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Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 167

post #4981 of 13986
LOL

If you call magnolia I'm sure they'll be reasonable; I'd bet it'd be a whole lot less effort than joining the forum to go on your "campaign".
post #4982 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

LOL It took you until after the return date to figure out this tv is the worst tv on the planet?! Oh well...
Very odd. I play PC and Xbox games on this TV and the games look nothing short of amazing. On the Xbox at the beginning of a game it usually asks you to increase the brightness until you can very faintly see a certain image. I increase the brightness a little and I'm good to go. Playing games on a 65" TV is awesome! TV shows might not look as good due to how they were recorded, but 1080p movies look amazing as well.

I'll be quite honest though - the TV has a LOT of different screen settings. It took me a while to optimize it... Hoping to get further improvements when I get it calibrated on october 5.
post #4983 of 13986
A question, did any of you VT60 owners get the VT over the ZT just because of the brighter image output on the 65 in model?

And a similar question, have any of you regretted not getting the ZT for the supposedly better mid to bright room performance in the apparent black levels performance over the VT? The CNET review especially seems to highlight this difference.

Obliviously on the fence. Thanks
post #4984 of 13986
For myself, the better filter on the ZT60 was not worth an extra $500-1000.

I do limited daytime viewing and can control the light to a decent degree when necessary with my VT60 as I have shades/blinds in the room.

I also prefer the slightly greater light output of the VT60 as it helps the most with 3D. Nighttime is when I do "serious" viewing.
post #4985 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

A question, did any of you VT60 owners get the VT over the ZT just because of the brighter image output on the 65 in model?

And a similar question, have any of you regretted not getting the ZT for the supposedly better mid to bright room performance in the apparent black levels performance over the VT? The CNET review especially seems to highlight this difference.

Obliviously on the fence. Thanks

I agree with David.

The black levels are identical, so no difference there.

The only reason I would suggest a ZT over a VT is if you have a very bright viewing room, and when you can't control the ambient light.

In all other cases, get the VT and use the saved money for a pro cal.
post #4986 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Not all are. I'm not. I always suggest using a calibration disc rather than using internet posted settings. Best option, get a pro cal.
Yes good statement. i should not have chosen ALL maybe for the ones useing settings use Cnet's...i also just used thx brightroom and got Pro cal for my tv....smile.gif
post #4987 of 13986
As stunning as these sets are image retention is definitely an issue! Although I never noticed it until I put the Disney WOW disc in with advanced contrast calibration the OPPO logo from my BDP-103. It is apparent on a white screen such as in the purity section of the Disney WOW disc and in very bright scenes such as Harry Potter 7 part 2 Chapter 22 in the dream sequence talking to Gandolf. At the top of the screen I can see the Oppo logo. Initially when I saw it I ran the pixel flipper and screen wipe for 7 days straight. While better it is still there. Now looking at a completely white screen it isn't noticeable anymore. But with certain mixtures some colors in to a bright scene and it is apparent especially against the backdrop of the sky or snow covered mountains.

Make no mistake probably 98% of content it isn't noticeable at all. It is still annoying to see the logo pop up during a certain combination of colors typically being against a bright sky. In Chap. 22 of HP7 part 2 putting the setting to cool2 vanishes the logo, against a total white background like on any calibration disc Warm 2 makes the logo vanish so it varies and believe me if I could put the TV in a setting that make the IR vanish I would. It is getting better though, but I was hoping the problem would go away after 4 days.

Lastly the player automatically goes into screen saver mode after 3 minutes. It is the default setting on the player even after a FW upgrade and I never would have turned the screen saver off. My past sets were Pioneer Elite's going back to the days of rear projectors which were also prone to burn in, but nothing even close to the image retention that is associated with plasma. I watch 95% blurays so the 100% APL Oppo logo has taken a bit of a toll on the phosphers in so much as some aging a bit faster. I will admit before I noticed it all my viewing was in THX cinema mode so the pixel orbiter was off. I have now recalibrated everything in Custom with the pixel orbiter on while getting rid of the green tint apparent in the color decoder.

It is a fantastic set and Iove the picture it produces! I do wish after 10 years Panasonic had the image retention issue resolved by now.

Concerning a OLED set at Harrod's in Britain burn in has popped up in a set the store, so it looks like whatever sets deliver the best PQ this will be an ongoing issue.
Edited by PRO-630HD - 9/24/13 at 5:04pm
post #4988 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

A question, did any of you VT60 owners get the VT over the ZT just because of the brighter image output on the 65 in model?

And a similar question, have any of you regretted not getting the ZT for the supposedly better mid to bright room performance in the apparent black levels performance over the VT? The CNET review especially seems to highlight this difference.

