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Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 41

post #1201 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by degobah77 View Post

Ok, thanks, but I'll wait until someone else verifies it before me smile.gif

Definitely not a fan of having to power down the TV so ungracefully just to exit this menu.


I'm a fan of caution too.

The first time I messed around in a service menu on my big CRT was a little over 10 years. If I knew now that I was about to screw up all the geometry way back then all the while thinking I was fixing something (convergence) and that I would need months of learning and tweaking to undo it all, I definitely would not have gone in in the first place! Thankfully I ended up with a much better picture, so some consolation there. biggrin.gif
post #1202 of 13986
Can someone explain the 12.2 FL full field brightness readings in Chad's review? I have a calibration report for my 65VT50 the lists my brightness at 35fl for night and 48fl for day. I don't understand how they correlate with the figures in Chad's review of the VT60. Thanks.
post #1203 of 13986
post #1204 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

They seem to like it smile.gif

http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/panasonic-vt60-revisited

According to them it isn't as bright as last years vt50.
post #1205 of 13986
Great link dubusduck! Definitely agrees with CNET's initial assessment and sure it will do very well in today's shootout. smile.gif

Everything I've read the overall picture is plenty bright enough. Those in very bright rooms should probably look else where anyhow.

Very excited my VT60 is getting delivered today as a free replacement for my VT30 that failed. Sad when in died but I was blown away when BB said I would get a free VT60 and not the VT50. Also very excited that everything I've read and folks I talked to that own this awesome set is that it has an incredible picture right out of the box. I didn't like the VT30 until it was calibrated no matter how many said they could tweak it to satisfaction. I'm impressed that the before and after color pics by calibrators show the pre to be spot on color wise. Really incredible to get such a great picture right out of the box.
post #1206 of 13986
^What kind of warranty protection did you add to the original purchase to get that sweet upgrade?
post #1207 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

They seem to like it smile.gif

http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/panasonic-vt60-revisited
Slightly better BL measurement of 0.00175 in comparison to Cnet's, still no mention of 60 versus 96 hz modes.
post #1208 of 13986
With that test everything is starting to add up, they are sacrificing peak luminance for blacks. Tough choice for me, I am drawing a line in the sand that any future display has to be as bright as my Kuro and as black too. Only one of these has been achieved here. While I like the 8500, for me, since it is rather LCD like, I may as well go to an LCD, at least a good LCD. I want at least what the Kuro has on both ends of the spectrum, brightness and black levels. with some modern features too.
post #1209 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

With that test everything is starting to add up, they are sacrificing peak luminance for blacks. Tough choice for me, I am drawing a line in the sand that any future display has to be as bright as my Kuro and as black too. Only one of these has been achieved here. While I like the 8500, for me, since it is rather LCD like, I may as well go to an LCD, at least a good LCD. I want at least what the Kuro has on both ends of the spectrum, brightness and black levels. with some modern features too.
I understand the predicament. I would not be too upset by a slight drop because there are some bright scenes that when displayed on my Kuro in my preferred darkened environment sometimes hurt my eyes. wink.gif It will be interesting to see how negatively this affects any daytime viewing and if the AR filter on the ZT60 in particular can mitigate this to some extent. A good LCD...well, I'm pretty sure you need one of the more costlier (and nearing extinction) full-array LED models that can match and beat (with the caveat of artifacts that may or may not be visible to you) the Kuro.
post #1210 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I understand the predicament. I would not be too upset by a slight drop because there are some bright scenes that when displayed on my Kuro in my preferred darkened environment sometimes hurt my eyes. wink.gif It will be interesting to see how negatively this affects any daytime viewing and if the AR filter on the ZT60 in particular can mitigate this to some extent. A good LCD...well, I'm pretty sure you need one of the more costlier (and nearing extinction) full-array LED models that can match and beat (with the caveat of artifacts that may or may not be visible to you) the Kuro.

