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Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 6

post #151 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Stump909 you're not being helpful. That is all I'm going to say about your comments.

Thank you Moonchilde and El Matadurr for keeping this discussion on track. And Leon! for your "Now that's what I call SCIENCE!" sarcastic quote. wink.gif

"If you make the claim games can be played with this television's input lag, you're off-topic and unhelpful" -moshock

Seriously, I'm only providing additional data to offset all the "I can't play" dissent.
post #152 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

"If you make the claim games can be played with this television's input lag, you're off-topic and unhelpful" -moshock

Seriously, I'm only providing additional data to offset all the "I can't play" dissent.

Don't put words in my mouth. And you aren't providing data - you're bickering. If you were providing data we'd all be happy with you. wink.gif
post #153 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post


Dabois, sure, you game extensively, so do I. I tend to notice it on this set, and I just got done playing a Street Fighter 2 session on it, and I was getting hit by the display lag pretty bad. I had to switch over to my CRT monitor because of it. Even the UT50 was playable, but the ST60 is just unplayable for that game, especially online. It's going to be like that with other fighters, and I'm even noticing animations getting finished after their sound effects. Unless you have some real, scientific proof under a controlled test environment that the lag is ok, please just stick to the other thread and rave about the PQ and the set there. The numbers are in, it's unacceptable for gaming. You aren't adding anything to the thread by coming in and giving everyone your very subjective opinion on the issue.

I'm a top ranked UFC Undisputed 3 fighter and routinely nail nearly all of my reversals. Sorry pal, but this issue is being completely blown out of proportion. I'm play fighting games more than anything. It's unfortunate that individuals are choosing to skew others perception of this set because they're not willing to cope with their lack of skill.
post #154 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post

I'm a top ranked UFC Undisputed 3 fighter and routinely nail nearly all of my reversals. Sorry pal, but this issue is being completely blown out of proportion. I'm play fighting games more than anything. It's unfortunate that individuals are choosing to skew others perception of this set because they're not willing to cope with their lack of skill.

I know you didn't quote me, but for me personally, I'm not trying to skew anyone's perception. I'm just trying to figure out what settings combination yields the lowest input lag rating on a NA model. The little data we have seen so far is quite conflicting. I just wish more individuals that owned the ST60 would participate and get us some workable data. And also me personally, I'm coming from an ST30 with a reported 32ms of lag. I'm not too crazy about potentially quadrupling the input lag, even if that is considered minor to some. But if there's a settings combination that yields ~50ms every time, sign me up! I'll order the 65" right now.
post #155 of 1308
Leo Bodnar lag testing device...$115-$145 shipped (depending on which shipping method you purchase)...http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=89&products_id=212
post #156 of 1308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post

I'm a top ranked UFC Undisputed 3 fighter and routinely nail nearly all of my reversals. Sorry pal, but this issue is being completely blown out of proportion. I'm play fighting games more than anything. It's unfortunate that individuals are choosing to skew others perception of this set because they're not willing to cope with their lack of skill.

Oh, so because we feel lag in our games means we lack skill? How does that correlation work? Are you serious dude? BTW, what's the window for reversals in UFC? 1 frame? 5 frames? You do understand that SF2 is my main game, which has a 1 frame reversal window. Just food for thought. SF4 has 5 frames of reversal window. More food for thought.

Here's some background. I've been playing games since 1986. Tons of NES, SNES games, PS1, PS2, PS3, and lots of PC games, tons of fighters, action games, side scrollers, RPG's, everything. Going from my CRT to this set, I feel the lag on games I've played for 20+ years. I''ve been playing fighters competitively for about 4 years now and I'm going to EVO this year for the SF2 tournament. There is a feeling of lag on this display. How bad it is, is in the eye of the beholder. What it seems to me is that you don't want any other perspective other than yours, which is funny because you're the one complaining in the input lag thread about us supposedly oppressing your view, which isn't the case.


