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F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 55

post #1621 of 2113
just an Fyi,Talked to Kevin Miller the other day ,He says now he recommends 500 hrs before calibration up from 300.eek.gif
post #1622 of 2113
Anyone who has unlocked the ISF menus on the F8500, can you either print or post a jpeg of the different adjustment options?
post #1623 of 2113
Got my tv today. Had to let it sit for 2 hrs to "warm up" because it was freezing cold from being on the truck. Fired up no problem.

Watched a little bit of Dark Knight with the movie preset and was amazed at the clarity and detail from this screen. Gonna have to view every Bluray I have all over again smile.gif

Then changed to the settings as recommended by pie. Really liked the picture better with a cell light down from 20 to 14. After all changes were made as well as prescribed video settings on the PS3, I watched Avatar in its entirety and it was EPIC!!

Couple questions for the pros here. Do I need to run my tv to my receiver via the hdmi3 port to utilize ARC (as documented) and get tv sound through my home theatre?

Also, pie - do you flip your PS3 settings whenever you go from watching a movie to playing a game (I noticed the settings were different)? If so, isn't this a pain in the butt? Is there an easy way to quickly switch without manually changing the settings?
post #1624 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonwareltd View Post


snip

Couple questions for the pros here. Do I need to run my tv to my receiver via the hdmi3 port to utilize ARC (as documented) and get tv sound through my home theatre?

The ARC (audio return channel) is on HDMI 3 for the 8500.
post #1625 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonwareltd View Post

Also, pie - do you flip your PS3 settings whenever you go from watching a movie to playing a game (I noticed the settings were different)? If so, isn't this a pain in the butt? Is there an easy way to quickly switch without manually changing the settings?

The PS3 will use RGB Full for gaming and Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr for disc playback so you won't need to change anything on the PS3. Your TV will require the HDMI input changing to Game Mode though each time you play games.

I now use an Oppo player for disc playback, and have relegated the PS3 for gaming only. The PS3 is now routed to it's own HDMI port on the TV and uses optical to the AVR. This makes it easier just to change TV source rather than renaming the input for gaming.
post #1626 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post


The PS3 will use RGB Full for gaming and Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr for disc playback so you won't need to change anything on the PS3. Your TV will require the HDMI input changing to Game Mode though each time you play games.

I now use an Oppo player for disc playback, and have relegated the PS3 for gaming only. The PS3 is now routed to it's own HDMI port on the TV and uses optical to the AVR. This makes it easier just to change TV source rather than renaming the input for gaming.

 

People here seem to recomend RGB Full, which on Xbox One is PC output.  Problem for me is getting HDMI Blac Level right.  When I use PC output on xbox, and HDMI Normal its way too washed out.  Have to tweak brightness down to below 30 to get image to go dark on xbox calibration app.

Am I correct about Samsung 8500 HDMI

0-255 FULL/Extended/PC   =  HDMI NORMAL

16-235  LOW/Limited/TV    = HDMI LOW

Blu Ray (being low/limited)  = HDMI LOW

 

Ive read some really convoluted posts about Samsungs Labeling being backwards,  or their interpretation of what NORMAL is.

post #1627 of 2113

Going to add a long in depth post....this is the crap that confuses me.  The Full vs Limited argument continues.

 

- RGB Full Range (HDMI) is probably the least well understood option. You actually want to set this to "limited". As I said previously, RGB should be used for computer signals (ie. games on the PS3, but not video). This whole thing is all about Above White (aka Whiter-than-White/ WTW) and Below Black (aka Blacker-than-Black/ BTB) information. In video, the camera is set for a certain "white level" prior to recording. This is meant to inform the camera what the brightest, whitest object on screen will be and setting it keeps colours and levels looking consistent throughout the film. But occassionally, there will be something slightly brighter than the level set as "white" in the "white balance" calibration of the camera. Video signals include some "headroom" so that this information is still preserved in the recording. If it were discarded, then that "whiter-than-white" information would be "clipped" and when you watched it back, it would look strange because you would see a solid "block" of white in that area of the picture, rather than a natural blend of white tones. Similarly, on the opposite end of the scale, a certain absence of light is defined as "black", but there can occassionally be even less light in certain recordings and these would appear as "black-than-black". Again, there is some room provided below the video black level so that this information is preserved and you do not end up with just a "block" of black where there ought to be some very slight variations.