I need a display that can go from nighttime viewing( will be in the bedroom) to daylight football viewing. Was watching the Kuro last night and hell it can stand toe toe with my Sharp Elite, when I keep the brightness down some, they almost look quite similar, minus the differences in tech. I actually think the apparent peak luminance will be a little less on the ZT60 as opposed to the VT60, just because they are shooting for the best black levels. The only thing that will help the ZT is the better filter. We'll see how this works out. By LCD I meant a 65HX950, which I have a deposit on pending the outcome of the shootout which I will attend tomorrow.
post #1211 of 13986
Well, that is one of the full-array models to which I was referencing and since you already own a Sharp Elite, you are well accustomed to it. wink.gif That'd be unfortunate if the ZT60 has an even lower peak luminance than the VT60, though.
post #1212 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, that is one of the full-array models to which I was referencing and since you already own a Sharp Elite, you are well accustomed to it. wink.gif That'd be unfortunate if the ZT60 has an even lower peak luminance than the VT60, though.

The might be a deal breaker for me if the ZT has a lower peak brightness then the VT60.
post #1213 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^What kind of warranty protection did you add to the original purchase to get that sweet upgrade?

I just bought a 2 year warranty even though i typically don't but felt for some reason it would be worth the small price. Looks like i made a good call. BB said their policy is only to give the purchase price back to buy a new tv but the Geek Squad person told my wife over the phone that a new display would be 100% free. Good think my wife is detailed since she got the person's name & nicely asked if he could add comments in the computer on what was discussed. Not much BB could say with this in place. BB even prorated $60 back on the unused warranty. I don't agree with their policy of only providing the purchase price back since i bought the VT30 end of release and VT60 was just released so the VT60 would have cost me $800 more if just the purchase price was provided.

For whatever reason, BB said they couldn't get the board that failed even after waiting a week to have it shipped to my house. Seems crazy they can't get boards for a display less yhan 2 years. Sure they repair it later & resell or maybe not since Panny is getting out of plasmas so maybe they are slowly cutting support in areas like this.

Since i had to wait over 2 hours for BB to figure out computer issues with the replacement, got an awesome deal on a 4 year warranty. This was way too expensive before so glad it worked out since it seems displays can have issues right after the 1 year warranty expires, 4 years will be great to have with time for OLED technology to really mature.
post #1214 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

With that test everything is starting to add up, they are sacrificing peak luminance for blacks. Tough choice for me, I am drawing a line in the sand that any future display has to be as bright as my Kuro and as black too. Only one of these has been achieved here. While I like the 8500, for me, since it is rather LCD like, I may as well go to an LCD, at least a good LCD. I want at least what the Kuro has on both ends of the spectrum, brightness and black levels. with some modern features too.

I agree about sacrificing the peak luminance for black level. Look at the peak luminance compared to the other panels in the article. The VT60 can not get as bright as the VT50 or ST60. While the contrast ratio for the VT60 is the best of the group, the ratio is based on how dark it can get. Sort of like saying a speaker's bass is phenomenal, but the highs are rolled off. Look at the peak luminance for the F8500, more than double that of the VT50 and just as dark.

I disagree about going with an LCD over the F8500. If maximum peak luminance is your thing, then go with an LCD. I can tell you from experience that the F8500 can get almost as bright as an LCD, but with much better black levels and a much better picture overall. Watching Tron on the F8500 with the standard setting, you would think you were watching an Elite level LCD. That is how bright the F8500 can get while preserving black levels. However, the F8500 is expensive!!!

I'm waiting to see how the shootout goes on the ZT60. Regardless, 2013 is a great year for plasma. While I prefer the F8500 over the VT60, I do admit I would like to put a VT60 in my house and watch some blurays at night to see just how black the VT60 can get. If only money grew on trees.
post #1215 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Can someone explain the 12.2 FL full field brightness readings in Chad's review? I have a calibration report for my 65VT50 the lists my brightness at 35fl for night and 48fl for day. I don't understand how they correlate with the figures in Chad's review of the VT60. Thanks.

That is a full white screen, which is severely limited by ABL.
The numbers in your reports and the calibration report I made of the review set were made with window patterns. That's a smaller white box in the middle of the screen that is not nearly as limited by ABL.
post #1216 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

I agree about sacrificing the peak luminance for black level. Look at the peak luminance compared to the other panels in the article. The VT60 can not get as bright as the VT50 or ST60. While the contrast ratio for the VT60 is the best of the group, the ratio is based on how dark it can get. Sort of like saying a speaker's bass is phenomenal, but the highs are rolled off. Look at the peak luminance for the F8500, more than double that of the VT50 and just as dark.

I disagree about going with an LCD over the F8500. If maximum peak luminance is your thing, then go with an LCD. I can tell you from experience that the F8500 can get almost as bright as an LCD, but with much better black levels and a much better picture overall. Watching Tron on the F8500 with the standard setting, you would think you were watching an Elite level LCD. That is how bright the F8500 can get while preserving black levels. However, the F8500 is expensive!!!

