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F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 6

post #151 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

That's not so hard. Some people think it's not all about them, and they want to contribute their own experience and understanding to help others make good decisions. Since my third Samsung plasma, the most expensive TV I ever bought, began displaying really distracting screen artifacts, I decided to replace it with a non-Samsung. But since I've ruled out Samsung for me, this year, you think I shouldn't say anything about that, and probably shouldn't even be reading this thread. Right?

Please re-read what I wrote. Taking pot shots at a display and offering constructive criticism, are two different things. If we made purchasing decisions based only by people offering their history of issues with a prior display, nobody would buy anything since you will find people with issues revolving around every display ever made, including...wait for it...the Kuro. smile.gif
post #152 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

yeah the 8500 is bright but it has fluctuation issues so in my mind it IS affected by ABL. An unstable one at that. I rather have it be a bit dimmer and stable with smooth transitions.

I'm probably going with the ST60 myself which BTW, actually beats the 8500 in contrast level. eek.gif

Well, that depends on whose measurements and how they relate to how the eye sees contrast ratio. The exceedingly bright capabilities of the 8500, together with the excellent MLLs (often forgotten by many here), make for an exceedingly high contrast ratio. One of the reviews that was posted (after the VT60) mentioned that their measured contrast ratio of the 8500 was unprecedented. Yes, they got a slightly better MLL on the VT60, but the high end of the 8500 greatly exceeded that of the 60 making for a measurably (and visually) greater contrast ratio.
post #153 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

We'll see soon enough which panel the enthusiasts go for.

And 'enthusiasts' would be those that buy Panasonic? Just a wild guess here based on your previously demonstrated 'objectivity'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Only the anti-Panasonic members are on the fence.

Oh brother. Thanks for verifying my first sentence above. Unreal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It's as if CES never happened and the ZT60 didn't steal the show.

Let's put this one in the 'revisionist history' column. The fact is (you seem to hate facts) that many were divided on what was the best 2K display. Some said the Samsung and some said the Panasonic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I'd wager that most of the membership here is realistic about the probability that Samsung plasma could move so far up and away from LG that they approach or beat Panasonic in a single year. I do wonder where all of the Panny hate comes from!?

It's hard to believe that you actually believe the stuff you write here. Just a bit scary. So anyone that isn't groveling at the altar of Panasonic is a 'hater'. Are you for real? I have nothing against Panasonic, nothing against Samsung, hell, I've got nothing against LG. Whoever makes the display with the best PQ that meets MY needs (not yours) is the company that gets my money.

So here we've got the Samsung that has better MLLs than last year's VT50 that was HIGHLY vaunted for its excellent blacks and its also got the best brightness by far of any plasma ever produced. Yet somehow you can't possibly imagine a videophile choosing the Samsung.

Enough with your post. Really enough. rolleyes.gif
post #154 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So when did you get to see the F8500? Did you see it next to a VT60? I'm also curious about the 'hype' you mention. What hype would that be? Anything like the hype surrounding the ZT60? Just asking. wink.gif
I don't take impressions of tv on a store like valid...only informative...EU review; F8500 Highly Recommended...VT60 Reference Status...That's ALL I WANT TO READ. With all due respect i don't care your opinion i believe in other people, that know his stuff and review both sets. Sorry to be rude but you are not objective to me...all for you is F8500. Buy one
post #155 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Thanks for the laugh out loud moment with that statement......

It is truly stunning Ph8te to read some of these posts. The total, 100%, lack of objectivity is something to marvel at.
post #156 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

I don't take impressions of tv on a store like valid...only informative...EU review; F8500 Highly Recommended...VT60 Reference Status...That's ALL I WANT TO READ. With all due respect i don't care your opinion i believe in other people, that know his stuff and review both sets. Sorry to be rude but you are not objective to me...all for you is F8500. Buy one

Got it, so you didn't see the display ever. I thought so. smile.gif

I could have had the 8500 last week when Robert's crew came out to install Directv. I told Robert I'd wait until the shootout before deciding. Yup, I'm not objective at all. Give me strength. rolleyes.gif
post #157 of 3096
I don't need see one neither...Brightness pops, no thanks
PS: Wait for your fix...maybe some day, some year...
post #158 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

I don't need see one neither...Brightness pops, no thanks
PS: Wait for your fix...maybe some day, some year...

