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F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 84

post #2491 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckersvols View Post

I assumed this has to be true based on professional reviews. I just could not switch based on what I saw. Plus the ZT 65 inch was cheaper.

This is quite interesting, in Europe, at least in Sweden, the ZT60 is way more expensive than the F8500 despite only being available in 60" (at least that was the case until Panasonic declared it was moving out of the plasma business, but still the 60" ZT60 is quite a bit more expensive than the 64" F8500). As far as I know, this is not the case in the US, where F8500 and ZT60 seem to be more similar in price and not making that an important factor in which to get.
post #2492 of 3096
Hello folks,

I am in the finishing stages of my long awaited man cave.

Currently have a 58C7000 plasma in my upstairs family room, which has been a great set for me despite being in a smallish, bright room (does have blinds). Have done a lot of reading and looking and have settled on the 64F8500 and 65ZT as my two finalists. The set will be used both in dark and medium lighting situations with no windows for mostly sports, DirecTV programming, and some movies and games, mostly Kinect.

I have been to multiple places and seen the F8500, and it really seems to dominate the other sets in any room it is in. The detail seen on character's faces is something I have never seen on any other set. On a couple different BR movies--both animated and real-- every freckle, pore, whisker seemed almost hyper real. Laurence Fishburn's face looked so craggy and pitted in one scene I almost wanted them to pan away! Only unconverted BR material on the 4K 9000 was even similar to this. But even though all my HDTVs have been Sammy plasmas, I have always been intrigued by the Panasonics, despite never being "wowed" by then in overly bright store settings.

Tonight I stopped by BB Magnolia and they had the 65ZT right next to the 64F8500 and I was able to plug the same BR feed into both sets with multiple different material to choose from, and was allowed to mess with the settings as well. I watched them both for over an hour to compare. The Samsung still had noticeably more fine detail such as I have noticed before, but was really crushing the blacks in all presets until I turned the Dynamic Contrast off. The ZT I set to THX then THX Bright Room and left alone. No such black problems with it. To my eyes the Samsung still had that ultra crisp detail, while the Panasonic seemed to have more depth to the picture. Once I got the Dynamic Contrast turned off the shadow detail improved immensely on the 8500.

I am no expert in this stuff, but I feel I have seen the 8500, VT, and now ZT enough to feel pretty confident in what I have seen. Until tonight, I pretty much had my heart set on the 8500, but was pretty surprised they were offering the ZT at $300 less than the 8500. My negotiations didn't knock any upfront price off, only yielded me a $300 backend credit on either TV in the form of Reward Zone points to be redeemed towards other purchases. (They did, however, offer to knock a pretty big chunk out of the BR player, Jamo sound bar, and wall mount I also need). The money isn't a big factor in this case, but if I thought I could nurse a little more of that incredible crispness out of the ZT I can't help but think of how the $300 savings essentially pays for either the BR player I need, or most of an XBOX One or an additional theater chair.

The other thought that keeps running through my head is...will either of these sets be that much better than the 58C7000 I already have and could use? Obviously they will be larger...I am just not sure that side by side they are radically different in PQ because I have no way of comparing them short of buying one.

Sorry for the long winded post, just kind of stuck here and looking for some feedback.
post #2493 of 3096

Personally....if you are looking for that "crispness" look, I would go with the F8500.

 

The ZT60 looks softer to me in comparing the two.

post #2494 of 3096

STr jock I am running an xbox one through my brand new ZT and it looks great. Did you watch any blue rays wile comparing the two side by side? The 8500 admittedly looked bad in comparison where I looked at them but IMO I would compare them watching a blue ray also. I just switched from an LED and it has taken me a few days to get used to the brightness levels being so different.

post #2495 of 3096
Hey Strjock81,

If you decide to go with the Samsung you may want to see if this panel becomes available in a lower model for 2014. The CES starts next Tuesday, is this the Christmas for television enthusiasts!, and we should get info on Samsung’s TV line up for next year. Good Luck in which way you go.
post #2496 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strjock81 View Post

Hello folks,

I am in the finishing stages of my long awaited man cave.

Currently have a 58C7000 plasma in my upstairs family room, which has been a great set for me despite being in a smallish, bright room (does have blinds). Have done a lot of reading and looking and have settled on the 64F8500 and 65ZT as my two finalists. The set will be used both in dark and medium lighting situations with no windows for mostly sports, DirecTV programming, and some movies and games, mostly Kinect.

