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Elysium - movie of the year - Page 8

post #211 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post

And the plot holes - that is the most idiotically under-defended space station imaginable.

Seriously!! I was kinda blown away by this in the theater.
post #212 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

Seriously!! I was kinda blown away by this in the theater.
+10000000000
post #213 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

maybe everything screwed up with Elysium was the result of interference from Hollywood Powers-That-Be and a Director's Cut will right the ship.

OK, that is a helluva reach....biggrin.gif

That was a bit of a reach but there isn't much I would put past Hollywood suits. The screenplay was so awful, I can't imagine how the inclusion of some cut stuff could convert the mediocrity we saw in the theater into a great film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post

Saw this movie a couple of days ago, and I wasn't too impressed with it... seems like a pretty vanilla dystopian, rich vs. poor plot. And the plot holes - that is the most idiotically under-defended space station imaginable. I can forgive errors like these if there are other parts of the movie that are of redeeming quality, but there weren't any. 95% of the characters are two-dimensional, cardboard cut-out templates lacking any depth.

We agree that the screenplay was really bad. In fact, there was so much bad stuff in the film, I didn't react much to the preposterous invasion, or whatever it was, of the space station.
post #214 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

That was a bit of a reach but there isn't much I would put past Hollywood suits. The screenplay was so awful, I can't imagine how the inclusion of some cut stuff could convert the mediocrity we saw in the theater into a great film. We agree that the screenplay was really bad. In fact, there was so much bad stuff in the film, I didn't react much to the preposterous invasion, or whatever it was, of the space station.

Neill Blomkamp is both director and writer and it falls on him. Hollywood apparently gave him a green light to do whatever he wanted and one can see the results. It is not the dud of the year, but it isn't far behind Lone Ranger that would be almost certain to receive that distinction.
post #215 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Although racism and Apartheid could be inferred from District 9 I took its message as more a humanist one.

Neill Blomkamp is from South Africa. District 9 is set in South Africa. The story is about certain classes of people being segregated and discriminated against. How much more overt does the connection need to be? Does he need to call it "Alienpartheid" for it to sink in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

It's ok that it's a message movie. So is Zero Dark Thirty and Star Wars.

Exactly. There are good message movies and there are bad message movies. I liked District 9 quite a bit. Even without removing its political messages, Elysium could have been better than it turned out to be.

It just saddens me that we live in a culture that has conditioned viewers to disengage all critical thinking when watching movies.
post #216 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

It just saddens me that we live in a culture that has conditioned viewers to disengage all critical thinking when watching movies.

I infer from this comment that, because I faiedl to see any particular currently relevant political message in Elysium, I must have watched the film without exercising any critical thinking. Although I think your having gotten your panties in a twist over the political message you saw in Elysium is wrongheaded, I am not prepared to accuse you of having not thought about the film before expressing your opinion. We disagree on the issue. I can live with that as can you but please don't accuse those of us who disagree with your critical assessment of a film of having failed to think. They are just movies, partner, so take an even strain.smile.gif
post #217 of 489
gwsat, I'm curious, how would you have improved the screenplay?
post #218 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

gwsat, I'm curious, how would you have improved the screenplay?

Good question but I don't know what I could have done to improve the screenplay. I guess I'm not that creative. When I think about Blomkamp's District 9 and its beautiful, evocative ending, I recall loving the dim but earnest Wikus. In stark contrast, I disliked everybody in Elysium including our sort of hero, Max. Even Matt Damon's formidable talents couldn't make me care about the guy. Delacourt, Kruger, and John Carlyle were monsters. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Yeah, they all died
but I had hoped it would happen sooner.smile.gif
post #219 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post


It just saddens me that we live in a culture that has conditioned viewers to disengage all critical thinking when watching movies.

Just because you see as overtly political, there are others that view it differently. I don’t think that makes anyone right or wrong. That you have such energy behind your conviction means, to me, that something about it rubs you the wrong way, which is fine. I see this argument over the politics of the movie as no different than arguing over whether someone “got” a particular movie or not. This part of AVS proves, at least to me, that there are few, if any, who disengage all critical thinking when watching movies. Movies touch us all in different ways. It is up to us, individually, to determine why we feel the way we do when we are moved by a movie. What is lacking is the time and patience to be introspective of why a particular movie moves us in such a powerful way. We acknowledge it does, but often that is about as far as it goes. Perception is everything. And it is an individual thing.

