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F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 51

post #1501 of 3096
the blacks....the only feature Panasonic wins!!!! Samsung destroy them in all the others features!!!!period!!
post #1502 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

the blacks....the only feature Panasonic wins!!!! Samsung destroy them in all the others features!!!!period!!
That's one version of the "truth."
post #1503 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

the blacks....the only feature Panasonic wins!!!! Samsung destroy them in all the others features!!!!period!!

I assume you were at the shootout to make a bold statement like that. As for "destroying" in all other features.??? That's you're personal view until something goes wrong with your tv. Both companies have pros and cons but when someone has a bad experience with one they will bury it anychance they can. F8500 and ZT60 are both awesome panels.
post #1504 of 3096
so you have both them on your house?
post #1505 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

the blacks....the only feature Panasonic wins!!!! Samsung destroy them in all the others features!!!!period!!

Just another quality post on AVS. That is really is going to help someone in the decision on which one to purchase. Vinnie, you need to drive another 750 miles and take that ZT back for an 8500. Sorry I forgot the exclamation marks.
post #1506 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Just another quality post on AVS. That is really is going to help someone in the decision on which one to purchase. Vinnie, you need to drive another 750 miles and take that ZT back for an 8500. Sorry I forgot the exclamation marks.
nobody have to sell o take back anything,if he made a good or bad decision on his set he has to learn to live with it!!!
post #1507 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Just another quality post on AVS. That is really is going to help someone in the decision on which one to purchase. Vinnie, you need to drive another 750 miles and take that ZT back for an 8500. Sorry I forgot the exclamation marks.
I am quaking at the thought, man. Actually, I can return it just 20 miles from here at my local Best Buy (who wouldn't wheel and deal). I'm going to be losing some more sleep over this revelation, I can tell you that.tongue.gif
post #1508 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

nobody have to sell o take back anything,if he made a good or bad decision on his set he has to learn to live with it!!!

as an owner of the 8500, even i can see that you are being naive mr. prbr.
post #1509 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

as an owner of the 8500, even i can see that you are being naive mr. prbr.
I dont believe naive is the proper word.
post #1510 of 3096
You know one thing I noticed between the two sets. The ZT sometimes had this green tint in gradient areas such as a person's face where the lighter cheek area transitioned to the darker area of the side of the face.

I don't notice it on the F8500. Not sure why...
post #1511 of 3096
Maybe because is a better set
post #1512 of 3096
Maybe is not.
post #1513 of 3096
That
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

You know one thing I noticed between the two sets. The ZT sometimes had this green tint in gradient areas such as a person's face where the lighter cheek area transitioned to the darker area of the side of the face.

I don't notice it on the F8500. Not sure why...
Most certainly a grayscale issue a calibration will correct that panels vary
post #1514 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That
Most certainly a grayscale issue a calibration will correct that panels vary
Ah good to know!
post #1515 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That
Most certainly a grayscale issue a calibration will correct that panels vary

Don't be so sure, in the VT30 series the colour saturation scales were wrong and could not be corrected by a normal calibration, faces in dimly lit scenes were as red as tomatoes.
post #1516 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 939 View Post

Don't be so sure, in the VT30 series the colour saturation scales were wrong and could not be corrected by a normal calibration, faces in dimly lit scenes were as red as tomatoes.

If that is the case then I sure it will come out in professional calibration reports, nothing like that has been mentioned thus far, from everything I have read and heard the VT30 was problematic to calibrate but it could be accomplished just took some extra time.

When you refer to a "normal" calibration are you referring to a professional calibration ? Usually green or some other color in near black is a simple greyscale issue
post #1517 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Why is it you can have great speakers in a car but not in a TV?
I have great speakers for my TV, but they won't fit inside the TV, require more power than the TV can provide, and if they came with, would increase the price of the TV by at least 4 times.
post #1518 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

If that is the case then I sure it will come out in professional calibration reports, nothing like that has been mentioned thus far, from everything I have read and heard the VT30 was problematic to calibrate but it could be accomplished just took some extra time.