Lets compare something. You = coming into our thread to derail the topic and at our requests, you and Stump909 have yet to respect our wishes to provide factual data and leave us to our devices. Us = created a new thread at the request of people in the ST60 thread to keep discussion mainly about PQ and options and not input lag. Who's making sense now? And in case you've forgotten, I've actually supplied numbers to back it up, however, you and Stump909 have done nothing but bury it 3 pages back with your incessant subjective crap. What have you done besides complain, and derail the thread?

These posts are not to skew perception, just tell what it is. I'm glad you're fine with the set, because it's a great TV for just about every other aspect of it. But the numbers aren't agreeing with you, and until other people can start testing (seriously if you have the f'n set do it already!!! mad.gif) and share the info, we would greatly appreciate it.

However, until you and Stump909, owners of the ST60, can start posting numbers instead of your subjective view, could you please stay out of the discussion?


I would suggest to anyone else, to please refrain from replying to both Dabois09 and Stump909, unless they actually start providing data we can work with, then of course, we should be happy to receive their input.
post #157 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post

I'm a top ranked UFC Undisputed 3 fighter and routinely nail nearly all of my reversals. Sorry pal, but this issue is being completely blown out of proportion. I'm play fighting games more than anything. It's unfortunate that individuals are choosing to skew others perception of this set because they're not willing to cope with their lack of skill.

Oh, so because we feel lag in our games means we lack skill? How does that correlation work? Are you serious dude? BTW, what's the window for reversals in UFC? 1 frame? 5 frames? You do understand that SF2 is my main game, which has a 1 frame reversal window. Just food for thought. SF4 has 5 frames of reversal window. More food for thought.

Here's some background. I've been playing games since 1986. Tons of NES, SNES games, PS1, PS2, PS3, and lots of PC games, tons of fighters, action games, side scrollers, RPG's, everything. Going from my CRT to this set, I feel the lag on games I've played for 20+ years. I''ve been playing fighters competitively for about 4 years now and I'm going to EVO this year for the SF2 tournament. There is a feeling of lag on this display. How bad it is, is in the eye of the beholder. What it seems to me is that you don't want any other perspective other than yours, which is funny because you're the one complaining in the input lag thread about us supposedly oppressing your view, which isn't the case.


Lets compare something. You = coming into our thread to derail the topic and at our requests, you and Stump909 have yet to respect our wishes to provide factual data and leave us to our devices. Us = created a new thread at the request of people in the ST60 thread to keep discussion mainly about PQ and options and not input lag. Who's making sense now? And in case you've forgotten, I've actually supplied numbers to back it up, however, you and Stump909 have done nothing but bury it 3 pages back with your incessant subjective crap. What have you done besides complain, and derail the thread?

These posts are not to skew perception, just tell what it is. I'm glad you're fine with the set, because it's a great TV for just about every other aspect of it. But the numbers aren't agreeing with you, and until other people can start testing (seriously if you have the f'n set do it already!!! mad.gif) and share the info, we would greatly appreciate it.

However, until you and Stump909, owners of the ST60, can start posting numbers instead of your subjective view, could you please stay out of the discussion?


I would suggest to anyone else, to please refrain from replying to both Dabois09 and Stump909, unless they actually start providing data we can work with, then of course, we should be happy to receive their input.

It's a 1 frame reversal Window

Judging by your response you're likely new to HDTV's. Expecting CRT response times in any HDTV is asinine... Perhaps a gaming LED monitor is more up your alley. I have absolutely zero problems with my set, and am a 21 year old avid gamer. Heck that's about all I do with this set. There's no reason to not buy this TV. Besides Panasonic will likely release a firmware that disables the apps game mode if that is indeed what is causing the problem. Or one of us will.
post #158 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Oh, so because we feel lag in our games means we lack skill? How does that correlation work? Are you serious dude? BTW, what's the window for reversals in UFC? 1 frame? 5 frames? You do understand that SF2 is my main game, which has a 1 frame reversal window. Just food for thought. SF4 has 5 frames of reversal window. More food for thought.

