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Plasma Presents Problem for Panasonic—Conflicting Messages Cause Confusion - Page 2

post #31 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^You gotta' shell out ~$4500 (and up) to get the LEDs worth a damn, and even those are becoming extinct due to a lack of consumer interest.


LED's becoming extinct due to lack of consumer interest? I dont know how you came up with that due to thats pretty much all that is out there now is LED tv's. CCFL tv's are all but dead and Plasma is barely hanging on so I think LED will be around for quite awhile vinnie.
post #32 of 91
Please re-read my post.

The LOWER cost panels (all of which are edge-lit and which are in no way suitable replacements for plasmas at an equitable price) are being bought up by every undiscerning Tom, Dick, and Harry but not the premiums ($4500+). These full-array products from Sharp Elite (now discontinued) and Sony (I'm fairly confident they're offering no full-array panel this year) are all that remain.

If underperforming edge-lit panels are all that remain of display tech henceforth, those (i.e. me) who strive for the best PQ are in for a world of hurt.
Edited by vinnie97 - 4/22/13 at 10:54am
post #33 of 91
^^The samsung 4K S9 is a FALD, costs only $40.000 smile.gif


There are also the Direct Lit LEDs, which is kind of full array - Seems to have significantly fewer LEDs across the back of the panel compared to a FALD LED.
post #34 of 91
I am really tired of everyone trading lesser quality for convenience or price. It is like, all of a sudden MP3 quality is sufficient everywhere? Plasma certainly has its disadvantages, but I have to see anything even remotely comparable to its quality. My experience is based on Pioneer Kuro, and Panasonic, 103" and 65" professional displays that I am currently using. As far as I am aware, Panasonic professional plasma displays allow for 4K, as an added option. I compared plasmas to other LED screens and I simply cannot believe the difference. Its complete analog and linear nature clearly shows dramatical advantage. First Pioneer, and now Panasonic... A huge loss for anyone who cares about real quality.
post #35 of 91
I have a 42 inch and 50 inch panasonic plasma and as for me the video quality is much better than the lcd/led panels I looked at. The motion blur from watching sporting events was a deal breaker for me on the 60/120 hz led/lcd's. The plasma has no motion blur. The led/lcd do have the ability to drive a brighter screen in well lit rooms but, I have control of lighting in my home so this is not an issue.

I also chose DLP over LCD front projectors for my man cave because of the motion blur in sporting events that I could see on LCD based projectors.



If someone likes LCD/LED over a plasma display thats cool because its their choice. I just wish people would not put down my choice to prefer plasma tv's in my home. If you respect my choice I will respect your choice.
post #36 of 91
I just picked up a 60" Panasonic TC-60PU54 Plasma.

For $798, it's a seemingly unbelievable picture quality and size for the price.

It would be a pity if they stop making these things.
post #37 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by avdoc View Post

As a videophile planning a new display purchase, I have considered a plasma. While the picture may be outstanding, I can't get past the issues of energy use and heat production. I have had to live with components that produced so much heat you had to keep the furnace fan running and turn down the thermostat just to watch a movie comfortably. As someone who drives a hybrid, it's hard for me to justify a display technology that uses x3 the energy of another. I'm willing to compromise on image quality if the display is energy efficient and cool. I think a lot of other people feel the same way. Unless these issues can be fixed, and it doesn't sound like they will be, plasma is obsolete.

The issue over plasmas' heat and energy use are red herrings: My own experience with the 42" and 55" plasmas in my house is that they do run warm, but certainly not enough to heat a room or even to be noticeable from two feet away. As far as energy use goes, these sets might add a dollar or so to my monthly bill (vis-à-vis LED sets), but the leap in picture quality (and the massive savings over equivalent-quality LED sets) is more than worth it. Plasma is admittedly not for everyone -- it makes demands of its owners that LCD technology just doesn't make -- but the best plasma sets reward viewers with a picture LCD has yet to match. Until that changes, it would be tragic to see plasma die as an option for set buyers.
post #38 of 91
Here is my 2 cents. I have a samsung plasma 720p and I've had 2 sony's. 1 sony lcd & 1 sony led, lcd both 120 htz 1080hd they look good but I walk past my plasma I can't help thinking to myself dam the color of that plasma beats them both.
post #39 of 91
Here we go again.....AM vs. FM, Betamax vs. VHS, Blu-Ray vs. whatever-the-hell-the-other-format-was...sometimes being the best is just not good enough...

