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Stereo Integrity 24" subwoofer - not kidding! - Page 2

post #31 of 522
24 is the new 21 cool.gif

I like this trend. The re-launch of the Mach 5's 21", now this 24",... bad-ass.


I hope they have great success, and immediately I contemplate a dual opposed manifold IB. However, as it's been pointed out to me, historically there has been inherent issues with such attempts. I'm guessing the soft parts allowing sag in each orientation, but with advances in materials, etc, I'm hoping these issues are minimal, or perhaps existent. Maybe motor tolerances, etc, with such a big effort/big parts, would allow for axial sag, or even sag perpendicular to excursion motion.

Maybe this isn't enough a jump in size/mass to incur such issues, hell I'd be glad to employ a couple into a long term test scenario. A simple rotation in mounting, would seemingly even out any potential sag, ...maybe it's a complete non-issue.

I'm merely parroting what I've read, as I've got no direct experience in sag, or even second hand. I've only heard of this issue referred to ... from quite dated designs.

As an IB builder/owner, I love the idea of these massive drivers, employed in such an approach.


Best of luck to all involved.
post #32 of 522
Would doing the "sub crawl" with a mic up at ceiling find optimal placement for IB manifold in attic?
post #33 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Would doing the "sub crawl" with a mic up at ceiling find optimal placement for IB manifold in attic?

Yes, that's one approach.

That's likely the primary potential downside to implementing an IB system, ie., not having the luxury of placement relocation after the build and install. With care taken in the planning stages, and as much experimentation and measurements, the IB location can be maximized for performance. Even a simple and temporary small box could be constructed and employed for such experiments. This test box can be modest in both it's -3dB extension, and it's SPL capability.

Also, to maximize post build success, a multi manifold/multi driver system can be used. With careful calculations of a room's dimensions, selective mode cancellation can be utilized with success.

Here's an example of the planning, calculating, measuring, and subsequent build of a multi-driver IB array from over at The Cult. This individual is using the wonderful FTW-21" drivers, in a fantastic concrete reinforced, entirely inert and quite thick brick wall. After determining the driver locations w/measuring, he cut holes in the front brick wall of his living room. Then poured concrete and adapted the drivers to the new concrete with high density fiberboard, IIRC.

It's well documented, with good images throughout. It's worth a look .. a good bit of work is rewarded with a superb platform for the drivers.


Thanks
post #34 of 522
At some point doesn't the moving mass and lack of motor force become a problem?

Why not just just cut a 48 inch circle out of 1/4 plywood and superglue it to the front of a RE-18 cone with pool-liner used the surround? It would be only able to do a single note: 10hz @ 1mm p-p Or take it a step further, attach it to a whole 12ft sheet of drywall, right? tongue.gif

That said, I await measurements of this cone!!! biggrin.gif
post #35 of 522
If only the Adire Parthenon actually came out.
post #36 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

At some point doesn't the moving mass and lack of motor force become a problem?

Why not just just cut a 48 inch circle out of 1/4 plywood and superglue it to the front of a RE-18 cone with pool-liner used the surround? It would be only able to do a single note: 10hz @ 1mm p-p Or take it a step further, attach it to a whole 12ft sheet of drywall, right? tongue.gif

That said, I await measurements of this cone!!! biggrin.gif
Speaking of this reminded me.........I wonder whatever happened to Montekay's subwoofer?
post #37 of 522
Sorry to go off topic here, but I remember this from a long time ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcumyDyDIEA I remembered it after the Parthenon comment.
post #38 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey_face View Post

THIS THIS THIS is what ive been holding out for. . . . the wife only said one sub. . . . this will teach her. . . .

LoL!!
post #39 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16hz lover View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey_face View Post

THIS THIS THIS is what ive been holding out for. . . . the wife only said one sub. . . . this will teach her. . . .

LoL!!

+1

I`m seriously considering getting 4 of these and see what happens.

When`s the launch date?
post #40 of 522
also what kinda box sizes can we expect to need? under 20 cu ft ported would be divine.

