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Mitsubishi HC7900DW owner's thread - Page 6

post #151 of 980
I sent you a pm!
post #152 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

Thanks for the explanation, but if DLP is limited to 2500:1 why is my Sharp DT-510 rated at 4000:1 without a dynamic iris? How does BenQ fake their contrast specs without using an iris? In any case the BenQ is certainly closer to its claimed 10 000:1 than the Mits is to its absurdly claimed 150 000:1.

Isn't DLP still better than LCD in terms of contrast? Why have I seen LCDs rated at things like 600 000:1, is that just as fraudulent as the Mitsubishi's 150 000:1? Would an LCD rated at 600 000:1 look much better than the HC7900DW?

I think LCOS is out of my price range, at what price do 1080p LCOS projectors start at?

I think another issue is that by projecting on a wall the not-so-black bars above and below wide movies are clearly brighter than above and below the projection which is real black, my DT-510 shoots on a screen with a black border around the image which hides the not so black bars, I think once I have a proper screen with black borders the blacks won't bother me as much. It's mostly the projectors blacks against the "real" black outside of the projected image on the wall that bother me, the contrast within the image is pretty good.

About the image going blank every few minutes for a few seconds, it has never done it when sending a 720p signal for hours, I thought it was my super cheap HDMI adjustable angle connector behind the PC degrading the signal too much so I removed it and put it back to 1080p and the image has gone blank at least once so far without the adapter. I definitely think the image going blank is a signal transmission issue and not a problem with the projector, it seems like the 1080p signal is getting some corruption every now and then causing the projector to "reset". What can I do about this?

Thanks

Sounds like a setting issue at this point. You can change the black level (i.e. where 0 IRE is offset).

I don't know why you think the Benq W1070 has higher contrast than the 7900, they are going to be roughly similar due to similar technology, and the iris on the 7900 is probably going to perform better with some moderate DI. Marketing on/off contrast numbers are just that - marketing. I'm not sure why you think they have a great deal to with reality when watching a projector. Some LCDs are worse than DLPs, some are better when it comes to contrast.

LCOS stuff is going to run about $2-2.5k for a refurb JVC.
post #153 of 980
So I thought it was time to upgrade from my venerable Marantz 12s4 that I've had for 7 years now, and I thought this 7900 would be perfect with the deal from TigerDirect. Just wanted to get more current as far as 1080p and 3d, even though the picture on the Marantz is still spectacular for a 720p projector.

7900 came yesterday so I unboxed it and placed it on a shelf under the Marantz at approximately the center of the screen as described in the manual, turned it on and the picture was 80% on the ceiling. Played with the settings a little, but obviously it wasn't right. I am returning it as TD will not exchange (even though they are still selling these). It's available on the Egg now without the 3d emitter and glasses, I might watch it there and see.

Put the Marantz back in, it's still hard to beat for blacks and just looks great overall for a 720p high end unit.
post #154 of 980
BTW - can anybody answer if the OEM bare bulbs are really just $129 for this projector? The full bulb assembly (OEM) looks to be about $350.
post #155 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrunow View Post

So I thought it was time to upgrade from my venerable Marantz 12s4 that I've had for 7 years now, and I thought this 7900 would be perfect with the deal from TigerDirect. Just wanted to get more current as far as 1080p and 3d, even though the picture on the Marantz is still spectacular for a 720p projector.

7900 came yesterday so I unboxed it and placed it on a shelf under the Marantz at approximately the center of the screen as described in the manual, turned it on and the picture was 80% on the ceiling. Played with the settings a little, but obviously it wasn't right. I am returning it as TD will not exchange (even though they are still selling these). It's available on the Egg now without the 3d emitter and glasses, I might watch it there and see.

Put the Marantz back in, it's still hard to beat for blacks and just looks great overall for a 720p high end unit.

Did you try adjusting lens shift (the knob under the small door on top)? Did you check this projector's offset and lens shift range before buying? Are you placing the 7900 above or below the screen and are you placing it right side up or upside down? If the projector is above the screen it MUST be upside down otherwise it will project on the ceiling instead of the screen.
Edited by aab1 - 1/3/14 at 5:25pm
post #156 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPS13 View Post

BTW - can anybody answer if the OEM bare bulbs are really just $129 for this projector? The full bulb assembly (OEM) looks to be about $350.

You should be able to find one for less than $100. It is a OSRAM P-VIP 240/0.8 E20.8. Fairly common bulb.
post #157 of 980
I had ordered a white 1.2 gain 106" screen from Staples.ca about 3 weeks ago and it still hasn't shipped so I canceled the order. Since the blacks aren't as black as I was expecting them to be, I'm wondering if I should go with a gray screen instead, what do you think?

Thanks
post #158 of 980
I had initially bought an Elunevision Triton in Grey and replaced it with an Elunevision Titan in white (both 106"), the white has by far better PQ. The grey has better blacks but was all around too dim and muddy. I was not pleased with the overall picture quality of this projector while I had the grey screen. After upgrading to the white I am stunned by how much better it looks. The colours are better, the contrast range has actually improved (I feel I've gained more in the whites than I've lost in the blacks). All in all I think that unless you can splurge for a high end, high-gain grey screen, you really should stick with white.

FYI, I find my black levels to be more than acceptable with the white screen. Brightness at zero, contrast -5, Iris 3, Setup on Auto and gamma on 2.2. This of course assumes no ambient light.

