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Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 37

post #1081 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post



thanks, but regarding my question one post above does the S60 hold any real advantage over the ST60 when playing console games (I mainly play single-player or split-screen not online multiplayer)

i doubt it
post #1082 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroDiiviide View Post

i doubt it

did someone not say it had about half the response time? how do these tested times compare to a similar LCD/LED? Aren't they still much faster?
post #1083 of 1308
Does anyone know what effect game mode has on the picture picture quality if left on?
post #1084 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTAPOUT View Post

After reading so many complaints about input lag on the st60, I was a bit worried when I got my 65" yesterday. First off, picture quality blew me out of my socks, and once I played several games on pc, I noticed ZERO lag issues. Perhaps its blown up out of proportion or those complaining are super sensitive and can notice things others cant. Or maybe its only on certain games that I have yet to try. I played outlast, nba 2k13 and grid 2, and nothing. Get this tv!!!
MrTapout I haven't seen your name in a very long time..I used to follow your awesome input and gaming pictures in the official Xbox HDTV
Pictures thread. You had a KURO if I'm not mistaken and it's great to see your enjoying your ST60. I actually thought you would be the one person to hate the lag on this set but if you don't notice it then i can honestly say its a non issue for most gamers, not all, but most.

I have the S60 but I am upgrading to a VT
post #1085 of 1308
I don't know what to pick. I thought I read somewhere that the step down had about half the input lag? is that true? what are the negatives compared to the st other than no 3d?
post #1086 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

If all you're used to playing on is old LCD's, it's very unlikely you would have a problem. (IMHO)


Regarding this, what would be the amount if input lag on such a tv? I went from a LG 32LB75 LCD to a th-46pz80u plasma and it was night and day better for my gaming. i really want this st60 but don't want to take a step backwards, especially not all the way back to how bad my LCD was. I just need an idea of what the numbers are for comparison.
post #1087 of 1308
Screw it, no more sitting on the fence... I'm just going to get a 27" monitor for gaming and then i'll get the st60.
post #1088 of 1308
Just got my 60ST60 yesterday. Going to run the slides, but first tested it to see if it worked and if reading 1,087 posts to date on lag over the past 5 months was worth my time. The lag isn't a deal-breaker, but it's there.

I ran one race on Forza4. Disclosure: I'm near an expert driver in real life (trained in high speed driving at an academy), and give my kids fits on console. I can apex with the best of them. This time, the rear end of my car kept getting out because of a difference in response to stick and trigger movements. It lasted for a lap or two until my mind adjusted to the change and compensated. Just like driving a car with different characteristics in real life or a plane with a spongy pedal, you have to re-learn the controller. I suspect that most timing games will require re-learning. So the lag is real. I won't know until later if shooting games will be disappointing; you can't compensate for taking a bullet to the brain (smile).
post #1089 of 1308
I'm very interested in buying this TV, and will most likely be doing so in the future when I see a decent sale. I came here worried about the input lag and I would imagine that while it's there, it's not an absolutely crippling thing unless you are a really hardcore player of twitch games online.

I will also say though that there are certain games which are effected more by lag. A good game to test input lag on is MLB 13 The Show for PS3. If you can hit in that game without always being late, then I would wager input lag will not be a problem for you.
post #1090 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mva5580 View Post

I'm very interested in buying this TV, and will most likely be doing so in the future when I see a decent sale. I came here worried about the input lag and I would imagine that while it's there, it's not an absolutely crippling thing unless you are a really hardcore player of twitch games online.

I will also say though that there are certain games which are effected more by lag. A good game to test input lag on is MLB 13 The Show for PS3. If you can hit in that game without always being late, then I would wager input lag will not be a problem for you.

I have MLB 13 and you can hit no problem in the game on the ST60. The input lag is overrated as a problem.
post #1091 of 1308
I apologize in advance because i havent re-read this thread or updated myself with last 40 pages, i had kept up about 40 pages in or so. Has there been a firmware update or anything official from Panasonic recently that has supposedly somewhat addressed the input lag or just had a side effect of reducing it slightly? If so have times been re-established with a Bodnar device yet?? I had completely given up on that possibility but i saw two posts elsewhere in last week claiming that to be the case so am just curious if theres any truth to them. please spare me the drama, I dont want to know how you feel its a overblown non issue etc and replying with such wouldn't answer any of my questions. Thanks y'all much appreciated!
post #1092 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by connmen View Post

I have MLB 13 and you can hit no problem in the game on the ST60. The input lag is overrated as a problem.

