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Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 11

post #301 of 1308
Thread Starter 
Yes, their site has no objectivity behind it. They don't even mention how they go their numbers. Did they test against a CRT? A laptop? Did they use a "Rockband" test? None of that was answered. They didn't even mention what settings they used on the TV. I really can't condone that input lag test. They've also happily admitted they are not gamers and then went on to mention they can't feel any lag. Their review is way too subjective.


Ok, so, I re-ran my tests tonight. The reason is because I got in the mail today a DVI to HDMI adapter so that I could dual DVI out instead of having one monitor connected to DVI and one monitor HDMI. The adapter will not add any additional lag because it simply acts as a pass through for the digital signal from the DVI-I out through the HDMI cable to the TV. And... sadly it made NO difference. The test results are still the same. The plasma is still 5 frames behind my CRT on game mode. Some good news though:

HDMI Content settings do not create any additional lag. This is good because everyone should have their HDMI Content set to Photos. Why? Because if you use 1080p Direct, it defeats the edge contouring (the halos everyone hates) that mode seems to automatically enable. I also found that when the TV scales content, such as a PC resolution of 1024x768, the scaling would enable that same edge contouring everyone hates from 1080p Direct. Of course, as HDMI Content Photos defeats it in 1080p Direct, it also defeats it during scaling modes. This is something I didn't test before, and wanted to see how it affected the TV.

So my advice is, that for any 2013 Panny, enabled Photos mode always as it is best for the TV when it switches resolutions to match the video content.

The only drawback is that Photos mode disables Color Gamut options in the Pro menu, however I don't think this is a problem since Photos looks more like Normal which is a more accurate mode than Native. I haven't used my meter to measure it though, so I can't be 100% sure.

Again, I tested 1080p Direct to double check the lag it adds on, and it only adds 1 frame of lag, not 100 ms like earlier claims or 50 ms like some other claims. Just like my previous 1080p Direct test. I'm happy to say 1080p Direct isn't a really big deal like everyone was initially worried about, because the test results have been repeatable in a controlled testing environment.

One more thing I was able to test this time that I simply ignored to test before. Testing other picture modes such as Vivid which disable the Pro CMS settings used in Cinema and Custom. I'm happy to say, the CMS is NOT adding any additional lag. The non-CMS modes are the same 5 frames of input lag as the CMS modes are with Game Mode set to on.

Every other processing elements were turned off. I've even gone so far as to disconnect the Wireless Network USB card from the set. Nothing makes a difference other than adding on Motion Smoothing, which only adds 1 frame of lag on a setting of Strong.

The native input lag of the TV is 6 frames. Motion smoothing will add 1 frame. 1080p Direct will add 1 frame. Turning on Game Mode will subtract a frame. The lowest you can get the set compared to a CRT is 5 frames.

I have to say, I think I've successfully ruled out every possible element of error from my tests besides going to the point of testing with a Leo Bodnar device. I really don't think the LB is going to be any better, in fact I'm thinking it's probably going to be worse.

I cannot recommend this TV for gamers.
post #302 of 1308
Thread Starter 
Anyway, I really don't have any other input to add to this set, so this is probably it for me and this thread. I've done all I can and tested to the best of my ability.

Thanks everyone for sharing info and helping me set my methods straight.
post #303 of 1308
Appreciate the effort man.

I had a quick question...some others were saying before that even with game mode on and that motion smoothing turned off that it still looked like there was still a small amount of that effect being added...perhaps a glitch. Any thoughts on this, maybe a bug, or is there a picture mode that disables this effect by default that could be tested also?
post #304 of 1308
Thread Starter 
Game Mode completely disables Motion Smoothing and forces the TV to 60 Hz. It also disables 24p output so I'm assuming BD would be forced to 30 fps. I haven't seen any Motion Smoothing on at all times, nothing like that. I've enabled 24p and watched a film and even checked 3D modes and turned on Motion Smoothing. There is an obvious difference of on or off, and I have only seen Motion Smoothing work for film content. I haven't seen it work for games, I haven't seen it change any other mode of TV play.