Also, if you're ordering an elunevision screen (I'm assuming Elunevision as Staples.ca has no oither 106"), you should go through Eastporter.com extremely quick shipping and they've been very responsive to support requests.
post #159 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrillho View Post

I had initially bought an Elunevision Triton in Grey and replaced it with an Elunevision Titan in white (both 106"), the white has by far better PQ. The grey has better blacks but was all around too dim and muddy. I was not pleased with the overall picture quality of this projector while I had the grey screen. After upgrading to the white I am stunned by how much better it looks. The colours are better, the contrast range has actually improved (I feel I've gained more in the whites than I've lost in the blacks). All in all I think that unless you can splurge for a high end, high-gain grey screen, you really should stick with white.

FYI, I find my black levels to be more than acceptable with the white screen. Brightness at zero, contrast -5, Iris 3, Setup on Auto and gamma on 2.2. This of course assumes no ambient light.

Also, if you're ordering an elunevision screen (I'm assuming Elunevision as Staples.ca has no oither 106"), you should go through Eastporter.com extremely quick shipping and they've been very responsive to support requests.

Thanks, I'll stick with white. I had got the Triton manual pull down, what is the Titan series, from a quick search it seems to be motorized tab tensionned, is that right? In any case it's 3 times the price and out of my price range. Other than the gray, is there something you didn't like about the Triton model since that's what I had ordered and am thinking of re ordering the same?

By the way, I read that some motorized elune vision screens take 1 minute to come down, I find this a considerably long amount of time to wait, are the higher end electric elune vision screens as slow to come down? Do all elune vision electric screens support the 12v trigger from a projector? In any case I can't afford the higher end models for now.

Thanks
post #160 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

Thanks, I'll stick with white. I had got the Triton manual pull down, what is the Titan series, from a quick search it seems to be motorized tab tensionned, is that right? In any case it's 3 times the price and out of my price range. Other than the gray, is there something you didn't like about the Triton model since that's what I had ordered and am thinking of re ordering the same?

By the way, I read that some motorized elune vision screens take 1 minute to come down, I find this a considerably long amount of time to wait, are the higher end electric elune vision screens as slow to come down? Do all elune vision electric screens support the 12v trigger from a projector? In any case I can't afford the higher end models for now.

Thanks

Yes the Titan is the Tab-Tensioned Motorized version. It was out of my comfort-zone as far as price goes but at the end of the day it was worth the extra in my opinion. Initially I was going with the cheap manual pulldown so I could keep the Plasma up for the kids/casual viewing and once I convinced the wife of the awesomness of a huge projection screen, I'd transition the Plasma upstairs and go with a fixed-frame DIY. Well the Triton broke within 5 minutes of hanging it, and the screen retracted up by itself very forcefully (thankfully it went straight up and didn't smash my TV behind it) this ripped the bottom corners out of the frame and distorted the picture significantly.

I was given the option of a straight replacement or paying the difference and upgrading. I did some reading and it seemed like a common problem with manual pulldowns so I did not want to try that route again. I had looked at the Luna which is the cheaper non-tensioned motorized screen from Elunevision but without a drop limiter it was useless for my application.

I figured the extra couple hundred between the Titan and the Luna was well worth it and went that way. As a disclaimer, the drop-limiter on my Titan does not seem to work but I have had very responsive service from the guys at eastporters and I've got no worries that this won't get sorted.

The drop takes about 15-20 seconds to get to where I need it. For now I do have to manually stop it with the remote but once I get the limiter working, I'll be using the 12v trigger to automate it.

The Luna does not appear to have a 12v trigger port, nor does it have a drop limiter. This means if you need it to stop any shorter than full extension you'd be doing the up down dance with the remote to place it just right. With the manual pull-down this was also the case but more annoying, it never sticks at the same place and then you need to retract and try again.

All in all, I think that the price of the Titan is worth considering, it is the best price I've seen on a Tab-Tensioned screen and the PQ is very good with the HC7900. I do not have a frame of reference for anything higher-end so take that last part with a grain of salt.
post #161 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

You should be able to find one for less than $100. It is a OSRAM P-VIP 240/0.8 E20.8. Fairly common bulb.

Interesting... I'm considering this projector just because I don't see a 1080P LED projector in a reasonable form factor happening for the next couple of years around the $1k mark.

It also seems Mitsubishis generally got good lamp life(close to their rated amount), whereas you can't say that for all manufacturers.
post #162 of 980
BTW - I'm having a lot of trouble finding direct comparisons between the Benq W1070 and the HC7900DW. Has anybody viewed both? Thoughts on their relative performance?


I'm thinking the 7900 is probably going to throw a little higher contrast image at the expense of a little less peak brightness in torch mode. I only have a 110" screen, so I think I am fine with the brightness of the 7900 even in 3D. But it's hard to find much direct head to head stuff on these projectors sense the 7900 originally was priced about double the W1070 (but that sometimes doesn't tell the whole story on their performance).
post #163 of 980
I think I'll still go with the manual for now as I wasn't even planning on getting a new projector but my Sharp DT-510's color wheel failed several times, I keep fixing it but I'm not sure how longer it will last. My last fix was to soak the color wheel and its motor in 70% alcohol (it no longer spinned freely due to gunk build up which prevented it from reaching the proper RPM) and it works like new since I did that. I was thinking of selling it with the problem it had mentioned but I might keep it as a space since my projector is the only TV I have.