Obliviously on the fence. Thanks

That is exactly the reason I bought it. It equals the ZT in a dark room, and the 3-D PQ is better due to the increased contrast on the set vs. the ZT. The contrast is better on the VT period. The black levels are identical.

Go to a Magnolia store. Bring a bluray with your favorite scene and play it. The ZT and VT are right next to each other and typically hooked up to the same player. the ZT absorbs reflections better and in a bright room maintains its blacks a bet better.
post #4989 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Angel View Post

Wow! I cannot express how disappointed I am about this tv... I exchange it for the samsung f7100 and regret it greatly!!!
Waaay to dim... Yes, I was warned about this... But even in a very dim room it does not "pop" at all...

This is a television if you mostly or exclusively watch movies.... If you're going to watch shows or sports... It does not perform nearly as well as an lcd...

The image is soooo soft is ridiculous.... My old hp lcd looms better than this set... Obviously not in color and blacks reproduction ... But overall better picture quality...

I just paid 2,400 for this television and feel sick to my stomach... I wish I would've kept the f7100 even if the auto dimming was annoying... It does not compare at all...

The samsung is extremely sharp and impressive.... This panasonic seems to be unable to produces whites...

Gaming? Do you lay videogames? It helps that ita soooo dim that it wont hurt your eyes as much... But you lose too much detail...
On the led you can see very good detail on videogames... This television basically smooths everything out...

I must be stupid or blind because I spent hours reading rave reviews...
I will never buy a plasma again... I DO NOT get it...

Yes it looks more like film... But for that you sacrifice detail on everything else...

And omg... Even in the darkest of rooms you just want the image to be brighter!!! It doesn't pop at all...

Whenever I play a blu ray I get a really good image here and there... Not like before when everything looked amazing! Jaw dropping!

This is not the tv for me ... But unfortunately I waited until the last day to exchange at Magnolia... And I don't think I can return it again....

I will regret this for years to come... I totally screwed myself and my family out of an amazing tv....

With what you paid for the TV, you should be a Best Buy My Reward Elite member which allows you to return items within 30 days of purchase.
post #4990 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

As stunning as these sets are image retention is definitely an issue! Although I never noticed it until I put the Disney WOW disc in with advanced contrast calibration the OPPO logo from my BDP-103. It is apparent on a white screen such as in the purity section of the Disney WOW disc and in very bright scenes such as Harry Potter 7 part 2 Chapter 22 in the dream sequence talking to Gandolf. At the top of the screen I can see the Oppo logo. Initially when I saw it I ran the pixel flipper and screen wipe for 7 days straight. While better it is still there. Now looking at a completely white screen it isn't noticeable anymore. But with certain mixtures some colors in to a bright scene and it is apparent especially against the backdrop of the sky or snow covered mountains. .

So how many people get IR with the VT60? It is a little concerning..my S64 is only about 100 hours in if that and it doesn't exhibit IR. Here and there it does cause its so new but other than that i have no issues. So it makes me wonder why the higher models do it more.

Also the green tinge people are seeing..do you feel it takes away from your entire experience with the TV or is it say no more worrisome than the red push on faces on some sets? The pioneer 5020 had this issue due to lack of gamma controls and crippled settings but it didn't bother me much..Dnice was to thank for that
post #4991 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

I agree with David.

The black levels are identical, so no difference there.

The only reason I would suggest a ZT over a VT is if you have a very bright viewing room, and when you can't control the ambient light.

In all other cases, get the VT and use the saved money for a pro cal.

Thank you and DavidHir,

Your comments are where I am leaning now. If the ZT has the same brightness as the VT, I would just suck it up and get the ZT, since I am pretty sure they will not do the autoclave/air gapless thing again in 2014. However, just a guess, of course. But the ZT on the HDJ forum has not even gotten enough attention to have a owners thread. I am have been checking with the local BB. The 65in VT is selling in the Colorado regional BB warehouse at about the rate of 0.2 per week and they had 13 in stock. At they rate, they will have to close them out in 2014 to clear the warehouse. And the VT is not doing much better.