When you refer to a "normal" calibration are you referring to a professional calibration ? Usually green or some other color in near black is a simple greyscale issue[/quote

Normal calibration is a calibration that is not requiring service menu intervention (thus voiding your warranty).
As for the "nothing like that has been mentioned thus far" have a look at my post here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/19065205-post482.html
post #1519 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 939 View Post

Normal calibration is a calibration that is not requiring service menu intervention (thus voiding your warranty).
As for the "nothing like that has been mentioned thus far" have a look at my post here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/19065205-post482.html

That doesn't void your warranty fyi and a calibration does not usually involve the service menu, not required at all on the ZT60. , Pointing to your own post doesn't exactly verify the issue, if I see a calibrated ZT60 or VT60 with that issue I will take heed.
Edited by chunon - 6/18/13 at 3:30pm
post #1520 of 3096
Here's another pointer to what may be happening to the xT60 series:
[URL=http://www.**************.com/highdef-news/15401-9th-annual-shootout-2013-a-21.html]http://www.**************.com/highdef-news/15401-9th-annual-shootout-2013-a-21.html[/URL]


Post 402.

Link is being messed up don't know why but it's on hi-def-junkies and below is the post:

Interesting why the VT60 couldn't give you as nice color tracking as my old G30E does to me. Did Panasonic got worse over the years or...?
I honestly doubt this possibility (please don't get me wrong) but in case it's still a secret then I would reveal this to you: I used the Color parameter (the one from the main basic picture mode settings between Brightness and Sharpness) to control how fast the colors get saturated from the neutral white to the clean primary colors (secondaries will nicely follow if you have "some" luck).

In my case, I had to lower the Color value from the default 30 to 27. (Of course, the actual values and their defaults usually differ between US and EU [and may be UK] models, as well as between the TV chipsets/softwares/panels/etc and years/dates, etc, but I think you got the basic idea: use the Color control too!).

You should try different Color values before or during you try to set up the CMS parameters in the advanced menu. (If colors get saturated too fast then you should probably lower it. But it's not a rule. And of course, you probably need to change the CMS settings after you change the Color. They all work together... just like you need to optimize you Contrast, Brightness and other gray-scale parameters first...)

This result I have would not be possible without finding the correct Color value! Any other (including the default) Color value wouldn't get me even close to this! Red, Green, Blue... they would all come out too fast or too slow from white and the secondaries would also be worse (in every aspects: saturation, huye, gamma, luminance, at every saturation levels).


Click image for larger version. Name: Panaosnic_42G30E_color.tracking.jpg Views: 21 Size: 17.6 KB ID: 7104


I say this to you here because during the show, you sometimes go into the menus and it seemed to me (if I am not mistaken) that you worked with the default Color value on the Panasonics. (And without asking, I can't be sure if that was intentional and if so then why exactly...?) And I also saw that you got relatively bad (but overall "too slow" -> Too low Color value ???) saturation tracking charts.
So, I suggest you to try this sometime (if haven't already): use the Color parameter to get better saturation tracking behavior (if possible, of course).

Sorry if you already knew and actually did this. I haven't calibrated a VT60 yet. (However, I did calibrate an ST60 and it was indeed "messy". But that's a cheaper model with an over-utilized old chipset...)

(Ps.: I posted this on avs first, but I realized that forum isn't that populated anymore and I should have posted this here instead. So, here it is. )

Edited by 939 - 6/19/13 at 3:02am
post #1521 of 3096
^ Why not post this in a VT/ZT thread as opposed to this thread?
post #1522 of 3096
Because each series shares driving circuitry and characteristics amidst model variations?
post #1523 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 939 View Post

Because each series shares driving circuitry and characteristics amidst model variations?

