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Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 309

post #9241 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm starting to lean towards the VT because of the added light output.

That's weird. Cnet, home theater magazine and hdtvtest all claimed the ZT60 would get brighter than the VT and cnet went on to observe the ZT as being the superior display for bright rooms (but still a worse choice for that sort of viewing than the Samsung 8500 or a competing LCD).

Did I miss something?
post #9242 of 13983
That is incorrect the VT has always held about a 5ftl advantage in light output. What gives the ZT the advantage in a bright room is the superior AR filter.
post #9243 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Uh Oh...Sage is going to stick it to you with that one.

I'm going to resist the urge and not bite. smile.gif
post #9244 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That is incorrect the VT has always held about a 5ftl advantage in light output. What gives the ZT the advantage in a bright room is the superior AR filter.

I still am not sure I understand...it seems like the confusion lies in "superior bright room" not meaning brighter but meaning that the blacks are preserved better in bright rooms. I'm more concerned with panel light output than anything. So the AR filter in the ZT must cut down on the light output and must not be as bright?
post #9245 of 13983
There are two filters in play, a black filter which restricts light output and an ar filter which preserves blacks in a brighter environment, the VT from strictly a light output standpoint produces a slightly brighter picture but does not preserve blacks as well. So it comes down to which is more important to you I suppose. For a very well lit room I would go with the ZT or 8500.
post #9246 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarsofwei View Post

Very similar story here too. I got my October built 65VT60 on Dec 21 as well and it's been fantastic. I've got about 30 hours on it so far and I'm running it with some settings I found on this thread (from LarryInRI) and it looks fantastic. At 60 contrast, the panel seem bright enough and I've had absolutely no trace of IR. I just watched a 2.35:1 movie and didn't get even a smidge of IR from the black bars. I've played Assassin's Creed IV for about a 2 hour stint and didn't get any IR from HUD elements. With all of the FUD on this thread, I think if you just take some care and don't set the panel too bright, it will treat you well. Really happy with it so far. I do feel like I may want to get it calibrated professionally after it's gotten a few hundred hours of action. But so far so good.

edit: One thing I will add that is a negative about this TV compared to my Panasonic V10 plasma is that input lag is pretty poor for gaming without Game Mode ON. I never had to use Game Mode on my VT10 but it's absolutely necessary on the VT60 for certain games, namely shooters. For slower paced games like Assassin's Creed, for example, it's not totally necessary. But it is a bummer to me that I have to even turn it on at all.

This is my experience as well.
post #9247 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargon 1 View Post

METHOD 1
1. Go to the Standard Picture Setting
2. Turn up your contrast to 100%. 99 or less won't work.
3. Wait 15-25 seconds. (It will gradually increase in brightness, sharpness, depth, with an appealing gamma especially in light-white scenes -no washed out look.)
4. Enjoy!

If this doesn't work for you, do the following:

METHOD 2
Do step 1 and 2. (above)
3. Leave standard mode and go to any of the other picture modes like Vivid or Home Theater.
4. Return to Standard - and it will "pop" in bright, sharp, and deep etc. all at once.
You usually have to do step 3 and 4 a few times before it pops in.

P.S: If it's too bright looking, you can lower your brightness control (NOT contrast) below the setting of 0. It won't defeat the glitch.

Sargon 1

Will this affect or brighten all the video presets or just the Standard?
post #9248 of 13983
I just got my 65vt60 today. I got it up and running and the pict looks great. I have it on THX bright room because I have 6 large windows in the room. I can't detect any real noticeable reflections in the screen. It looks nice. I have a question. I'm in the advanced picture menu and the 24p direct in is not highlighted and is set at 60hz. It won't let me change it. Why is that? There are a lot of options that I haven't a clue to what they do. Mine is a Sept build date.
post #9249 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedoger View Post

... I have a question. I'm in the advanced picture menu and the 24p direct in is not highlighted and is set at 60hz. It won't let me change it. Why is that? There are a lot of options that I haven't a clue to what they do. Mine is a Sept build date.

You might have to switch to a different picture setting. I think the two THX modes lock down the settings and options. Try Standard or Custom.
Edited by freeride - 12/27/13 at 12:01pm
post #9250 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Will this affect or brighten all the video presets or just the Standard?

That's not the way to get reference settings. Cranking contrast to a 100% is not necessary in most cases and probably will do more harm than good. If you want you can also set your panel brightness to high, but I wound not do that.
What you really want to do is setup the black level.
Black level is what made the 9G Kuros so good, and the same applies to the VT/ZT 60's.

