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Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 116

post #3451 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimolaoha View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I have a Yamaha with ARC. ARC is finicky and provides no value other than saving you from running an optical cable. I already had one and unlike ARC it works properly all the time.
Are you using the Netflix built into your tv? There should be a description that tells you if it is HD and 5.1.

Gotcha. But I can't seem to get the VT60 to push any 5.1 through the optical cable. I've just signed up for Netflix and will test this evening, but I have streamed several titles (Avengers, Hunger Games, etc. through the Viera app for Amazon Prime, and could not get 5.1 to push (even though playing the very same title from the TiVo did indeed push 5.1). I assumed ARC would allow this, but it sounds from your post that ARC adds no additional value if you already have pulled the optical cable from the VT60 to the AVR. I just want to stream Viera apps in multichannel and am wondering why I can't.
Bond 007 is making a good point. If you are using applications built into your TV's software like Netflix and Amazon then either ARC or S/PDIF optical should work. From what I understand, without any personal experience, ARC can be problematic.

If the applications like Netflix are running in a Blu-ray player that is connected directly to the TV, then I wouldn't expect to get 5.1 as an output from the TV. I can't explain the logic of the movie industry's copy-write position on this issue. Some seem to believe that they do not have a position, and it's a random failure on the part of TV manufacturers.
post #3452 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimolaoha View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You never mentioned Amazon until now. You were asking about Netflix. When you are asking for help you should be specific.

Yep, my bad.
I may have indeed condemned the VT60's audio push capabilities in their entirety because of limitations within just one of its apps. But thanks for your help.
Maybe I don't need a new AVR with Audio Return after all, unless the new codecs alone are worth the cost of admission (versus those in my 10 year old Onkyo).
When I suggested a new AVR, it was primarily for HDMI switching. smile.gif

For me, attaching all external sources via HDMI to our AVR, and then attaching the AVR to the TV via HDMI has worked trouble free. If I was using something like the Netflix application from the TV, I would go with the optical out for audio. On the other hand, if I did get involved with streaming, I would probably use a dedicated external device attached to the AVR by HDMI.

There is probably something in your setup that's messing up getting your internal audio back to your AVR.
post #3453 of 13986
CSIG1001, whatever that means, has made darn sure that anyone trying to discuss the VT60 will fail.

Tell us, Sir, how is it that the VT60 garnered so many glowing reviews this year and won the pro shootout vote?

You enjoy your uncalibrated panel (F8500 or whatever) and I know for sure I'm enjoying my ChadB calibrated VT60 both with the ISF Day and ISF Night. For anyone wondering, my experience with pro calibration recently has made such a large impression that I'd never buy a tv again unless I'd budgeted for calitbration.

And finally, the VT60 will measure better in nearly every respect. And, of course, it looks better too.
post #3454 of 13986
Alright guys, please update your block lists and get back to discussing products instead of each other.
post #3455 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

CSIG1001, whatever that means, has made darn sure that anyone trying to discuss the VT60 will fail.

Tell us, Sir, how is it that the VT60 garnered so many glowing reviews this year and won the pro shootout vote
?

You enjoy your uncalibrated panel (F8500 or whatever) and I know for sure I'm enjoying my ChadB calibrated VT60 both with the ISF Day and ISF Night. For anyone wondering, my experience with pro calibration recently has made such a large impression that I'd never buy a tv again unless I'd budgeted for calitbration.

And finally, the VT60 will measure better in nearly every respect. And, of course, it looks better too.

Didn't the f8500 win the shootout in general? The vt60 has better light output/contrast/sharpness than the f8500? I haven't read this anywhere yet, would you mind linking me the article where you read this at? Thanks..
post #3456 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post

Didn't the f8500 win the shootout in general? The vt60 has better light output/contrast/sharpness than the f8500? I haven't read this anywhere yet, would you mind linking me the article where you read this at? Thanks..

Yes the F8500 won the shootout because it was the better overall looking set in the room which provided a better picture to the eyes of the audience.
post #3457 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post

Didn't the f8500 win the shootout in general? The vt60 has better light output/contrast/sharpness than the f8500? I haven't read this anywhere yet, would you mind linking me the article where you read this at? Thanks..

The Samsung won the audience vote. The Panasonic won the pro calibrators vote. The Samsung is brighter out of the box. Nobody is disputing that.

Ill take the years of experience and expertise the pro calibrators have.
post #3458 of 13986
Light out put no contrast ratio yes the vt60 is better by a long shot and it maintains that contrast ratio despite apl changes the 8500 contrast ratio degrades as apl increases

Sharpness is subjective
post #3459 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Yes the F8500 won the shootout because it was the better overall looking set in the room which provided a better picture to the eyes of the audience.
It won primarily because of its day mode vt and zt won all the other categories
post #3460 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimolaoha View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Outputting multi channel audio from any external source connected to a TV, like a DVR or disk player, is not permitted for copy-write reason.