I don't think it's overrated, it's a proven fact it seems. I think some people won't play games where it affects them as much or aren't competitive enough in certain games for them to care. I play call of duty with a mouse and keyboard using my tv as a screen and I can really notice a difference when I change tv's. I'd think it'd be rather noticeable in twitch type games. Hell, I'm sure some people have never experienced anything better so they just don't even know the difference. I had an older 32" LG lcd and black ops 2 felt like it was always laggy for me when it came out, i could never hit what i was aiming at and i thought it was a connection issue but I ended up getting an 08 46" plasma from a friend for a good deal and it was amazing the difference. instantly it felt snappier, almost made me feel sick it was so crisp. took a bit to get used to but it was a good thing, made the game so much better to play.
post #1093 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveOhFour View Post

I apologize in advance because i havent re-read this thread or updated myself with last 40 pages, i had kept up about 40 pages in or so. Has there been a firmware update or anything official from Panasonic recently that has supposedly somewhat addressed the input lag or just had a side effect of reducing it slightly? If so have times been re-established with a Bodnar device yet?? I had completely given up on that possibility but i saw two posts elsewhere in last week claiming that to be the case so am just curious if theres any truth to them. please spare me the drama, I dont want to know how you feel its a overblown non issue etc and replying with such wouldn't answer any of my questions. Thanks y'all much appreciated!

I was hoping that after 6 days someone would have chimed in with a helpful response as I have the same question.
Was there a firmware update to fix the input lag?
I searched the posts and did not see firmware show up in October results.
post #1094 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

I was hoping that after 6 days someone would have chimed in with a helpful response as I have the same question.
Was there a firmware update to fix the input lag?
I searched the posts and did not see firmware show up in October results.

The updates do not appear to have fixed the input lag. Also, 1080p Direct still adds more on top of everything so keep it off if you care about that.

Games are totally playable on it though, imo.
post #1095 of 1308
The problem isn't overrated, nor is it definitely an issue.

Your absolute best bet, which I understand isn't always possible to do, is to test the games you play on one, or a display with comparable lag times.

It was extremely noticeable, to me, on the ST50 that has 70-80ms input lag. I put on game mode and it was still noticeable. Moved the sources straight to the TV instead of through the receiver, and it was acceptable. I can sense the 40-50ms delay when I try, but it's not a constant annoyance like playing with game mode off and a 70-80ms delay. I cannot fathom comfortably playing on an ST60 with 100+ ms delay...

It's absolutely a real thing, but not guaranteed to bother anyone. Nobody can tell you whether it will bother you or not, you'll just have to try it.
post #1096 of 1308
Your information is wrong, the lag on the st60 is closer to 70ms not 100 ms
post #1097 of 1308

in this review input lag is 29,2 ms   http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/panasonic/st60

post #1098 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Your information is wrong, the lag on the st60 is closer to 70ms not 100 ms

With game mode off, it's over 100ms. With it on, it drops down to a, still poor, 70ms. You may notice I also listed the game mode off input lag for the ST50. With game mode on, the ST50 is closer to 40ms. Meaning, half the ST60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosnia View Post

in this review input lag is 29,2 ms http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/panasonic/st60

That's definitely wrong. I didn't see how they got that number, but other sites that have used the lag testing device have reported 73ms at the lowest, up to I believe around 120ms with game mode off.

Again, it's an issue most will probably not notice, but for those that are sensitive to it -- it's horrible.
post #1099 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorsher View Post

With game mode off, it's over 100ms. With it on, it drops down to a, still poor, 70ms. You may notice I also listed the game mode off input lag for the ST50. With game mode on, the ST50 is closer to 40ms. Meaning, half the ST60.
That's definitely wrong. I didn't see how they got that number, but other sites that have used the lag testing device have reported 73ms at the lowest, up to I believe around 120ms with game mode off.