About the contrast that dissapointed me on the HC7900DW, I decided to watch the same dark scene HD videos I found on YouTube to test it on my Sharp DT-510, and it is in fact significantly worst than I remembered it, so the HC7900DW is in fact better than my previous Sharp, but still nowhere near the absurd claim of 150 000:1. I test black "darkness" by putting my hand in the light path over a black area of the projection (such as black bars) and look at the difference between the black projected and the "true" black created by the shadow of my hand. If a projector could make the same black as literally blocking the light path that would create incredible contrast ratios.

Considering other projectors in my price range wouldn't be any better I'm very happy with it. I'm particularly impressed by the 1080p resolution after being used to 720p and the brightness is more than I was expecting. If I try to see it or in scenes prone to it, I do see more color separation than my Sharp which has a 5x wheel but it's still not a problem, I was trying to stick with 5x or more for my new projector since rainbows aren't a problem at all on my Sharp but figured the HC7900DW would be worth a color wheel speed downgrade for the other benefits. If I put it in 6x more at 24hz color separation becomes virtually impossible to see and video is still very watchable, so if ever I have guests that are bothered by it at 4x, the 6x mode is a good temporary solution for sensitive guests.
post #164 of 980
Quick review - Epson 5030ub vs HC7900DW blacks, shadow details, sharpness, 3D and motion.

This is my first projector and I have had it for about a month now. Previous TV was calibrated 58" Panasonic plasma. I still have it and just pull the projector screen over the front on it. My room is fairly light in color but is very dark as far as ambient light is concerned. I am running a 106" screen and was running a 92" prior to this one. I sit 14.5 ft from the screen. I have black fabric on the ceiling in front of the screen to help with reflection.

Interesting to finally see this owners thread come to life. I am going to share my 2 cents on this projector compared to the highly rated Epson 5030ub. I ended up getting the 5030 about 2 week ago to see what all the hype is about. I was not able to project the images next to each other for comparisons so I ended up having to do a lot of pausing and switching projectors to view the same scenes. I have mostly stuck with projector reviews calibration settings but tweaked contrast and brightness slightly using avs709 test patterns also considering eye comfort.

I have to agree the black level is certainly better for the 5030 than the 7900 but it seems to be hurting the overall shadow detail of the 5030. On darker scenes the detail is almost non existent compared to the 7900. The 5030 seems to miss a lot of the in between light details that my plasma and the 7900 would show. The darkest blacks still look as black as the screen edge for both projectors. As I have read in many of the projector reviews black level is only one part of a good projector and now I can see why. I prefer the 7900.

Overall sharpness and general picture quality of the 7900 is fantastic compared to the 5030. Once again lots of nice little details end up lost on the 5030. I tried playing with the advanced sharpness settings and the super resolution settings. Even with everything basically maxed out the 7900 still looks much more crisp and natural.

Motion on the 5030 was never very smooth and always seemed to kind of smear. It really reminded me of a poor quality LCD TV. Frame interpolation helped smooth it out some but for my taste it can be a bit too jumpy during lots of action. It did seem to sharpen the image up and add detail.

3D on both projectors was enjoyable. The RF glasses are a very nice touch for the 5030 and the lenses are also a little bit less dark. The 5030 seems smoother with less flicker but it is running at a faster refresh rate than the 7900. If you turn the refresh rate up on the 7900 you lose the option for frame interpolation but end up with almost no flicker and slightly better smoothness like the 5030. I did see quite a bit of cross talk on the 5030 and have never seen any on the 7900. The 5030 gets a huge win for its extra brightness. If i had to pick a projector for 3D only It would probably be the 5030. On the 7900 the image is way sharper, clearer and better defined but with any 3d content extra brightness is always a bonus. The 7900 still does a great job with 3D and I would not steer anyone away from it.

Overall I think that this is probably the best DLP projector for the money especially at its deeply discounted price. It is the only DLP projector I have seen for a reasonable price that has an Iris so I would expect deeper blacks than the other brands especially at this price point. Room treatment probably has more to do with your black levels than the projector itself.

As for the 5030 or probably any 3LCD projector they are not for me. I did not like the soft blurry smeared images. The brightness for 2d with the projector review calibration setting was about the same if not a little dimmer than the 7900. For 3D it was significantly brighter. I am kind of surprised how many people swear by the 50xx projectors.

The 7900 has excellent sharpness, shadow detail, super smooth crisp motion. Plenty of brightness for 2D. 3d brightness acceptable for my 106" screen. It looks slightly better than my plasma for most things. I was pretty surprised how good the image looked compared to the plasma.

Enjoy. Feel free to ask some questions or clarification if I missed something.
post #165 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Quick review - Epson 5030ub vs HC7900DW blacks, shadow details, sharpness, 3D and motion.

This is my first projector and I have had it for about a month now. Previous TV was calibrated 58" Panasonic plasma. I still have it and just pull the projector screen over the front on it. My room is fairly light in color but is very dark as far as ambient light is concerned. I am running a 106" screen and was running a 92" prior to this one. I sit 14.5 ft from the screen. I have black fabric on the ceiling in front of the screen to help with reflection.

Interesting to finally see this owners thread come to life. I am going to share my 2 cents on this projector compared to the highly rated Epson 5030ub. I ended up getting the 5030 about 2 week ago to see what all the hype is about. I was not able to project the images next to each other for comparisons so I ended up having to do a lot of pausing and switching projectors to view the same scenes. I have mostly stuck with projector reviews calibration settings but tweaked contrast and brightness slightly using avs709 test patterns also considering eye comfort.