I have been to multiple places and seen the F8500, and it really seems to dominate the other sets in any room it is in. The detail seen on character's faces is something I have never seen on any other set. On a couple different BR movies--both animated and real-- every freckle, pore, whisker seemed almost hyper real. Laurence Fishburn's face looked so craggy and pitted in one scene I almost wanted them to pan away! Only unconverted BR material on the 4K 9000 was even similar to this. But even though all my HDTVs have been Sammy plasmas, I have always been intrigued by the Panasonics, despite never being "wowed" by then in overly bright store settings.

Tonight I stopped by BB Magnolia and they had the 65ZT right next to the 64F8500 and I was able to plug the same BR feed into both sets with multiple different material to choose from, and was allowed to mess with the settings as well. I watched them both for over an hour to compare. The Samsung still had noticeably more fine detail such as I have noticed before, but was really crushing the blacks in all presets until I turned the Dynamic Contrast off. The ZT I set to THX then THX Bright Room and left alone. No such black problems with it. To my eyes the Samsung still had that ultra crisp detail, while the Panasonic seemed to have more depth to the picture. Once I got the Dynamic Contrast turned off the shadow detail improved immensely on the 8500.

I am no expert in this stuff, but I feel I have seen the 8500, VT, and now ZT enough to feel pretty confident in what I have seen. Until tonight, I pretty much had my heart set on the 8500, but was pretty surprised they were offering the ZT at $300 less than the 8500. My negotiations didn't knock any upfront price off, only yielded me a $300 backend credit on either TV in the form of Reward Zone points to be redeemed towards other purchases. (They did, however, offer to knock a pretty big chunk out of the BR player, Jamo sound bar, and wall mount I also need). The money isn't a big factor in this case, but if I thought I could nurse a little more of that incredible crispness out of the ZT I can't help but think of how the $300 savings essentially pays for either the BR player I need, or most of an XBOX One or an additional theater chair.

The other thought that keeps running through my head is...will either of these sets be that much better than the 58C7000 I already have and could use? Obviously they will be larger...I am just not sure that side by side they are radically different in PQ because I have no way of comparing them short of buying one.

Sorry for the long winded post, just kind of stuck here and looking for some feedback.

I thought the F85 was sharper than the Panasonic too, but I don't like that look. I think if you like the F8500 more you should spend the extra $300 as money wasn't too huge a factor. You are coming from a Samsung and you would be purchasing a brighter, larger set that achieves better black levels than the C model.

If you don't have a strong preference after your experiments, buy the cheaper TV and get one of the items you mentioned or a pro calibration. These items just strengthen your purchase anyway.
post #2497 of 3096
My modest report from BB Magnolia today.

Background and context first...

I've been saying for a couple of years, that I wanted to upgrade from 50" to 60" - 65" whenever a (not insanely priced) plasma TV was available, that was as good or better than my 50" Kuro for my purposes.

I've been in something of a state of high anxiety, knowing that the availability of the Panasonic plasmas is beginning to wind down. Am I in a "now or never" situation? Are any of the current flagship plasma "good enough" for my purposes?

My viewing environment can be charitably described as "non-optimal". In a room with four large windows, facing east, west, and two of them south. Non-optimal lighting situation at night. The windows have blinds, but the family wants the plasma to look "really good" even in the daytime when they don't feel like closing the blinds. I'm quite particular about how blu-ray and quality HD look on the display, but I have to balance the preferences and behaviors of multiple constituents. It will never be a true "bat cave".

My 50" Kuro has done an outstanding job of performing such that I am happy when watching it on my terms, and my family is happy when watching it on their terms. It's only fault is that it is 50". I DEEPLY regret not buying the Kuro in 60" back when I could.

But on to the present day...

After reading and studying a lot about the current Panasonic and Samsung offerings, I addressed my anxiety by taking a trip to BB Magnolia and looking at them for an hour+. These are my modest, mostly subjective impressions, and my conclusion as regards myself.

Bottom line on top:

* One cannot conclude anything for sure by looking at BB, because their setup of the displays is so erratic.

* I do not need to panic (yet). It's not "now or never".

The viewing environment at Magnolia was pretty good. Dim, indirect lighting, dark brown wood finish on the walls. Well separated and offset from the rest of the store.