I'm waiting to see how the shootout goes on the ZT60. Regardless, 2013 is a great year for plasma. While I prefer the F8500 over the VT60, I do admit I would like to put a VT60 in my house and watch some blurays at night to see just how black the VT60 can get. If only money grew on trees.

If it was my primary display in the living room I wold most likely choose the the 8500 ,since it seems to be more versatile than the Panny Plasmas. But I for my bedroom set I am looking for the best black levels, but I a want to give up peak luminance either. The LCD I am considering just happens to have one of the best at black levels and the last of a dying breed. It seems that end of videophile (fully dimming & backlit) LCD's is coming to an end. So I have choice to either grab one of them or look at some really good plasmas, ironically...... before they die out also.
post #1217 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

If it was my primary display in the living room I wold most likely choose the the 8500 ,since it seems to be more versatile than the Panny Plasmas. But I for my bedroom set I am looking for the best black levels, but I a want to give up peak luminance either. The LCD I am considering just happens to have one of the best at black levels and the last of a dying breed. It seems that end of videophile (fully dimming & backlit) LCD's is coming to an end. So I have choice to either grab one of them or look at some really good plasmas, ironically...... before they die out also.

I understand completely. I had a chance to buy an open box 60" Elite, but the Elite was more than a 64" F8500. Had I been able to talk the store down on the price of their Elite, I would have bought it. Not a big deal as I talked myself into getting a 64" TV biggrin.gif Just waiting to see how the shootout goes.
post #1218 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Can someone explain the 12.2 FL full field brightness readings in Chad's review? I have a calibration report for my 65VT50 the lists my brightness at 35fl for night and 48fl for day. I don't understand how they correlate with the figures in Chad's review of the VT60. Thanks.

Full field means a completely 100% white screen (100% window size, 100% stim/intensity), which fully activates the ABL on plasmas. Your calibration report for the 65VT50 shows max luminance with usually a much smaller 8% to 20% window size at 100% stim/intensity. Calibrations are done with smaller windows so that ABL won't dominate and affect the adjustments greatly, and are more true to what the average levels are on most movies. Since the APL of movies are rarely at 100%--or even above 40%--full field brightness measurements on plasmas are basically for curiosity sake as to how aggressive the ABL is on any particular panel. Keep in mind that once you apply a gamma curve, the APL drops even further.

Here are some APL charts by Tom Huffman for some movies from a different AVS thread (before gamma adjustment):
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

More data.

Shindler's List
# of Frames: 11,288
Ave. APL 22.4%



Casablanca
# of Frames: 6,130
Ave. APL 26.1%



Jaws
# of Frames: 7,377
Ave. APL 30.3%



Alien
# of frames: 6628
Average APL: 17.9%
post #1219 of 13986
For those not wanting such a technical explanation about the "brightness of the picture" smile.gif, I was just told that someone that thoroughly broke in their VT60 that the contrast at 50 (in a completely dark room) is as bright as his VT50 was at 90. Good for me to know since I had my now removed VT30 at 100 contrast and that was via a very good ISF calibrator. He mentioned wanting to go a couple notches past 100% if he was able to. Good the VT60 is in a much higher level.

My VT60 was just installed!

Can't wait to check out the inky blacks and awesome PQ and right out of the box!

Enjoy!

Cheers!!!
post #1220 of 13986
Congrats, you'll love the new set! Still can't believe how good the out of the box settings are.
post #1221 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrobert View Post

For those not wanting such a technical explanation about the "brightness of the picture" smile.gif, I was just told that someone that thoroughly broke in their VT60 that the contrast at 50 (in a completely dark room) is as bright as his VT50 was at 90. Good for me to know since I had my now removed VT30 at 100 contrast and that was via a very good ISF calibrator. He mentioned wanting to go a couple notches past 100% if he was able to. Good the VT60 is in a much higher level.

My VT60 was just installed!

Can't wait to check out the inky blacks and awesome PQ and right out of the box!

Enjoy!

Cheers!!!

Congrats its a great set i have about 250 - 300 hrs on mine so far .. how are your fans ? i hope you scored a quiet set unlike my turbines lol
post #1222 of 13986
Thanks Kamouflage and JonThomasDesgins!