Just confirms why Panasonic hardly discusses plasma anymore. Reference quality sets they are barely moving and the LCD 4k/OLED is just apparently swamping plasma this year.
post #4992 of 13986
I stopped posting at HDJ because of the iron fists. wink.gif Sad to hear they're only selling one ZT every 5 weeks. ZT can go pretty bright, though accuracy may suffer on the high end.
post #4993 of 13986
Just a thought.
The 2012 GTs were selling at 2012 ST prices in January 2013.
I wouldnt be at all surprised if it is the same with the VTs in Jan 2014. If you can wait until Jan 2014 you will probably be able to get a VT60 for ~$1500. ZTs will probably be around $2200. These are 60" estimates.
Based on nothing more than my opinion.
Edited by Bond 007 - 9/25/13 at 3:22am
post #4994 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

So how many people get IR with the VT60? It is a little concerning..my S64 is only about 100 hours in if that and it doesn't exhibit IR. Here and there it does cause its so new but other than that i have no issues. So it makes me wonder why the higher models do it more.

It's because of the fast transition phosphors employed on the higher-end models -- a "necessary evil" (depending on your point of view) for 3D.
post #4995 of 13986
I just joined the club, should have my VT60 mid next week smile.gif
post #4996 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

It's because of the fast transition phosphors employed on the higher-end models -- a "necessary evil" (depending on your point of view) for 3D.

eek.gif Please share the information for this claim, I am curious after I stopped choking on my breakfast. From my following of the Panny threads the complaints about image retention seem to be equal if not more on the ST60 thread, but in fairness I believe you have a larger pool of owners. If you actually pay attention you will also not a lot of the posts about IR are from the same people or from people buying a set who are concerned about it due to the few who go on and on after having an issue. Over 4 months with my VT and not a trace - last Sunday I spent a good portion of the afternoon watching the tracker as part of NFL Sunday Ticket - if that doesn't result in image retention (and ADD) then what will.
post #4997 of 13986
Will this VT60/VT65 series continue into 2014?
post #4998 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

eek.gif Please share the information for this claim, I am curious after I stopped choking on my breakfast. From my following of the Panny threads the complaints about image retention seem to be equal if not more on the ST60 thread, but in fairness I believe you have a larger pool of owners. If you actually pay attention you will also not a lot of the posts about IR are from the same people or from people buying a set who are concerned about it due to the few who go on and on after having an issue. Over 4 months with my VT and not a trace - last Sunday I spent a good portion of the afternoon watching the tracker as part of NFL Sunday Ticket - if that doesn't result in image retention (and ADD) then what will.

Anyone can find IR if they look hard enought for it imo, most of it fades away on its own and is not visible during when viewing regular program material but ther are exceptions. I agree that the some of folks that seem to have the issue were the most concerned about it before purchasing. Some one could make the assumption in some cases that they are looking for it until they find it then raising it as an issue. Alot of this has to do with the misuse of slides imo
post #4999 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post

Will this VT60/VT65 series continue into 2014?

We won't know until CES (Jan 2014).
post #5000 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

eek.gif Please share the information for this claim, I am curious after I stopped choking on my breakfast. From my following of the Panny threads the complaints about image retention seem to be equal if not more on the ST60 thread, but in fairness I believe you have a larger pool of owners. If you actually pay attention you will also not a lot of the posts about IR are from the same people or from people buying a set who are concerned about it due to the few who go on and on after having an issue. Over 4 months with my VT and not a trace - last Sunday I spent a good portion of the afternoon watching the tracker as part of NFL Sunday Ticket - if that doesn't result in image retention (and ADD) then what will.

I had some slight IR on my VT60, but was able to virtually get rid of it. I will say this, the IR issue is better this year compared to my 2011 ST30.
post #5001 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I stopped posting at HDJ because of the iron fists. wink.gif Sad to hear they're only selling one ZT every 5 weeks. ZT can go pretty bright, though accuracy may suffer on the high end.

This does not surprise me about the ZT sales. The fact it doesn't calibrate better or have better blacks (in dark room) than the VT was a big letdown in my opinion and the delay didn't help either.
post #5002 of 13986
I am a firm believer that every Panasonic plasma has IR because the 6 VT models my father and I have owned over the last several years have ALL had it. We do not game, so it's all resulted from regular program materials. Network logos (the big yellow "H" from the History Channels is one of the worst offenders) along with score boxes and information tickers from football and baseball games are the biggest issue.

I have noticed that switching between picture modes and/or color temperatures makes the problem more or less visible. For example, in my VT60 if I switch between Custom and Cinema mode with the same scene on, IR is more visible on Custom than on Cinema. Running the screen wiper for several hours or overnight reduces it greatly, but does not remove it completely.

It is not visible 99% of the time although I can find it if I really look for it. I accept it as part of the having a plasma. Every display will have something that somebody can't live with. Maybe OLED will be the final solution, but for now I find plasma the best 2D display.