Good AVRs can be found for around $300 if you go with the previous year's models. smile.gif

Thanks for your thoughts.

If I plug the optical cable from the DVR's (TiVo) optical OUT directly into the optical IN of my AV amp, I get the Dolby Digital signal fine.
As I understand it, that's exactly how it should work. The only restriction that I've referred to is output from the TV when the source is external to the TV -- not the TV's tuner, it's USB ports, or it's own applications like Netflix.
Quote:
It is only when I insert the VT60 into the chain that the audio signal is dumbed down. So I'm not understanding how the copyright limitation is the issue here, but I've been known to be thick. Can you please elaborate?
Note the bold correction to my post that I've inserted. It's absence may have caused some misunderstanding. eek.gif
Quote:
I'm also considering your wise suggestion to replace the otherwise good (but 10 year old) Onkyo with a more modern and capable (with HDMI) amp, but want to be sure that it will accomplish my goal of digital HD Audio (Dolby-AC3, DTS7.1, DSD/Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD master Audio, etc.) from all source material. Any thoughts here?

Thanks again.
As I said in reply to one of your later posts, I upgraded out AVR for greater HDMI switching capabilities. If you have an older AVR with HDMI, which we had, you can still get lossless audio codec performance from a Blu-ray player. Going from two HDMI inputs to six HDMI inputs let me take a HDMI switch out of our setup. Any Denon, or Onkyo 7.1 receiver from the past couple of years will give you what you're looking for. I always buy at least one year behind the current model.
post #3461 of 13986
Look at the calibration reports specifically chad b and his review of vt60 it's all right there
post #3462 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimolaoha View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

This isn't a topic I've ever followed, but I am aware that some owners can be confused between identifying a signal from their TV to an AVR if the AVR has the ability to simulated surround sound from a stereo source.

I suppose one way to collect valid data would to complain to all the major TV manufacturers and see how they reply. Given a Blu-ray player connected to the TV with HDMI that only produces stereo audio through the TV's optical output -- why no surround sound?

Thanks for all the input from my original query. Good thoughts.
That said, am I to take away from all of this that regardless of what equipment I have or upgrade to, I'm just NOT going to get HD audio from the Viera Apps of my new TV, i.e. Netflix is always going to be 2 channel, Amazon Instant Video / Prime Video is always going to be 2 channel, etc.?
No. There is no restriction on internal sources from your TV. Those sources are the TV's tuner, the TV's USB ports, and the TV's applications like Netflix.
Quote:
Cause if that's the case, I might as well watch these sources from my networked smart blu-ray player or the TiVo instead, both of which pass HD audio, right??
Thanks
The distinction, as far as restrictions go, only concerns external sources that are connected to the TV. Many people, with HDMI AVRs, connect no external sources to their TV. If that's your situation, but without HDMI, then you just need to discover why you aren't getting surround sound from your TV's Amazon app. I didn't know that Amazon was outputting anything but stereo. I understand that Netflix does, in some cases, output surround sound. Maybe that's been the problem all along -- no surround sound from Amazon. wink.gif
post #3463 of 13986
Love the VT60, set gets as bright as it needs to be and consistent deep blacks. No floating blacks here.
post #3464 of 13986
F8500 FTW !!!

Sorry - they made me do it eek.gif
post #3465 of 13986
Pie you're cool just some others don't know how to play nice

Live long and prosper smile.gif
post #3466 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Light output is big factor, in bright rooms. If you actually look at the score chart, notice where the biggest point differential is? Because the F8500 was calibrated to a higher light output, it scored much higher in the Day mode category. Like I said before, calibrate to the same light output and you'll have a different result.

I always understood that all the TV's in the shootout were calibrated to 35fL.
How could you do a thorough eye comparison if they were not?
post #3467 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

F8500 FTW !!!

Sorry - they made me do it eek.gif


Thats was funny
post #3468 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Bond 007 is making a good point. If you are using applications built into your TV's software like Netflix and Amazon then either ARC or S/PDIF optical should work. From what I understand, without any personal experience, ARC can be problematic.

If the applications like Netflix are running in a Blu-ray player that is connected directly to the TV, then I wouldn't expect to get 5.1 as an output from the TV. I can't explain the logic of the movie industry's copy-write position on this issue. Some seem to believe that they do not have a position, and it's a random failure on the part of TV manufacturers.

Thanks. I'm still working through this.

Though I thought it logical that I'd get 5.1 from peripherals that were simply pushed THROUGH the TV (so that I wouldn't have to constantly switch optical IN sources on the AVR), it seems that this is not the case. It also seems that - even on the TV's own internal apps - 5.1 may be hit or miss (even if 5.1 is indeed pushed when using the corresponding app, i.e. Amazon, from a peripheral, i.e. Blu-ray or TiVo).