I heartily agree with a previous post, though...it would be a real shame if they discontinue this technology before 4K or whatever is ubiquitous enough to be affordably-priced...I LOVE my 42" Panny plasma and I'm starting a savings fund now to hopefully grab one of the last Panasonic plasmas before they disappear as a hedge against the inevitible death of my 2008!
post #40 of 91
I have a new 50" plasma and a new 32 " LCD I bought them both in January while both have very good pictures the nod of course goes to the Plasma .
not a room heater either and image retention with ps3 is minimal and goes away with normal viewing .plays PS3 well and is Great for movies !
For their respective uses in my case they are both just fine.
post #41 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^You gotta' shell out ~$4500 (and up) to get the LEDs worth a damn, and even those are becoming extinct due to a lack of consumer interest.

It is puzzling, because he had a plasma before that which broke... It was pretty apparent from the get go that the image quality wasn't as good... Oh well, not my T.V!
Quote:
Originally Posted by twowings View Post

Here we go again.....AM vs. FM, Betamax vs. VHS, Blu-Ray vs. whatever-the-hell-the-other-format-was...sometimes being the best is just not good enough...

I heartily agree with a previous post, though...it would be a real shame if they discontinue this technology before 4K or whatever is ubiquitous enough to be affordably-priced...I LOVE my 42" Panny plasma and I'm starting a savings fund now to hopefully grab one of the last Panasonic plasmas before they disappear as a hedge against the inevitible death of my 2008!

I wonder how large a set needs to be before you can notice 4k vs 1080p... I can't help but think a projector might be necessary to throw an image that large...
Edited by nr5667 - 4/22/13 at 4:11pm
post #42 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by avdoc View Post

As a videophile planning a new display purchase, I have considered a plasma. While the picture may be outstanding, I can't get past the issues of energy use and heat production. I have had to live with components that produced so much heat you had to keep the furnace fan running and turn down the thermostat just to watch a movie comfortably. As someone who drives a hybrid, it's hard for me to justify a display technology that uses x3 the energy of another. I'm willing to compromise on image quality if the display is energy efficient and cool. I think a lot of other people feel the same way. Unless these issues can be fixed, and it doesn't sound like they will be, plasma is obsolete.

Do plasmas generate more heat than a widescreen CRT? I was under the impression they are more energy efficient than a CRT - granted, I'm considering replacing a 34" CRT with a 60" plasma, so maybe I might not be getting much energy savings, but my CRT doesn't heat up my room. Plasmas may cost $38/year v. $17/year for LED, but even over 10 years that doesn't make up the price difference, and I think I'll still be saving quite a bit over my CRT. Screen viewing angle is the killer - that's why I wouldn't consider LED, and PQ is the other big criteria in a TV. I think most people here are uncompromising videophiles, and like audiophiles that would handily pay hundreds more for an amplifier with slightly more power and headroom, they'd sacrifice a few dollars a year on energy costs for PQ. But the general public is stupid and just look at things like vivid brightness pop and dollars for screen size.
post #43 of 91
Not all Plasma displays are the same. Panasonic by far offers the best Plasma displays in the world. I cannot see them abandoning plasma, though I can see them restructuring there resources in favour of OLED while still keeping a dedicated team for Plasma Technology.
post #44 of 91
Well if they make a Passive plasma i would be all over it and if its 4k it would sweeten the deal
post #45 of 91
From someone who has been selling TV's the past 3yrs (granted Australia is a fairly miniscule market) - there's no availability! If you wanted a VT plasma in 2012, there was a 900 panel backorder - to Panasonic - before you even thought about getting yours from a retailer.