As oink so appropriately pointed out, people can take one word out of a comment and make it seem like that person is the devil; there is no room for discussion. You are the devil because you disagree with me. Period. There appears to be no more gray area; everything is black or white, especially when it comes to politics.

I posted this in the HDTV Programming Forum:

In this day in age, people are so partisan and biased, a network can report 99 stories in which a viewer agrees with the reporting, but if they give one they don’t, then it immediately makes them the enemy. I’ve said it time and time again; mentally, we have become a very sick, sick country. And increasingly immature.
post #220 of 489
I don't disengage thought. I seek hidden messages. smile.gif
post #221 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Just because you see as overtly political, there are others that view it differently. I don’t think that makes anyone right or wrong.

Not everything in life is a matter of opinion. If you want to debate that rightness or wrongness of the political messages in Elysium, that would be a matter of opinion. But to say they aren't there at all is not a matter of opinion. It is factually incorrect. These are not hidden messages. They're right there, out in the open, with blinking lights pointing to them saying, "Look at me! Look at me!"

Forgive my exasperation, but I simply cannot understand how anyone could not see what's right there.

The basic premise of this movie is that the world is divided into Haves and Have Nots - the 1% vs. the 99%. Huh, that sounds a little bit familiar, doesn't it?

The wealthy 1% can afford quality health care that cures all their ills. The 99% have little access to health care and are dying from easily treatable ailments. Hmmm... I wonder, could that possibly be a commentary on things happening in the real world right now? I don't know, it's awfully subtle...

The Haves live in a prosperous region, while the Have Nots live in slums in close physical proximity, even within sight of it, but most are prohibited from going there. Funny, it's almost like they're the United States and Mexico or something. What a coincidence...

The Have Nots attempt to enter the prosperous region without authorization - you might say to immigrate there illegally. When that happens, the Haves attempt to secure their border.

Yup, I clearly must be reading too much into this. There's no way Blomkamp could possibly be trying to say anything with all this. rolleyes.gif
post #222 of 489
I'm ok down here in the slums as long I get a robot exoskeleton and apps for my phone.
post #223 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Not everything in life is a matter of opinion. If you want to debate that rightness or wrongness of the political messages in Elysium, that would be a matter of opinion. But to say they aren't there at all is not a matter of opinion. It is factually incorrect. These are not hidden messages. They're right there, out in the open, with blinking lights pointing to them saying, "Look at me! Look at me!"

Forgive my exasperation, but I simply cannot understand how anyone could not see what's right there.

The basic premise of this movie is that the world is divided into Haves and Have Nots - the 1% vs. the 99%. Huh, that sounds a little bit familiar, doesn't it?

The wealthy 1% can afford quality health care that cures all their ills. The 99% have little access to health care and are dying from easily treatable ailments. Hmmm... I wonder, could that possibly be a commentary on things happening in the real world right now? I don't know, it's awfully subtle...

The Haves live in a prosperous region, while the Have Nots live in slums in close physical proximity, even within sight of it, but most are prohibited from going there. Funny, it's almost like they're the United States and Mexico or something. What a coincidence...

The Have Nots attempt to enter the prosperous region without authorization - you might say to immigrate there illegally. When that happens, the Haves attempt to secure their border.

Yup, I clearly must be reading too much into this. There's no way Blomkamp could possibly be trying to say anything with all this. rolleyes.gif

Several other posters have posted here that they didn't see anything overtly relevant to current political issues in Elysium either. Still, you tell us that we don't think critically, that the message in Elysium, is a matter of fact. We think you are obtuse too.smile.gif I agree that the film clearly depicted the wealthy one percent taking advantage of the downtroden 99 percent but it showed it happening in a dystopian future completely unlike anything we have today. Were it that present day society had the benefit of a machine that could cure all ills. How you could be offended by such fanciful notions flummoxes me but to each his own. Let's continue to disagree in good health and, I hope, with good grace.
post #224 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Not everything in life is a matter of opinion. If you want to debate that rightness or wrongness of the political messages in Elysium, that would be a matter of opinion. But to say they aren't there at all is not a matter of opinion. It is factually incorrect. These are not hidden messages. They're right there, out in the open, with blinking lights pointing to them saying, "Look at me! Look at me!"