Again, it's an issue most will probably not notice, but for those that are sensitive to it -- it's horrible.

Just started multiplayer on Battlefield 3 - promptly got my butt handed to me time after time. Seems that split second...when you come face to face with an adversary...and you pull the trigger...well it's a split second too late. Of course the lag doesn't matter much if you change your style of play - say snipe or run people over with tanks. All that said, when I shut the game off and put in a blue-ray...it's still worth it.
post #1100 of 1308
Playing online, your network / ping / router / static IP / port-forwarding are much more important. There might even be a decent amount of ms to be gained by using a cable with the wireless controller.

Using audio sync tests/videos and eyeballing mouth+dialog sync in video, I get between 50ms ~ 70ms delay times with my receiver's delay.
That's without Game Mode on, which I don't use. I have all of the HDMI modes (graphics, photo, etc.) turned to off, every other assist/auto off.
post #1101 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Playing online, your network / ping / router / static IP / port-forwarding are very important too. There might even be a decent amount of ms to be gained by using a cable with the wireless controller.

Using audio sync tests/videos and eyeballing mouth+dialog sync in video, I get between 50ms ~ 70ms delay times with my receiver's delay.
That's without Game Mode on, which I don't use. I have all of the HDMI modes (graphics, photo, etc.) turned to off, every other assist/auto off.
post #1102 of 1308
Just got my ST60 recently and have tried some games on it, can't say I really notice any lag worth being concerned about.
post #1103 of 1308
Have any of the updates helped the lag issue on the ST60?
post #1104 of 1308

I picked up the ST60 a while back. No matter how hard I try, i can't notice any input lag on my PS3, or any gaming system with an hdmi connection. However, plugging in retro systems, or even the Nintendo Wii, causes so much lag that it makes the games unplayable. Game mode helps a bit, but not nearly enough. And it doesn't seem like the recent update changed anything either. Has anyone found a way around this? Does anyone think an AV to HDMI converter would help the issue at all?

post #1105 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorsher View Post

The problem isn't overrated, nor is it definitely an issue.

Your absolute best bet, which I understand isn't always possible to do, is to test the games you play on one, or a display with comparable lag times.

It was extremely noticeable, to me, on the ST50 that has 70-80ms input lag. I put on game mode and it was still noticeable. Moved the sources straight to the TV instead of through the receiver, and it was acceptable. I can sense the 40-50ms delay when I try, but it's not a constant annoyance like playing with game mode off and a 70-80ms delay. I cannot fathom comfortably playing on an ST60 with 100+ ms delay...

It's absolutely a real thing, but not guaranteed to bother anyone. Nobody can tell you whether it will bother you or not, you'll just have to try it.
WRONG THE st50 is rated as GREAT for games with 40ms
post #1106 of 1308
I know the input lag is about 75 ms in game mode, but how much higher is it in Cinema or Custom mode?
post #1107 of 1308
I got my ST60 last week and spent the last week breaking it in with the slides and applying DNice's settings. I was concerned with the lag being you can't read a ST60 review without hearing about it. I threw a bunch of games at it, Borderlands 2, Arkham City, Mortal Kombat 2011, Dishonored and I could not detect it. I finally booted up mame and tried a few old school games to see if I could detect it and for the life of me I guess I am not as sensitive as some. Even Ghouls and Ghosts, a game i played the hell out of as a kid on many different CRTs I could not really feel a lag other than if I second guessed myself that I should be feeling it. I kept hitting jump trying to perceive lag and if I psyched myself out I guess I felt it. Not 100% sure. Definitely not something I would notice if not having read about it 1000x on the Internet.

Maybe on an A/B test with a CRT it's discernible and I am sure that to some it's a big deal. To me it's just not a reason enough to downgrade to a S60 or dump another $1k on a VT60.
post #1108 of 1308
I just spent some time playing some old school 2d nes, and snes games. I don't notice any input lag, and this is with Dnice's settings. Maybe i'm lucky that i don't notice it.
post #1109 of 1308
How bout online play? That's the question.
post #1110 of 1308
Please don't let the input lag discourage you from buying this set. It has no issues on my gaming.
Edited by hoosierdaddie - 11/3/13 at 5:14pm
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