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NE Spring Speaker Shootout results thread - April 13, 2013 - Page 4

post #91 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Get one going!

That is something I wold love to be able to do - of course, I only have room for about 6 people... wink.gif
post #92 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

After reading this thread, one thing I truly believe is that one cannot really buy speakers without listening to them in your room and with your own equipment (receiver, amp,etc...) as we all have different preferences. Take the Legacy Focus as an example, some rated them on top, other disappointed.

I have always believed this as well from personal experience, the biggest determining factor is the room though. I have had 2 occasions where I have purchased high end speakers after a dealer demo but could never get them to sound the same at home. The first pair I went so far as even changing my amps and pre-amps to the same as in the showroom since the speakers were outstanding there, not so much at home. Same speakers, amps and pre-amp but different room sounded like a completely different system so this is why home auditions are so important.

Sounds like everyone had a killer time.

Thanks for all the write-ups and coverage, I really enjoy reading about it.
post #93 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

The Legacy's (mine) do have a narrow sweet spot both vertically and horizontally. Because of that, they aren't a good candidate for home theater. I got them knowing that as I am more of a one man, sweet spot music listener. One comment was made that they didn't even hear a sweet spot. Placement and listening position for these is critical and when you are there, these guys are transparent and accurate as hell. They were placed wide compared to my home setting which may have effected the spot. And yes they do get loud, keeping their qualities, up into no mans land. I drive them here at home with a Bryston 14B SST (900 at 4ohm). . But... they don't compare to the CAT 12's or the Noesis 212's because they aren't designed as a wide dispersion heavy hitter HT speaker.

With that said, I am now considering changing to an HT specific speaker. . Have to look at what I can do financially depending on what my stuff brings in.

As the HT turns....

Hi, I've been reading this thread, and although I was not at the GTG, I had a few comments, specifically about the Legacy Focus SEs, in order to provide some additional clarity around them.

I believe the comment that the Focus SEs "...aren't a good candidate for home theater", is flawed. In fact the Focus SEs make excellent speakers for both music and home theater when set up properly. In a home theater application, the effective "sweet spot" is widened considerably when using a Marquis center channel, or even a third Focus SE if you have an acoustically transparent screen. There is absolutely no good reason why Focus SEs could not be used to create a world class home theater.

In addition, at your GTG, the Focus SEs are shown in the pictures as being set up on a stage, maybe 8" to 10" higher than floor height. The Focus SEs are designed to sit on the floor so that the woofers and tweeters are at their optimum height for SEATED listening from 10 feet or more away. The manual clearly states that optimum listening position is between 5-15 degrees off axis, suggesting a gently toe-in, and that best results are obtained with the tweeter at close to the listener's ear height.

Also, controlling directivity of a speaker helps keep additional unwanted energy from bouncing all over the room, which can cause blurred or muddied sound, or require heroic room treatment efforts.

Obviously, people are making judgements about this speaker without taking proper setup into account, so take those judgements with a grain of salt. Most people sit still when listening or watching a movie. They do not stand up and sit down. The Legacy designs take a seated listening position into account, and they design their speakers for maximum performance when they are used that way.

I understand that the needs of the day required a "quick and dirty" set up, and you were dealing with the stage that was there. But I wanted to be clear that this was NOT the recommended setup for the Legacy Focus SEs, especially when some people were sitting on the floor close to the speakers, or standing up way off-axis, and that could cause some people to not hear everything this speaker is capable of. The Focus SEs are world class performers and I guarantee that anyone who takes the time to set them up as directed to evaluate them will be very pleased with their performance abilities.
Edited by DMark1 - 4/15/13 at 12:12pm
post #94 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post


Hi, I've been reading this thread, and although I was not at the GTG, I had a few comments, specifically about the Legacy Focus SEs, in order to provide some additional clarity around the Focus SEs.

I believe the comment that the Focus SEs "...aren't a good candidate for home theater", is flawed. In fact the Focus SEs make excellent speakers for both music and home theater when set up properly. In a home theater application, the effective "sweet spot" is widened considerably when using a Marquis center channel, or even a third Focus SE if you have an acoustically transparent screen. There is absolutely no good reason why Focus SEs could not be used to create a world class home theater.