I have to agree the black level is certainly better for the 5030 than the 7900 but it seems to be hurting the overall shadow detail of the 5030. On darker scenes the detail is almost non existent compared to the 7900. The 5030 seems to miss a lot of the in between light details that my plasma and the 7900 would show. The darkest blacks still look as black as the screen edge for both projectors. As I have read in many of the projector reviews black level is only one part of a good projector and now I can see why. I prefer the 7900.

Overall sharpness and general picture quality of the 7900 is fantastic compared to the 5030. Once again lots of nice little details end up lost on the 5030. I tried playing with the advanced sharpness settings and the super resolution settings. Even with everything basically maxed out the 7900 still looks much more crisp and natural.

Motion on the 5030 was never very smooth and always seemed to kind of smear. It really reminded me of a poor quality LCD TV. Frame interpolation helped smooth it out some but for my taste it can be a bit too jumpy during lots of action. It did seem to sharpen the image up and add detail.

3D on both projectors was enjoyable. The RF glasses are a very nice touch for the 5030 and the lenses are also a little bit less dark. The 5030 seems smoother with less flicker but it is running at a faster refresh rate than the 7900. If you turn the refresh rate up on the 7900 you lose the option for frame interpolation but end up with almost no flicker and slightly better smoothness like the 5030. I did see quite a bit of cross talk on the 5030 and have never seen any on the 7900. The 5030 gets a huge win for its extra brightness. If i had to pick a projector for 3D only It would probably be the 5030. On the 7900 the image is way sharper, clearer and better defined but with any 3d content extra brightness is always a bonus. The 7900 still does a great job with 3D and I would not steer anyone away from it.

Overall I think that this is probably the best DLP projector for the money especially at its deeply discounted price. It is the only DLP projector I have seen for a reasonable price that has an Iris so I would expect deeper blacks than the other brands especially at this price point. Room treatment probably has more to do with your black levels than the projector itself.

As for the 5030 or probably any 3LCD projector they are not for me. I did not like the soft blurry smeared images. The brightness for 2d with the projector review calibration setting was about the same if not a little dimmer than the 7900. For 3D it was significantly brighter. I am kind of surprised how many people swear by the 50xx projectors.

The 7900 has excellent sharpness, shadow detail, super smooth crisp motion. Plenty of brightness for 2D. 3d brightness acceptable for my 106" screen. It looks slightly better than my plasma for most things. I was pretty surprised how good the image looked compared to the plasma.

Enjoy. Feel free to ask some questions or clarification if I missed something.
Thanks for the review. I was debating between these two pjs. Can you tell me what type of glasses you used for the 7900 and did you do any gaming. Thanks.
post #166 of 980
I used the XPAND X104 youniversal with the mitsubishi IR emitter. No gaming sorry. 95% of my content has been bluray. Did some netflix streaming as well but it did not looks very good since the quality sucks!
post #167 of 980
@Brent_b_23 can you explain how much worse it is with some ambient light ? I do have a light controlled room but I was wondering if I use it to watch sports how bad would It be with some ambient light. I will be projecting on a 100'' screen.
post #168 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

I think I'll still go with the manual for now as I wasn't even planning on getting a new projector but my Sharp DT-510's color wheel failed several times, I keep fixing it but I'm not sure how longer it will last. My last fix was to soak the color wheel and its motor in 70% alcohol (it no longer spinned freely due to gunk build up which prevented it from reaching the proper RPM) and it works like new since I did that. I was thinking of selling it with the problem it had mentioned but I might keep it as a space since my projector is the only TV I have.

About the contrast that dissapointed me on the HC7900DW, I decided to watch the same dark scene HD videos I found on YouTube to test it on my Sharp DT-510, and it is in fact significantly worst than I remembered it, so the HC7900DW is in fact better than my previous Sharp, but still nowhere near the absurd claim of 150 000:1. I test black "darkness" by putting my hand in the light path over a black area of the projection (such as black bars) and look at the difference between the black projected and the "true" black created by the shadow of my hand. If a projector could make the same black as literally blocking the light path that would create incredible contrast ratios.

Considering other projectors in my price range wouldn't be any better I'm very happy with it. I'm particularly impressed by the 1080p resolution after being used to 720p and the brightness is more than I was expecting. If I try to see it or in scenes prone to it, I do see more color separation than my Sharp which has a 5x wheel but it's still not a problem, I was trying to stick with 5x or more for my new projector since rainbows aren't a problem at all on my Sharp but figured the HC7900DW would be worth a color wheel speed downgrade for the other benefits. If I put it in 6x more at 24hz color separation becomes virtually impossible to see and video is still very watchable, so if ever I have guests that are bothered by it at 4x, the 6x mode is a good temporary solution for sensitive guests.

...why not keep it 6x all the time ? What's the downside ?
post #169 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

...why not keep it 6x all the time ? What's the downside ?