As far as the green tint goes, I notice that on some of the factory settings, but any mode I've calibrated using meters and calibration software does not display it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

So how many people get IR with the VT60? It is a little concerning..my S64 is only about 100 hours in if that and it doesn't exhibit IR. Here and there it does cause its so new but other than that i have no issues. So it makes me wonder why the higher models do it more.

Also the green tinge people are seeing..do you feel it takes away from your entire experience with the TV or is it say no more worrisome than the red push on faces on some sets? The pioneer 5020 had this issue due to lack of gamma controls and crippled settings but it didn't bother me much..Dnice was to thank for that
post #5003 of 13986
hey anyone ever heard of IR with smart viara logo an what slides are you guys using for IR except the scrolling bar?
post #5004 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I stopped posting at HDJ because of the iron fists. wink.gif Sad to hear they're only selling one ZT every 5 weeks. ZT can go pretty bright, though accuracy may suffer on the high end.

Completely agree. Its really unfortunate too. Too bad we aren't "insiders", could get away with anything then!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyc2112 View Post

hey anyone ever heard of IR with smart viara logo an what slides are you guys using for IR except the scrolling bar?

I use regular content to get rid of any IR.
post #5005 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post

Will this VT60/VT65 series continue into 2014?
Odds are there will be similar models, just have a different model number like TC-P65VT70U
post #5006 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpjb View Post

I am a firm believer that every Panasonic plasma has IR because the 6 VT models my father and I have owned over the last several years have ALL had it. We do not game, so it's all resulted from regular program materials. Network logos (the big yellow "H" from the History Channels is one of the worst offenders) along with score boxes and information tickers from football and baseball games are the biggest issue.

I have noticed that switching between picture modes and/or color temperatures makes the problem more or less visible. For example, in my VT60 if I switch between Custom and Cinema mode with the same scene on, IR is more visible on Custom than on Cinema. Running the screen wiper for several hours or overnight reduces it greatly, but does not remove it completely.

Would the IR haunt you from buying this set if you had to do it again? Would you downgrade to something with a bigger back panel like an S60. Played a good hour of GTA and I saw nothing on my S64.

But I was thinking could the IR be related to these panels being so thin? The S60/64 is thicker and I see barely any IR (I say barely cuz it is still in the new stage and I expected some IR) and for most part pretty resistant to it. I also don't see much in the s60 thread except for some new owners of plasma tech. I know on LED since the panels have gotten extremely thin it has caused more flash lighting and clouding issues and screen uniformity issues which has always been an issue with LCD tech but was more prominent as the panels reduced in thickness
post #5007 of 13986
IR varies from Panel to Panel even in the same model line, this has been going on since 2010, 2011 timeframe which corresponds to the use of the new faster phospher for 3d. That along with the increased brightness is most likely the culprit. Not classifying it as a defect but some folks have more problems than others for some reason.
post #5008 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Completely agree. Its really unfortunate too. Too bad we aren't "insiders", could get away with anything then!
I use regular content to get rid of any IR.

Same here. Some guy a few weeks ago practically got tar & feathers for saying the ZT should get rid of the chrome trim. It was quite a sir over nothing. Little did he know that he stepped on the Insider's sensitive toes, since he is more of a product style designer and marketing guy. LOL

And part of the iron fist they go back and delete any threads that might not be deemed PC and would make the Insider whine and take his insiders knowledge toys bag home and pout for awhile by leaving the forum as he has done in the past.. It is their worst fear I suspect.

However, I doubt he will be there much pass the end of the year. Panasonic is moving beyond the videophile PQ oriented video market to industrial/commercial per his own hinted at statements. Any consumer products will be niche high-end probably style over substance that are high profit for the rich early adopters. They guys don't post 15k+ post, I bet.
post #5009 of 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

This does not surprise me about the ZT sales. The fact it doesn't calibrate better or have better blacks (in dark room) than the VT was a big letdown in my opinion and the delay didn't help either.


Yeah, one reason I doubt we will see a 2014 ZT. I suspect 2014 will have the ST and VT. Not even sure they will even try the Costco models route again.

I was tracking the BB inventory with the salesperson hoping since they would match Panasonic EPP that I could get a new stock one that just might have the factory foam fix. Of course, I am assuming they are really fixing it in the factory now. It seems reasonable for 50 cent of foam, but who knows for sure. The one guy that probably knows and could post will not even discuss the issue much less hardly acknowledge it.
post #5010 of 13986
Definitely a little defensive in that thread but he has provided some valuable info. Was way off on the ST60 advance info tho , I was shocked when it came out with almost all of the controls of the VT50 and better blacks, honestly it influenced my decision to buy the VT50 at the time but it all worked out in the end since I will be a VT60 owner very soon:)
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