Here's some background. I've been playing games since 1986. Tons of NES, SNES games, PS1, PS2, PS3, and lots of PC games, tons of fighters, action games, side scrollers, RPG's, everything. Going from my CRT to this set, I feel the lag on games I've played for 20+ years. I''ve been playing fighters competitively for about 4 years now and I'm going to EVO this year for the SF2 tournament. There is a feeling of lag on this display. How bad it is, is in the eye of the beholder. What it seems to me is that you don't want any other perspective other than yours, which is funny because you're the one complaining in the input lag thread about us supposedly oppressing your view, which isn't the case.


Lets compare something. You = coming into our thread to derail the topic and at our requests, you and Stump909 have yet to respect our wishes to provide factual data and leave us to our devices. Us = created a new thread at the request of people in the ST60 thread to keep discussion mainly about PQ and options and not input lag. Who's making sense now? And in case you've forgotten, I've actually supplied numbers to back it up, however, you and Stump909 have done nothing but bury it 3 pages back with your incessant subjective crap. What have you done besides complain, and derail the thread?

These posts are not to skew perception, just tell what it is. I'm glad you're fine with the set, because it's a great TV for just about every other aspect of it. But the numbers aren't agreeing with you, and until other people can start testing (seriously if you have the f'n set do it already!!! mad.gif) and share the info, we would greatly appreciate it.

However, until you and Stump909, owners of the ST60, can start posting numbers instead of your subjective view, could you please stay out of the discussion?


I would suggest to anyone else, to please refrain from replying to both Dabois09 and Stump909, unless they actually start providing data we can work with, then of course, we should be happy to receive their input.

By saying the TV is playable with the current input lag, we are effectively burying the thread in crap, but you replying right off to bat to tell us we're wrong is helpful? I don't even think I've brought up PQ in this thread more than once. Despite what you want to believe, the effects of input lag are just as much subjective as they are objective. I've reposted photos, provided experience from other users, yet nothing satisfies your "objective" craving. You don't get to dictate the flow of discussion just because you started this thread.
post #159 of 1308
So I tried to write Panasonic an email in the hopes that we could get a firmware started to get the lag down to an absolute minimum. I don't own the tv though, just thought it could be something I could do to help, because I am interested in this tv. The response I got was no good, telling me to call in. Frankly, I think I would feel stupid calling in when I don't even own the set. Emailing them real quick saying I am a potential buyer, but scared about the input lag test data out there is one thing, but the thought of getting on the phone and trying to explain to someone the reason why I have called is quite another. I imagine some type of lost in translation, what the hell are you doing calling me type of conversation.

I emailed..."I'm intersted in purchasing a plasma tv. The TC-P60ST60 looks like a perfect match, except I found in my research that the input lag tested high, close to 70ms. These results are scaring potential buyers away. Is there something that can be done to lower input lag? Possibly a firmware update that would allow users to change a setting that would lower input lag? I don't know what makes the 2013 ST models have higher lag than the 2012 ST models, but maybe it could be something as simple as the always connected apps?"

That was all I could fit in with the minimal character count they apply.

They emailed me back..."We apologize for the delay in providing you with a reply to your inquiry and we hope that this delay has not caused you any inconvenience, based on the description of the problem that you are experiencing this will require additional information.
We would like you to contact our Panasonic Customer Call Center at (800)211-7262. The hours of operation are Monday through Friday 9 AM to 9 PM. Saturday and Sunday 10 AM to 7 PM Eastern Standard Time. A representative will be available to assist you. Please have your case number, which is listed at the top portion of your e-mail, available at the time of the call.
We hope this information is helpful to you. Thank you for contacting Panasonic
."