Anyway, in my testing the TV would default to 6 frames. That's Game Mode off. To even enable Motion Smoothing, Game Mode needs toggled off, otherwise it would be 5 frames with Game Mode on. Motion Smoothing added 1 frame of lag, for a total of 7 frames of input lag. Weak, Medium, or Strong, all didn't matter it was all 1 frame. There is an obvious difference between enabled and disabled by 1 frame of lag. If Motion Smoothing was perpetually on, then my testing wouldn't reveal any additional lag by toggling Motion Smoothing off, and it would have remained 6 frames whether on or off was selected.

Hope that helps.
post #305 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

Yeah.. I can't believe how we keep getting screwed.. on everything not just A/V gear. And the exchange rate has been at par or close to par with the USD for years now !

I get mad when I see forum members talking about how they got this tv for that, and this receiver for this... wish we had those prices up here.
Well, looking at it from a population perspective it makes sense, since the US outnumbers us ten-fold. That's a lot more wallets spending a lot more quiche, a lot more stores to meet demand, a lot more supply for the same reason, and a lot more competition; taking all that into consideration, it makes sense that the US would see lower prices across the board. Nonetheless, it doesn't really help the feeling that we're getting shafted... but hey, free health care!

More on-topic, this input lag business is disappointing, but it's particularly annoying that I have no way of verifying whether or not it's anything I'd even notice outside of lugging one home and testing it out. I do play twitch shooters and fighting games from time to time at a decent skill level, and input lag has never been an issue for me on either of my LCD displays (my computer monitor and tv). Perhaps true blacks and immaculate picture are not in my future.
post #306 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubology Now View Post

Well, looking at it from a population perspective it makes sense, since the US outnumbers us ten-fold. That's a lot more wallets spending a lot more quiche, a lot more stores to meet demand, a lot more supply for the same reason, and a lot more competition; taking all that into consideration, it makes sense that the US would see lower prices across the board. Nonetheless, it doesn't really help the feeling that we're getting shafted... but hey, free health care!

More on-topic, this input lag business is disappointing, but it's particularly annoying that I have no way of verifying whether or not it's anything I'd even notice outside of lugging one home and testing it out. I do play twitch shooters and fighting games from time to time at a decent skill level, and input lag has never been an issue for me on either of my LCD displays (my computer monitor and tv). Perhaps true blacks and immaculate picture are not in my future.

Too embarrassing to test in store (probably would be for me)? Or no less of a hassle lugging in your setup?
post #307 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

Too embarrassing to test in store (probably would be for me)? Or no less of a hassle lugging in your setup?
It's not feasible. I'd have to bring in my desktop, associated cables, wired kb/mouse... and then I'd have to find a suitable surface to sit and play on. It'd be difficult to accommodate all that, even if they agreed to let me do it, which they probably wouldn't.

And yes, it would be a bit embarrassing, but only for a minute or two. After all, I just want to confirm/disconfirm the issue for myself; that's more important than how people look at me in a Best Buy I set foot in once every few months.
post #308 of 1308
No console game, even if not a regular, that you're still familiar enough with response to compare?
post #309 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

No console game, even if not a regular, that you're still familiar enough with response to compare?
No, since I'm more concerned about the FPS experience and only game on KB/M for those.
post #310 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubology Now View Post

No, since I'm more concerned about the FPS experience and only game on KB/M for those.

Ah, I thought the input lag would be translatable enough to know, without bringing that entire setup in. Oh well, have it shipped & try.. if it doesn't pass, ship it back out!
post #311 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Edit- BTW they didn't have a section on input lag for their S60 review.
Lee told me in his email that the least he would do is add an input lag section to the ST60 review, at the most an article comparing both TVs. No mention of editing the S60 review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I cannot recommend this TV for gamers.
Kudos on the extended testing Moonchilde. Smooth sailing with my 60S60 right now (30 minutes of slides left). Going to try out some settings after a few hours. I played 5 minutes of offline Halo and a few hours of Bioshock Infinite last night (health-bar-causing-image-retention-be-damned). Halo felt great, almost too responsive, while Bioshock Infinite was noticeably laggier even with V-sync turned off. Seems it was more in how the game played, rather than the set. That said, Halo had 1080p direct off, while Bioshock had it on. More testing to come tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubology Now View Post