I've never seen anyone that knows so much and has seen so little.

When you see the display, see the pops and can tell us how often they occur and in what magnitude, then give me a call.

I saw ONE pop in 2 hours of watching on a calibrated display and that ONE pop was eliminated in Cal Day mode. Have a nice day.
post #159 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Got it, so you didn't see the display ever. I thought so. smile.gif

I could have had the 8500 last week when Robert's crew came out to install Directv. I told Robert I'd wait until the shootout before deciding. Yup, I'm not objective at all. Give me strength. rolleyes.gif

to be fair he may not be able to, as the F8500 may not even be sold in his country. If the VT\ZT are available then I can understand why he would feel that way, if he doesnt have a chance to compare then the choice is made for him in some ways.

Im wondering what will happen if you choose the ZT over the F8500 wink.gif or heck even the VT......
post #160 of 3096
I invite you to live in my country...and see what happens...Typical behavior from a "First World Nation"
post #161 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

I invite you to live in my country...and see what happens...Typical behavior from a "First World Nation"

Can you clarify what you mean by 'typical behavior from a First World Nation'? Are we really getting to this level now?
post #162 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

And 'enthusiasts' would be those that buy Panasonic? Just a wild guess here based on your previously demonstrated 'objectivity'.
Oh brother. Thanks for verifying my first sentence above. Unreal.
Let's put this one in the 'revisionist history' column. The fact is (you seem to hate facts) that many were divided on what was the best 2K display. Some said the Samsung and some said the Panasonic.
It's hard to believe that you actually believe the stuff you write here. Just a bit scary. So anyone that isn't groveling at the altar of Panasonic is a 'hater'. Are you for real? I have nothing against Panasonic, nothing against Samsung, hell, I've got nothing against LG. Whoever makes the display with the best PQ that meets MY needs (not yours) is the company that gets my money.

So here we've got the Samsung that has better MLLs than last year's VT50 that was HIGHLY vaunted for its excellent blacks and its also got the best brightness by far of any plasma ever produced. Yet somehow you can't possibly imagine a videophile choosing the Samsung.

Enough with your post. Really enough. rolleyes.gif

BEST post ever!!!
post #163 of 3096
full moon guys, and its rearing its ugly head!
post #164 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

to be fair he may not be able to, as the F8500 may not even be sold in his country. If the VT\ZT are available then I can understand why he would feel that way, if he doesnt have a chance to compare then the choice is made for him in some ways.

Im wondering what will happen if you choose the ZT over the F8500 wink.gif or heck even the VT......

Yeah, can you imagine? I'm sure some of these guys will come up with some wild ass explanation. I honestly don't know which one I'll choose. Yes, I'm leaning 8500, but that might change and that's the reason I told Robert not to throw an 8500 on the truck. If I wasn't objective, I'd be watching the 8500 right now. But I don't expect some of the posters here to grasp that. Instead, they put you in the "Panasonic haters" club. What can I say?

But yes, not having access to a product in your country can limit your choices. However, it would be just as easy for him to say "Unfortunately I don't have access to this product in my country so I need to restrict my choice to the Panasonic". That would be far preferable than some of the comments I've read that are, frankly, sour grapes and nothing more.
post #165 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

full moon guys, and its rearing its ugly head!

It's got to be, it's just got to be! biggrin.gif
post #166 of 3096
if i can see the displays I hope samsung bring the display to buy one then returned on less of 7 days (yes that's the time on my country to return a set) and then buy the ZT60 or VT60 and then choose...you know that i can't, my country is not a great market for consumer displays...we are limited to choose tv's that the stores wants to sell...but no you have to take your opinion over mine...only because the F8500 that YOU think is the better and EU reviews for now seems to give VT60 a reference...but my opinion doesn't count...cause i don't see in person the sets...

I give you this: Stephen Withers (AV Forums reviewer) words of F8500:
"Yes, I was expecting great things from the F8500 and because of that I was a little bit disappointed. Here's hoping it was just teething problems with an early sample or older firmware".

But for you it means nothing...