For some reason, this projector can only run at 6x with a 24hz signal (24 frames per second) which is a relatively slow frame rate. I use an HTPC and when I set it to output at 24hz the mouse doesn't move as smoothly and the mouse movements seem slightly delayed. For video this results in less smooth motion, as I said it's watchable, but I prefer the results in 4x mode and 60hz than 6x mode at 24hz.

brent_b_23:

Thanks a lot for that review and comparison, I was curious to know how the 7900 compared to those LCDs that claim 600 000:1 contrast, it's great to hear the 7900 outperforms LCDs that are over twice the price (though I think based on original prices the Epson was originally cheaper). The better blacks of the Epson are completely meaningless if you lose all the dark scene details, that matters more to me than the actual black level which is what originally dissapointed me. It sounds like perhaps Epson configured that model to close the iris more than the 7900 would for the same scene, wouldn't that explain darker blacks and lower shadow detail? I was surprised by how little the 7900 closes the iris even for pretty dark scenes, I was expecting it to close much more than it does on dark scenes and I tried all 3 iris modes.

I also do the same thing with the projector screen coming down over not a TV but my computer screen, basically with the screen up the room is an office and with the screen down the room becomes a home theater, the same computer serves for the office and theater.

If this is your first projector and you've had it only one month, how are you already on your second screen? When you say the blacks are as black as the screen edge, do you mean the actual black border of the screen, or a white area of the screen which is outside of the projection area?

The reason motion is not blurred on DLP is that DLP can change the color of pixels virtually instantly compared to LCD which tends to fade from one color to the next rather than change color instantly as DLP can which results in blurred motion, this was particularly noticeable on the first LCD laptop screens where it would take almost half a second for pixels to complete changing from one color to another, these screens where virtually unusable for video. LCD certainly got faster response times, but still nowhere near as fast as DLP.

I'm also very surprised to hear the 7900 is brighter than the 5030 when calibrated despite the 5030 being rated at much higher lumens and good to know the 7900 is bright enough on a 106" screen for 3D as that's the size of my next screen I'm about to order.

Despite being dissapointed by the blacks due to their 150 000:1 claim which had set my expectations sky high, I'm very happy and convinced this is the best projector under $1000 I could have got.

Thanks again
Edited by aab1 - 1/5/14 at 3:22am
post #170 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

For some reason, this projector can only run at 6x with a 24hz signal (24 frames per second) which is a relatively slow frame rate. I use an HTPC and when I set it to output at 24hz the mouse doesn't move as smoothly and the mouse movements seem slightly delayed. For video this results in less smooth motion, as I said it's watchable, but I prefer the results in 4x mode and 60hz than 6x mode at 24hz.

I assume the colour wheel on the mitsi is set to run at a max of 7200rpm... so at 24hz (48hz mode) and 4x it would run at 75% or 5400rpm
So running at 6x at 24hz it still spins at 7200rpm.

I assume the reason it cant do 6x at 60hz is because it would mean it would have to spin over 7200rpm (I think this is probably a good idea as it would make the wheel more unreliable)

So correct me if im wrong but 4x wheel speed at 60hz would be the same wheel speed as 6x at 24hz.
post #171 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

I assume the colour wheel on the mitsi is set to run at a max of 7200rpm... so at 24hz (48hz mode) and 4x it would run at 75% or 5400rpm
So running at 6x at 24hz it still spins at 7200rpm.

I assume the reason it cant do 6x at 60hz is because it would mean it would have to spin over 7200rpm (I think this is probably a good idea as it would make the wheel more unreliable)

So correct me if im wrong but 4x wheel speed at 60hz would be the same wheel speed as 6x at 24hz.

i believe forexample optoma hd82 and 83 ect themescene model have speed 6x at every mode course it´s not specified in specs like the 7900 dw.
it´s just mentioned colorwheel speed 6X and with mitsubishi it´s marked 6x speed @ 24Hz
that´s why i stopped thinking about mitsubishi + i would have to order it abroad. here they only sell 7800 (no 7900dw available) at a bargain price of 2300 dollars normal price still is 3600 dollars if somebody happens to have any stock left.
post #172 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

Thanks for the explanation, but if DLP is limited to 2500:1 why is my Sharp DT-510 rated at 4000:1 without a dynamic iris? How does BenQ fake their contrast specs without using an iris? In any case the BenQ is certainly closer to its claimed 10 000:1 than the Mits is to its absurdly claimed 150 000:1.

Isn't DLP still better than LCD in terms of contrast? Why have I seen LCDs rated at things like 600 000:1, is that just as fraudulent as the Mitsubishi's 150 000:1? Would an LCD rated at 600 000:1 look much better than the HC7900DW?

I think LCOS is out of my price range, at what price do 1080p LCOS projectors start at?

I think another issue is that by projecting on a wall the not-so-black bars above and below wide movies are clearly brighter than above and below the projection which is real black, my DT-510 shoots on a screen with a black border around the image which hides the not so black bars, I think once I have a proper screen with black borders the blacks won't bother me as much. It's mostly the projectors blacks against the "real" black outside of the projected image on the wall that bother me, the contrast within the image is pretty good.

About the image going blank every few minutes for a few seconds, it has never done it when sending a 720p signal for hours, I thought it was my super cheap HDMI adjustable angle connector behind the PC degrading the signal too much so I removed it and put it back to 1080p and the image has gone blank at least once so far without the adapter. I definitely think the image going blank is a signal transmission issue and not a problem with the projector, it seems like the 1080p signal is getting some corruption every now and then causing the projector to "reset". What can I do about this?

Thanks

I am sorry for you misfortunes with the Mits HC7900. As others have mentioned, I believe that something is wrong with your unit or it is simply not setup/calibrated correctly.