So I'm thinking it best to just have Opticals 1 and 2 IN to the AVR from the TiVo and the TV, respectively, and a digital coax IN from the Blu-ray, and then simply switch the inputs (set up as different activities on the Harmony remote) according to peripheral usage. If the TV's Netflix app will indeed push 5.1, I'll use it. Otherwise, both the TiVo and Blu-ray have the app too, and they have a wired network connection. In any case, any sound indigenous to the TV itself will need to come through the Optical, as I have the volume set to Zero (because there seems to be NO WAY to disable it!).

So -- given all that -- what, then, would be the advantage in this scenario of HDMI switching, if any? And do you think a newer AVR with a little more power and the new codecs (Dolby True Audio, Pro Logic IIx, DTS master audio, etc.) will provide a substantively richer experience over a 10 year old Onkyo offering only the codecs extant at that time? I'm looking at the Sony STR-DH740 to replace my Onkyo RT-500. The power toggle on the Onkyo is a bit wonky (intermittently on then immediate off), so that may also point to a new AVR.

Thanks
post #3469 of 13986
Like I said, I have the same problem. Here is my setup to get around my AVR not supporting 3D and to get audio from the smart TV.

post #3470 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Try using a 2% or maybe a 5% pattern window. The smaller the window the less APL will affect the out come.
Try using your meters in off screen mode when profiling, stagger the meter distance meaning pull your I1pro back about 3" or 4" more than your color meter.
The bigger the read area of the meter the more info your software has to use.
Try hitting around 32 FtL as a min, up to 35FtL.

ss

Thanks, ss. But I've been doing this a bit longer than you. Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm just trying to establish a basis for a discussion. There is no hostility on my part since your suggestions may help some newbies with no technical background.

WRT the 32-35 ftL: Some of us have eyes that cannot take that level in the dark. That's why there is no specification for maximum output.

Larry
post #3471 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

Like I said, I have the same problem. Here is my setup to get around my AVR not supporting 3D and to get audio from the smart TV.

Thanks. This is helpful.
I gather you have TiVo, XMBC(?) and PS3 as HDMI switched through the Onkyo and then sent to the VT60's HDMI 1 input.
The output from your Blu-ray is bypassing the Onkyo and going straight to VT60's HDMI 2 input.
Smart TV Viera apps and 3D are coming to your Onkyo via Optical from the VT60 and Blu-ray, respectively.
Do i have this right?
post #3472 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimolaoha View Post

Thanks. This is helpful.
I gather you have TiVo, XMBC(?) and PS3 as HDMI switched through the Onkyo and then sent to the VT60's HDMI 1 input.
The output from your Blu-ray is bypassing the Onkyo and going straight to VT60's HDMI 2 input.
Smart TV Viera apps and 3D are coming to your Onkyo via Optical from the VT60 and Blu-ray, respectively.
Do i have this right?

yep that is correct.

My 3D bluray is actually my PS3 too. Just bought a HDMI switch, hoping it works so I can still use it for high quality audio for 2D then downgrade to DD/toslink for 3d.

XBMC

http://xbmc.org/

using this for HW
http://www.raspbmc.com/
post #3473 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I always understood that all the TV's in the shootout were calibrated to 35fL.
How could you do a thorough eye comparison if they were not?
I wasn't at the shootout. But I recall the calibrators say that the F8500 was calibrated higher than the Panasonics (I believe 40fL vs 30/35fL?).
post #3474 of 13986
hard to get any real data from this years shootout. Was a bit gimmicky as the 'results' were simply the votes. For example, just look at last year's data (top link)

http://www.google.com/search?q=value+electronics+2012+contrast+ratio&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=


Good luck finding anything as objective as those types of measurements for this year's.
post #3475 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post


Well, now you've been presented with a lot of statements from multiple people who contradict you, including skeptics who proved themselves wrong in threads dedicated to this subject. Your information must be pretty solid to suggest all these people may have misinterpreted their AVRs' indicators, but you haven't even offered where you got it from.
This is clearly an important issue for you.

It's become sort of an experiment.
Quote:
It's not something that I use or am hampered by because out TV has no speakers or apps. The source for my explanation comes from other members that I've found to be reliable in the past. Please just ignore me if I continue to offer the same explanation. redface.gif

Why would you want to continue to propagate clearly wrong information? (Rhetorical question.)
post #3476 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimolaoha View Post