Good to get others feeling the same way.

Hopefully it will help those looking at this and other threads on deciding what display is best to buy.



JonThomasDesigns,

Actually my VT60 was just installed but I'm still at work. Hopefully my fans aren't turbines. smile.gif
Guess I will find out soon enough.

Cheers!
post #1223 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin M Fletche View Post

I found a article online, which indicates pressing the "R" button on the remote will exit the service menu, but I've not tried it myself.
Well pressing or holding down the R button did nothing, but holding down the Exit button resulted in the TV power cycling itself.
post #1224 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin M Fletche View Post

Well pressing or holding down the R button did nothing, but holding down the Exit button resulted in the TV power cycling itself.
Do you mean it powered off and back on and everything was normal?
post #1225 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Do you mean it powered off and back on and everything was normal?
Yes.
post #1226 of 13986
So what's up with the much touted shootout? Where did it take place, if it has indeed taken place, and where can we see the results?
Edited by sahmen - 5/11/13 at 4:06am
post #1227 of 13986
Results won't be in for a few days. You will probably have members who were there chime in before the final results can be tallied.
post #1228 of 13986
Results not in, but bottom line so far: VT60 and ZT60 have identical MLL at .0013. The ZT60 can only put of 30 fl while the VT60 can put out 35fl (both calibrated, of course).
post #1229 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

So what's up with the much touted shout-out? Where did it take place, if it has indeed taken place, and where can we see the results?

The final day is tomorrow, well get feedback ect then. Today was more of a "base" levvel showing motion, color, white and black.....Votes may take a week to tabulate, but we should have an idea tomorrow....

Check out the shootout thread here, in the Flat Panel Discussion section or watch the livestream....Once results are posted they will find thier way here quickly.
post #1230 of 13986
I was going to wait until Monday to post my initial thought on my new VT60 that was installed today but decided to post now since I am simply blown away by the awesome PQ. Seriously for those that buy this display without looking at some of the other top displays over the past 2-3 years, they might not appreciate the step up the PQ is with the new VT60 series. But if you have owned some of the best or waiting to finally get one that is good enough, I seriously don't know why anyone would wait at this point.

I know folks have said the PQ out of the box is outstanding but I really wasn't expecting the wow factor that I'm experiencing as I jump from one HD movie to another off of Dish HD, haven't even looked at blu-ray yet. Some said the VT30 (one that I owned which died) had pretty black blacks. Even thought it was pretty good, the blackness of a HD movie during black scenes didn't really match the top and bottom black bars even though some said it did. Not sure if their display was different but there was a difference on mine. Now the blacks are very inky like they should be and the shadow detail is just amazing. I actually was sucked into each movie with the level of sharpness and detail with the picture taking on a close to 3D quality I have never experienced before and I owned a Pioneer Elite CRT RPTV so I know what inky blacks should look like. Also the color is spot on. So far I've barely tweaked the color setting with changing the THX Cinema bright room that was chosen by BB to the THX Cinema. I definitely could tell how some would like the bright room setting especially if no control of outside light. I have blinds on all my windows but still get indirect light but still felt the shadow detail and overall PQ was better with the Cinema setting (no bright room).

I'm sure folks will keep debating how the VT60 is not as brihgt as an LCD or the Samsung 8500 but the level of sharpness, detail, inky blacks and shadow detail on the VT60 is simply mesmorizing., no exaggeration! The more I watched, the more I was drawn into the picture like never before.

I would suggest not to just get stuck on the brightness issue but watch HD content long enough to see how amazing this display is.

The only thing I can criticize is the mute symbol that stays on the display when mute is pressed. Not sure the reason why Panny would do this. I have a very good sound system for home theater but watch enough TV without always turning it on for everything. No biggie, guess I just have to turn the volume down to 0 when using the TV speakers. Which by the way, has very good sound for those that care. I heard the sound faces the front instead of the back which makes a big difference. I didn't like the sound from the VT30 that much at all but felt is wasy only okay.

Oh, my wife was amazed at the PQ and she doesn't really care about that kind of stuff. The PQ is a significant jump up from previous VT's.

I have no doubts the VT60 will do very well in the shootout currently going on.

I can't wait to see how my display keeps improving as it gets thoroughly burned in. PQ is simply amazing.

So far my fans are very quiet, have to stand right at them to even hear them running.

Cheers!
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