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F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 71

post #2101 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefTheater View Post

Is there any difference on picture quality from the ZT60 to the VT60? Because the ZT60 it's only available on "60" inch in Europe and the VT60 there is a "65" inch.

The ZT60 to me is MUCH better than a VT60 in a bright room. I would probably pick the Samsung F8000 (yes, the LCD) before the VT60 if I knew I was to do a lot of daytime viewing, but I would get the ZT60 or the F8500 before any of them (I picked the F8500 due to better brightness and the ZT60 not being available in 65" in Europe).
post #2102 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

on a side note, if you ever see the two tvs side by side and you just keep backing up till you are 20 ft away, that's when it becomes clear how well the filter works - the tv's beside it will start to 'wash out' while the ZT image will remain very good.

20 ft? I would say that it is obvious from any distance (as long as you can still see the TV that is). The filter on the ZT60 is exceptional (and that is coming from someone who just bought the F8500).
post #2103 of 3096
I was accounting for clarity of the general user. The further away from the screens the better you will see the difference. EG Just because its obvious to me the f8500 black levels and picture detail are not as well executed as on the vt/zt sitting next to it, doesn't mean everyone else can see it 'obviously' without getting a viewing in a pitch dark room.
post #2104 of 3096
I would appreciate some advice. My beloved Kuro 151 was damaged beyond repair from lightening (along with my receiver, sub-woofer, cable box, modem, and router all which were protected with surge protectors which also got fried)). I have seen both displays at BB and I actually thought the Sammy looked sharper and brighter than the Panny, but the ZT 60 had better black levels.

For those individuals that have had the Kuro, , which monitor would you go with? I should point out that I have a log home with a dedicated home theater room. There is some ambient light during the day, but not much. My Kuro contrast was set at 36, but it was a buzzer, so I had to use power save mode. I definitely do not want any thing dimmer which is my major concern about the Panny.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
post #2105 of 3096
Panny - my VT and 5020 were both calibrated by DNice and my ISF Day on the Panny is brighter than the mode I used on the 5020. Once calibrated you shouldn't see a difference in light output between the ZT or VT based on your low contrast setting on your Elite. Pick the one that best suits your viewing environment - there are many things I like better about my VT than the Pioneer. Check out the 8500 as well - another solid option too.
Edited by smurraybhm - 9/24/13 at 6:07am
post #2106 of 3096
So you would rate the F8000 around 7 in terms of reflection?
post #2107 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by joms View Post

So you would rate the F8000 around 7 in terms of reflection?

While it has a gloss screen its ability to output more light (as the edge-lit LEDs all do) will offset a lot of the reflectivity. I'm sure you know already when it comes to picture quality there is no comparison between plasma and all but a few LED/LCDs. You really need to visit a store and do your own homework, since we will differ in what we deem acceptable besides no two rooms are usually the same ex bat caves. Just make sure you buy you display from someone with a return policy so you can swap if necessary, hard to judge with certainty until you get it in the house. I have windows on the left side of the room were my VT is located and it works/looks great during the day.
Edited by smurraybhm - 9/26/13 at 10:09am
post #2108 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

You really need to visit a store and do your own homework, since we will differ in what we deem acceptable besides no two rooms are usually the same ex bat caves. Just make sure you buy you display from someone with a return policy so you can swap if necessary, hard to judge with certainty until you get it in the house.
+1
post #2109 of 3096
I have the zt60. I did have a look in store between the 2 of them, and the blacks levels on the zt60 were just exceptional, the best i've seen ever.

I did see a couple of reviews which swayed me a little, but it's definately worth going to see them in action to make your mind up. I will say that the sound isn't as good but I wasn't too bothered about that given that I use a sound system for movies.
post #2110 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4bbage View Post

I have the zt60. I did have a look in store between the 2 of them, and the blacks levels on the zt60 were just exceptional, the best i've seen ever.

I did see a couple of reviews which swayed me a little, but it's definately worth going to see them in action to make your mind up. I will say that the sound isn't as good but I wasn't too bothered about that given that I use a sound system for movies.

Even though I ended up with the F8500 I have to agree with you, the black level of the ZT60, even in a bright room, is exceptional. The F8500 is great, but the ZT60 is better, no question about it. Of course, there are other differences as well which was why I went with the F8500, the main one probably being light output but also Panasonics decision to only offer 60" ZT60 in Europe for a much higher price than the 64" F8500. The ZT60 is the only plasma I've seen that can match the black levels of the Sony HX9 series when it comes to black bars and similar (Sharp Elite not available in Europe).
post #2111 of 3096
^Didn't ever get to witness the Kuro in action then? I see you're a long-term member here.
post #2112 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Didn't ever get to witness the Kuro in action then? I see you're a long-term member here.