Forgive my exasperation, but I simply cannot understand how anyone could not see what's right there.

The basic premise of this movie is that the world is divided into Haves and Have Nots - the 1% vs. the 99%. Huh, that sounds a little bit familiar, doesn't it?

The wealthy 1% can afford quality health care that cures all their ills. The 99% have little access to health care and are dying from easily treatable ailments. Hmmm... I wonder, could that possibly be a commentary on things happening in the real world right now? I don't know, it's awfully subtle...

The Haves live in a prosperous region, while the Have Nots live in slums in close physical proximity, even within sight of it, but most are prohibited from going there. Funny, it's almost like they're the United States and Mexico or something. What a coincidence...

The Have Nots attempt to enter the prosperous region without authorization - you might say to immigrate there illegally. When that happens, the Haves attempt to secure their border.

Yup, I clearly must be reading too much into this. There's no way Blomkamp could possibly be trying to say anything with all this. rolleyes.gif

Again, saying something with your art, is not always what I would consider having a political agenda, and I think this is where we diverge. Blomkamp trying to say something, is again, not necessarily what I would call making a political statement. Not every opinion or feeling about a subject, is a political message. If I was making a movie about the still ever present shadow of racism in America, would I say I was making a political statement? No. I'm not trying to sway viewpoints or start a movement, but I am trying to get what I feel is relevant to me, out there. This might be what you call a political message, but it isn't what I would call it. Maybe it's simply semantics that we are in disagreement over, or maybe I take issue with making something that's worth ten cents, into ten dollars.

And if you think that because I see no(what I would call) political agenda in a movie, that I do not watch movies with a critical eye, then we are in disagreement there again. Except this time, there is no opinion, you are simply wrong.
post #225 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Were it that present day society had the benefit of a machine that could cure all ills.

Just wait. Fifty years from now swarms of nanobots will swim around in your bloodstream targeting any cancer cells they see. They'll repair damage to artery walls. They'll produce insulin for diabetics. And that's not even getting into gene therapy, a whole other line of future treatments.

But will this amazing technology be available to all? That's a good question, and one this film raises. Even given a national health care system, which we will eventually be forced to implement in order to keep the system from melting down, the super-rich will still be able to avail themselves of superior treatments. Just as they always have.
post #226 of 489
HOW FAST WILL THE GOSH DARN WIFI BE?
post #227 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I agree that the film clearly depicted the wealthy one percent taking advantage of the downtroden 99 percent but it showed it happening in a dystopian future completely unlike anything we have today.

The film is an allegory. It's Blomkamp's way of saying that this is what society will turn into if left on its present course.

Brave New World, Nineteen Eighty-Four, Fahrenheit 451... Surely you must recognize that these stories are all allegories as well?
post #228 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Just wait. Fifty years from now swarms of nanobots will swim around in your bloodstream targeting any cancer cells they see. They'll repair damage to artery walls. They'll produce insulin for diabetics. And that's not even getting into gene therapy, a whole other line of future treatments.

But will this amazing technology be available to all? That's a good question, and one this film raises. Even given a national health care system, which we will eventually be forced to implement in order to keep the system from melting down, the super-rich will still be able to avail themselves of superior treatments. Just as they always have.

What the heck happened to "Hope I die before I get old"?

The Rock and Roll lifestyle is taking a hit here.
post #229 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The film is an allegory. It's Blomkamp's way of saying that this is what society will turn into if left on its present course.

Brave New World, Nineteen Eighty-Four, Fahrenheit 451... Surely you must recognize that these stories are all allegories as well?

Elysium is a story anchored on science fiction assumptions so far removed from current reality that to take its arc as an allegory for current reality strikes me as preposterous. Thus, as I said before, we disagree. By the way, surely you really understood that I knew the meaning of "allegory" but let your competitive instincts overcome you by implying that I didn't.smile.gif
post #230 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

please don't accuse those of us who disagree with your critical assessment of a film of having failed to think.
Didn't he do this a year ago?
post #231 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The film is an allegory. It's Blomkamp's way of saying that this is what society will turn into if left on its present course.