That and like earlier mentioned - marketing. People who search on the net are the only ones aware of the benefits of plasma. Every Mum & Dad who walks in to a shop wants an LED "because their friends said Plasmas aren't any good" - if Panasonic marketed their ST, VT & ZT panels as "the best cinema experience" and gave away calibration discs instead of copies of frigging Avatar, they would find there's a larger enthusiast market out there that would be interested in what they're offering.

Sad to see it go this way, I love my GT30, but like mentioned it seems OLED is the future so LED & Plasma will probably both die off eventually, but until then, there'll always be the sub $500, 50" plasma market, but they're not approaching the high end enthusiast market correctly.
post #46 of 91
I own 2 2012 Panny models, the first Plama's I have ever owned. My concerns early on were pretty universal. Picture quality in a well lit room can be actually pretty poor. We've all seen what they look like in a Walmart or Costco next to LED or LCD flat panel TV's. The picture usually looks absolutely terrible due to all that light and reflection on the glossy glass screens. it was one reason I always ignored plamas. But after owning and testing numerous flat panel LCD and LED tv's and computer monitors I got very tired of what I now consider a flawed technology. If you think about it backlit or side lit liquid crystal is available in everything from GPS units to smart phones. The major weakness, and it's a big problem in back and side lit LCD products is what I refer to as light bleed-through, grey glow on black, or off axis viewing dullness. every product of flat panel LCD has this issue to one degree or another.

People accept a terribly flawed technology. It's nearly a non-issue in Smart Phones or something like a grocery store checkout screen, but where the issue becomes a problem is in LCD and LED computer monitors and TV's, or even smart phones when watching entertainment or when gaming. With computer monitors you can't view from too far left or right, above or below the screen or you are out of the sweet spot and things start to dull and look washed out. This is most noticable when the screen requires a lot of darkness in the material. Your not looking at deep or near black, but instead glowing dull gray. The same applies to nearly every LCD and LED TV on the market to one degree or another. The worst are the cheaper ones like Sansui or Vizio. But even Sony, Samsung, Sharp, JVC, etc have the problem. CRT LCD was a fantastic technology because you could have fairly high resolution while producing near perfect black without viewing axis issues, but of course it's impossible for manufacturers to make those with 65" screens. They would be massive, would cost a lot of money and would weigh in excess of 400 pounds. Instead they made LCD into flat panels using backlights and the world simply agreed to it. But it's shamefully a flawed technology.

Even the best flat panel tv on the market presently presents a much better picture, better viewing axis and better blacks. That would be the Elite series TV's. But next time you have a chance to see one at a showroom or friends house, go tap your fingers on the screen and watch the glory of all those white bleedthrough bursts grace your presence, I was very surprised that starting at over $7000 a world class TV would have such an unforgivable weakness. I got so tired of these weaknesses that I put my flat panel computer monitors in storage after purchasing a couple of higher end used Sony 22" CRT monitors at a thrift store for about $8 each, and man am I glad I did. I forgot how much I was missing, especially when watching movies or playing games that take place in the dark. Now when I want black, it's black. That means incredible contrast ratios that the best backlit LED lcd can't match.

Sadly this can't be said for Panny plasma's. Both of my models produce better blacks than any LCD or LED flat panel, and that's fantastic, but they can't do anything near true black. I see this painfully true when the room is dark and there are scenes on my screen that require a lot of darkness to be seen properly. My screen is not in black territory, but rather dull glowing grey. I purchased plasma expecting black when black is required. That is the main reason people purchased Plasma over LCD. Now I realize as far as current Plasma models are concerned it's a flawed technology too. Between reflection issues of the screen, bad performance in a room with a lot of light, and lack of ability to produce the deepest blacks, Plasma is almost as weak as LCD flat panel.