And yes, it would be a bit embarrassing, but only for a minute or two. After all, I just want to confirm/disconfirm the issue for myself; that's more important than how people look at me in a Best Buy I set foot in once every few months.
If it's important to you (as it should be), then you may very well have to nut up and take home the ST60 to try it for yourself. Best-case scenario: you end up with a fantastic PQ TV that's good for gaming (you personally can't notice the lag). Worst-case scenario: you can notice the lag and take it back for the better-valued S60. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

Ah, I thought the input lag would be translatable enough to know, without bringing that entire setup in. Oh well, have it shipped & try.. if it doesn't pass, ship it back out!
No! Not with the return shipping fees some stores charge. Abt was going to charge me $300 to send back a panel if it was defective. It's worth the little bit of up-charge to pay tax and get it across town in this case.
post #312 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Lee told me in his email that the least he would do is add an input lag section to the ST60 review, at the most an article comparing both TVs. No mention of editing the S60 review.
Kudos on the extended testing Moonchilde. Smooth sailing with my 60S60 right now (30 minutes of slides left). Going to try out some settings after a few hours. I played 5 minutes of offline Halo and a few hours of Bioshock Infinite last night (health-bar-causing-image-retention-be-damned). Halo felt great, almost too responsive, while Bioshock Infinite was noticeably laggier even with V-sync turned off. Seems it was more in how the game played, rather than the set. That said, Halo had 1080p direct off, while Bioshock had it on. More testing to come tonight.

If it's important to you (as it should be), then you may very well have to nut up and take home the ST60 to try it for yourself. Best-case scenario: you end up with a fantastic PQ TV that's good for gaming (you personally can't notice the lag). Worst-case scenario: you can notice the lag and take it back for the better-valued S60. wink.gif
You know what, I just found out about the Costco version of the S60 (S64?) which supposedly comes with the anti-glare screen that makes the ST60 such a good performer in strong light. Maybe those will be hitting Canadian stores soon... I've got at least a few weeks before I move into my new place, so I can at least look at the ST60 and get a feel for the image and compare it against the S64. Coming from LCD, I imagine either model would be a huge upgrade, but the lighting is a huge factor since my living room lets in a LOT of light that I won't be able to address for at least another few months.
post #313 of 1308
I had to jump into this thread as I have been following it for many days now. I bought the 50st60 about 3 weeks ago and INSTANTLY noticed visible input lag, specifically on first person shooters (anything that demands quick twitch movements and low input lag). I tried every setting to eliminate this lag but couldn't find ANY fix for it. I am SO VERY disappointed that the "better" st60 panel has significant input lag and at first I refused to believe it. I thought to myself, "Wow, how could everything be perfect about this st60 except high input lag?" I wanted to wait and see if it could be fixed with a firmware upgrade after reading earlier in this thread, or something to that extent, but I just don't have the luxury to sit around and wait while the return policy got closer and closer to being over. So after reading Midkay's posts (and watching his videos) and several others about how responsive the lower end model s60 is, I decided to take my xbox up to best buy and actually test it while I returned my 50st60. Right away I noticed how responsive the s60 was and it didn't take me but 20 seconds after testing it to pull the trigger on the 50s60. I want to make this very clear to any of those hesitant about the st60's input lag. I CANNOT RECOMMEND THE ST60 FOR GAMERS as I am VERY sensitive to input lag. I wanted to add this post to the thread since I was so upset about the st60 performing so well in every aspect BUT input lag, it really is very depressing! Thanks everyone for helping me come to this decision! At the end of the day I may have lost active 3d and the Anti-glare filter, maybe even a little better blacks, but gaming is SUPER important to me and a TV is pointless if I can't game on it BOTTOM LINE. The best news is that I saved money too!! I hope this feedback serves as help to others looking for a new 2013 panny plasma!