I just don't know if I could call in based on my situation. I mean it is one thing if I owned it, but I don't. This was a good tactic at just batting me away, in my opinion.
post #160 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I just don't know if I could call in based on my situation. I mean it is one thing if I owned it, but I don't. This was a good tactic at just batting me away, in my opinion.
I say you should follow up with their request to call them. You should just be straightforward in telling them that there is an increase in lag this year, and that there is at least some objective data bringing it up (even in reviews, not just people on forums). Most companies treat potential customers as future customers, so any TV you don't buy is essentially money lost to them. You could always play the "Well I'm looking at other brands in case this issue isn't resolved" card. Playing dirty...maybe. But the more people that call/email in, the better.
post #161 of 1308
Thread Starter 
The contact page email isn't very good, it often goes to a person who doesn't understand English fully. If you escalate, they will eventually get you to an English speaker. You could try calling, too, which may get you results faster, however, right now I'm on a week wait to hear back from them. So, hopefully in a week we get some more concrete info, if not...

My advice is to ask to have your email forwarded to a Tech Knowledge Specialist. They're an upper tier who speaks English.


Don't bother, we got our answer.
Edited by Moonchilde - 4/16/13 at 8:53am
post #162 of 1308
Quote:
We sincerely apologize for the delayed response.

We have spoken with our display engineers regarding the Picture Lag Time you reported.

We have shared all information you have provided to them.

There aren't any picture settings to make as the 2013 plasma TVs do not have a GAME mode.

There aren't any "processes" or "functions" in the TV which you can turn off or disable to improve the display time in the TV.

We have had several gamers with a variety of TVs recommend connecting the game system directly to the TV using the shortest possible HDMI cable.

There is not now nor will there be in the near future, from the information we have been provided, a firmware update released to improve the display time for gamers.

If there is anything else we can assist you with, please do not hesitate to ask.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Thank you for choosing Panasonic.
Sigh. frown.gif
post #163 of 1308
Thread Starter 
LOL, that is the SAME EXACT email I got. As soon as you posted it, I checked my inbox and saw the same one.

Just goes to show they don't even know their own product line. No game mode? Either that or the "Game mode" option really doesn't do anything other than gray out motion smoother. No processes or functions they're willing to disable from the Home menu via firmware update, or the apps menu, because that would be rolling back features and people are impatient so they can't wait for stuff to load.

How I wish I had a Leo Bodnar testing device now so I could take it TV shopping, or even test all the features on or off on the set, or see if game mode actually does anything.
post #164 of 1308
Well, I'll be replying to it with how disappointed I am. This is my first Plasma and first Panasonic display. Since I purchased it directly from Panasonic maybe they will let me exchange it? I wonder how much picture quality loss is in the S60 which doesn't seem to have these issues.
post #165 of 1308
Well, I'll be replying to it with how disappointed I am. This is my first Plasma and first Panasonic display. Since I purchased it directly from Panasonic maybe they will let me exchange it? I wonder how much picture quality loss is in the S60 which doesn't seem to have these issues.
post #166 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atty View Post

Sigh. frown.gif
Well...that sucks. At least we've got an idea now of how Panasonic is treating the issue. :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atty View Post

Well, I'll be replying to it with how disappointed I am. This is my first Plasma and first Panasonic display. Since I purchased it directly from Panasonic maybe they will let me exchange it? I wonder how much picture quality loss is in the S60 which doesn't seem to have these issues.
Half as many shades of gradation, no AR filter, no 3D, bare-bones smart apps (Netflix, Youtube, etc.). If you have a light-controlled/dark room, the S60 is poised to perform, very, very well. It even has some pro adjustment settings for better tinkering. Based on that lackluster response from Panasonic (among other factors, of course), I'm definitely going the S60 route now.
post #167 of 1308
Thanks atty and others. I wonder what percentage of customers care about this now, and then what that percentage would be in 10 years. Now I will have to dig in deeper to fully understand the differences between the ST series and S/S64 series. Did D-Nice do settings for the S/S64 series this year?