I've caerfully checked over nearly every flat panel LCD and LED flat panel TV's and monitors on the market. Best Buy in their dimmed viewing area is the best place to do it. They all have some off axis viewing issue, they all are incapable of producing the deepest blacks, and all have weaknesses. The future appears to be via LED backlit where tens of thousand LED's switch on and off individually to produce the richest color and deepest blacks. They are getting better and better at it, and as this continues it will leave plasma in the dust. Still plasma in a room with dim light blows just about anything away which is why I don't regret selling off my LCD tv's.
post #47 of 91
I have an old PZ80U 42" and have had no problems what so ever with it. The only time I have had a problem with heat is if the picture settings are set to vivid or near vivid . The LED-LCD and LCD TVs have a tendancy to be more blinding than just bright. I have an LG 39" LCD in my den and if I dim the lights I have to turn the backlight to the low setting to comfortably view most programming. I also have an older cable connection that does not require a digital box. The plasma tv has a much higher quality picture when viewing the old analog cable content. I do have an antenna that allows for digital and HD broadcast programming and the LCD is quite good with HD but so so with digital and not nearly as good as the old Panasonic plasma . I hope Panasonic does not give up on PDP.
post #48 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

How much would a 50" LCD with equal or better overall picture quality cost!?

.
Easy, nothing, they don't exist. Literally not a single LCD anywhere with better IQ then a 1080p plasma. Mater of fact its not even a contest. LCD's are color limited. Plasma displays all colors. LCD darkest blacks are really just dark gray. Plasma black is black. LCD response times are measurable. Plasma is instant.
Plasma's weakness is the showroom do the glass screen. They are to reflective in super bright environments and make the picture appear dark. But LCD's that are really bright, non reflective with oversaturated colors catch the eye. Plasma wins in IQ hands down.
post #49 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfbg77 View Post

I am really tired of everyone trading lesser quality for convenience or price. It is like, all of a sudden MP3 quality is sufficient everywhere?

Agreed.

 

Or, compressed-to-death low-res NetFlix/Amazon Streaming in Pro-Logic over real 1080p Blu-Ray in HD sound.

 

It's almost like as long as the video or music quality is as good as cable-TV or the FM radio ... they are happy. Or, lets just watch the movie on my phone or iPad ... sure, why not.  confused.gif

post #50 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowride View Post

The motion blur from watching sporting events was a deal breaker for me on the 60/120 hz led/lcd's. The plasma has no motion blur.

 

I bought (and helped my brother buy) 3 Panasonic plasmas over the years ... mostly because of this reason. It's motion blur and pixelation artifacts (like it can't keep-up).

 

Since it looks like my next 1080p TV might have to be a LCD, what's up with this? I asked before and people say it's fixed. Is it only fixed (performing like high speed plasma) on newer tech LCD? What tech is it that cures it ... Is it 240Hz, IPS Screen, better processor ... what?

post #51 of 91
Reminds me of VHS vs Beta. Of all the things that motivate the critical mass of consumers quality always seems to be the first to go. Glad my Kuros are still going strong.
post #52 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by kroot10105 View Post

I have an old PZ80U 42" and have had no problems what so ever with it. The only time I have had a problem with heat is if the picture settings are set to vivid or near vivid . The LED-LCD and LCD TVs have a tendancy to be more blinding than just bright. I have an LG 39" LCD in my den and if I dim the lights I have to turn the backlight to the low setting to comfortably view most programming. I also have an older cable connection that does not require a digital box. The plasma tv has a much higher quality picture when viewing the old analog cable content. I do have an antenna that allows for digital and HD broadcast programming and the LCD is quite good with HD but so so with digital and not nearly as good as the old Panasonic plasma . I hope Panasonic does not give up on PDP.

That's old? I have a Panasonic TH-42PA20 ... way back from 2004. No heat problems, no delays, no image retention and still beautiful blacks after almost 10 years. Yes, it's an ED panel, forget about 720p let alone 4K, but the picture quality is still outstanding, especially considering the theoretical resolution. Most of the friends watching HD programming on my TV have no idea it's an ED panel ...
post #53 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Plasma marketing in general has taken a beat down from LCD (LED). A 50" S60 is $700. How much would a 50" LCD with equal or better overall picture quality cost!?