Yes, but havn't seen one in many years now so I wont make any comparisions if that is what you are thinking of.
post #2113 of 3096
I only mentioned it to raise the point that some of the Kuros (i.e. the monitors) can go deeper than the ZT60, and all of them can be calibrated to go blacker. The ZT has other benefits, however (size being the biggie).
post #2114 of 3096
guys

im on the fence between the ZT60 and F8500 as well

so i was wondering if any F8500 owners can comment on my question.....

on very dark scenes or low apl scenes, how do the black bars appear with the F8500?

do they blend in with the bezel? or do they become visible?
post #2115 of 3096

Just received a ZT60 yesterday.

 

Black levels are through the roof.  Never seen anything like it before.

 

Initially I had 3D problems, but suddenly everything kicked in and the 3D looks perfect.

 

I am having problems with broadcast TV looking acceptable.  Fios looks like crap.  Dish looks much better.

 

After initially deciding to return this display, I am now leaning towards keeping it if I can get this tweaked to perfection.


Edited by Ronald Epstein - 11/12/13 at 6:26am
post #2116 of 3096
I've joined the "On the fence club" even though I ordered and will have the ZT60 delivered tomorrow.

I did see the ZT and 8500 in BB. yes the 8500 was brighter. It also looked though to me that the colors and PQ wasn't as natural as on the ZT.

I currently have the original first generation Pioneer Elite 1080p (FHD-1). It is about 6 years old or so. Should the brightness on the ZT be as good or better than that set?

Thanks,
Ken
post #2117 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

Just received a ZT60 yesterday.

Black levels are through the roof.  Never seen anything like it before.

Initially I had 3D problems, but suddenly everything kicked in and the 3D looks perfect.

I am having problems with broadcast TV looking acceptable.  Fios looks like crap.  Dish looks much better.

After initially deciding to return this display, I am now leaning towards keeping it if I can get this tweaked to perfection.

FWIW, I also have Dish...got the set, and tried many of the posted settings from the respected calibrators, most of which worked well for my PS3's Blu Ray. However I was still experiencing a lot of black crush with my Dish Network feed. I settled on the CNET settings, but found that if I used the "Non-standard" color option (instead of 16-235), in the HDMI settings, the PQ looked much better. I had tone down the blue and red settings, but now I have, what I feel, is a well balanced picture.

I'll be adjusting further to be able to use the 2.4 Gamma setting instead of the current 2.2, at least until I can get the set calibrated professionally.
post #2118 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 View Post

I've joined the "On the fence club" even though I ordered and will have the ZT60 delivered tomorrow.

I did see the ZT and 8500 in BB. yes the 8500 was brighter. It also looked though to me that the colors and PQ wasn't as natural as on the ZT.

I currently have the original first generation Pioneer Elite 1080p (FHD-1). It is about 6 years old or so. Should the brightness on the ZT be as good or better than that set?

Thanks,
Ken

Out of the box I would say advantage to your Pioneer. If they are both calibrated it will be the same. It's not all about light output, you have to find that middle ground that offers the best detail for grayscale and doesn't crush the blacks. I could go into greater detail why unless you like your display in vivid or watch tv in the sun it just isn't that important of a figure. Check out the pro calibration reports for the ZT/VTs and you will see what I mean. The only place it may make a difference is 3D, but again nothing a pro calibration can't make much better.
post #2119 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Out of the box I would say advantage to your Pioneer. If they are both calibrated it will be the same. It's not all about light output, you have to find that middle ground that offers the best detail for grayscale and doesn't crush the blacks. I could go into greater detail why unless you like your display in vivid or watch tv in the sun it just isn't that important of a figure. Check out the pro calibration reports for the ZT/VTs and you will see what I mean. The only place it may make a difference is 3D, but again nothing a pro calibration can't make much better.

I had my Pioneer calibrated. It is old and was wondering if the display was dimmer due to age.

So why do you think that the Pioneer will be better compared to the ZT60 out of the box?

I do not watch in vivid mode. I am used to a calibrated panel too.

And do you think the Pioneer will be better than a Sam 8500 out of the box as well?