In regard to your question about native contrast and the Sharp unit: The Sharp unit has the Dark Chip 2+, which gives it a native contrast of 2500:1. However, it also has a fixed iris installed that reduces stray light in the light path, giving it increased on screen contrast. The Mitsubishi has two contrast advantages compared to the Sharp. It has a Dark Chip 3, which should inherently increase the contrast on screen. Also, while having a fixed iris in the light path (like your Sharp DT-510) it also has a variable iris in the light path as well. This, for all intensive purposes, should increase contrast to a noticeable degree. See this source for iris information

Now, you said that you projected the images at two different sizes, not a good idea for accurate comparison. For a fair comparison, you have to calibrate them to the same max output with a full white signal, calibrate brightness and contrast (at least), and then project them onto the same material of the same size. Only then will you observe an accurate comparison. Of course the Sharp will at least have some advantage to the Mits when the Sharp is projected much bigger and therefore it lowers its overall brightness and therefore the black level as well.

I am not positive on how BenQ obtains it contrast spec but I suspect that it is via yet another mechanism, different from the ones mentioned, namely, lamp dimming (which is effectively the same as a dynamic iris in front of the lamp but differs from any other type of iris, dynamic or static, that is further down in the light path).

Your question about "what is better" is simply too broad to answer accurately. LCDs are usually superior to DLPs (in the same price range) when full on/full off contrast is the criterion for picture quality. The LCDs may have a more aggressive iris or greater native contrast inherent in the panels for this criterion. However, intra-image contrast is a completely different story as well as different types of other contrast measurements. As most know, a contrast spec of 600,000:1 is exaggerated and only obtainable on "torch modes" with all dynamic contrast options enabled. Torch modes are extremely contrasty and extremely unwatchable. Calibrated contrast will be much lower but still superb (especially on the Epson Ultra Black models). As a member said above, the Epson, while better in some respects to the Mits, actually falls short in his opinion to the overall look of the Mits. Surely this difference is down to an issue of preference rather than absolute differences (wherein everyone would agree with), nonetheless, I would agree with him.
post #173 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

I assume the colour wheel on the mitsi is set to run at a max of 7200rpm... so at 24hz (48hz mode) and 4x it would run at 75% or 5400rpm
So running at 6x at 24hz it still spins at 7200rpm.

I assume the reason it cant do 6x at 60hz is because it would mean it would have to spin over 7200rpm (I think this is probably a good idea as it would make the wheel more unreliable)

So correct me if im wrong but 4x wheel speed at 60hz would be the same wheel speed as 6x at 24hz.

I don't quite understand what you're saying or how 4x and 6x would be the same speed, but if I put my ear on the projector you can hear the motor speed up and slow down as you set it to 4x or 6x (the manual also mentions the motor sound speeding up in 6x mode), it also can run at 4x at 24hz mode if you want.
post #174 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

I don't quite understand what you're saying or how 4x and 6x would be the same speed, but if I put my ear on the projector you can hear the motor speed up and slow down as you set it to 4x or 6x (the manual also mentions the motor sound speeding up in 6x mode), it also can run at 4x at 24hz mode if you want.

At 4x the color wheel runs slower at 24hz than it does at 60hz.
6x at 24hz it spins at the same speed as 4x at 60hz
post #175 of 980
By the way anybody having problems with the screen blanking out or corrupting over HDMI, the 7900 and 8000 are sensitive to the type of cable being used. On both my hc8000s I have used a 10m cable and had to use an HDMI booster on the end to stop dropouts at 1080p 60hz.

I haven't tried the cables with the built in passive booster but I assume they would work well over long distances too
post #176 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Quick review - Epson 5030ub vs HC7900DW blacks, shadow details, sharpness, 3D and motion.

This is my first projector and I have had it for about a month now. Previous TV was calibrated 58" Panasonic plasma. I still have it and just pull the projector screen over the front on it. My room is fairly light in color but is very dark as far as ambient light is concerned. I am running a 106" screen and was running a 92" prior to this one. I sit 14.5 ft from the screen. I have black fabric on the ceiling in front of the screen to help with reflection.

Interesting to finally see this owners thread come to life. I am going to share my 2 cents on this projector compared to the highly rated Epson 5030ub. I ended up getting the 5030 about 2 week ago to see what all the hype is about. I was not able to project the images next to each other for comparisons so I ended up having to do a lot of pausing and switching projectors to view the same scenes. I have mostly stuck with projector reviews calibration settings but tweaked contrast and brightness slightly using avs709 test patterns also considering eye comfort.

I have to agree the black level is certainly better for the 5030 than the 7900 but it seems to be hurting the overall shadow detail of the 5030. On darker scenes the detail is almost non existent compared to the 7900. The 5030 seems to miss a lot of the in between light details that my plasma and the 7900 would show. The darkest blacks still look as black as the screen edge for both projectors. As I have read in many of the projector reviews black level is only one part of a good projector and now I can see why. I prefer the 7900.

Overall sharpness and general picture quality of the 7900 is fantastic compared to the 5030. Once again lots of nice little details end up lost on the 5030. I tried playing with the advanced sharpness settings and the super resolution settings. Even with everything basically maxed out the 7900 still looks much more crisp and natural.

Motion on the 5030 was never very smooth and always seemed to kind of smear. It really reminded me of a poor quality LCD TV. Frame interpolation helped smooth it out some but for my taste it can be a bit too jumpy during lots of action. It did seem to sharpen the image up and add detail.