Brave New World, Nineteen Eighty-Four, Fahrenheit 451... Surely you must recognize that these stories are all allegories as well?

I actually do not disagree that this movie, as are literally thousands of others, allegorical. But I do not believe that an allegory is political in nature. Again, I think we simply ascribe different meanings to the term political, when it comes to statements made in art.
post #232 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

But I do not believe that an allegory is political in nature.

It's not, Elysium just happens to be an allegory of a current, political subject matter. In science-fiction though, allegories often refer, one way or another, to our own social, economical and political lanscape - after all they have to base their story on something wink.gif. Nothing wrong with that of course, but more subtlety wouldn't have hurt Elysium.
post #233 of 489
Lex Luthor: Miss Teschmacher, some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Miss Teschmacher: Lex, what has chewing gum got to do with the secrets of the universe?

Lex Luthor: [sighs] Right, Miss Teschmacher. Right.
post #234 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post


.....but more subtlety wouldn't have hurt Elysium....

Any subtlety.  At all.

post #235 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

Lex Luthor: Miss Teschmacher, some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Miss Teschmacher: Lex, what has chewing gum got to do with the secrets of the universe?

Lex Luthor: [sighs] Right, Miss Teschmacher. Right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Any subtlety.  At all.

I think we agree on a couple of things: (1) Elysium will never be confused with War and Peace and (2) There is not a single frame of film in Elysium that could be called "subtle."smile.gif
post #236 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I think we agree on a couple of things:.......(2) There is not a single frame of film in Elysium that could be called "subtle."smile.gif
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

exempli gratia:  They chose a nun, for pete's sake, to admonish young Damon that he "has a special purpose" or some such gibberish.  Why not just drop a safe on the viewer's head?

post #237 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
exempli gratia:  They chose a nun, for pete's sake, to admonish young Damon that he "has a special purpose" or some such gibberish.  Why not just drop a safe on the viewer's head?

The whole film was so biblically dumb and over the top, the scene you referenced in your spoiler didn't bother me at all. It just fit in with everything else. Sometimes stuff that is unintentionally funny works better than stuff that is supposed to be funny.smile.gif
post #238 of 489
Let me net it out:

1) You can enjoy the film on several levels or consider it to be of several genres. I think it is striving to be a Hard SF tale, an adventure movie, and to make a brief comment about the present time. As you can tell from this thread, opinions are all over the map, but the harshest criticism voiced is still a long way from "I want two hours of my life back". That has been said before about other films, and will be said again.

2) It appears to be on a box office earnings curve which says it will more than turn a profit before they sell the first disk or stream the first copy.

3) It's good entertainment. You should see it in the best theater around, it's worth the trouble. Popcorn is optional. A sequel is likely, and Matt Damon may come back, as long as his corpse is put into one of those medical beds promptly.

4) If you remain unconvinced or even baffled: They blow up lotza stuff real good.
post #239 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

Let me net it out:

1) You can enjoy the film on several levels or consider it to be of several genres. I think it is striving to be a Hard SF tale, an adventure movie, and to make a brief comment about the present time. As you can tell from this thread, opinions are all over the map, but the harshest criticism voiced is still a long way from "I want two hours of my life back". That has been said before about other films, and will be said again.

2) It appears to be on a box office earnings curve which says it will more than turn a profit before they sell the first disk or stream the first copy.

3) It's good entertainment. You should see it in the best theater around, it's worth the trouble. Popcorn is optional. A sequel is likely, and Matt Damon may come back, as long as his corpse is put into one of those medical beds promptly.

4) If you remain unconvinced or even baffled: They blow up lotza stuff real good.

I agree with you. As long as you know better than to take the silly thing seriously, there is a lot about Elysium that is enjoyable. Over time it might even supplant Starship Troopers as the premiere Camp Classic film.smile.gif
post #240 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Over time it might even supplant Starship Troopers as the premiere Camp Classic film.smile.gif
Elysium camp?eek.gif

Crap does not = camp, it = crap.tongue.gif
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