The displays were obviously not setup correctly. This was evident because the VT60 and the ZT60, one above the other, rendered colors differently. The whites (snow scenes) on the Panasonic VT were, as some have reported, slightly grayish; this was not a surprise. The surprise was that the whites on the ZT were yellowish; distinctly, obviously, slightly yellowy, like old teeth. This told me that the ZT was simply not adjusted correctly. It was so obvious, that I was astounded that nobody on staff had noticed and bothered to fix it.

In spite of this, I liked the picture on the ZT better than the VT. Factoring out the mis-adjusted color, the ZT was more Kuro-like. However, both the VT and the ZT were obviously dimmer than my 50" Kuro. This was also not a surprise, and is consistent with much that I have read.

Realism ("looking through a window") is quite important to me, maybe the #1 most important thing. The displays really do, in my opinion, appear to have different strengths, probably independent of adjustment.

* The Panasonics offer a sense of "depth", which is something that I really value in my Kuro and have tweaked it to try to maximize.

* The Samsung offers a sense of "presence", which can look artificial if taken too far, but which does have it's place. I would have liked to have had more of that on my Kuro, but I was never able to tweak my Kuro to that sense of "presence" without messing it up in some way.

Those differences are largely a matter of personal preference.

The display that I liked best was the Samsung 8500. It rendered whites correctly compared to the Panasonics. To my eyes, at least, and with the Magnolia source material, I saw no loss of detail in the whites. The blacks and black detail also seemed OK. I believe that the Panasonic blacks had very slightly more detail, but for my purposes the Samsung would be fine.

I may be extra-sensitive to the dimness of the Panasonic displays versus the better white performance of the Samsung because the 59 year old lenses in my eyes do not transmit as much light as they used to. Plus, there is my viewing environment. For younger eyes, in a "bat cave", the Panasonics might well be the best displays.

However, I could live with what I saw on the Samsung, and knowing that it may not have been properly adjusted just encouraged me more that I could make the Samsung sing in my environment, as replacement for my 50" Kuro, if it was my only option.

End of story:

* You can't believe everything you see at Magnolia, even when the viewing environment is good, because the ZT was so obviously maladjusted.

* Due to the fact that there was obvious display maladjustment, one cannot conclude that the Samsung is actually better than the Panasonics. With proper calibration, who knows, the Panasonics might beat the Samsung (although the relative dimness of the Panasonics would probably be an issue in my environment with my eyes).

* There is at least one display left out there that appears to suit my purposes.

* So no need for panic. I can wait to see what 2014 brings, knowing that, if necessary, I can grab a a 60"+ 8500 and subject it to proper calibration and adjustment, and there's a 99% chance that it will make me happier than my 50" Kuro.
Edited by shadowspawn - 12/31/13 at 2:09pm
post #2498 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

My modest report from BB Magnolia today.

Background and context first...

I've been saying for a couple of years, that I wanted to upgrade from 50" to 60" - 65" whenever a (not insanely priced) plasma TV was available, that was as good or better than my 50" Kuro for my purposes.

I've been in something of a state of high anxiety, knowing that the availability of the Panasonic plasmas is beginning to wind down. Am I in a "now or never" situation? Are any of the current flagship plasma "good enough" for my purposes?

My viewing environment can be charitably described as "non-optimal". In a room with four large windows, facing east, west, and two of them south. Non-optimal lighting situation at night. The windows have blinds, but the family wants the plasma to look "really good" even in the daytime when they don't feel like closing the blinds. I'm quite particular about how blu-ray and quality HD look on the display, but I have to balance the preferences and behaviors of multiple constituents. It will never be a true "bat cave".

My 50" Kuro has done an outstanding job of performing such that I am happy when watching it on my terms, and my family is happy when watching it on their terms. It's only fault is that it is 50". I DEEPLY regret not buying the Kuro in 60" back when I could.

But on to the present day...

After reading and studying a lot about the current Panasonic and Samsung offerings, I addressed my anxiety by taking a trip to BB Magnolia and looking at them for an hour+. These are my modest, mostly subjective impressions, and my conclusion as regards myself.