But computer signals are different. There are not such occassional "mistakes" as when filming real world content with a camera. Everything is strictly defined within the computer (or game) and there is never anything "white-than-white" or "blacker-than-black".

Setting the RGB setting to "limited" keeps game images "perfect" in this way. There is no Above White or Below Black being sent and when something is supposed to be black, it will appear black on your TV and something that is supposed to be white will appear white.

If you set it to "full" and play a game, black will appear as dark grey and white will appear as light grey. This is because with RGB set to "full" there is additional information being sent above white and below black - but there is nothing actually there in the game! Your TV will "see" this extra information though and "leave room" above white and below black, thereby making both appear grey instead!

So why even have this option? Because some people are connecting their PS3 to a computer monitor or a projector that acts like a computer monitor rather than a TV and will only accept a RGB signal. With such displays, you will have to set the BD/DVD Video Output Format to RGB or Auto rather than YCbCr and when you do so, you're then going to want that Above White and Below Black information because the video signal will contain that type of information and this is the only way to preserve it ;)

For a TV though, you will have the BD/DVD Video Output Format set to YCbCr as we discussed before and this leaves you free to set the RGB Full Range option to "limited" and never have to worry about changing settings in your PS3 :) Video will come out of the PS3 as YCbCr as it should and PS3 games will come out as RGB as they should :) If you are using a computer monitor or a projector that only works with RGB signals though, then you will need to switch this RGB option back and forth depending on the content. "Full" for movies and video content and "Limited" for games ;)

 

 

Seeing this post just confused me further, but it makes sense.

post #1628 of 2113

Sorry, another paste, and another explanation, and this one talks about BANDING at the end.

 

"Limited" and "standard" means that the digital signal uses the range 16-235 for each of the RGB values. This means that each of the three primary colors (RGB) only has 220 shades (235-16+1). If you multiply all combinations of RGB shades, you get a little bit over 10million possible colors. 2203 = 10648000 colors to be exact.

"Full" and "non-standard" means that the digital signal uses the range 0-255 for each of the RGB values. This means each of the RGB colors can have 256 shades. Which means you get over 16million possible color combinations. 2563 = 16777216 to be exact.

So what does this really mean? It means that when set to "Full" or "Non-standard" mode, your display has the potential to display more colors, which can equate to smoother gradients. However, just because you set it to "full" doesn't mean it'll be better. In fact, it could be worse. The reason is that almost all production video contents are encoded using the "limited" range. By setting your PS3 and TV to the "Full" range, your signal range will be different than the original video source. This can cause even worse gradiation (banding) due to rounding errors when you remap 16-235 to 0-255. So when would you want to use "Full", you might ask? You'll want to use it for computer graphics that's not pre-recorded. This means a computer or gaming output. However, there are a lot of caveats. Many HDMI connection from PCs will default to the limited range by default. XBOX360 for example is "limited" by default and setting to "full" will result in internal remapping which can cause banding. I'm not sure what exactly PS3 does.

 

 

 

bangs head agains wall, think I'll stick with TV/Limited and LOW HDMI BLACK.

post #1629 of 2113
Oh blimey wink.gif Do not be confused with gaming and movie playback.

The post above is referring to video, not gaming.
Of course set RGB to video levels for disc playback. Alternatively set your PS3 to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr for disc playback and it will use RGB for gaming only. This is my preferred method.

Here's my notes on the matter from my sig, it's up to you what RGB level you choose. I prefer to see the fuller gamut for game play and hence use RGB FULL / HDMI NORMAL.