Your intent is pretty clear to me, at any rate what do some observations of a European VT30 have to do with North American ZT60 ? I read your avforum post you obviously have an ax to grind with Panasonic
post #1524 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Your intent is pretty clear to me, at any rate what do some observations of a European VT30 have to do with North American ZT60 ? I read your avforum post you obviously have an ax to grind with Panasonic

Absolutely not. You talked about grayscale issues, I said colour saturation issues. You said can be corrected, I said maybe not. You said no other such reports exist, I pointed you to some.
That's all.
Now you may want to dismiss all this by just saying I am a hater, your choice, not mine.
post #1525 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by 939 View Post

Absolutely not. You talked about grayscale issues, I said colour saturation issues. You said can be corrected, I said maybe not. You said no other such reports exist, I pointed you to some.
That's all.
Now you may want to dismiss all this by just saying I am a hater, your choice, not mine.

We will just agree to disagree then, until I see confirmation from Chad, DNice, Buzz or some other reputable source I will consider it speculation. And there is definitely not enough substance here to cause someone not to buy a ZT60..
post #1526 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

People get hung up, IMO, too much on absolute brightness. Although I agree a panel that can achieve very high luminance levels and, at the same time, achieve great black levels is quite an achievement, there's still the missing ingredient.

Regardless of how bright (or bat cave dim) the display is set, if the ABL kicks in too quickly on scenes with a higher APL, it can rob the scene of critical highlights. We've installed motorized blackout shades in our den, creating a much darker viewing environment than we had previously. But that doesn't change the ABL equation. I want rich blacks, but will give up just a bit of the absolute best black levels available for the ability to enjoy a more accurate representation of both outdoor scenes, as well as scenes that have bright highlights occupying a fair amount of screen real estate.

If all I watched was dark, letter-boxed movies, I might have chosen a different panel. But I actually watch lots of full, 16:9 material, including nature shows, sports, documentaries, dramas as well as dark movies. So for me, a panel must be an all-around performer and not inhibit the presentation of a good amount of material that I watch.

After coming from a Sharp Elite, that was able to produce amazing black levels at the same time it didn't even have 'ABL' in its vocabulary, it would have been tough to go backward. With the end of full-array local dimming LEDs, I was pushed back to plasmas. To my eyes the 8500 clearly did more things better, including a sharper, more detailed picture, a much better controlled ABL, unprecedented for plasmas, great black levels even though not class-leading and the ability to create the brightest picture ever for a plasma if you so choose. Even without that last ingredient, the 8500 came the closest to my Sharp Elite in overall picture characteristics. For a plasma, that's more than impressive IMO. smile.gif
Ken,

Why did you give up the Sharp Elite?
post #1527 of 3096
Nrc2112, I still have and enjoy my Sharp Elite. In our new home we moved the Elite to a wall in our bedroom which brought up the need for a display in our den.

I'm totally sold on both great blacks & a well-controlled ABL behavior after coming from the Sharp Elite (which obviously has no need for an ABL). After countless shopping trips to, Magnolias, Value Electronics, the VE shootout and the Panasonic show, it left me with no doubt that the 8500 came closest to the qualities I admire in the Sharp Elite...in addition to some qualities that beat out the Sharp Elite. smile.gif

So this has left me in the rather unusual position of having both a great full-array LED along with a great plasma that breaks new ground.
post #1528 of 3096
Ken,

An enviable position to be in. Lol. I am thinking of purchasing a 60 inch sharp elite store demo from my Magnolia rep. It is 3200 plus tax. Or I can get a new Sammy 64 incher.
post #1529 of 3096
That's the position I am at; I have an Elite and am looking for another TV. Still debating and reading all the posts here to decide. Have to go to BB this week!
post #1530 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

Ken,

An enviable position to be in. Lol. I am thinking of purchasing a 60 inch sharp elite store demo from my Magnolia rep. It is 3200 plus tax. Or I can get a new Sammy 64 incher.

I'm not a fan of buying store demos, but that's me. Just as I had a choice with a demo 70" Elite or a new 64" 8500, I went with a new 64" Samsung. I haven't looked back since.
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