As mentioned before, I don't think anyone who isn't a fanboy of wishful thinking can claim either of the the ZT60 or F8500 as "best" all in all. They are both great TVs, and compared to most other TVs on the market, they are quite similar, but still, have different strengths and weaknesses. If you mostly watch TV in the dark and does not require to much image brightness (or even prefer not to have it) go with the VT60 or ZT60, if you want a TV that is more all around and works better in bright rooms but still is great in dark rooms, go with the F8500. Most other differences, perhaps besides the fan-problem, seem to be mostly related to different settings.
Edited by improwise - 1/1/14 at 3:58am
post #2499 of 3096
Thanks for the replies to my posts.

Still haven't decided yet...I am thinking of getting the Oppo 103D (the one with Darblet) and am wondering if this would bring more of that sharpness I like about the 8500 to the ZT60. It also can be used to upscale and process SD and shoddy satellite HD inputs, which is another issue Panasonics have IMO.

I almost feel like I am trying to talk myself into the Panasonic just to try something different when I actually liked the Samsung a little better. Then again I've never had a professional calibration done so maybe I'm not even seeing what either TV can do.
post #2500 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

If you're leaning towards the ZT60 then time is becoming a factor if you want to buy from a reputable retailer. I wonder how many are holding out for the 2014 CES before deciding on their next plasma. If you commit to a 2014 Samsung plasma then there's no turning back to the ZT60 because they'll all be gone by the time the 2014's are available for retail sale.

91 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon (12/30)

35 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon

Ouch, I don't like how this is trending. Part of my decision making is contingent on Samsung's 2014 plasma line up.
post #2501 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strjock81 View Post

Thanks for the replies to my posts.

Still haven't decided yet...I am thinking of getting the Oppo 103D (the one with Darblet) and am wondering if this would bring more of that sharpness I like about the 8500 to the ZT60. It also can be used to upscale and process SD and shoddy satellite HD inputs, which is another issue Panasonics have IMO.

I almost feel like I am trying to talk myself into the Panasonic just to try something different when I actually liked the Samsung a little better. Then again I've never had a professional calibration done so maybe I'm not even seeing what either TV can do.

I do not have a Darbee, but I guess the questions is what content are you looking to improve with the Darbee? If you have BD content then I am not a big fan of trying to enhance BD as I have my TV calibrated and feel the Oppo 103 does an awesome job as is on BD content. It is funny how people want sharpness and I am just as guilty, but the first thing all the ISF guys do when they calibrate your set is turn the sharpness to 0. It took a while for me to,accept that as I always watched over sharpened content, but now I love my picture. I also do not watch much SD content any more and the regular Oppo does an awesome job up sampling SD and my concerns with Satellite is they already down Rez and compress the crap out of it, so any enhances are taking garbage and tweaking it. Now as I said I have not seen a Darbee in action, but with all the macro blocking and crap that Satellite introduces, sharpness is the last of my concerns. That said the Panasonic is awesome on its own merit.
post #2502 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

If you're leaning towards the ZT60 then time is becoming a factor if you want to buy from a reputable retailer. I wonder how many are holding out for the 2014 CES before deciding on their next plasma. If you commit to a 2014 Samsung plasma then there's no turning back to the ZT60 because they'll all be gone by the time the 2014's are available for retail sale.

91 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon (12/30)

35 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon

Ouch, I don't like how this is trending. Part of my decision making is contingent on Samsung's 2014 plasma line up.

Same boat here. Getting anxious...
post #2503 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightintel View Post

Same boat here. Getting anxious...

Me too. But in all honesty, I doubt I will be able to tell the difference between the two in my setup and thinking I'll be able to score a 64" F8500 for at or under 2k in a month or two
post #2504 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

Me too. But in all honesty, I doubt I will be able to tell the difference between the two in my setup and thinking I'll be able to score a 64" F8500 for at or under 2k in a month or two

I think they may drop a little but don't think $2K is likely for the 64".

Then you've got the question of how will the 2014s be different.
post #2505 of 3096
Well its only about $350 away from that (still a great buy at $2350 though)
post #2506 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rightintel View Post

Same boat here. Getting anxious...

Me too. But in all honesty, I doubt I will be able to tell the difference between the two in my setup and thinking I'll be able to score a 64" F8500 for at or under 2k in a month or two

From what I understand they'll still be taking orders for awhile. CES is this month, so hopefully some light will be shed on the best move soon.
post #2507 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightintel View Post

From what I understand they'll still be taking orders for awhile. CES is this month, so hopefully some light will be shed on the best move soon.