I wonder if you will buy a tv that cost $5000 in my country. (Yes that's the MSRP of a 65VT60 in my country but obviously earn that money is x2.5 times more difficult).
Edited by agkss - 4/24/13 at 8:46pm
post #167 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yeah, can you imagine? I'm sure some of these guys will come up with some wild ass explanation. I honestly don't know which one I'll choose. Yes, I'm leaning 8500, but that might change and that's the reason I told Robert not to throw an 8500 on the truck. If I wasn't objective, I'd be watching the 8500 right now. But I don't expect some of the posters here to grasp that. Instead, they put you in the "Panasonic haters" club. What can I say?

But yes, not having access to a product in your country can limit your choices. However, it would be just as easy for him to say "Unfortunately I don't have access to this product in my country so I need to restrict my choice to the Panasonic". That would be far preferable than some of the comments I've read that are, frankly, sour grapes and nothing more.


hes said it, which is how I know, but I dont think hes said it here, when it gets into those politics I step away(on the forums) as they can be deep rooted (starting things that are beyond the scope of the forums) and I have seen some things 1st hand that some would just shake your head at. I count myself blessed becasue of what I ahve seen and experiences 1st hand to live where I do and have the choices that I do available to me....

I think i may WANT you to get a ZT or VT just out of spite biggrin.gif is that mean? lol ......
post #168 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

if i can see the displays I hope samsung bring the display to buy one then returned on less of 7 days (yes that's the time on my country to return a set) and then buy the ZT60 or VT60 and then choose...you know that i can't, my country is not a great market for consumer displays...we are limited to choose tv's that the stores wants to sell...but no you have to take your opinion over mine...only because the F8500 that YOU think is the better and EU reviews for now seems to give VT60 a reference...but my opinion doesn't count...cause i don't see in person the sets...

I give you this: Stephen Withers (AV Forums reviewer) words of F8500:
"Yes, I was expecting great things from the F8500 and because of that I was a little bit disappointed. Here's hoping it was just teething problems with an early sample or older firmware".

But for you it means nothing...

And I could post a review that said the display was the best they'd ever seen. So what?

What I object to is your inability to see shades of gray. No display is perfect...yes, not even the ZT60 and you'll see that before too long. Let's repeat that again, no display is perfect. Further, picking a display, any display is not black & white. There are many subtleties in choosing, but I do NOT knock your choice. However, you DO knock opinions that differ from yours. Re-read your sarcastic comments about the Samsung, such as "Wait for your fix...maybe some day, some year...". Things like that are totally uncalled for and, frankly, childish.

I've had it with this thread for one day. Perhaps some sanity will be restored tomorrow.
post #169 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post


I think i may WANT you to get a ZT or VT just out of spite biggrin.gif is that mean? lol ......

Very mean. I'm shocked at you! What if I get the 8500 but tell them I got the ZT60? biggrin.gif
post #170 of 3096
It's the true...i returned a D550...Brightness pops fix...temporary fix that i found here (logic board method)...but pixel misfires...if you don't know how is brightness pops...well live with them...i'm really still waiting for the "fix"...
post #171 of 3096
Quote:
I invite you to live in my country...and see what happens...Typical behavior from a "First World Nation"


Wow, just wow.........

Unbelievable and UNFAIR (to say the least) to say that to a much respected forum member, that probably knows more than most, and yet when he takes the time to help other forum members, in the most polite and friendly manner, he doesn´t make you feel like a complete idiot. I honestly have never ever witnessed or felt that kind of behaviour you are referring in any of his posts.
post #172 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Very mean. I'm shocked at you! What if I get the 8500 but tell them I got the ZT60? biggrin.gif

Well then that would be VERY mean indeed wink.gif I knwo yoll be happy once you make a decision, but I think it WOULD be interesting if you chose one of the Panny sets in the end wink.gif
post #173 of 3096
Ken as an aside, is this display supplementing your Sharp Elite or to replacing it? In my case I am looking for a display to supplement my Sharp Elite and I am torn also 60" 8500 or VT/ZT60.....hell.... maybe even an 65hx950 now that they have dropped the price.
post #174 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Ken as an aside, is this display supplementing your Sharp Elite or to replacing it? In my case I am looking for a display to supplement my Sharp Elite and I am torn also 60" 8500 or VT/ZT60.....hell.... maybe even an 65hx950 now that they have dropped the price.