In addition, at your GTG, the Focus SEs are shown in the pictures as being set up on a stage, maybe 8" to 10" higher than floor height. The Focus SEs are designed to sit on the floor so that the woofers and tweeters are at their optimum height for SEATED listening from 10 feet or more away. The manual clearly states that optimum listening position is between 5-15 degrees off axis, suggesting a gently toe-in, and that best results are obtained with the tweeter at close to the listener's ear height.

Obviously, people are making judgements about this speaker without taking proper setup into account, so take those judgements with a grain of salt. Most people sit still when listening or watching a movie. They do not stand up and sit down. The Legacy designs take a seated listening position into account, and they design their speakers for maximum performance when they are used that way.

I understand that the needs of the day required a "quick and dirty" set up, and you were dealing with the stage that was there. But I wanted to be clear that this was NOT the recommended setup for the Legacy Focus SEs, especially when some people were sitting on the floor close to the speakers, or standing up way off-axis, and that could cause some people to not hear everything this speaker is capable of. The Focus SEs are world class performers and I guarantee that anyone who takes the time to set them up as directed to evaluate them will be very pleased with their performance abilities.

The Legacy towers would have had their asses kicked by the final lineup—no matter how much power they were fed, no matter how much time was spend on setup. Just the plain facts: None of the speakers enjoyed optimum placement, none of the attendees had optimum seating for every track. No offense to Legacy, but the idea that their "performance window" is so narrow makes their value a bit more dubious, considering the thumping they took from the Yorkvilles, Noesis and Cat12s. Everything is relative, the Legacy towers are still great speakers, but for the money they cannot keep up with the other heavy-hitters which are more "pro audio" oriented, but ultimately outperform the "consumer" speakers, IMO.

post #95 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The Legacy towers would have had their asses kicked by the final lineup—no matter how much power they were fed, no matter how much time was spend on setup. Just the plain facts: None of the speakers enjoyed optimum placement, none of the attendees had optimum seating for every track. No offense to Legacy, but the idea that their "performance window" is so narrow makes their value a bit more dubious, considering the thumping they took from the Yorkvilles, Noesis and Cat12s. Everything is relative, the Legacy towers are still great speakers, but for the money they cannot keep up with the other heavy-hitters which are more "pro audio" oriented, but ultimately outperform the "consumer" speakers, IMO.

OK, if you say so.

No doubt that if you are looking for a pro-sound type speaker, any offering from JTR, Seaton, or the others would do.

It would be a fun comparison to put those pro speakers up against Legacy's pro speakers designed for theater use, such as the Double Helix and the Wavelaunch Steerable Arrays. Maybe someday...

Double Helix:
Larger_doubleHelix_pic_208_295.jpg

Wavelaunch Array:
wavelaunch_array_2_web_1_250_188.jpg
post #96 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post


OK, if you say so.

No doubt that if you are looking for a pro-sound type speaker, any offering from JTR, Seaton, or the others would do.

It would be a fun comparison to put those speakers up against Legacy's pro speakers designed for theater use, such as the Double Helix and the Wavelaunch Steerable Arrays. Maybe someday...

Double Helix:
Larger_doubleHelix_pic_208_295.jpg

Wavelaunch Array:
wavelaunch_array_2_web_1_250_188.jpg

Yes that would have been a bit more fair in terms of dynamic capabilities and efficiency, but not necessarily overall performance. Frankly, the speakers you are showing here probably would not sound very good in a home-based theater, the drivers are too far apart, speakers like that really are designed for an auditorium with a minimum seating distance, further than you'd find in a home theater. 

 

I spent the previous day in New York listening to audiophile speakers, so I had plenty of other poorly positioned but highly competent speakers to compare the overall experience to. I was not blown away by the SE tower, and they had 22 minutes to scrounge up some sort of exceptional moment. Instead they were safe and smooth—but I acknowledge their competence. 

 

You can't simply say that "any pro speaker will do", there are absolutely differences between them. These are not mere blunt instruments. What they lack in bling—and the Legacies are bling regardless of their other qualities—the pro-inspired speakers more than make up for in substance. 