I can only imagine what "Joe consumer" must be thinking when he sees all those TVs lining the walls and BBY. One thing they ARE NOT thinking is, "let me see the latest plasma displays". The age of the informed consumer is yet come, that's for sure.
THE AGE OF THE INFORMED CONSUMER WILL NEVER COME. THEY ARE TOO LAZY TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK, WHICH THEY LEARNED NOT TO DO IN SCHOOL!
post #54 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja-ss-1334 View Post

Sadly this can't be said for Panny plasma's. Both of my models produce better blacks than any LCD or LED flat panel, and that's fantastic, but they can't do anything near true black. I see this painfully true when the room is dark and there are scenes on my screen that require a lot of darkness to be seen properly. My screen is not in black territory, but rather dull glowing grey. I purchased plasma expecting black when black is required. That is the main reason people purchased Plasma over LCD. Now I realize as far as current Plasma models are concerned it's a flawed technology too. Between reflection issues of the screen, bad performance in a room with a lot of light, and lack of ability to produce the deepest blacks, Plasma is almost as weak as LCD flat panel.
The 2013 Panasonics (VT60, confirmed, and ZT60 should at least match if not topple the former) look to be going deeper than any plasma that has preceded it (Kuros included), if the recent UK review holds true for North America.
post #55 of 91
It will be a sad day indeed if Panasonic, the manufacturer of the absolute best plasma sets available really stops production in 2014. Since OLED panels at the price of plasma won't happen any time soon, we can only wonder why the average consumer would rather buy inferior LCD/LED sets than plasma even though they are more costly. Sure you can buy several cheap entry level LCD sets for less than entry level plasma but you get what you pay for too. Entry level plasma sets are simply better but if cheapest TV price is your motivation then I can at least understand the logic but it ends at the entry level because mid and top of the line LED sets still cannot compare to the quality of the less expensive mid and top of the line plasma sets so why anyone would choose anything but plasma in those price ranges is beyond me. It's like buying a Chrysler when you could have gotten a Lexus for the same price. It just makes no sense.

The new Panasonic Z Series line is reported to be the first and only set to not only match but exceed the black levels of the legendary Pioneer Kuros and while it would be quite a swansong for Panny plasma technology, it would be a kick in the nards for the videophile community to finally see the Kuro surpassed by Panasonic Z series and suffer the same fate all at the same time.

I own a Panny V series plasma and a Sharp Aquos LED set and there is no comparison. It's not even in the same stratosphere. The Aquos is a very good LED set and it's fine for the bedroom but I'd never use anything but a Panny V or Z series plasma as my main set as long as they're still available. In fact, I only have the LED because I couldn't get a plasma under 42" which was too big for the area it had to fit in the bedroom.

Maybe the problem is marketing or Panasonic's lack thereof. You never see a commercial or print ad for Panasonic plasma TV's so by failing to remind people that plasma is not only the superior technology but that it costs less too, they have given LED the illusion of superiority and that alone could be reason enough for the baffling drop in plasma sales. Maybe an all out media marketing blitz is the only thing that can save Panasonic plasma from extinction but the question is, does Panasonic even want to save it? If Panasonic's run as the undisputed king of plasma ends in ceased production after 2014, I may have to switch to a projector based home theater.
post #56 of 91
Control rooms in TV studios are never going to go to LCD or LED. As noted in other posts here, these technologies are too bright (hurts the eyes in dark rooms when you're doing a strenuous job and looking at multiple monitors); there are too many artifacts (especially motion blur); and the colors are impossible to calibrate properly. You can't really turn an LCD or LED panel down to the right level, or it looks dull and washed out. I just got a new laptop computer that has a white LED backlight, and even after calibrating the white point to 5000K, it hurts my eyes to use it for more than an hour. I have no problems with my eyes watching the plasma, not even for a long sports event or an opera.