PS3 Video Settings
Cinema Conversion - Auto - Default
BD/DVD Upscaler - Normal - Default
BD/DVD Video Output Format - Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr - For movies it is recommended as it prevents a video conversion stage to RGB and back again.
1080P 24 Hz Output - Your preference - works nicely with 96Hz Film Mode on some Blurays and not so nice on others.
PS3 Display Settings
RGB Range - Full - This is for gaming (TV Nominal Range set to NORMAL). Bluray/DVD uses Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr
Super Whites - On - Sends blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white video signals to the F8500 which supports it. This is an important setting prior to calibration of the TV.
Deep Color Output - Off - There are no Deep color Blurays/DVD's - and few games. Not worth turning on.

Notes
  • Gaming only (not watching movies) is done in RGB Full. Gaming and disc movie watching are two separate entities regards to colorspace if you set your PS3 correctly.-
  • For movie watching all disc material, Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr with Superwhites on is the only thing you need to set on the PS3 - the TV's HDMI black level will be grayed out and be set correctly (when playing the disc).
  • Calibrate from here using a calibration disc in the PS3.
  • For gaming, set RGB to 0-255 Full on the PS3 and HDMI Normal on the TV to make 0 black and 255 white. Doing so you will have a larger gamut than 16 black to 235 white.
    PS3 games are encoded in in the full range of 0-255.
  • Setting 16-235 Limited on the PS3 and Low on the TV creates the same black and white 'points' compared to 0-255 (flick them both over yourselves to compare and see) but you are loosing some gamut as you are squeezing in all the range into a smaller subset (16-235). You are also adding a compression conversion stage to the processing which the PS3 has to do. Essentially if you have the console set to output 16-235 video levels for gaming then the native range of the game is compressed so 0 becomes 16 and 255 becomes 235. Sure it works but I'd rather not force the conversion and I would rather see the whole gamut that the game was encoded in.
  • Either way, gaming Full/Normal or Limited/Low you'll be getting the same blacks and the same whites and will be okay to play.
post #1630 of 2113
This is RGB 0-255 greyscale shown in 8 step increments. Black is 0 and white is 255. There is no WTW or BTB. Games are encoded using 0-255.


Edited by pieandchips - 1/24/14 at 10:58am
post #1631 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfumat0 View Post

People here seem to recomend RGB Full, which on Xbox One is PC output.  Problem for me is getting HDMI Blac Level right.  When I use PC output on xbox, and HDMI Normal its way too washed out.  Have to tweak brightness down to below 30 to get image to go dark on xbox calibration app

Something is misconfigured then.
post #1632 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post


Something is misconfigured then.


Thanks for your reply's, and thats what bothers me.  I think having to go below 30 on brightness shows something to be wrong.   Maybe I need to make the changes, turn off console, and tv and then reboot...see what happens then.  Could be Im switching back and forth too much, too fast.

 

Xbone, and PS3/4 handle things a little differently,  if I switch to full I will have to change settings when I play Blu Rays, which could be a drag.  Thinking of getting a stand alone blu ray player.

Funny thing about tweaking TV's, its a lot like when I work on my hot rods, constantly trying to eek out a few more horsepower.

I do appreciate peoples passion for it, and yeah Ive got the bug too, but I also think back to day one with my Sammy 8500, and I was blown away...with no tweaks.   Thinks it about time I just sit back and enjoy it and stop wondering if "IT CAN BE BETTER!"  lol

post #1633 of 2113
sfumat0

Try going to the cell light setting and move it up down 1.

For whatever reason, its like mine gets stuck at a lower brightness and has to be adjusted in that manner.
post #1634 of 2113
What about settings for the ps4? Ive been playing battlefield 4 for weeks now with game mood factory settings and the picture just doesn't feel right.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
post #1635 of 2113
^ The TV's Game mode factory settings are not good at all IMO.