Much love,
Jordan
post #314 of 1308
Sounds like gamers should just down grade in picture quality and get S60/S64 or upgrade to the VT60.
post #315 of 1308
See, another example of some saying its horrible, some saying its fine. One gamer says its fine, go get it, another says if you game do not get it. Still gonna hold off until more info is out there.
post #316 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubology Now View Post

I imagine either model would be a huge upgrade, but the lighting is a huge factor since my living room lets in a LOT of light that I won't be able to address for at least another few months.
True, any 2013 plasma (probably even the X60) would be a noticeable upgrade. If you will in the near future be getting your new place light-controlled, it may behoove you to look for some deals on a large S60. Hhgregg will pricematch EastCoatTVs, where I got a 60S60 for 1099.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlasmax View Post

At the end of the day I may have lost active 3d and the Anti-glare filter, maybe even a little better blacks, but gaming is SUPER important to me and a TV is pointless if I can't game on it BOTTOM LINE. The best news is that I saved money too!! I hope this feedback serves as help to others looking for a new 2013 panny plasma!

Much love,
Jordan
A shame to hear (again). Thanks for contributing. It is a shame we can't turn enough parameters off to get that lag down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Sounds like gamers should just down grade in picture quality and get S60/S64 or upgrade to the VT60.
Novel idea, but only if their budget allows. If NA had the GT60 this year, there wouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post

See, another example of some saying its horrible, some saying its fine. One gamer says its fine, go get it, another says if you game do not get it. Still gonna hold off until more info is out there.
A majority of those on here note that the ST60 makes playing twitch games a pain. Some say they can notice lag, but that it doesn't affect their gameplay. Very few say it's "just fine". Let's hope DisplayLag's Leo Bodnar tests will put this whole discussion to rest. smile.gif He needs to get rid of that flu he's got.
post #317 of 1308
Just ran a "rockband" input lag test on my Vizio XVT553SV and I'm getting 91ms for audio and 74ms for video. I had no idea it was that bad. Heck if I'm already used to that high of a number the ST60 won't bother me any.
post #318 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post

Just ran a "rockband" input lag test on my Vizio XVT553SV and I'm getting 91ms for audio and 74ms for video. I had no idea it was that bad. Heck if I'm already used to that high of a number the ST60 won't bother me any.

I have been saying I don't notice input lag on this TV since the beginning.

I am guessing it is for that exact reason. I imagine my old TV (Samsung LN46B750) must have had about the same input lag and I am just used to it
post #319 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post

See, another example of some saying its horrible, some saying its fine. One gamer says its fine, go get it, another says if you game do not get it. Still gonna hold off until more info is out there.
If you've tested monitors for input lag before, this will tell you all need to know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXMsmQqV6zs#t=0m30s
post #320 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlasmax View Post

I had to jump into this thread as I have been following it for many days now. I bought the 50st60 about 3 weeks ago and INSTANTLY noticed visible input lag, specifically on first person shooters (anything that demands quick twitch movements and low input lag). I tried every setting to eliminate this lag but couldn't find ANY fix for it. I am SO VERY disappointed that the "better" st60 panel has significant input lag and at first I refused to believe it. I thought to myself, "Wow, how could everything be perfect about this st60 except high input lag?" I wanted to wait and see if it could be fixed with a firmware upgrade after reading earlier in this thread, or something to that extent, but I just don't have the luxury to sit around and wait while the return policy got closer and closer to being over. So after reading Midkay's posts (and watching his videos) and several others about how responsive the lower end model s60 is, I decided to take my xbox up to best buy and actually test it while I returned my 50st60. Right away I noticed how responsive the s60 was and it didn't take me but 20 seconds after testing it to pull the trigger on the 50s60.

Can you share your thoughts on the PQ difference between the S and the ST? I'm guessing its not too much different.
post #321 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! 
Oh well, have it shipped & try.. if it doesn't pass, ship it back out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post


No! Not with the return shipping fees some stores charge. Abt was going to charge me $300 to send back a panel if it was defective. It's worth the little bit of up-charge to pay tax and get it across town in this case.

I didn't see where he said he was set on buying from abt exclusively. Either way, no I would never buy somewhere that has unfair return policies if there was a problem... even if defective?! A.B.T. is O.U.T.
post #322 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINDW4LL View Post

Can you share your thoughts on the PQ difference between the S and the ST? I'm guessing its not too much different.