10cuft would make me buy two. one for la casa loco and one for the truck.
post #41 of 522
These are IB designed. So 9999cuft biggrin.gif You can do an IB in your car or truck if you want.
post #42 of 522
We just received pricing on all of the hard and soft parts except the motor (we already know pricing on the motor) and we will be making / offering this IB 24" woofer in a month or so. We should have the parts in less than a month to make a few hundred of the woofers and we will then continue to stock the parts for more orders. We will release a more definitive ETA as soon as one is available. cool.gif
post #43 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post

We just received pricing on all of the hard and soft parts except the motor (we already know pricing on the motor) and we will be making / offering this IB 24" woofer in a month or so. We should have the parts in less than a month to make a few hundred of the woofers and we will then continue to stock the parts for more orders. We will release a more definitive ETA as soon as one is available. cool.gif

Dang you. Now I need to find a way to stuff a couple of these in with my SI18's. It never ends. cool.gif

I don't suppose you know the mounting depth yet? biggrin.gif
post #44 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Dang you. Now I need to find a way to stuff a couple of these in with my SI18's. It never ends. cool.gif

I don't suppose you know the mounting depth yet? biggrin.gif

Mounting depth = deep. wink.gif

I'll get mounting depth figures for you this week.

Seriously though, it's a DEEP woofer. You don't want to mount this within 4" of your roof line or it won't fit. wink.gif
post #45 of 522
Thanks.

Necessity is the mother of invention. biggrin.gif
post #46 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post

Five very affordable 18" drivers at $200 each is $1,000. Four very affordable 18" drivers is $800. Still more than our 24" driver. wink.gif

Understand that this response is making a few assumptions from the information provided in this thread. Also don't get me wrong; this things looks pretty bad ass. Given that the cost of the motor was already known and it didn't have to be ordered, it would seem that the motor was already a stock item indicating it may be the same as the SI18 or at least very similar. If this is the case the voice coil of 2.5 inches is pretty small for this size driver. Also if this is the case it would stand to reason that 2 of the 18's would be at least close to double the motor strength of a single one of these. Given that this driver has a SD of not quite 2 times the SI 18 and assuming similar motors 2 of the 18's would seemingly be a far better deal at almost half the price. 4 should outperform this single driver by far for essentially the same money while also having far better thermal capacity. Given the assumption on BL between the 2 the 18 should be much more dynamic and controlled. depending on Xmax capabilities the 24 would theoretically go deeper but how much over the 18? I see the laws of diminishing returns strongly in effect here due to the cost of parts for this size driver because of simple supply and demand, not just because of additional materials per driver. I would love to see some more specs on the motor especially but also suspension; magnet weight and dimensions, top plate sizing, voice coil diameter/ gauge/layering, spider sizeing, surround, Xmax, BL, even MMs and resonance to help determine depth of reach and possible suspension issues due to certain types of installs. With the currently supplied information I would tend to not understand why I would choose this driver over 2 SI 18's unless I just had little d!@k syndrome.
post #47 of 522
That's a lot of assuming at this point. Let's wait and see. SI has never been known to cut corners when it comes to build and SQ.
post #48 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bubbles View Post

Understand that this response is making a few assumptions from the information provided in this thread. Also don't get me wrong; this things looks pretty bad ass. Given that the cost of the motor was already known and it didn't have to be ordered, it would seem that the motor was already a stock item indicating it may be the same as the SI18 or at least very similar. If this is the case the voice coil of 2.5 inches is pretty small for this size driver. Also if this is the case it would stand to reason that 2 of the 18's would be at least close to double the motor strength of a single one of these. Given that this driver has a SD of not quite 2 times the SI 18 and assuming similar motors 2 of the 18's would seemingly be a far better deal at almost half the price. 4 should outperform this single driver by far for essentially the same money while also having far better thermal capacity. Given the assumption on BL between the 2 the 18 should be much more dynamic and controlled. depending on Xmax capabilities the 24 would theoretically go deeper but how much over the 18? I see the laws of diminishing returns strongly in effect here due to the cost of parts for this size driver because of simple supply and demand, not just because of additional materials per driver. I would love to see some more specs on the motor especially but also suspension; magnet weight and dimensions, top plate sizing, voice coil diameter/ gauge/layering, spider sizeing, surround, Xmax, BL, even MMs and resonance to help determine depth of reach and possible suspension issues due to certain types of installs. With the currently supplied information I would tend to not understand why I would choose this driver over 2 SI 18's unless I just had little d!@k syndrome.