Edited by imagic - 4/15/13 at 1:06pm
post #97 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The Legacy towers would have had their asses kicked by the final lineup—no matter how much power they were fed, no matter how much time was spend on setup. Just the plain facts: None of the speakers enjoyed optimum placement, none of the attendees had optimum seating for every track. No offense to Legacy, but the idea that their "performance window" is so narrow makes their value a bit more dubious, considering the thumping they took from the Yorkvilles, Noesis and Cat12s. Everything is relative, the Legacy towers are still great speakers, but for the money they cannot keep up with the other heavy-hitters which are more "pro audio" oriented, but ultimately outperform the "consumer" speakers, IMO.

True. They are not pro-audio as in commercial oriented slammers. When you say asses kicked, I agree on the heavy power side but disagree on the normal listening levels. Lots of different capabilities were there and I liked hearing the different subtleties of them all. Personally I just think they were somewhat written off from the get go as high cost overkill but when they were being played there was a lot of interest in them. When I heard them playing there in that venue, I thought they blew away all of the previous speakers with respect to quality. I do not feel they would blow away the heavy hitters only because they are not designed to do what those speakers do.
The constant comments on their cost makes me smile. I paid significantly less than you would pay for a pair of Cat 12's. But then who cares... I feel they are two different speaker types for largely different listening styles.

The GTG was big time HT centered. There was an anticipation for listening to the big boys and I feel they were simply going through the paces to get there. Please don't take that as a negative comment as I was looking forward to hearing them myself.
post #98 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Hi, I've been reading this thread, and although I was not at the GTG, I had a few comments, specifically about the Legacy Focus SEs, in order to provide some additional clarity around them.

I believe the comment that the Focus SEs "...aren't a good candidate for home theater", is flawed. In fact the Focus SEs make excellent speakers for both music and home theater when set up properly. In a home theater application, the effective "sweet spot" is widened considerably when using a Marquis center channel, or even a third Focus SE if you have an acoustically transparent screen. There is absolutely no good reason why Focus SEs could not be used to create a world class home theater.

In addition, at your GTG, the Focus SEs are shown in the pictures as being set up on a stage, maybe 8" to 10" higher than floor height. The Focus SEs are designed to sit on the floor so that the woofers and tweeters are at their optimum height for SEATED listening from 10 feet or more away. The manual clearly states that optimum listening position is between 5-15 degrees off axis, suggesting a gently toe-in, and that best results are obtained with the tweeter at close to the listener's ear height.

Also, controlling directivity of a speaker helps keep additional unwanted energy from bouncing all over the room, which can cause blurred or muddied sound, or require heroic room treatment efforts.

Obviously, people are making judgements about this speaker without taking proper setup into account, so take those judgements with a grain of salt. Most people sit still when listening or watching a movie. They do not stand up and sit down. The Legacy designs take a seated listening position into account, and they design their speakers for maximum performance when they are used that way.

I understand that the needs of the day required a "quick and dirty" set up, and you were dealing with the stage that was there. But I wanted to be clear that this was NOT the recommended setup for the Legacy Focus SEs, especially when some people were sitting on the floor close to the speakers, or standing up way off-axis, and that could cause some people to not hear everything this speaker is capable of. The Focus SEs are world class performers and I guarantee that anyone who takes the time to set them up as directed to evaluate them will be very pleased with their performance abilities.

Thanks for contributing your thoughts on the speaker setup. All speakers have design trade-offs to meet specific goals and I thought the Legacy's were a fine sounding speaker when listening as intended by the designers.
post #99 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Yes that would have been a bit more fair in terms of dynamic capabilities. I spent the previous day in New York listening to audiophile speakers, so I had plenty of other poorly set-up but highly competent speakers to compare. I was not blown away by the SE tower, but I acknowledge their competence. Frankly, the speakers you are showing here probably would no sound very good in a smaller room.

I don't want to thread jack here, but I bet the Wavelaunch or Double Helix would sound much better than you'd think due to their DSP processing and steering technologies that reduce side radiation. The goal is to direct the wavelaunch forward, and not toward the walls, floor, and ceiling. Essentially, with the DSP processor, you can tune the speaker to the room. The Whisper and the new Aeris utilize similar DSP and acoustic steering technology in a smaller, more affordable package for home use.