After the shootout you may even add the x900A tongue.gif (Im guessing less so becasue its edge lit however) the choices are abundant this year that is for sure and that make it a win win for everyone, IF they an decide on what set to buy biggrin.gif
post #175 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

After the shootout you may even add the x900A tongue.gif (Im guessing less so becasue its edge lit however) the choices are abundant this year that is for sure and that make it a win win for everyone, IF they an decide on what set to buy biggrin.gif

I will be objective, but I kind of doubt it with the X900a. Those speakers make it too wide, it's edge lit and being a new XBR with 4K, Sony is going to lock the price....so no deals for a while on these sets.
post #176 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The interesting thing about CNET reviews is how often they are diametrically opposed to the owner's reviews on the same page of the same product. I have owned a number of products reviewed by CNET that made me wonder if it was the same product I owned and they reviewed.

It amazes me how some people really seem to trust some reviews over their own eyes...or buy sight unseen based on a good review. This is by no means a knock of CNET, but as you say, you must use your own eyes in the end. Are you buying the display for yourself or for the guy that reviewed your display? wink.gif

Absolutely right Ken. That is my point.
But don't be surprised many people buy things to show off and get compliments from others, even if deep inside they are not satisfied with the things they bought. Its like "I have a better TV than yours" "My TV is reviewed and rated better than yours" "My TV's MLL is better than yours"
They get the satisfaction from these things MORE than from the watching experience of the TV itself smile.gif
post #177 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

I don't take impressions of tv on a store like valid...only informative...EU review; F8500 Highly Recommended...VT60 Reference Status...That's ALL I WANT TO READ. With all due respect i don't care your opinion i believe in other people, that know his stuff and review both sets. Sorry to be rude but you are not objective to me...all for you is F8500. Buy one

Ken didn't I say that some people won't trust their own eyes but trust what others say smile.gif
post #178 of 3096
Just a brief opinion (I've skipped a few pages of this thread). But what I like about the F8500 is that it's not just Samsung trying to make a Panasonic type plasma and coming up short. It's a legit different option. 2 companies both offering flagship models where comparisons go beyond "This black and contrast ratio is a bit better than this one, so this one wins". The F8500 is redesigned from the ground up (as is a good part of the ZT60) and it offers almost LCD like brightness with pretty darn good blacks to boot. And it has a nice POP if you see it in person. And if you just don't want that, then you still have Panny making the best line of plasmas they have yet made too. But the F8500 isn't just a poor man's ZT60. It's got totally different strengths. And I love having choice.
post #179 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

I have seen both and played with the settings on both.
While the new Panasonic is a beautiful TV,
I think the F8500 is simply the television of the year.( oled and 4k, aside).
The f8500s combination of Super Black with almost LED brightness, just blew me away.

But I red in a review that the F8500 has issue's like :
-Color accuracy and skin tone.
-In some scenes white's turn to greenish.
It has deep black's and brightness but it couldn't beat last year's Panasonic ST50.
post #180 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Ken didn't I say that some people won't trust their own eyes but trust what others say smile.gif

It may have been a different thread, but I think someone here already stated that none of us would buy a plasma if we just walked into a bright showroom and purchased whatever looked best in that environment. And I agree with that. In a typical B&M store like Best Buy, you've got a bunch of LCDs with max luminance at about 100 fL, and you have video loops of bright content that is often pushing plasmas to MUCH lower luminance levels. It makes plasmas look like junk. Years ago, I purchased a 32" IPS LCD HDTV (my first LCD display) that looked great to me in the store. I HATED that TV when I got it home. It had backlight bleed, and its MLL was horrifically bad (I eventually bought my first colorimeter and measured a contrast ratio of 600:1). But it looked just fine in the store, using "my own eyes" to judge the image quality. So yeah, I now read reviews from pro calibrators and reviewers -- as many as I can possibly find. If it was feasible for me to purchase five different TVs, spend a week or so calibrating and comparing all of them in my home, then determining which one I am happiest with and returning all of the others, then that is exactly what I would do. But that's not very practical. So I don't understand why anyone would find fault with those of us who read reviews and/or owner comments. I think it would be pretty stupid not to.
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