

so what's the typical input lag for this set? and what's the best way to minimize it?

don't worry about it too much i'm a hardcore gamer and i'm telling you, you won't notice the lag. in fact they say game mode drops 10ms off the lag which is about 1 frame... I don't even bother turning game mode on.
post #1071 of 1308
I've previously owned the st30 ut50 and st60. The picture quality on this one is the best. However there are too many flaws. More ghosting in 3d then both of the older tvs. And worst of all the input lag is ridiculous! I tried to give it the benefit of the doubt but it's horrible a straight up noticeable lag from when you do something to when it displays it on the TV. PANASONIC FIX THIS OR I AM NEVER BUYING ANY OF YOUR PRODUCTS AGAIN. I WILLING BE TAKING THIS BACKFLIP AND I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE ELSE TO DO SO UNTIL PANASONIC DOES SOMETHING TO FIX THIS HORRIBLE INPUT LAG. frown.gif ITS A SHAME TOO... ITS A GREAT LOOKING TV WHEN IT WORKS.
post #1072 of 1308
Also if you have to remove the "smart" features or at least give the option to do so... THEN DO IT. I have not and will not use pointless little gizmos. What I want is a TV that works!
post #1073 of 1308
I am a proud owner of the st60. I don't play new games, but I am an avid retro gammer.

Compared to the s60 there was a bit of lag More of a "floating feeling", but it did not hinder gameplay. I played Sonic 2, Megaman 2, and several MAME games and the st60 held its own.

settings I used

game mode on, viera link off, adds off, 3d content message off
post #1074 of 1308
The St60 has been great so far. I haven't experienced any IR or ghosting. I haven't encountered any issues with 76ms input lag. it's not really noticeable at all. the picture on this set is amazing especially when playing games everything is extremely clear and vibrant... Buy this TV thats all I have to say, and if you're a gamer like me don't let some of these people scare you with the input lag because it won't be a factor, and you will love playing on the tv.
post #1075 of 1308
So forgive me for not being a techie, but I am curious...

If the input lag in comparison to the ST50 is being caused by more smarttv features without an increase in processor power, and as panasonic has said they are not planning to upgrade the firmware... why can't someone hack it? is that not possible?

i'd download it =)
post #1076 of 1308
ATTENTION EVERYONE! I just bought this TV and it is awesome! I read this thread prior when waiting to pick up my TV and it worried me sick! The only time you will notice any difference in lag is if you compare it to a CRT. I play NHL 14, GTA, BF3, COD BO2, Assasins creed on xbox without a problem. I click the right trigger and it almost instantly shoots.. It is not lagged like the youtube video I've seen with that kid shooting his gun with PS3 and then his character shoots a good half a second later. I game every day and have been for years and this TV is great. I put it on Photo mode, and game mode.. the other settings don't seem to change the lag factor at all. Even without the game mode on it wasn't nearly as laggy as the video I saw on youtube, or laggy at all for that matter. if you want to play point and click shooter games get a CRT, this TV is excellent for any xbox games i've played so far. Good luck.
post #1077 of 1308
what's the general consensus here for how the ST60 compares to the S60 in terms of appreciable input lag (as opposed to numbers in ms or frames)?
post #1078 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroDiiviide View Post

don't even worry about it. you'll cause unnecessary worry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

70ms. Game mode on, Pixel Direct off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroDiiviide View Post

don't worry about it too much i'm a hardcore gamer and i'm telling you, you won't notice the lag. in fact they say game mode drops 10ms off the lag which is about 1 frame... I don't even bother turning game mode on.

thanks, but regarding my question one post above does the S60 hold any real advantage over the ST60 when playing console games (I mainly play single-player or split-screen not online multiplayer)
post #1079 of 1308
Excuse my ignorance and lack of knowledge but I have a question before I buy this TV. I play call of duty multiplayer and am fairly good, I was playing on a 7-8 year old 32" LCD and when the last COD came out, i could tell the screen wasn't keeping up with the movement in the game. I ended up buying a 46" plasma ( th-46pz80u) and it was night and day, as fast as you can move or look in the game, the TV kept up. That made me sold on Plasmas. I want to upgrade to a a 60" and the TCP60ST60 is what I'm look at getting but after reading this thread I'm worried video games won't be fast/crisp and it will be laggy. Will I have to worry about this? And finally, if I'm concerned am I better off picking the s60 over the st60? Not sure the difference aside from 3d, which doesn't interest me.

edit: I play COD on console with mouse and keyboard, so lag IS noticeable for me. So in short, I basically wanting to get a new 60" panasonic without noticing ANY difference in lag versus the current 46" panasonic i have no.
Edited by svt2nv - 9/21/13 at 9:03pm
post #1080 of 1308
After reading so many complaints about input lag on the st60, I was a bit worried when I got my 65" yesterday. First off, picture quality blew me out of my socks, and once I played several games on pc, I noticed ZERO lag issues. Perhaps its blown up out of proportion or those complaining are super sensitive and can notice things others cant. Or maybe its only on certain games that I have yet to try. I played outlast, nba 2k13 and grid 2, and nothing. Get this tv!!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Official ST60 input lag thread