But, you're right. Most people that can afford the Wavelaunch or Double Helix for their high end theaters will already have a larger room.

OK, I'm done offering information. Not interested in arguing the point. Everyone is free to voice their opinions. :-)
post #100 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

I don't want to thread jack here, but I bet the Wavelaunch or Double Helix would sound much better than you'd think due to their DSP processing and steering technologies that reduce side radiation. The goal is to direct the wavelaunch forward, and not toward the walls, floor, and ceiling. Essentially, with the DSP processor, you can tune the speaker to the room. The Whisper and the new Aeris utilize similar DSP and acoustic steering technology in a smaller, more affordable package for home use.

But, you're right. Most people that can afford the Wavelaunch or Double Helix for their high end theaters will already have a larger room.

OK, I'm done offering information. Not interested in arguing the point. Everyone is free to voice their opinions. :-)

I am familiar with the Legacy pro offerings as well. They are nice, but you can't compare them to the Noesis and Cats either..I mean retail for a passive Skyline 8 is like $3500 IIRC. You start talking Theater tower or Beast models and they jump way up there, nevermind the Helix or Wavelaunch. Don't get me wrong, I love Legacy since I became familiar and have gotten to listen to them extensively over the last year. I was the first guy to tell a few on Friday that whoever sat in the sweet spot was gonna love the Focus Se's. I haven't heard any of the Helix or Waveluanch, and I'm sure they are great.
post #101 of 568
double tongue.gif
post #102 of 568
Any speaker that has to sell at or near MSRP is already at a disadvantage from the jump.smile.gif
Chris W
post #103 of 568
Here is a couple clips of video I took during the event, sorry if the speakers you wanted to hear are not in it, I only got a few and for a short time redface.gif

post #104 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Any speaker that has to sell at or near MSRP is already at a disadvantage from the jump.smile.gif
Chris W
Yeah, its nice that the Noesis 212HT can be sold below its MSRP. wink.gif

post #105 of 568
To my ears I thought everything other than the C12's were a bit bright for me. Wouldn't stop me from buying Noesis and EQing the hi end.
post #106 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

To my ears I thought everything other than the C12's were a bit bright for me. Wouldn't stop me from buying Noesis and EQing the hi end.

if everything were too bright, then it might be the amplifier used to drive everything, given that the only active/powered speakers there are the C12s
post #107 of 568
Or maybe the style of tweeters?? I've never liked the Klipsch sound and they have horn tweeters.
Edited by SeaNile - 4/15/13 at 3:58pm
post #108 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

To my ears I thought everything other than the C12's were a bit bright for me. Wouldn't stop me from buying Noesis and EQing the hi end.

Or it could be that all objectivity ended when you laid your eyes on those absolutely beautiful 12C's:D.
post #109 of 568
Or it could be the mellowness of the liquid refreshments effects over time biggrin.gif
post #110 of 568
I attended the event and I would like to thank Andrew for the last minute invite, and to his wife for putting up with 25 guys traipsing through and trashing up her house. I want to also thank Andrew for saving me a boatload of money, as I have now come to the conclusion that you don't need to spend a ton of money ($15-20K+) to have one of the best sounding speakers on the market when $6-8-12K is all it takes. I didn't take notes of each speaker and I didn't get to listen to them all, as I was only there during the day (and missed the Seaton Cat12's, damn it!)

I liked the Yorkvilles more than the Noesis. But it was close. Both were played at around 115db, (I like to audition speakers really loud) and I thought the Yorkvilles sounded better at the highs. The high notes seemed more detailed and crisper. I also liked Mike's Legacy Focus SE, as long as your ears were in line with the tweeters, which was crucially important with those speakers. But the Legacy's weren't played at 115db, so it really wasn't a fair fight with the others. This was also the case with the LS6's, but even so, I think I have come to the conclusion that I am not a fan of the line array in big speakers.