EDIT- BTW, this may be better suited to the general plasma lag thread...but I would be happy to donate $5 towards a Leo Bodnar device if someone was willing to tackle a bunch lag testing with that device on different plasma models.
Edited by mphfrom77 - 4/16/13 at 11:03am
post #168 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Thanks atty and others. I wonder what percentage of customers care about this now, and then what that percentage would be in 10 years. Now I will have to dig in deeper to fully understand the differences between the ST series and S/S64 series. Did D-Nice do settings for the S/S64 series this year?
D-Nice will have settings for the S60 models, yes. Common logic would assume they'll be the next settings up since the VT/ZT aren't really out en masse yet. However, whether or not the S60 settings will transfer well to the S64 (with the AR filter) is up for debate. And no, I highly doubt he'll release S64-specific settings, since it's such a low-produced TV this year.
Quote:
EDIT- BTW, this may be better suited to the general plasma lag thread...but I would be happy to donate $5 towards a Leo Bodnar device if someone was willing to tackle a bunch lag testing with that device on different plasma models.
I actually wouldn't mind doing something like this, to go around a BB store or the like for a few hours. I'm sure they wouldn't mind (well...at least not in the magnolia theater. messing with the showroom TVs probably would be frowned upon). But I'd need a lot of donations of $5 to get that thing paid for!
post #169 of 1308
I'm gonna chime in since I've been following this thread since it was started. I don't own the st60, but I'm planning to get one.

I currently own a Samsung PN50B650. I used to play a lot of video games, now, not so much, but I do sometimes. When I first bought the Samsung, I was using some calibrated settings I found, in movie mode. I have always played the NBA 2K series on xbox 360. I was having a hard time getting the timing down on some jumpshots, since the nba 2k games have a lot of signature jumpshot variations, but I was blaming myself for the timing errors. One day I had to plug the xbox to my pc monitor to play, and the difference in response between the two screens was astonishing. On the tv, players felt really sluggish to move in general, whether on the monitor it felt really good and smooth. I then remembered that the tv had a game mode that was supposed to eliminate input lag, and I turned it on. The game became similar to the monitor to play. It was more responsive all around, and my I could finally get the jumpshots' timings down easily. The only downside was that I hated the picture with game mode on, so I bought myself a colormeter and calibrated the tv myself, trying to get the same colors as the movie mode settings I was using. Before this, I've never used game mode on my previous tvs, but now, I cannot play on a set with high input lag. It's not that fun to play when games feel sluggish to respond to your commands. There are people that often blame games for feeling sluggish, but they don't know that it may also be the tv's input lag at fault.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
post #170 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

The contact page email isn't very good, it often goes to a person who doesn't understand English fully. If you escalate, they will eventually get you to an English speaker. You could try calling, too, which may get you results faster, however, right now I'm on a week wait to hear back from them. So, hopefully in a week we get some more concrete info, if not...

My advice is to ask to have your email forwarded to a Tech Knowledge Specialist. They're an upper tier who speaks English.


Don't bother, we got our answer.

I wouldn't give up hope just yet. That response seems more aimed at the technological limitations of the panel rather than bugs that could be creating the issue. A user in the ST60 thread said he believes motion smoothing can't be disabled at the moment, despite having an off switch. Perhaps it's part of the problem?
post #171 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

D-Nice will have settings for the S60 models, yes. Common logic would assume they'll be the next settings up since the VT/ZT aren't really out en masse yet. However, whether or not the S60 settings will transfer well to the S64 (with the AR filter) is up for debate. And no, I highly doubt he'll release S64-specific settings, since it's such a low-produced TV this year.
I actually wouldn't mind doing something like this, to go around a BB store or the like for a few hours. I'm sure they wouldn't mind (well...at least not in the magnolia theater. messing with the showroom TVs probably would be frowned upon). But I'd need a lot of donations of $5 to get that thing paid for!