Though I thought it logical that I'd get 5.1 from peripherals that were simply pushed THROUGH the TV (so that I wouldn't have to constantly switch optical IN sources on the AVR), it seems that this is not the case.
That's right.
Quote:
It also seems that - even on the TV's own internal apps - 5.1 may be hit or miss (even if 5.1 is indeed pushed when using the corresponding app, i.e. Amazon, from a peripheral, i.e. Blu-ray or TiVo).
The internal sources, TV Tuner, TV USB ports, and Netflix like applications, should all output more than stereo if the source has surround audio. The only way to get those results from your player or your TiVo is to go through your AVR for audio. Again, my impression is that Amazon isn't outputting 5.1, and 5.1 sources at Netflix are a small minority of their streaming content.
Quote:
So I'm thinking it best to just have Opticals 1 and 2 IN to the AVR from the TiVo and the TV, respectively, and a digital coax IN from the Blu-ray, and then simply switch the inputs (set up as different activities on the Harmony remote) according to peripheral usage. If the TV's Netflix app will indeed push 5.1, I'll use it. Otherwise, both the TiVo and Blu-ray have the app too, and they have a wired network connection. In any case, any sound indigenous to the TV itself will need to come through the Optical, as I have the volume set to Zero (because there seems to be NO WAY to disable it!).
Is your TV hard wired to the Internet or is it wireless? This setup should work for you but you're going to need to figure out why you're not getting surround sound out from the TV's Netflix.
Quote:
So -- given all that -- what, then, would be the advantage in this scenario of HDMI switching, if any?
Clean cable setup, easier control of all audio sources, and lossless audio from Blu-ray disks are the main advantages. Why do you prefer to do your streaming from the TV? Many people use the Roku or Apple TV as stand alone streaming devices.
Quote:
And do you think a newer AVR with a little more power and the new codecs (Dolby True Audio, Pro Logic IIx, DTS master audio, etc.) will provide a substantively richer experience over a 10 year old Onkyo offering only the codecs extant at that time? I'm looking at the Sony STR-DH740 to replace my Onkyo RT-500. The power toggle on the Onkyo is a bit wonky (intermittently on then immediate off), so that may also point to a new AVR.
Unless your current AVR is underpowered for your room and speakers, then an increase in real power won't make much difference. The Sony seems to have a lot of features for the price. Sony may be using an inflated way to produce high power numbers. If you're interested in 3D that would be an advantage. Don't expect anything from the 4K pass through feature. At the moment it's mostly hype.
Edited by htwaits - 7/16/13 at 4:19pm
post #3477 of 13986
To recap......I've had my VT for about 2 months. Problems I'm having, flickering/brightnees during sporting events especially hockey games when action on rink.
Second and much worse. Any time scene revolves around dark or very dimly lit scenes picture at any given time grains out in the dark areas.
A lot of you know a lot more about calibrating than I do. Do any of my problems sound like they could be corrected with this?
Here's an example. Yesterday watched the latest Die Hard. About an hour into the movie they're in a car, it's raining and there having a conversation while driving.
It's at night so it's pretty dark. The whole time the scene is dark, the areas that are dark totally grain out. Almost unwatchable. .
Last night watched a concert I saved on my DVR. Concert is in doors and dark. Many times the picture just unloaded to thisn horrible grainy mess. I want to make sure you understand
that this isn't just sligtly noticable. It's really bad. In fact watching the concert for the first time on this set showed how bad the picture can really get.
If any body out there is experiencing any of the similar problems I'm stuck with I would really appreciated some feed back. Any body that might have a suggestion, I'm listening. This just can't be
how the picture is supposed to look.
post #3478 of 13986
This thread seems to have devolved into the type of dicussion I'm not used to reading on this forum. Either that or I just don't read enough.
post #3479 of 13986
I have been banned for much less than some of the posts here. Im amazed that the mod simply says to update your ignore lists. Just goes to show that you cant count on fairness. It is entirely up to the mods. Everyone should keep that in mind.
Hopefully I wont get banned for this post.
post #3480 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by 440michael View Post

To recap......I've had my VT for about 2 months. Problems I'm having, flickering/brightnees during sporting events especially hockey games when action on rink.
Second and much worse. Any time scene revolves around dark or very dimly lit scenes picture at any given time grains out in the dark areas.
A lot of you know a lot more about calibrating than I do. Do any of my problems sound like they could be corrected with this?
Here's an example. Yesterday watched the latest Die Hard. About an hour into the movie they're in a car, it's raining and there having a conversation while driving.
It's at night so it's pretty dark. The whole time the scene is dark, the areas that are dark totally grain out. Almost unwatchable. .
Last night watched a concert I saved on my DVR. Concert is in doors and dark. Many times the picture just unloaded to thisn horrible grainy mess. I want to make sure you understand
that this isn't just sligtly noticable. It's really bad. In fact watching the concert for the first time on this set showed how bad the picture can really get.
If any body out there is experiencing any of the similar problems I'm stuck with I would really appreciated some feed back. Any body that might have a suggestion, I'm listening. This just can't be
how the picture is supposed to look.


its supposed to look that bad.

I think you might want to look into a good visio LCD. Have heard great things about those recently. You'll likely save a lot of money as well.

Goodluck!
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