For the smaller ones that we listened to, two stood out. The Arx's and the Single 8's. I didn't get to hear Ben's KRK 10-3's so I'm also ticked I missed them (as well at the Cat12's previously mentioned). I really liked the Single 8's and will be buying a bunch of them soon for various places around the house and pool. I was probably the oldest guy there, 57, so my ears are a lot more worn out due to many rock concerts in my youth, as well as NHRA drag races (140-150db for a 4 second blast).eek.gif Most speakers sound warm to me, probably because of this loud sound exposure and excessive wax in my ears at most times, so I don't like most speakers because of the lack of treble and also that they are played too softly. So when I am actually able to hear the tinkle of broken glass, it gets my attention! I got that with the Yorkvilles.

I guess I am also interested in the Seaton Cat's, due to the rave reviews here, (and the pretty cabinets with the high WAF) but I guess they would have to be bought sound unheard (as compared to sight unseen) since I had to leave early to go home to the old ball and chain, lol.biggrin.gif

I was awestruck with the level of audio knowledge of all the attendees, as witnessed by the excellent sound of the numerous DIY speakers I heard and the various conversations about speaker projects that I was privy to. You guys rock.

I really enjoyed meeting you all and had a great time!

Dave
post #111 of 568
How much is the Yorkvilles pair? Thanks.
post #112 of 568
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

How much is the Yorkvilles pair? Thanks.

Most dealers are selling them for 1500-1700 each with shipping, If you look around though, one can typcically find a used pair for that price. smile.gif In all that i've owned I'd consider them to be some of the strongest values (if not the best) out there in this range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

I attended the event and I would like to thank Andrew for the last minute invite, and to his wife for putting up with 25 guys traipsing through and trashing up her house. I want to also thank Andrew for saving me a boatload of money, as I have now come to the conclusion that you don't need to spend a ton of money ($15-20K+) to have one of the best sounding speakers on the market when $6-8-12K is all it takes. I didn't take notes of each speaker and I didn't get to listen to them all, as I was only there during the day (and missed the Seaton Cat12's, damn it!)

I liked the Yorkvilles more than the Noesis. But it was close. Both were played at around 115db, (I like to audition speakers really loud) and I thought the Yorkvilles sounded better at the highs. The high notes seemed more detailed and crisper. I also liked Mike's Legacy Focus SE, as long as your ears were in line with the tweeters, which was crucially important with those speakers. But the Legacy's weren't played at 115db, so it really wasn't a fair fight with the others. This was also the case with the LS6's, but even so, I think I have come to the conclusion that I am not a fan of the line array in big speakers.

For the smaller ones that we listened to, two stood out. The Arx's and the Single 8's. I didn't get to hear Ben's KRK 10-3's so I'm also ticked I missed them (as well at the Cat12's previously mentioned). I really liked the Single 8's and will be buying a bunch of them soon for various places around the house and pool. I was probably the oldest guy there, 57, so my ears are a lot more worn out due to many rock concerts in my youth, as well as NHRA drag races (140-150db for a 4 second blast).eek.gif Most speakers sound warm to me, probably because of this loud sound exposure and excessive wax in my ears at most times, so I don't like most speakers because of the lack of treble and also that they are played too softly. So when I am actually able to hear the tinkle of broken glass, it gets my attention! I got that with the Yorkvilles.

I guess I am also interested in the Seaton Cat's, due to the rave reviews here, (and the pretty cabinets with the high WAF) but I guess they would have to be bought sound unheard (as compared to sight unseen) since I had to leave early to go home to the old ball and chain, lol.biggrin.gif

I was awestruck with the level of audio knowledge of all the attendees, as witnessed by the excellent sound of the numerous DIY speakers I heard and the various conversations about speaker projects that I was privy to. You guys rock.

I really enjoyed meeting you all and had a great time!

Dave

Dave - You're very welcome and great meeting you. Can't believe there are so many local guys - you, me, Mike, and John will have to get together soon. You're welcome to come listen to the Yorks anytime as well.
post #113 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

I'm interested in how the ls6 performed. More specifically, I am interested if anyone noticed effects of comb filtering due to it being a line array.
Some people actually prefer the comb filter effect as that gives the impression of a huge soundstage; however, some argue that in doing so, it no longer sounds realistic. I'd like to see what the good people at this gtg heard.
Danny Richie, the designer, has said the following regarding comb filtering with a design like the LS6's:
Quote:
There is comb filtering effects going on all up and down the line. It's just a matter of what distance you are away from them as to if it is in an audible range or not. It's all distance and frequency dependant.