Sooooo, you do realize that SI is a partnership between the owners of Sundown and Obsidian audio, right? Meaning they have A LOT of other motors and VC's directly on hand to experiment with... In fact, having driven down to their facility to experience some of the other drivers they have on hand, I'd say they are more than capable of shaking up the HT super sub market. I have no idea what to expect, but as bass addict mentioned, SI hasn't been the type to cut corners...

I'm trying to reserve speculation until we get some full specs to start running some models. Also, really really looking forward to Ricci getting his hands on the sealed version of this monster...
post #49 of 522
Plus, I'm pretty sure tooling and stuff for 24" soft parts isn't exactly inexpensive.
post #50 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sooooo, you do realize that SI is a partnership between the owners of Sundown and Obsidian audio, right? Meaning they have A LOT of other motors and VC's directly on hand to experiment with... In fact, having driven down to their facility to experience some of the other drivers they have on hand, I'd say they are more than capable of shaking up the HT super sub market. I have no idea what to expect, but as bass addict mentioned, SI hasn't been the type to cut corners...

I'm trying to reserve speculation until we get some full specs to start running some models. Also, really really looking forward to Ricci getting his hands on the sealed version of this monster...

I did not know or realize anything about the partnership or ownership. However, I see nothing from either of those two companies with a stronger motor than the SI 18 to indicate that either company has any motor already on the shelf stronger than that. My post was clearly labeled as assumptions and was posted to try to get more info from the makers of the driver. i was only using the info that had been offered up thus far. I am sure it is a great product as i know some of their prior models and other drivers are great. I just am not sure it will be worth the speculated price as compared to their other existing drivers unless the motor is tremendously different from their 15's and 18's. A motor of that relative strength attached to a 24 in cone would not be spectacular as compared to their existing product unless you simply compare them on a 1 to one basis. I feel confident they have a beefier motor given their prior quality designs, but to the average reader of the forum who knows nothing of the ownership of the company, will tend to infer as i did in my previous post. My personal assumption is that a couple of their 18's will probably outperform the 24 in all aspects other than depth of reach, but the 18 already reaches so low their will be very little audible difference there. And this would be at nearly half the cost. This is just my personal thoughts and opinions and not based on anything other than my many years as a Home audio hobbyist and 24+ years in the car audio business. i look forward to the full specifications/ features of this driver as i could very well be horribly incorrect and pleasantly surprised at the same time.
Edited by Mr. Bubbles - 4/24/13 at 12:21pm
post #51 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bubbles View Post

I did not know or realize anything about the partnership or ownership. My post was clearly labeled as assumptions and was posted to try to get more info from the makers of the driver. i was only using the info that had been offered up thus far. I am sure it is a great product as i know some of their prior models and other drivers are great. I just am not sure it will be worth the speculated price as compared to their other existing drivers unless the motor is tremendously different from their 15's and 18's. A motor of that relative strength attached to a 24 in cone would not be spectacular as compared to their existing product unless you simply compare them on a 1 to one basis. I feel confident they have a beefier motor given their prior quality designs, but to the average reader of the forum who knows nothing of the ownership of the company, will tend to infer as i did in my previous post. My personal assumption is that a couple of their 18's will probably outperform the 24 in all aspects other than depth of reach, but the 18 already reaches so low their will be very little audible difference there. And this would be at nearly half the cost. This is just my personal thoughts and opinions and not based on anything other than my many years as a Home audio hobbyist and 24+ years in the car audio business. i look forward to the full specifications/ features of this driver as i could very well be horribly incorrect and pleasantly surprised at the same time.

No harm no foul Bub. Hope my post didn't come off as negative or condescending.

biggrin.gif

While I have no direct experience with IB subs or setups, I agree with you on the motor strength and VC size issues. The increased moving mass from the larger cone of the 24" would have a significant impact the motors currently being used in the 15's and 18's. I'm sure others can speak to the engineering aspect of it....
post #52 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Plus, I'm pretty sure tooling and stuff for 24" soft parts isn't exactly inexpensive.