Remember its all about contrast ratios, not how high you can get your white level.

What I keep seeing posted in this thread is the blind leading the blind.

Your best bet is probably THX modes, both larryIR and myself have run out of the box calibration charts on THX cinema mode showing that that mode is not that bad. We also ran D-Nice's settings for the VT60, showing that D-Nice's settings and THX settings are fairly close as far as the calibration charts look.

If you are looking to set your dark and bright level the best you can do is get a calibration disc like Connected (Ted) new calibration disc or if that is over kill for your level of skills download the AVS HD 709 calibration disc. Use that to set your brightness and contrast.

ss
post #9251 of 13983
Thanks SS. You may have read a bit too much into my question, but the information you presented is great to know. What I was hoping, was that the brightness 'glitch' would ONLY have an effect on the Standard mode, without modifying any of the other modes. I like the THX and THX Bright modes just as they are. I also like the Theater mode, just as it is (maybe a tiny bit brighter). I just thought Standard was ridiculously dim, and didn't want to max out the brightness to get it to look ordinary.

I have the WOW calibration disc at home, but haven't played with it yet. I was going to mess with the Custom setting, using the WOW disc when I got a chance, but for me, this is more for fun than out of any necessity.
Edited by freeride - 12/27/13 at 12:38pm
post #9252 of 13983
Ok, each mode is set for room lighting and to offer a low level of eye fatigue. From bat cave to fairly bright room. Yes Standard mode is very dim and drab, I don't know why you would want to use that mode unless you have some good meters and calibration software.

I am not aware of any "brightness glitch". I am sure anybody that knows what they are doing could calibrate Standard mode with out maxing out screen brightness and it would look about the same as or better than any THX locked mode.

Of course I am talking about maxing out the PQ of the VT60.

Yes use your calibration disc to adjust your THX , ISF, Custom and Cinema modes for brightness and contrast, turn your sharpness down to 0, turn off all enhancements, at least for HQ video.

ss

btw, if you want to play around with some basic settings for ISF and Custom modes you can click on the top link in my sig.
However to get the detailed settings you would need a eecolor box, because of the size and detail of those settings. Most all displays can't process or store those settings, that's why you need a external processor.
Edited by sillysally - 12/27/13 at 12:59pm
post #9253 of 13983
The brightness glitch is mentioned several times in this 93 page thread. On page 92, Sargon 1 gave step by step instructions on how to do it. Since it is a 'glitch' and not a normal setting, I was concerned that it might affect other picture modes.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/9100_100#post_24114393
post #9254 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I have been here for a long time and will continue to be, if you took that as personal my apologies. I answered your question to the best of my ability either accept the answer or don't.

I can tell from your response that I completely misread you here bro. Thanks and no worries!smile.gif
post #9255 of 13983
Lol!

Brightness glitches? Comparisons to **** panels? Wtf is going on in this thread?

Still loving my VT60. Looking forward to moving into my new place so I can set it up in it's permanent location. Still amazed by (even) the default picture modes. No problems with fan noise or DSE or dimness or lag or IR or anything else. Just figured I'd chime in with a little positivity!
post #9256 of 13983
I like WOW but you can not really use it to to calibrate your tv. It is interesting and fun though.
post #9257 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Will this affect or brighten all the video presets or just the Standard?

To answer your question freeride, this glitch is limited to Standard mode. Tweaking the other modes or cranking up the contrast to 100% in the other modes will not create the brightness, sharpness, depth, and reduction of washout in bright scenes that the Standard mode glitch creates. Nor will doing this to Standard, mess up the much more accurate calibration of the other modes.
post #9258 of 13983
Please show me how you have determine that there is a "glitch".
Do you understand how to calibrate a display. If not please don't start a unfounded rumor.

ss
post #9259 of 13983
I finally received my 65VT60 today. Initial impressions after running some demo 4K videos and the Samsara BluRay in THX mode ...WOW. Big difference from my 65ST30.

Running the slides now. More to report later.