Set your PS4 to RGB full for gaming and try these settings:


**PS3 / Other console: RGB FULL** If you don't have this set correctly you'll be incorrectly configured

TV: Game mode

(Standard Mode)
Cell Light - 6
Contrast - 95
Brightness- 48
Sharpness - 5
Color - 50
Tint - 50/50

Color Tone - Standard
HDMI Black Level - Normal
Everything else - off
Black Optimizer - Dark Room

Flesh Tone - 0
Gamma - 0
Everything else - off

Color Space - Auto

White Balance (2 point)
23,25,22,24,25,24

These are for my 51" so you may have to dabble with cell and brightness to get things just right if you have a larger TV.
post #1636 of 2113
bigjoexxl

Is it the motion, responsiveness, or something else?

I'm not a gamer but others on this board can help but need a bit more information.
post #1637 of 2113
Honestly I don't think I'm having any lag issues. Buzzing like crazy though but that's a different story. I just feel like the picture should be better. I'm also dying all the time on battlefield 4. Im going to give the settings above a shot and let you guys know

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
post #1638 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ The TV's Game mode factory settings are not good at all IMO.

Set your PS4 to RGB full for gaming and try these settings:


**PS3 / Other console: RGB FULL** If you don't have this set correctly you'll be incorrectly configured

TV: Game mode

(Standard Mode)
Cell Light - 6


Color Space - Auto

 

Two questions, that seems like a really really low cell light?  Now when Ive tried switching my Xbox One to PC/FULL mode,  HDMI Normal,  I have to really lower my brightness settings to come close to the suggested brightness using the xbox calibration app.  Do you think that could be because my cell is too high?  yours is the lowest Ive ever seen by anyone, for anything.

Next, Color Space, why Auto?  I have it set to native, thought that was recommended.  Could that also be why Im having troubles setting brightness when I try using FULL RGB??

post #1639 of 2113
Yeah I just tried out pie settings and the picture was really dark. I ended up turning the cell up the 14 to just be able to see the enemies. It's possible that I could be having some motion issues. Just feels like the game is going at a faster pace than what im seeing. I really just don't know.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
post #1640 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfumat0 View Post

Two questions, that seems like a really really low cell light?  Now when Ive tried switching my Xbox One to PC/FULL mode,  HDMI Normal,  I have to really lower my brightness settings to come close to the suggested brightness using the xbox calibration app.  Do you think that could be because my cell is too high?  yours is the lowest Ive ever seen by anyone, for anything.


Next, Color Space, why Auto?  I have it set to native, thought that was recommended.  Could that also be why Im having troubles setting brightness when I try using FULL RGB??

With the TV in Game Mode, Standard Picture Mode is automatically selected.
In this mode, the TV is very bright and cell of 6-7 is approximately the same as cell 13-14 for Movie mode.

Auto for gaming is much closer to how games should look IMO. Native adds strange hues to the colors.

This is gaming only remember!!
Edited by pieandchips - 1/24/14 at 12:03pm
post #1641 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoexxl View Post

Yeah I just tried out pie settings and the picture was really dark. I ended up turning the cell up the 14 to just be able to see the enemies. It's possible that I could be having some motion issues. Just feels like the game is going at a faster pace than what im seeing. I really just don't know.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

Are you changing your TV to Game mode ON in Menu/System/General ?
post #1642 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoexxl View Post

Yeah I just tried out pie settings and the picture was really dark. I ended up turning the cell up the 14 to just be able to see the enemies. It's possible that I could be having some motion issues. Just feels like the game is going at a faster pace than what im seeing. I really just don't know.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk


Have you turned network smoothing OFF/"0" in the game settings.  It really screws you on lag, its basically trying to guess where the person will be to make things run smoother...kind of like how a tv will insert frames when you use a motion judder or smoothing feature.  If you turn network smoothing off, where you see the guy is where he will be. 
 

post #1643 of 2113
Just a follow up:

Changing both game console and TV to Video levels (16-235) and then comparing both to PC levels (0-255), whites should be the same as well as blacks. You shouldn't have to do any changes to your TV's cal to balance things between both modes. If you are seeing differences, then double check all settings on console and TV.