3D on both projectors was enjoyable. The RF glasses are a very nice touch for the 5030 and the lenses are also a little bit less dark. The 5030 seems smoother with less flicker but it is running at a faster refresh rate than the 7900. If you turn the refresh rate up on the 7900 you lose the option for frame interpolation but end up with almost no flicker and slightly better smoothness like the 5030. I did see quite a bit of cross talk on the 5030 and have never seen any on the 7900. The 5030 gets a huge win for its extra brightness. If i had to pick a projector for 3D only It would probably be the 5030. On the 7900 the image is way sharper, clearer and better defined but with any 3d content extra brightness is always a bonus. The 7900 still does a great job with 3D and I would not steer anyone away from it.

Overall I think that this is probably the best DLP projector for the money especially at its deeply discounted price. It is the only DLP projector I have seen for a reasonable price that has an Iris so I would expect deeper blacks than the other brands especially at this price point. Room treatment probably has more to do with your black levels than the projector itself.

As for the 5030 or probably any 3LCD projector they are not for me. I did not like the soft blurry smeared images. The brightness for 2d with the projector review calibration setting was about the same if not a little dimmer than the 7900. For 3D it was significantly brighter. I am kind of surprised how many people swear by the 50xx projectors.

The 7900 has excellent sharpness, shadow detail, super smooth crisp motion. Plenty of brightness for 2D. 3d brightness acceptable for my 106" screen. It looks slightly better than my plasma for most things. I was pretty surprised how good the image looked compared to the plasma.

Enjoy. Feel free to ask some questions or clarification if I missed something.

Thanks for the good review. I also have a 58" Panasonic plasma (been faithfully plugging away since '06! Still looks great to me). It looks like we have similar tastes on what we value in an image - as I always found the LCD negatives very distracting to me. The somewhat smeared motion handling, the occasional struggle with detail at low brightness.

As for the black level, if you had to rate the 5030 at say an 8 (which is where I'd rate it if the mid-level JVCs are a 10), what would you rate the 7900's black level?

Also, on 3D brightness, at 106" are you saying it's fine but could be brighter, or it's just barely acceptable? I have a 110" 1.2 gain screen, and one of the reasons I want to go away from my PA70G LED projector is to watch some more 3D. But I don't see it being more than say 10-15% of my viewing at most. The 2D brightness is going to be more than enough for me since I am mostly fine with the ~300-350 lumens my PA70G puts out in mid-lamp mode. I'm just a little wary the 3D is going to be so dim that I'll be completely unsatisfied with it.


And it seems no one has demo'd the 7900 vs. the Benq W1070? They're at roughly similar price points, so I'm a little curious about how they stack up.
post #177 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

At 4x the color wheel runs slower at 24hz than it does at 60hz.
6x at 24hz it spins at the same speed as 4x at 60hz

This is quite confusing to me, I though each "x" was equal to a specific number of color cycles per second, is each "x" related to the refresh rate? I'm sure I saw a dramatic difference in color separation between 4x 60hz and 6x 24hz plus you can hear the motor speed up so that second line doesn't seem accurate unless I'm missing something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

By the way anybody having problems with the screen blanking out or corrupting over HDMI, the 7900 and 8000 are sensitive to the type of cable being used. On both my hc8000s I have used a 10m cable and had to use an HDMI booster on the end to stop dropouts at 1080p 60hz.

I haven't tried the cables with the built in passive booster but I assume they would work well over long distances too

I was having very frequent problems with the screen getting corrupted and blanking out every few minutes and thought it might be a defect with the projector but since removing my super cheap 99 cent HDMI adjustable angle adapter (to allow me to push my PC back closer against the wall) it only blanked once and never again in hours of use and with a 720p signal never blanked at all which pretty much proves it's a signal issue and not a defect with the projector. My HDMI cable is very thick, about twice the diameter of the 7900's power cable so I think it's good enough. I still don't have my 7900 permanently installed yet but should in the next few days, I'm waiting for my screen.
post #178 of 980
I'll throw my mini review in as well. I've got a light controlled room, a 1.2 gain white screen and am coming from a 60" Samsung F5300 Plasma.

- Black levels are good. Bars can seem a touch grey depending on what's happening in the scene and where the iris is at but contrast in the picture area is top notch, shadow detail is fantastic and I'm not left wanting deeper blacks.

- Brightness and colour vibrancy is right where I had hoped for. Picture has plenty of "pop" while not appearing artificial. Very theatre like.

- Sharpness is great, no focus issues and with my sharpness set at 1, text is very crisp and has no blooming or smearing.

- Movies look very natural and I have no issues with motion or the iris being distracting (set at auto 3).

- Gaming is magnificent, so far I have only used my PS4 and haven't got my gaming PC hooked up yet. I've played BF4, where I have not seen any issues with input lag and seem to play at the same level as I did on my plasma, Killzone Shadowfall, game looked incredible and AC4 which was vibrant and very immersive. For AC4 I just turned on FRC at level 1 and it seemed to smooth out the long pans while synchronizing, may be placebo I didn't A/B for very long.

All in all I am very pleased with this unit. I'm a black level junkie and felt that this was my best shot at getting the deep blacks I wanted without breaking the bank and jumping to a 5030 or a JVC LCoS unit. I am not disappointed at all.