Put a sub on either side of you 14 feet away and they'll cancel each out at 40Hz right where you are sitting.

The playing surface of the tweeters are a little less than 1" apart. Right in the middle of them they are cancelling each other out at 27kHz.

But there are also comb filtering effects that are taking place from the top of the line to the bottom of the line. You are further away from the tips of the array than you are from the middle of the array. The same goes for a single long driver too.

It's all about distances. Keeping the drivers right on top of each other helps a lot. With woofers it's about distances from acoustic centers (center of the voice coil to center of the voice coil). With a ribbon or planar magnetic driver the whole surface is the voice coil (so to speak) so we typically look at playing surface to playing surface.
Quote:
what you don't want is for the distance differential between drivers in the center of the array (at ear level) to drivers in the top and bottom of the array to become too great. If so then the delay in time will cause cancellations. At a normal listening distances the differential is and inch or so and limits the cancellation (comb filtering effects) to the upper ranges of the top octave.
post #114 of 568
The LS6 will have a chance to show their potential under strong amps at the upcoming Central Iowa Spring Audio GTG at the end of April at dlbecks, along with some of the other heavy hitters.
post #115 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

OK, if you say so.

No doubt that if you are looking for a pro-sound type speaker, any offering from JTR, Seaton, or the others would do.

It would be a fun comparison to put those pro speakers up against Legacy's pro speakers designed for theater use, such as the Double Helix and the Wavelaunch Steerable Arrays. Maybe someday...

Double Helix:
Larger_doubleHelix_pic_208_295.jpg

Wavelaunch Array:
wavelaunch_array_2_web_1_250_188.jpg

I would give it the Pepsi challenge.
post #116 of 568
Honestly though, how many people would have enough room for three of those upfront? Those double helix and wavelaunch arrays are huge.
post #117 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

if everything were too bright, then it might be the amplifier used to drive everything, given that the only active/powered speakers there are the C12s

KRK Rokit 10-3 = active; tri-amped wink.gif
post #118 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Honestly though, how many people would have enough room for three of those upfront? Those double helix and wavelaunch arrays are huge.

I think those pictures are to scale. Just get 15 upfront. 5 for each L/C/R.
post #119 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

True. They are not pro-audio as in commercial oriented slammers. When you say asses kicked, I agree on the heavy power side but disagree on the normal listening levels. Lots of different capabilities were there and I liked hearing the different subtleties of them all. Personally I just think they were somewhat written off from the get go as high cost overkill but when they were being played there was a lot of interest in them. When I heard them playing there in that venue, I thought they blew away all of the previous speakers with respect to quality. I do not feel they would blow away the heavy hitters only because they are not designed to do what those speakers do.
The constant comments on their cost makes me smile. I paid significantly less than you would pay for a pair of Cat 12's. But then who cares... I feel they are two different speaker types for largely different listening styles.

The GTG was big time HT centered. There was an anticipation for listening to the big boys and I feel they were simply going through the paces to get there. Please don't take that as a negative comment as I was looking forward to hearing them myself.

+1. I thought the vocals sounded great with the Legacy, as well as, a number of different instruments, and i was positioned out of the sweet spot for what would be any speaker. Its those ribbon drivers.
post #120 of 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

I will start with the full range... During this I got the idea for an over all speaker grade and broke it down into a few categories: Overall, High, Mids, Lows, Sound Stage / Imaging and Transparency

Please ... PLEASE keep in mind these are my opinions. Just because I say something does not make it "fact".... These were point in time impressions from the event. Given a different room, or a 100 other various variables different results may and probably would occur. In fact, as many noted that even sitting vs. standing produced VERY VERY different results for some speakers. (Caveat ended).

For most of the meet I was about 15/20 degrees off axis but occasionally moved to dead center when I wanted didn't hear what I was expecting and wanted to make sure it was not due to positioning... I learned my lesson during the Legacy test... I thought they were semi-junk till I stood up. Then a light came on...

Full Range

Monitor Audio RX8

Over All - D
Highs - D-
Mids C+
Lows B
Sound Stage / Imaging C-

Highs were very shrill and harsh when pushed. Even when not pushed I found them to be edgy.