The CES starts on Tuesday. You're fine if you're deciding between the F8500 and what Samsung has in store for 2014. Not so much if you're deciding between a 2014 Samsung plasma (I have hopes the F8500 panel we'll have a more functional base) and the ZT60.

35 28 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon. That's 7 units sold in almost 4 hours. I obviously know there are other retailers but I suspect Amazon's inventory is a good barometer.
post #2508 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

The CES starts on Tuesday. You're fine if you're deciding between the F8500 and what Samsung has in store for 2014. Not so much if you're deciding between a 2014 Samsung plasma (I have hopes the F8500 panel we'll have a more functional base) and the ZT60.

35 28 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon. That's 7 units sold in almost 4 hours. I obviously know there are other retailers but I suspect Amazon's inventory is a good barometer.

The question is, are these the final displays? Panasonic said it would end production in December, so it is possible there are still inbound inventory to resellers, but I suspect even if so not many more. The end of an era is approaching quickly.
post #2509 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I do not have a Darbee, but I guess the questions is what content are you looking to improve with the Darbee? If you have BD content then I am not a big fan of trying to enhance BD as I have my TV calibrated and feel the Oppo 103 does an awesome job as is on BD content. It is funny how people want sharpness and I am just as guilty, but the first thing all the ISF guys do when they calibrate your set is turn the sharpness to 0. It took a while for me to,accept that as I always watched over sharpened content, but now I love my picture. I also do not watch much SD content any more and the regular Oppo does an awesome job up sampling SD and my concerns with Satellite is they already down Rez and compress the crap out of it, so any enhances are taking garbage and tweaking it. Now as I said I have not seen a Darbee in action, but with all the macro blocking and crap that Satellite introduces, sharpness is the last of my concerns. That said the Panasonic is awesome on its own merit.

It isn't sharpness, per se. The Samsung is resolving things and displaying them that simply aren't there on the Panasonic. It is like this across every other TV I have compared it to, as well. And it isn't that the Samsung is manufacturing these details out of thin air. With the same exact Blu Ray feed on the ZT60 and F8500 sitting side by side, there was clearly more detail, particularly in facial details like wrinkles, freckles, etc. on the Samsung, regardless of settings. So my question regarding the Darblet stems from having read many reviews, and having seen some before and after pictures showing how the Darblet processing gives that extra detail to Blu Ray content like the Samsung displays natively. It is almost like the F8500 has it's own Darbee processing built-in, IMO.

So I thought the Darbee, plus the added ZT60 depth factor, *might* be a winning combination. My biggest concern with the Panny is future customer service and parts availability. That being said, I have never really had to get a TV repaired before, knock on wood.
post #2510 of 3096
I question the claims of said details not being there in any other display. The F8500 may very well be using processing to bring out these fine details more, however, and that is one thing that intrigues me about getting the Darbee for the ZT60.
post #2511 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

The CES starts on Tuesday. You're fine if you're deciding between the F8500 and what Samsung has in store for 2014. Not so much if you're deciding between a 2014 Samsung plasma (I have hopes the F8500 panel we'll have a more functional base) and the ZT60.

35 28 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon. That's 7 units sold in almost 4 hours. I obviously know there are other retailers but I suspect Amazon's inventory is a good barometer.

The question is, are these the final displays? Panasonic said it would end production in December, so it is possible there are still inbound inventory to resellers, but I suspect even if so not many more. The end of an era is approaching quickly.

I just read today Panny's taking orders Thru march 2014. I should've linked it, but i can't remember where it was.
post #2512 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I question the claims of said details not being there in any other display. The F8500 may very well be using processing to bring out these fine details more, however, and that is one thing that intrigues me about getting the Darbee for the ZT60.

I have and use the Darbee with both my F8500 and D7000. You can use it on anything, really. Hell, I had both Darbees daisy-chained on my F8500 for a couple of months (using some Full Pop on the second one), but later decided I'd prefer the effect on both sets than more on just one set.

It's worth it on any set or projector.
post #2513 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strjock81 View Post

It isn't sharpness, per se. The Samsung is resolving things and displaying them that simply aren't there on the Panasonic. It is like this across every other TV I have compared it to, as well. And it isn't that the Samsung is manufacturing these details out of thin air. With the same exact Blu Ray feed on the ZT60 and F8500 sitting side by side, there was clearly more detail, particularly in facial details like wrinkles, freckles, etc. on the Samsung, regardless of settings. So my question regarding the Darblet stems from having read many reviews, and having seen some before and after pictures showing how the Darblet processing gives that extra detail to Blu Ray content like the Samsung displays natively. It is almost like the F8500 has it's own Darbee processing built-in, IMO.