I am actually very impressed with the picture quality so far with the s60 as I just set it up earlier this afternoon. The blacks seem to be just as black as the st60 of course MINUS the fact that the st60 had the anti glare filter which added a feeling of better blacks. Buzzing seems to be about the same from the st60 from what I can audibly hear. Really the only main difference I can see is the reflective screen, HOWEVER, it really isn't a problem at all for me since it is in my bedroom (plantation shutter windows on the left and right of the screen can be easily closed). From what Midkay was saying, the blacks seemed to get better over time as the plasma is broken in! I can't emphasize enough how it is a night and day difference in input lag from the st60 to the s60. EVERYTHING about the st60 regarding picture quality was amazing when I used it for the past 3 weeks, MINUS the horrific input lag issue. I loved EVERY aspect of the st60 in terms of PQ! The s60 is so amazing for the money but what really led me to my decision was bring my xbox INTO the store and physically testing it! I found it to be wonderfully responsive, which is the primary thing I want in a TV since I game more than I do ANYTHING else.

Watching this video explains it all! It truly does speak for itself in showing how bad the input lag truly is on the st60 UNFORTUNATELY! ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXMsmQqV6zs&list=UU9aR7PiRJS08tgM4kXbMLBQ&index=2 )

-Jordan
post #323 of 1308
Sounds about right. So even without the displaylag.com tests, I think it's pretty safe at this point to draw the preliminary conclusion. The ST60 input lag, with game mode on, is 5 frames. (approx 70-80ms). This is just outside the range that would be considered "acceptable" in just about every place I've read. 2 frames is good. 3 is fine. 4 is pushing it, but only the hardcore might notice. So we're just past that line.

Some will notice, some just won't. It can be gotten used to over time. I'm still just really torn, cause I want that PQ, but I don't have the money to spring for the VT60...not for a long time. This whole issue has just caught me off guard and left me disappointed after many months of anticipation for this particular set and the rave reviews it's now getting. And you've got avj over at the other forum basically saying they won' touch the issue cause they need to worry about big issues. And here you've got people returning this set, not buying it, emailing, complaining, etc. When does this cross the threshold into a big issue?! Frustrating!
post #324 of 1308
Thread Starter 
I don't know, I mean with 100's of millions of gaming consoles out there and HTPC's on top of it, why would they ignore the issue? The TV has great PQ, no doubt about that, but to simply say input lag isn't an issue is ridiculous. I feel bad for anyone who has to play a motion control game on this TV either via Wii, Xbox Kinect, or PS Move. It already feels bad enough that the mouse cursor feels like it's always lagging behind my movements, but I can't imagine playing those kinds of games on this set.
post #325 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

I know you guys are really anxious to find out about the ST60, will try my best to have it as soon as possible. Have a flu right now, but I'll make that TV my first priority.

looking forward to your results. thanks fourwude! smile.gif
post #326 of 1308
So I finally got around to playing Black Ops 2 on the 60ST60. It's pretty much the only games I play here lately & I wouldn't consider myself an avid gamer, more casual. I'm coming from a Samsung 58B860, that seemed to have a fairly low lag response time. Here is the first sign that I noticed that there was quite a bit more lag than normal. I normally use a controller setting of 4 on the Samsung, it may sound low, but it was all that was needed, it felt responsive enough. Now on the the ST60, in order to match that same level of responsiveness, I had to set the sensitivity to 10. However, by doing this now I was over correcting & just spraying everywhere. biggrin.gif I definitely felt at a disadvantage the first few games I played. Running & gunning was not effective, hell for me, not even possible. I never got the jump. I always lost the battle when being confronted at the same time. Using a submachine gun & laser site. So, the lag is pretty bad. Unplayable, no. Noticeable, yes. If you care about gaming, well I can't recommend it. If you are a casual gamer & care about picture quality, you'll learn to deal with it. I take the latter stance.
post #327 of 1308
Hi everyone. This is my first post and I joined AVS just to ask this question:
Has anyone tried to uninstall the VIERA Apps? I saw this answer from Panasonic about the ST50:
Question
How do I uninstall an app on my Smart Viera ST50?
I want to uninstall an app that keeps crashing. How do I do this?