If you route through an AVR that performs picture processing (not pass through) check that too.
Edited by pieandchips - 1/24/14 at 1:14pm
post #1644 of 2113
Where is the option to turn off smoothing? I looked and didn't see it

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
post #1645 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Are you changing your TV to Game mode ON in Menu/System/General ?

Thanks for this - I missed doing this and wasn't really liking the way Diablo 3 was looking. Will have to go back and change this and see how it looks. I also think I may need to get a standalone Bluray player for ease of configuring. Any recommendations for 3D capable players?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoexxl View Post

Honestly I don't think I'm having any lag issues. Buzzing like crazy though but that's a different story. I just feel like the picture should be better. I'm also dying all the time on battlefield 4. Im going to give the settings above a shot and let you guys know

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

My tv was buzzing like crazy since I turned it on yesterday. It turned out the back panel was vibrating, making the horrid buzzing. Try pressing your hand firmly along the back of the panel (for me it was the top right when facing it) and see if it kills the buzzing. Worked for me to just push on the casing hard enough and it hasn't returned.

- Stan
post #1646 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I've never gone there. 2.25 is my sweet spot. I'd be interested in how you get on.

Well, 2.4 just seems to dark. What are others using for their target gamma?

After looking at a few threads, I didn't realize how controversial the subject is. smile.gif
post #1647 of 2113
^ 2.2 is the 'standard' for dark room viewing. I push it up a tickle so it helps for daylight viewing. I don't watch in a bat cave / dark room environment.

The difference between 2.2 and 2.25 is certainly noticeable. I compared both when I was figuring out what to do. I see more influence in the darks and shadows with 2.25 especially when watching during the day. This helps the TV show it's blacks better I find.

Here's a great page I found which helped me decide, especially this table:

http://www.displaycalibrationonline.com/colorscience_gamma.asp

HTH
Edited by pieandchips - 1/25/14 at 6:41am
post #1648 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

Well, 2.4 just seems to dark. What are others using for their target gamma?

After looking at a few threads, I didn't realize how controversial the subject is. smile.gif

It sure is along with what size and type window patterns to use. At least with the 8500, you have a lot less abl behavior so it shouldn't be quite the difference it use to be.

On my VT50, I tried to get it as bright as I could and it worked for nighttime.


What I'm finding on the F8500, is that you can make it get plenty bright for my bright room. For me, it makes sense to go ahead and setup the ISF menu and have a day and night modes with different peak brightness and gammas. Most will say that daytime gamma should be lower than night time to avoid crushing near black.

Then you've got the whole BT1886 gamma thing that kind of combines the two.
post #1649 of 2113
^ Jim, you know that day, night and the regular modes share the same 10 point and CMS values?

I really wish they did not...the TV would be super configurable otherwise.
post #1650 of 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Just a follow up:

Changing both game console and TV to Video levels (16-235) and then comparing both to PC levels (0-255), whites should be the same as well as blacks. You shouldn't have to do any changes to your TV's cal to balance things between both modes. If you are seeing differences, then double check all settings on console and TV.

If you route through an AVR that performs picture processing (not pass through) check that too.

 

OK, so I swithched XBOX ONE to PC/FULL mode,  my HDMI to normal,  AND I changed HDMI to "PC".   So basically if I understand it right my TV should be acting like a PC monitor now, not doing any processing. 

As for the "color calibration" issue I was having when I was trying to calibrate" FULL mode" with the xbox calibration app, I have come to the conclusion that that xbox app is set up for LIMITED and that is why I cant get the "eye" to show when using PC levels.

I do think lag is better, but I am definitely taking a hit on graphics, not much, but enough that if I am not playing multi player like BF4 I will probably switch back to game mode and limited.  No other games out right now till THIEF comes out in February.  NOW thats a game where the brightness is going to have to be PERFECT as a lot of it depends on shadows, and hiding.

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