Brightness maybe a concern for some depending on circumstance. With my original 1.1 gain grey screen this unit was not bright enough to make the picture pop. Once I changed to the white screen, I was very pleased. With the white screen it cannot tolerate any ambient light. Not a big deal for me but once again depends on circumstance of your viewing room. I've got no experience with 3D on this unit (or any other, 3D doesn't interest me in the least) so I can't speak for that.
post #179 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrillho View Post

I'll throw my mini review in as well. I've got a light controlled room, a 1.2 gain white screen and am coming from a 60" Samsung F5300 Plasma.

- Black levels are good. Bars can seem a touch grey depending on what's happening in the scene and where the iris is at but contrast in the picture area is top notch, shadow detail is fantastic and I'm not left wanting deeper blacks.

- Brightness and colour vibrancy is right where I had hoped for. Picture has plenty of "pop" while not appearing artificial. Very theatre like.

- Sharpness is great, no focus issues and with my sharpness set at 1, text is very crisp and has no blooming or smearing.

- Movies look very natural and I have no issues with motion or the iris being distracting (set at auto 3).

- Gaming is magnificent, so far I have only used my PS4 and haven't got my gaming PC hooked up yet. I've played BF4, where I have not seen any issues with input lag and seem to play at the same level as I did on my plasma, Killzone Shadowfall, game looked incredible and AC4 which was vibrant and very immersive. For AC4 I just turned on FRC at level 1 and it seemed to smooth out the long pans while synchronizing, may be placebo I didn't A/B for very long.

All in all I am very pleased with this unit. I'm a black level junkie and felt that this was my best shot at getting the deep blacks I wanted without breaking the bank and jumping to a 5030 or a JVC LCoS unit. I am not disappointed at all.

Brightness maybe a concern for some depending on circumstance. With my original 1.1 gain grey screen this unit was not bright enough to make the picture pop. Once I changed to the white screen, I was very pleased. With the white screen it cannot tolerate any ambient light. Not a big deal for me but once again depends on circumstance of your viewing room. I've got no experience with 3D on this unit (or any other, 3D doesn't interest me in the least) so I can't speak for that.

I agree with what you say, one thing I forgot to mention is that colors seem much more vibrant than on my 7 year old Sharp, I don't know if my Sharp lost "vibrancy" as it aged and parts get dirty inside or if it looked like this when new but colors are much more vivid on the 7900 than on my 7 year old Sharp.

When you say it cannot tolerate ambient light with a white screen, what size screen are you using? I tested mine making I believe a 128" image on a wall and even with 3 small fluorescent lights on between the projector and screen it was still watchable, my real screen will be 106" so it should be fine with ambient light.

By the way I have no idea what is needed to calibrate a projector as I never calibrated my 2 first projectors, do you need to buy expensive hardware or what? If it can be done cheaply I'd like to know how you do this.

Thanks
post #180 of 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPS13 View Post

Thanks for the good review. I also have a 58" Panasonic plasma (been faithfully plugging away since '06! Still looks great to me). It looks like we have similar tastes on what we value in an image - as I always found the LCD negatives very distracting to me. The somewhat smeared motion handling, the occasional struggle with detail at low brightness.

As for the black level, if you had to rate the 5030 at say an 8 (which is where I'd rate it if the mid-level JVCs are a 10), what would you rate the 7900's black level?

Also, on 3D brightness, at 106" are you saying it's fine but could be brighter, or it's just barely acceptable? I have a 110" 1.2 gain screen, and one of the reasons I want to go away from my PA70G LED projector is to watch some more 3D. But I don't see it being more than say 10-15% of my viewing at most. The 2D brightness is going to be more than enough for me since I am mostly fine with the ~300-350 lumens my PA70G puts out in mid-lamp mode. I'm just a little wary the 3D is going to be so dim that I'll be completely unsatisfied with it.


And it seems no one has demo'd the 7900 vs. the Benq W1070? They're at roughly similar price points, so I'm a little curious about how they stack up.

I would rate the black level of the 7900 at a 7 or 7.5. The difference is there but its not huge. But like I said the black level on the 5030 took away a lot of details so for me I could say I appreciate the fact its not been so dark and hadles the details better. Where I really notice the difference between the 2 in the black surrounding bars but in the actual image its hard to notice the difference. I would rate myself much pickier than most. I have seen the 15000$ 95 series Sony at my local dealer but they have not gotten any of the JVC's yet. The sony handled the blacks a bit nicer showing all details compared to the 5030. I realize its not a fair comparison.

For 3d brightness - I got my light meter yesterday and took some measurements. I am going to down size to 100" screen since my family thinks the 106" is a little to busy. So all my measurements will be referencing a 100" 1.1 gain screen now. On high lamp mode on 3D setting and 3D Gama mode with contrast at 0 I am getting about 1020 lumens (so not full max output) to the screen which would mean for 100" screen you should get 33.79 fl. I measured the XPAND glasses to let about 32% light through so you should get about 10.7 fl with glasses on. It really is quite good if you are watching a good quality 3d movie. I have not measured the 5030 yet but using measured numbers from some reviews for brightness quick cal at 1487 lumens it should be putting about 49.2 fl on my screen and with with 3d glasses that should be about 15.75 fl. Maxed out it should be somewhere around 2100 lumens which would be 69.5 fl and with 3d glasses should be about 22.25 fl. So assuming I got all my number right the 5030 is significantly brighter and it is very noticeable. This is why I mentioned I would likely take this projector for 3D only but still do not care for the picture quality. The 5030 is bright with an OK image but not really for me.
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