My solution to the problem of Panasonic plasmas going out was to buy a 2nd one and put it in storage. When the first one dies, I have an exact replacement for it. Everyone who sees it marvels at the PQ and the accurate color. And I did NO calibration! This was a professional studio monitor, and the calibration was correct out of the box, although there are multiple controls for tweaking it. When I put a VHQ calibration disc on and view the color patterns and the gray scale ramps, there are perfect blacks, perfectly scaled grays, distinguishable shades of white at the upper end. A perfect monitor.

Granted, this is a 2008 720p model (I bought it in 2010), and only 37" (don't laugh, I live in a small apartment and don't have room for anything bigger). I went for 720p on purpose, because I have a lot of SD 480i material, and I didn't want to have the large scaling artifacts I would get jacking material from 480i to 1080p. Paired with an Edge video processor, which has good aspect ratio controls, I get no burn in, great pictures, and so on. No heat problem, and the electric bills have gone down compared to my old CRT.

If you are ever in New York, drop by the lobby of the Metropolitan Opera House. They have two of these same monitors (even older versions) on the columns next to the box office. They have been going full tilt, 16 hours a day, seven days a week, since they were installed. And the PQ is still great. Seeing them is what sold me on the models.

Panasonic also makes a series of "hospitality suite" LCD panels for hotel use. I got one of these for my daughter. It has decent PQ and color quality for an LCD, but I still much prefer the plasma.

I think that even if Panasonic gets out of consumer plasma, they will continue to make professional monitors in plasma (and by the way, the warranty is two years instead of one). True videophiles will still have the option of buying a professional monitor. No tuner (who needs one in the day of cable and satellite transmission); no speakers (add your own, or buy the addons that Panny makes to go with the panel); not even a stand or wall mount (they must be bought separately, and the stand is proprietary). These items drive the cost up a bit. In return you get rock solid color calibration, a much more robust power supply, and a longer warranty. Better parts in general. Do not lose hope.
post #57 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja-ss-1334 View Post

Sadly this can't be said for Panny plasma's. Both of my models produce better blacks than any LCD or LED flat panel, and that's fantastic, but they can't do anything near true black. I see this painfully true when the room is dark and there are scenes on my screen that require a lot of darkness to be seen properly. My screen is not in black territory, but rather dull glowing grey. I purchased plasma expecting black when black is required. That is the main reason people purchased Plasma over LCD. Now I realize as far as current Plasma models are concerned it's a flawed technology too. Between reflection issues of the screen, bad performance in a room with a lot of light, and lack of ability to produce the deepest blacks, Plasma is almost as weak as LCD flat panel..


Questions:

a) What models do you have? Cheaper plasmas, naturally, don't always show the technology at its best -- although Panasonic's new step-down S60 and ST60 lines just got a lot of love from CNET for having great picture quality at a reasonable price point.

b) Have you calibrated your sets? A mediocre set that's been calibrated will easily outperform an uncalibrated higher-end set. Even if you don't want to go through the expense of a professional calibration, using a calibration disk such as Spears & Munsil, DVE HD Basics or Disney WOW will get you close to the absolute best picture your sets can deliver.
post #58 of 91
The following is the most important piece of information I read, because it speaks to production and financial direction of the company.
Quote:
Panasonic planned to end plasma TV panel production at its main plant in Amagaskai in western Japan around fiscal year 2014, the Nikkei said, adding that the company had already written off the value of production equipment there. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/18/us-panasonic-plasmatv-idUSBRE92H00020130318

Combine this with the drop in sales (not the first year for the drop) and you can see that plasma is on the way out. I don't think that it's going to be just Panasonic either. Samsung's sales haven't been that hot in the plasma department either and if not for their other offerings they might be in exactly the same position as Panasonic. I just can't see them putting more money into plasma either. LG seems to be stepping back. Vizio? I don't think so.

We are a dying breed. All I can do is hope for a better future with great viewing angles, and inky blacks that aren't the result of the tv turning off.