Mids lacked some detail and weight this could be because so much was taken up by the bass. As many noted it also could be that the full ranges being less sensitive and efficient were not driven with enough power to fully blossom some of the full range speakers.

Bass was excellent without a sub. It could get a tad boomy but over all very impressed with the Bass.

The sound stage was present but it was not huge and felt fairly thin. Separation occurred but not distinct...it was somewhat muddled.

In all honesty I was not too familiar with Monitor Audio. I have heard the name in passing but this is the first chance I had to listen to them. I couldn't recommend these given the list of negatives they portrayed to me during my listening to them.


Ascend Sierras

Now I really really wanted to hear these guys. I currently own the Ascend CBM-170SE. I have heard so many good things about these. My current speakers also have Raal tweeter so really wanted to hear the differences between the two speakers.

It is NOT that I did not like these speakers. I think my expectations were VERY high and in comparison to some of the speakers we heard...these were not as impressive to me as I had hoped.

As we noted previously ....these were run full range but given their response probably should not have been. So take this all with a grain of salt.

Over All - B
Highs - B-
Mids B
Lows C
Sound Stage / Imaging B

The highs were ultra detailed as one would expect with a Raal, but when pushed they could become shrill and harsh. Only when pushed hard and at the top end.

Mids were detailed and full. I had them at a C+ simply because the speakers felt like they were struggling some (which they probably were) to produce full range bass without support. This did muddle not only the Mids but I felt the imaging somewhat too.

Lows did thump out considering their size. I wouldn't fail them on the bass...it was ok...but was definitely missing weight and some accuracy probably because it could not dig low enough. Again, in defence of the speaker no one has ever said these are full range or near full range speakers.

Sound Stage was fairly wide and imaging was precise but it did get muddled due to the speakers struggling to pump out full range bass. The music did envelop you if not to the degree of some of the others.

I would like to hear these again under different circumstances as it is now though, for their cost, I could recommend them but on not unilaterally...




SVS Ultra Towers

When these got plugged in we all could hear that they sounded ...louder than the speakers that went before. Which was interesting since they did allot of testing to match level.

These were one of the speakers I really wanted to hear. I wanted to test these bad boys out when I was in the market for speakers but a few things positioned me so that I never had the chance.

Let me say that they are good looking speakers but slightly smaller than I thought via pictures...well ok...allot smaller. For some reason I had in my head these things were 6 feet tall.

Overall B (with a fair number of caveats)
Highs - D+ T
Mids C+
Lows A- / B+
Sound Stage / Imaging C-


These seemed to be fairly forward speakers and I could never characterize them as neutral. The highs when pushed were shrill and very harsh.. Let me state again when pushed hard it was almost like finger nails on a chalkboard..but only when pushed very hard.

I am going to go to the lows and skip the mids for a moment... Holy crap the bass was good. Ok...I admit this was a bit more boomy than accurate. I don't know if it is the room etc but even being somewhat boomy it was good. Now saying that the bass so dominated the speakers that it did tend to muddle the mids, highs and heck everything else in the room.

Separation and detail is not this speakers strong suit...but the forward edge and deep heavy bass made this a hella fun speaker to listen too. The harsh highs only came out when really really pressed. I don't think these would be fatiguing to listen to long term unless you were listening to some extreme high sounds for extended periods.

Although these were a "flawed" speaker in the end I found myself really liking them. It is almost as if you know you shouldn't but you do anyway... They put a smile on my face and made my toe tap... They had energy and a great over all feel. These seemed to be more than sum of its parts to me.

One of the comments I heard a few times is these are over priced given the components they had in them... I think given the B&M speakers these are well in line price wise for performance.

Now...would I buy them...tough call but I do fondly think of them...

Sound stage was huge and pervasive...the music enveloped you. Imaging was a little muddled but over all excellent.



Enough for tonight I will do the rest later. It is almost 1 am and work tomorrow.

Beast's LS6s
Legacy Focus SE

Alan, Thanks for all the feedback on the speakers. Your insight is valuable and I know you were positioned real well especially to gauge imaging and soundstage. It was good to meet you. Regards, Robert
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › NE Spring Speaker Shootout results thread - April 13, 2013