You can buy 24" baskets, cones and surrounds pre-fabed from China, just add your own coil. No tooling required..... I'm not saying thats what they are doing but they are available wink.gif
post #53 of 522
ahhhh damn theyre IB subs. . . . I have NO WAY of using IB subs. . . . and I kinda wanted one for the truck for $hits and giggles.
post #54 of 522
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm very much in for 4 of the stronger motored non IB version. Gotta sell a few 21s smile.gif
post #55 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bubbles View Post

Understand that this response is making a few assumptions from the information provided in this thread. Also don't get me wrong; this things looks pretty bad ass. Given that the cost of the motor was already known and it didn't have to be ordered, it would seem that the motor was already a stock item indicating it may be the same as the SI18 or at least very similar. If this is the case the voice coil of 2.5 inches is pretty small for this size driver. Also if this is the case it would stand to reason that 2 of the 18's would be at least close to double the motor strength of a single one of these. Given that this driver has a SD of not quite 2 times the SI 18 and assuming similar motors 2 of the 18's would seemingly be a far better deal at almost half the price. 4 should outperform this single driver by far for essentially the same money while also having far better thermal capacity. Given the assumption on BL between the 2 the 18 should be much more dynamic and controlled. depending on Xmax capabilities the 24 would theoretically go deeper but how much over the 18? I see the laws of diminishing returns strongly in effect here due to the cost of parts for this size driver because of simple supply and demand, not just because of additional materials per driver. I would love to see some more specs on the motor especially but also suspension; magnet weight and dimensions, top plate sizing, voice coil diameter/ gauge/layering, spider sizeing, surround, Xmax, BL, even MMs and resonance to help determine depth of reach and possible suspension issues due to certain types of installs. With the currently supplied information I would tend to not understand why I would choose this driver over 2 SI 18's unless I just had little d!@k syndrome.

You're assuming a lot and all of your assumptions are wrong. The first and most important erroneous assumptions are highlighted in bold. Almost nothing is shared between our HT line and this woofer. Well, the speaker terminals are the same. That's it.

The voice coil on this woofer is a 71mm ww eight layer flat wire wound on a 76.7mm ID stainless steel former. The motor is a 220mm OD 75mm stack with a 30mm top plate. Far from the motor that we designed for our HT line. This 24" also uses a 257mm OD spider pack. You're assuming that Xmax is the same as our HT line where this 24" woofer has an Xmax of 35mm.
post #56 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post

You're assuming a lot and all of your assumptions are wrong. The first and most important erroneous assumptions are highlighted in bold. Almost nothing is shared between our HT line and this woofer. Well, the speaker terminals are the same. That's it.

The voice coil on this woofer is a 71mm ww eight layer flat wire wound on a 76.7mm ID stainless steel former. The motor is a 220mm OD 75mm stack with a 30mm top plate. Far from the motor that we designed for our HT line. This 24" also uses a 257mm OD spider pack. You're assuming that Xmax is the same as our HT line where this 24" woofer has an Xmax of 35mm.

LMAO and eek.gif

Can you give us a number on the required space to run these in IB? I might try to do some atiic manifolds.
post #57 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You can buy 24" baskets, cones and surrounds pre-fabed from China, just add your own coil. No tooling required..... I'm not saying thats what they are doing but they are available wink.gif

Good luck! wink.gif If only it were that simple. biggrin.gif
post #58 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post

this 24" woofer has an Xmax of 35mm.

That's it? I'm out.
































biggrin.gif
post #59 of 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey_face View Post

ahhhh damn theyre IB subs. . . . I have NO WAY of using IB subs. . . . and I kinda wanted one for the truck for $hits and giggles.

We are working on a non-IB woofer on this platform. There is no ETA for that version yet but I'm sure someone will link the news here on AVS when that time comes around. cool.gif
post #60 of 522
I believe the assumption would be for the HT line. A few of us interested just wouldn't be able to build an IB.
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