Answer
To completely remove apps from the TV will require a reset procedure. You can hide the app by accessing the VIERA Connect Settings app and then hide the app.

The reset procedure will wipe all current settings.

1. Television power should be on.
2. Hold [VOL -] ON TELEVISION & [OK] ON REMOTE for more than five seconds.
3. "SELF-CHECK" will display.
4. Unplug power cord for over 30 seconds.
PANASONIC EXPERT


Now I do not own this set but would like to. I won't buy it if the input lag isn't resolved. Can anyone test this procedure or know if this will help input lag? I read somewhere that the amount of apps installed and possibly running may be a factor. Can anyone confirm? Thanks everyone.
post #328 of 1308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by llKite View Post

Hi everyone. This is my first post and I joined AVS just to ask this question:
Has anyone tried to uninstall the VIERA Apps? I saw this answer from Panasonic about the ST50:
Question
How do I uninstall an app on my Smart Viera ST50?
I want to uninstall an app that keeps crashing. How do I do this?

Answer
To completely remove apps from the TV will require a reset procedure. You can hide the app by accessing the VIERA Connect Settings app and then hide the app.

The reset procedure will wipe all current settings.

1. Television power should be on.
2. Hold [VOL -] ON TELEVISION & [OK] ON REMOTE for more than five seconds.
3. "SELF-CHECK" will display.
4. Unplug power cord for over 30 seconds.
PANASONIC EXPERT


Now I do not own this set but would like to. I won't buy it if the input lag isn't resolved. Can anyone test this procedure or know if this will help input lag? I read somewhere that the amount of apps installed and possibly running may be a factor. Can anyone confirm? Thanks everyone.

I will test this later, but I think the App system is completely different.
post #329 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

So I finally got around to playing Black Ops 2 on the 60ST60. It's pretty much the only games I play here lately & I wouldn't consider myself an avid gamer, more casual. I'm coming from a Samsung 58B860, that seemed to have a fairly low lag response time. Here is the first sign that I noticed that there was quite a bit more lag than normal. I normally use a controller setting of 4 on the Samsung, it may sound low, but it was all that was needed, it felt responsive enough. Now on the the ST60, in order to match that same level of responsiveness, I had to set the sensitivity to 10. However, by doing this now I was over correcting & just spraying everywhere. biggrin.gif I definitely felt at a disadvantage the first few games I played. Running & gunning was not effective, hell for me, not even possible. I never got the jump. I always lost the battle when being confronted at the same time. Using a submachine gun & laser site. So, the lag is pretty bad. Unplayable, no. Noticeable, yes. If you care about gaming, well I can't recommend it. If you are a casual gamer & care about picture quality, you'll learn to deal with it. I take the latter stance.

This doesn't really make any sense. I'm not a CoD expert, but upping the controller setting in-game simply increases the turn speed. Input lag has absolutely nothing to do with this and if you were playing on a setting of 4 with your last TV, it's best to stay with that setting for the new one. Input lag is the response time it takes for an button input to display on the TV and has nothing to do with actual controller sensitivity. Also, you should test this in the single player, not online since internet lag can be a factor when playing online matches.
post #330 of 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan134 View Post

This doesn't really make any sense. I'm not a CoD expert, but upping the controller setting in-game simply increases the turn speed. Input lag has absolutely nothing to do with this and if you were playing on a setting of 4 with your last TV, it's best to stay with that setting for the new one. Input lag is the response time it takes for an button input to display on the TV and has nothing to do with actual controller sensitivity. Also, you should test this in the single player, not online since internet lag can be a factor when playing online matches.

Yes but if the input lags, then he has to make the motion faster right? You have to get to the end point faster (such as aiming at the guy) if the input lags more behind.

I had the same thought about deleting the apps when I read that BTW. Fingers totally crossed! However I'm afraid it'll be one of those things like a certain % of the processing power is pre dedicated to apps, and another (obviously small) slice for gaming, etc.

I don't know if I'm even in the ballpark on this one, but is there any way to do something like "overclock" the chip inside?
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