So I thought the Darbee, plus the added ZT60 depth factor, *might* be a winning combination. My biggest concern with the Panny is future customer service and parts availability. That being said, I have never really had to get a TV repaired before, knock on wood.

Interesting, I have not red about this missing detail in any of the reviews, I know BB warranty is expensive, but they really stand behind their warranties. I got the 5 year warranty so,if for some reason they can't repair it they will give me another TV, of course if there are no plasmas that would sy puck, but I too have never had a tv repaired and even my buddy who had a Panny plasma a while back fail, it was not the panel and he just had the circuit board replaced under warranty. That is also why my VT50 is moving to the basement, it too has 3.5 years of BB warranty left and will serve as a backup set if the ZT fails and can not be repaired.
post #2514 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightintel View Post

I just read today Panny's taking orders Thru march 2014. I should've linked it, but i can't remember where it was.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57610172-93/panasonic-to-pull-the-plug-on-plasma-tv-panels/

Looks like they stopped making panels in December, but production will end in March so that is decent news that there still will be some more to sell.
post #2515 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

As mentioned before, I don't think anyone who isn't a fanboy of wishful thinking can claim either of the the ZT60 or F8500 as "best" all in all. They are both great TVs, and compared to most other TVs on the market, they are quite similar, but still, have different strengths and weaknesses. If you mostly watch TV in the dark and does not require to much image brightness (or even prefer not to have it) go with the VT60 or ZT60, if you want a TV that is more all around and works better in bright rooms but still is great in dark rooms, go with the F8500. Most other differences, perhaps besides the fan-problem, seem to be mostly related to different settings.

The best post in this thread so far.
post #2516 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightintel View Post

I just read today Panny's taking orders Thru march 2014. I should've linked it, but i can't remember where it was.

That would be great but how can that be since their plasma production ended last month?
post #2517 of 3096
Amazon's stock fluctuates up and down. Just because the ZT60 is down to some 30 odd number in stock for now, doesn't necessarily mean that this is their final, very last remaining stock. They may yet pull some more stock in.
post #2518 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

That would be great but how can that be since their plasma production ended last month?

They ceased panel production but I assume there are a whole lot of panels sitting around to be assembled into complete televisions between now and March depending on order volume.
post #2519 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

Amazon's stock fluctuates up and down. Just because the ZT60 is down to some 30 odd number in stock for now, doesn't necessarily mean that this is their final, very last remaining stock. They may yet pull some more stock in.

I understand that but going by what happened with the ST60 I suspect inventory may not be replenished. I see they are only available from 3rd party retailers on Amazon.

Please note the December 19 update from the link below:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57610230-221/tv-shoppers-now-is-the-time-to-buy-a-panasonic-plasma/

And keep in mind the ZT60 was a low inventory item to start with.

23 65" ZT60 units remaining from Amazon (with current inventory)
819 65" VT60 units remaining from Amazon (now I can believe this model may last till March)
post #2520 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

As mentioned before, I don't think anyone who isn't a fanboy of wishful thinking can claim either of the the ZT60 or F8500 as "best" all in all. They are both great TVs, and compared to most other TVs on the market, they are quite similar, but still, have different strengths and weaknesses. If you mostly watch TV in the dark and does not require to much image brightness (or even prefer not to have it) go with the VT60 or ZT60, if you want a TV that is more all around and works better in bright rooms but still is great in dark rooms, go with the F8500. Most other differences, perhaps besides the fan-problem, seem to be mostly related to different settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

The best post in this thread so far.

What's equally as good is what the panel of experts at the 2013 VE HDTV Shootout opined in the Q&A session. Even though as a group they personally favored the ZT60/VT60 they pretty much echoed what improwise stated. And it should be pointed out that they thought the F8500 was revolutionary in its brightness. But it should also be pointed that D-Nice didn't like the floating blacks of the F8500 but a firmware update greatly reduce but not completely eliminated the problem. You only need to watch the first 10 minutes of the YouTube video to verify my interpretation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcXcsN37v1I
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ?????