I have not seen comments lately, but when I initially started my research I was under the impression that D-Nice never did the lower tier Panny plasmas. Is it a fact that he is doing the S60's this year then?

El Matadur, I don't think it would be too difficult to get something like 15-25 donations. I mean, damn look at all the posters talking about lag, this and that. It would be nice if we could get an AVS'er to go to a store and record the lag, if it is a simple, quick process. I'm sure it would help to go in knowing exactly which settings that will get you the lowest time.

Initially I was like, well since you (or someone else) would be the one to get to keep the device then what dollar amount do we need to get to and that you/they pay the rest. But honestly time spent, gas, and whatever else should be factored into everyone's donation, so again I guess we need to figure out exactly how much we need to come up with

The fact that the contraption is actually relatively inexpensive (sort of), I think that this is definitely doable.

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=89&products_id=212

Like I said earlier, it depends on how you have it shipped, but shipped it costs $115-$145, I believe unless I am missing something.

I imagine we could get donations together fairly quickly, especially if we notify some guys in the xbox / playstation section, along with other posters that have talked about here in the plasma section.

I am definitely not the guy for this, but I will help to try and organize some people to donate.

Maybe we should move the rest of this conversation over to the general plasma lag thread...idk. Actually if someone does decide to take this on we should just start a donation thread / organization thread.
post #172 of 1308
Guys, I fully intend to test the ST60. Sorry for the delay. All testing on my site is through the Bodnar tester, will let you guys know as soon as I get to it. Thanks for the patience.
post #173 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

Guys, I fully intend to test the ST60. Sorry for the delay. All testing on my site is through the Bodnar tester, will let you guys know as soon as I get to it. Thanks for the patience.

Fantastic news! From your experience, could network connectivity (especially with all these "Smart"TV features) have an impact on the processors ability to focus on video?

Edit: I also believe one user was quoted as saying a certain overscan setting had an impact....I'll have to find the link.
post #174 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I have not seen comments lately, but when I initially started my research I was under the impression that D-Nice never did the lower tier Panny plasmas. Is it a fact that he is doing the S60's this year then?

El Matadur, I don't think it would be too difficult to get something like 15-25 donations. I mean, damn look at all the posters talking about lag, this and that. It would be nice if we could get an AVS'er to go to a store and record the lag, if it is a simple, quick process. I'm sure it would help to go in knowing exactly which settings that will get you the lowest time.

Initially I was like, well since you (or someone else) would be the one to get to keep the device then what dollar amount do we need to get to and that you/they pay the rest. But honestly time spent, gas, and whatever else should be factored into everyone's donation, so again I guess we need to figure out exactly how much we need to come up with

The fact that the contraption is actually relatively inexpensive (sort of), I think that this is definitely doable.

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=89&products_id=212

Like I said earlier, it depends on how you have it shipped, but shipped it costs $115-$145, I believe unless I am missing something.

I imagine we could get donations together fairly quickly, especially if we notify some guys in the xbox / playstation section, along with other posters that have talked about here in the plasma section.

I am definitely not the guy for this, but I will help to try and organize some people to donate.

Maybe we should move the rest of this conversation over to the general plasma lag thread...idk. Actually if someone does decide to take this on we should just start a donation thread / organization thread.
Sounds like a good idea, though FourWude below seems to have beat me to it. biggrin.gif
P.S. Quoting his post in the HDJ forum:
Quote:
Recommended 100 Hour Panel Prep Settings for North American Panasonic TC-PxxS60/ST60/VT60/ZT60 models (ONLY to be used with USB/SD Card Files attached below!!!!!!!!)
He usually never does the lower tier, you're right. But the S60 this year has some good pro controls, so that surely is factoring in that D-Nice may be able to get a fantastic picture out of it. He has four posts reserved for settings (S/ST/VT/ZT). Hope he posts a calibration report soon. I mean dang, I remember on the GT30 he posted instructions for calibrating in the service menu. I wouldn't put it past him to do that with the S60 if even the new pro controls aren't enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