Thanks,
Ken
post #2120 of 3096

Want to give an update to my prior post just to be fair...

 

My ZT60 is performing perfectly.

 

Broadcast issues were due to the fact that my Tivo switched to 480p output when the displays were swapped.

 

Now that I have put it back into 1080 mode, the picture looks fantastic.

 

Out of the box, in THX Cinema mode, picture looks perfect.  

 

Just finished watching a 3D title that I am about to review for my website and it looked outstanding.

 

So any previous reports of me returning my ZT60 should be ignored.  I am giving it a few more days to make certain, but I am fairly confident that this display is the one to stick with.

post #2121 of 3096
I am just talking about light output maxed out so to speak. Don't read too much into my Pioneer is brighter than a ZT out of the box. I was really referring to each one at there respective time of acquisition. If you have had your Pioneer calibrated then you will be very happy with the ZT, it provides a great picture and will do a number of things better than your Pioneer in regards to picture quality - and yes I own a Kuro in addition to a Panny. Why are you so focused on max light output when you've been watching a plasma for 6 years. Coming from an LCD I might understand. The 8500 will be the brightest, but the ZT has a superior "real" contrast ratio so that alone will offer you more advantages than just a bright screen. I really don't understand the fixation on brightness, because there is SO much more to a picture than that. As a plasma owner for the past 6 years you should understand that.

P.S. Even a panel made 6 years ago you need to have spent tens of thousands of hours watching TV for it to be dimming.
post #2122 of 3096
The facts are though that the Kuro's are the brightest plasma's available outside of the Samsung.

And real contrast ratio non calibrated or especially calibrated the Pioneer blows away anything else plasma.

And yes the ZT is very good but imo it doesn't do anything better than the hugely underpriced at the time Kuro's.
post #2123 of 3096
I think my Pioneer Elite FHD-1 at the time was $6k.
Ken
post #2124 of 3096
Look in the store between the two of them? Sorry, but unless you live in a Best Buy (and if you do I really apologize), but going to look at them in the store is really pointless.

Panasonic has driven the innovation in plasma screens since Pioneer left the business. No reason to give your money to Korean knock offs.
post #2125 of 3096
It's a shame we have to travel down this road again, but the ZT60 does have better gradations and potentially even better shadow detail. There's no reason to believe 5 years of development courtesy of many of the same engineers would not provide any additional breakthroughs or benefits.
post #2126 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

It's a shame we have to travel down this road again, but the ZT60 does have better gradations and potentially even better shadow detail. There's no reason to believe 5 years of development courtesy of many of the same engineers would not provide any additional breakthroughs or benefits.

I agree with you. The only questions to ask yourself is how much are you willing to pay for each step up in quality.

"Korean Knockoffs" is a bit harsh. Samsung may be the only excellent plasma you can buy next year.
post #2127 of 3096
Samsung isn't my favorite CEM (their business practices, along with the likes of Sony, are just one of the reasons I tend to keep them at the bottom of my list), but I wasn't going to touch that statement with a 10-foot pole. You can take a guess as to which post I was responding. wink.gif
post #2128 of 3096
Well I went to Best Buy this evening. I don't live in a Best Buy but do live near one.

I bought the ZT60. I'm picking it up and their warehouse in the morning.

Actually buying from BB is a no brainer. They are running their Holiday return/exchange policy. I can return or exchange this display anytime by 1/15/14.

Hopefully, I won't have to.
post #2129 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

It's a shame we have to travel down this road again, but the ZT60 does have better gradations and potentially even better shadow detail. There's no reason to believe 5 years of development courtesy of many of the same engineers would not provide any additional breakthroughs or benefits.

What engineers were those ?, there (were) different teams of Kuro engineers. Didn't the majority go to SHARP ?

The Kuro monitors come out of black in a scarily good/way whilst at the same time holding on to mll.

I keep tweaking Pure mode every week and i can assure you once the rgb near black is even close to accurate, even by eye, there is more gradation than you would know what to do with smile.gif

Which in turn makes the 60 brightness steps /shadow details hugely finer/subtle, or even feel doubled somehow if that makes any sense
post #2130 of 3096
Not all of them. Panasonic certainly did scoop up some of them, as the Panasonic insider has intimated. When I had the sets side-by-side, the differences were too subtle to say definitively one is leagues better than the other. I guess the most groundbreaking breakthrough is the street price ($2800 not being unheard of in the twilight of the Panasonic plasma division).
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