Man that stand is HEAVY!
post #9260 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Please show me how you have determine that there is a "glitch".
Do you understand how to calibrate a display. If not please don't start a unfounded rumor.

ss

A thread search for the term 'glitch' will show two pages worth, but here's one of the posts from near the beginning of the topic:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/8400_100#post_24080076

Then there are those who say it is not a glitch:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/8400_100#post_24082143

I guess I'll have to try it myself. Perhaps the distinction between 'glitch' and normal functionality, lies within the difference in behavior between contrast at 99, and contrast at 100. If it goes noticeably brighter between 99-100, but only a little brighter between 98-99, then I could understand why people call it a glitch.
post #9261 of 13983
I stand corrected.. After measuring peak White (255, 5% window) in Standard mode with contrast set at 100% and 99% there is a very large difference. .
However 99% contrast setting doesn't drop down slowly, it is fairly stable, see readings. 100% does drift downward, see readings.
I turned off all enhancements and sharpness.in these readings. These readings are done using a I1Pro 2, the attachment readings are done using LightSpace software and the pictures are done using Calman Pro 5.2a software..

See attachments for readings of the Lumance (Y) White-100.csv 1k .csv file White-99.csv 1k .csv file

Below is contrast set at 99%


Below is contrast set to 100%


After looking at how badly Blue is out of whack, I would stay away from using Standard mode. .

ss
Edited by sillysally - 12/27/13 at 4:03pm
post #9262 of 13983
I would be crazy to switch out a 65VT60 far a Samsung 75F6300 right? I so want to go bigger but not sure if size is worth it over PQ. Just throwing the idea out there in my head right now.

I sit about 14ft. from my TV and wondering if I would benefit more from size then PQ. I swear this site has ruined me with large size TV's and the want to keep going bigger. I thought originally going with a 55" inch TV that would be considered large but now a 65" TV to me is small. Lol
Edited by eric3316 - 12/27/13 at 4:57pm
post #9263 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I stand corrected.. After measuring peak White (255, 5% window) in Standard mode with contrast set at 100% and 99% there is a very large difference. .
However 99% contrast setting doesn't drop down slowly, it is fairly stable, see readings. 100% does drift downward, see readings.
I turned off all enhancements and sharpness.in these readings. These readings are done using a I1Pro 2, the attachment readings are done using LightSpace software and the pictures are done using Calman Pro 5.2a software..

...

ss

Thanks for the informative analysis! I had to go look up I1Pro2, Lightspace and Calman, to find out what they are. You've got some money invested.

When you say the blue is out of whack, what would it look like if it was in whack? Would it be very near the green and red lines in your Calman screenshots? Is that something that cannot be calibrated in Standard mode? Maybe only in pro mode using custom?
post #9264 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedoger View Post

I just got my 65vt60 today. I got it up and running and the pict looks great. I have it on THX bright room because I have 6 large windows in the room. I can't detect any real noticeable reflections in the screen. It looks nice. I have a question. I'm in the advanced picture menu and the 24p direct in is not highlighted and is set at 60hz. It won't let me change it. Why is that? There are a lot of options that I haven't a clue to what they do. Mine is a Sept build date.

Hi,

You need to have an active 24p source feeding signal to the tv to be able to adjust the option. So, for me, if I have my PS3 hooked up and am browsing the PS3 menu, it is greyed out, but as soon as I start a movie (and enable 24Hz playback on the PS3), I can adjust the setting on the Panasonic. Hope that helps.
post #9265 of 13983
After playing Assassin's Creed IV for 2.5 hours last night.. and about a half hour this morning, I did get a little bit of IR from the HUD elements.. I only noticed it during the Netflix red startup screen on PS3 and on the cartoons my daughter was watching on Netflix. It's faded considerably after about 2 hours of mixed content (I ran the WoW pixel flipper for 15 minutes before getting bored of it). I can't say for sure whether or not this is any worse than my old Panasonic V10 plasma. But it seems to at least be temporary.

Two other thoughts:

- DSE (dirty screen effect) definitely seems more present on this TV than other Plasmas I've seen... it's not a dealbreaker.. but have others noticed it as well? Seems to be par for the course based on what I've seen on the thread.

- I've noticed that there is a little bit of brightness drop off when you're viewing off axis, especially vertically. This definitely was not a phenomenon present on my V10. I wonder if there's some sort of filter or coating that causes this. Has anyone noticed this as well. Sometimes I get lazy and watch TV from the floor, and I noticed a bit of drop off. Nothing major, but enough that I would notice.
post #9266 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Thanks for the informative analysis! I had to go look up I1Pro2, Lightspace and Calman, to find out what they are. You've got some money invested.

When you say the blue is out of whack, what would it look like if it was in whack? Would it be very near the green and red lines in your Calman screenshots? Is that something that cannot be calibrated in Standard mode? Maybe only in pro mode using custom?