Guys, I fully intend to test the ST60. Sorry for the delay. All testing on my site is through the Bodnar tester, will let you guys know as soon as I get to it. Thanks for the patience.
You. Rock. Definitely looking forward to the comparison between the S and ST. Glad to know our emails weren't sent in vain. biggrin.gif
post #175 of 1308
barring defect, I won't be returning my st60 for lag.
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/18/13 at 1:47pm
post #176 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

Following slide conditioning and D-Nice's calibration, I fell in love with this set. Barring defect, I won't be returning it for lag. I won't rehash my impressions here; those are covered elsewhere.

So I'm trying to get creative about how to reduce combined lag:

I'm an fps gamer on PS3. From day one, I found the PS3 itself has a LOT of control lag inherent and that was/is difficult for me. I read that it is quite a lot and varies wildly depending on game.

This thread isn't really on this topic, but if I can reduce the PS3's control lag, that would seem to me to compensate somewhat for combined/total lag.

Does anyone know if it is true that the PS3's control lag can be reduced a lot by using wired USB controllers instead of blue tooth? Or is there another wireless protocol that is significantly faster? I'm thinking maybe something with a USB dongle...??

If yes, suggestions on a decent controller would be appreciated.

I have a FragNstein controller that uses a dongle, but it does not seem to me to be appreciably faster than the standard Sony controllers.

I was going to just order a wired usb controller and find out for myself, but so far everything I've found has poor customer reviews. Mostly cheap/junk quality types of complaints.

Lacking the above, I'll look into a game vid card for my PC and run an HDMI cable so I can game on the PC if the combined control lag is significantly reduced compared to gaming on the PS3.
Not sure why the (first-party?) wired PS3 controllers are getting bad reviews. That's odd.
But those things would be a good idea to try out. Played on a PS3 once, the inherent lag with the system (as you say) is instantly noticeable.
post #177 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

Guys, I fully intend to test the ST60. Sorry for the delay. All testing on my site is through the Bodnar tester, will let you guys know as soon as I get to it. Thanks for the patience.

Yeeessss!! Please do the S60 and the ST60!! And it sounds like there are a lot of variables in the ST60 that alter the input lag results, so hopefully you have time to tinker around and post your best results. smile.gif
post #178 of 1308
Thank you. I'll give it a try.
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/18/13 at 1:48pm
post #179 of 1308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

Guys, I fully intend to test the ST60. Sorry for the delay. All testing on my site is through the Bodnar tester, will let you guys know as soon as I get to it. Thanks for the patience.

Great news. I can't wait to see the results, now I'm kinda interested in a VT60. If it's going to be as low lag as people are saying and has an incredible picture, then I may bite the bullet and get one and sit on it for about 7 years. I think that would be worth it if it was reference.

Only thing is, I have less than 2 weeks now to wait for reviews to still fall within the exchange period.

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Sir MountainMichael,

First party wireless Sony controllers have already been tested to not have any more lag than a wired PS2 controller. The syncing tech behind it is extremely good. Fragnstein works by translating mouse movements and mapping them to analog controls, which will feel a little bit sluggish compared to pure mouse controls on a PC. It's because the games are built for analog control and and can't be defeated, even if using a mouse mapped to those controls. This isn't any real control lag coming from the PS3, just the games.

On top of that, PS3 shooters are running at 30 fps max and usually sub 30 on average, so this means there is a high native input lag as it is. Any post effects will up the input lag by a frame or two, sometimes more. Frame drops will then further increase it.

Consoles aren't ideal for shooters. Even the high frame rate games like Call of Duty are running at an average of 45 fps on PS3 and 55 on Xbox, and vary in frame rate. Then you have to remember they're built around analog stick control, with tons of hidden auto aim options going on.
post #180 of 1308
Moonchilde,

Thank you for the input.
Edited by MountainMichael - 6/18/13 at 1:49pm
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