BTW: I hate that Panasonic didn't give NA a GT60. mad.gif
post #59 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by akakpdx View Post

Questions:

a) What models do you have? Cheaper plasmas, naturally, don't always show the technology at its best -- although Panasonic's new step-down S60 and ST60 lines just got a lot of love from CNET for having great picture quality at a reasonable price point.

b) Have you calibrated your sets? A mediocre set that's been calibrated will easily outperform an uncalibrated higher-end set. Even if you don't want to go through the expense of a professional calibration, using a calibration disk such as Spears & Munsil, DVE HD Basics or Disney WOW will get you close to the absolute best picture your sets can deliver.

Thanks for the reply. Both are entry level 50U50's, 2012 models. CNET reviews as far as image quality stated the image was excellent while not quite matching up to the best image quality of higher end models, it's none the less very impressive an image. And yes certainly I have calibrated both of them using my older Avia and DVE discs. Minimal calibration options compared to the dozens of digital home theater and business projectors I calibrated in the past. I will say so far the best blacks I've seen on anything other than CRT I have seen on both these plasma's. While not quite CRT level, it's still pretty impressive, just not capable of recreating the deepest blacks CRT can. And of course there have been more than a dozen CNET articles charging Panny plasma's with deminishing blacks over the first 500 hours of use. In some cases so much so that it became a major problem Panasonic had to try and remedy. They claim that new models released on the market late 2011, early 2012 models and onward will not suffer but a slight drop in black levels the first 500 hours, then maintain good blacks with no further loss for the remainder of the life of the TV. 2012 models including the 50U50 are included according to Panasonic tech support when I spoke with them.

My experience with recommended calibration of brightness and contrast at 50 and in cinema mode, as well as other recommended viewing such as using zoom with 2.35:1 aspect material did not prevent a sudden and rather obvious black level drop in the 1st week of operation of both TV's. For the first 10 hours of use both Panny's had near perfect black, but that gave way to the current less impressive blacks that are pretty dark dull grey within the next 10-15 hours. The drop is nearly identicle for both Panny's.. I'm up to about the 400 hour point on both sets. Black level in that time has noticably deminished even further but it's been slow and subtle, but it is obvious, and it is dissapointing. I hear Samsung models start off with even less impressive black reproduction that is painfully noticable compared to panny models. That Samsung models already have less than stellar blacks that I have read are intentional so that degration is never noticed because their plasma models are calibrated in such a way as to avoid degration of blacks at the expense of rather lackluster blacks from the offset. Am I not correct that even the top Panny models cannot reproduce total black and that only the Kuros models can? Or is that incorrect? I've read that in numerous tech reviews? If that is the case then the blacks the best Panny plasma can do wouldn't be all that much better than what my two models are doing. Because speaking frankley the blacks of my models look totally black so long as there is at least minimal light in the room and the source material is not too dark.

The way to find out easily if the panny any given person owns is producing black or not is to put a totally dark image on the screen. Turn off all the lights so that the room is completely dark, let your eyes adjust for a minute or so, then look at your TV. I'm betting your going to see a dim grey glow of one level or another rather than black., but I am curious how much better in such viewing conditions the top model Panny plasmas are at true black. Feedback would be nice. Those who have attempted such a senario. It's the ultimate test.
Edited by Natja-ss-1334 - 4/22/13 at 10:18pm
post #60 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Plasma marketing in general has taken a beat down from LCD (LED). A 50" S60 is $700. How much would a 50" LCD with equal or better overall picture quality cost!?

I can only imagine what "Joe consumer" must be thinking when he sees all those TVs lining the walls and BBY. One thing they ARE NOT thinking is, "let me see the latest plasma displays". The age of the informed consumer is yet come, that's for sure.

They're thinking that they have no fear, no fear of burn-in. Plasma has not over come that even though it rarely happens anymore without extreme abuse. CNet brought that fear back up to the surface last year. Sales people at BB don't help with that at all either, it's the rare salesperson who can really help a buyer overcome their plasma fears and bring them up to date on current offerings. Whose fault is that? The manufacturers, they haven't done enough.

Also, a large number of people today don't do a darn thing after they plug in their new tvs, they don't do anything, no adjustments at all.
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