I was just setting up my pre settings to run a 21^3 (9400+ point Gamut.CMS) LUT Cube calibration. When I do this type of calibration I use my K10-A and profile it with my I1Pro 2. I use Calman Pro for my pre settings and LightSpace HCC for my very large Profile/LUT Cube calibration.

Grayscale 21 point Pre settings. I use a 21 point grayscale chart to see where the odd points fall, therefore using the 10 point grayscale settings in the VT60 I can make sure the odd points are not to far out of whack when I adjust the grayscale using the 10 point settings of the VT60. Also note I don't use Green or detailed Gamma settings when setting my pre grayscale.



Compare this cart to the same type of chart I posted earlier. Notice how Blue is running along the target line, not way above. Red and Green are also even.
.


Using the profiled K10-A meter, the 4900+ point profile/LUT Cube will take about 4+ hours to complete. The type of calibration you will see are normally only 6 point Gamut/CMS calibrations.

I also use a Lumagen 2041 as a triplet generator and a eecolor box to store and process these very large LUT's for my VT60

ss
Edited by sillysally - 12/27/13 at 6:20pm
post #9267 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I would be crazy to switch out a 65VT60 far a Samsung 75F6300 right? I so want to go bigger but not sure if size is worth it over PQ. Just throwing the idea out there in my head right now.

I sit about 14ft. from my TV and wondering if I would benefit more from size then PQ. I swear this site has ruined me with large size TV's and the want to keep going bigger. I thought originally going with a 55" inch TV that would be considered large but now a 65" TV to me is small. Lol

Just know that the larger the TV, the more noticeable PQ shortcomings will be. I for one would never go with an LED unless I wanted a small screen. Actually, I have one of those - my computer monitor! But I know some people like it BIG, and for yous, there is no solution except LED or a projector.

post #9268 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargon 1 View Post


No problem my friend! But even though I am trying to help, this contrast-brightness glitch may still not create the level of brightness you require. Worth a try. Go to STANDARD and increase the CONTRAST to 100%. Within around 25 seconds it will go very bright. If you have it even at 99, it won't do it. Another method is scroll in and out of the standard mode (to Vivid to Standard to Home Theater and back to Standard, for example, until it pops in bright at once - with the contrast at 100.The good news is it will keep this constrast-bright look even after turning your tv off and on. You will only lose it sometimes when switching modes or if you ever drop your contrast down to 99 or less in the standard picture mode. Someone posted a while back that what I discovered here is not a glitch but a normal part of the energy star mode. (I must have missed that one in the instruction manual). While I agree that Standard is an energy saving worthless dark mode, how could this contrast pop be "normal"? When you increase the contrast of Standard, it brightens incrementally up to 99 to a contrast level about equal to Vivid with a contrast setting of 40. And it keeps this level of brightness no matter how long you wait and scrolling through the modes doesn't change a thing. But if you increase the contrast just one point, to 100, the contrast does what I outlined here with a contrast brightness about equal to Vivid set at 85. So how can a jump from 40-85 with a 1 point increase not be a glitch? Anyway, equal to Vivid at 85 isn't Vivid at 100, but it is brighter than any of the other modes at 100. Conversely, if Vivid were set at 85, it may create an equivalent contrast-brightness of Standard set at 100, but it sure doesn't have an an equivalent look. I honestly don't know why Panasonic didn't make Vivid mode look like this.

Sargon, something really weird happened. My TV's ability to go into your standard glitch mode has vanished. I reset it to default in standard mode and switched back and forth quickly and nothing. I then tried to bring the contrast up to 100 and wait 25 seconds, 1 minute, several minutes and nothing. I'm bummed as I wanted to use it for hockey tonight. have you encountered this or anyone else? Any ideas here? I messed around with Home Theater, Vivid and Custom modes but not the same.

post #9269 of 13983
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnormal View Post

Just know that the larger the TV, the more noticeable PQ shortcomings will be.
Could you please elaborate on this? I am going from a 58" plasma to a 65" plasma, and I think I am noticing that phenomenon. But I could just be too critical. I think picture is not as sharp. Motion is more iterative. Is that what you are talking about?
post #9270 of 13983
SillySally - I read that you did a large sample calibration on your 65vt60. I presume you use those settings. Have you tried all the other posted settings, like cnet and dnice and hdtv and the shootout, etc? And are those close to yours or is yours much better? What manufacture month is your tv? What lighting conditions do you have? Not trying to be nosy, just want to learn, so that maybe I can use.
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