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F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 10

post #271 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn1ffb0 View Post

Why would anyone go with a Panny when the F8500 delivers a much better picture?

For some sure, but for others the VT\ZT may.....

.I see what you tried to do there though wink.gif this is a gernade that has just been dropped in this thread biggrin.gif
post #272 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

You sure do like to name drop Robert alot rolleyes.gif

Just the fact that they are already having to rollout a firmware shows how many issues they have - Insert reply "And Panny does not have issues?".

I just don't get why anyone would go with the F8500. True, it might do better in bright rooms, but if you are buying for that reason, why not get an LCD? An LCD would for sure be better than plasma in most bright rooms. If your room is dark, why not go with the Panasonic which has much better black levels and shadow detail?

So you are assuming people either watch the TV full time in a cave or full time in a bright room. Keep in mind most people watch TV in both different conditions.
I watch TV shows and sports in a bright room but watch movies in a dark room. Would LCD be suitable? No, not when I watch movies. Would the conventional Plasma be suitable? No, because I need more brightness while watching Sports and TV shows in a bright room

So here came for the FIRST TIME a plasma that combines the two technologies together. People who are like me and want both of the worlds should not hesitate on getting F8500.
post #273 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Crap in one hand and wish in the otha'. biggrin.gif

LOL!!!!

I know it will never happen, but we can wish right? wink.gif

I also know its only going to get 100X worse after and during the shootout.....
post #274 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I don't think it will be a significant stepup, but every little bit helps.

by significant i mean noticeable by the naked eye.

any small change in blacks in significant to me... assuming i can see it. i watch a lot of movies in the dark so i'm sure i would. but manufacturers have been known to do weird things and have the same or worse PQ in higher end sets with more features, slimmer bezels, and other 'improvements' i could never appreciate at the cost of PQ

by all accounts it sounds like the ZT was a picture first design, but i'm not convinced yet that the VT wasn't made to compete on the smart features
post #275 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

by significant i mean noticeable by the naked eye.

any small change in blacks in significant to me... assuming i can see it. i watch a lot of movies in the dark so i'm sure i would. but manufacturers have been known to do weird things and have the same or worse PQ in higher end sets with more features, slimmer bezels, and other 'improvements' i could never appreciate at the cost of PQ

by all accounts it sounds like the ZT was a picture first design, but i'm not convinced yet that the VT wasn't made to compete on the smart features
I'm in the same boat...I hope it smashes the black level record of any plasma to date. I'll definitely be able to appreciate that in my primary viewing environment. The ZT actually has a reduction in features in comparison to the VT, so I can't understand why Panasonic wouldn't ensure that the performance makes up for that. wink.gif
post #276 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

So you are assuming people either watch the TV full time in a cave or full time in a bright room. Keep in mind most people watch TV in both different conditions.
I watch TV shows and sports in a bright room but watch movies in a dark room. Would LCD be suitable? No, not when I watch movies. Would the conventional Plasma be suitable? No, because I need more brightness while watching Sports and TV shows in a bright room

So here came for the FIRST TIME a plasma that combines the two technologies together. People who are like me and want both of the worlds should not hesitate on getting F8500.

i agree, i'm a lover of deep blacks, but i'm still impressed with the picture of LED's in a bright room. i thought it would take full array, local dimming LED to give a 'best of both worlds' but it does look like samsung has done it better with the plasma. it's plenty bright, that's not even a concern. i mean sure, LED's can blind you a bit more, but i don't like staring at bright lights anyway.

it may not be the best for a dark room(i honestly don't know though, it seems pretty darn close), and it may not be the best for a really bright room(but that filter handles overhead lights extremely well!), but it's the only TV i've seen that comes as close as it does to both sides. i had all but written off samsung, but now it seems to be the tv to beat for me. ST60 is still a wicked value, and i'm not sure if i'll get much more for the extra investment, but between the VT and F8500, the F8500 looks at least as good and costs less, i'd give the edge to the sammy on smart features too. it's really close this year for year. unless the ZT drops a bombshell and matches the brightness of the sammy while maintaining or beating the blacks of the VT/ST, i really don't see there could be a 'clear winner' this year. last year the VT50 walked away with it, but this year it's only subtle differences and some ppl will appreciate either displays
Edited by fierce_gt - 4/26/13 at 10:00am
post #277 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

LOL!!!!

I know it will never happen, but we can wish right? wink.gif

I also know its only going to get 100X worse after and during the shootout.....

Actually the shootout should make it pretty cut and dry as to which is best (in most enviornments).
post #278 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Actually the shootout should make it pretty cut and dry as to which is best (in most enviornments).

the shoot out should help, but it'll also give fuel to both sides.

ie, if the shoot out determines the ZT has the best blacks, that will give the samsung haters something to use as 'proof' to panasonics superiority. on the other hand, if it turns out the panny has an extra 10ms of input lag, then the sammy supporters will use that as a reason why the panasonic is unacceptable.

the arguments will just become boring cause we'll hear the exact same complaints over and over and over.
post #279 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Actually the shootout should make it pretty cut and dry as to which is best (in most enviornments).

please define "most environments"...Id like to see the study that shows what they are......The best rated TV is not always the best for a specific person....I think people get "clouded" when they come to these forums and think that most people have light controlled environments, its just not the case...

This is just my speculation but here is what I think the shootout will turn out:

1.ZT60
2.VT60
3.F8500
....the rest

Does that mean the ZT60 is the best for everyone or even most people? no....

I mean we've had this discussion over and over (circles and circles) and the same thing comes up, people cant get past why someone would watch TV in a bright enviornment OR why not jsut by blinds or drapes, then we ahve those that are of the thinking if you have a bright room then why not go LCD....Of course if you can get near the brightness of and LCD for the Day and get "good" black levels for night, then you may have a winner for your specific situation (and I dont mean you personally just a general "you")...Then you have those that cant get past why would anyone need more brightness than I need, well some people do, there is a reason there is a large LCD market...

In the end it seems that the circles and circles are being driven by what I want and whats best for me vs what someone else wants and is best for them they are not always the same thing...
post #280 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

You sure do like to name drop Robert alot rolleyes.gif

Just the fact that they are already having to rollout a firmware shows how many issues they have - Insert reply "And Panny does not have issues?".

I just don't get why anyone would go with the F8500. True, it might do better in bright rooms, but if you are buying for that reason, why not get an LCD? An LCD would for sure be better than plasma in most bright rooms. If your room is dark, why not go with the Panasonic which has much better black levels and shadow detail?


i just don't get why anyone would make such a statement???
post #281 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the shoot out should help, but it'll also give fuel to both sides.

ie, if the shoot out determines the ZT has the best blacks, that will give the samsung haters something to use as 'proof' to panasonics superiority. on the other hand, if it turns out the panny has an extra 10ms of input lag, then the sammy supporters will use that as a reason why the panasonic is unacceptable.

the arguments will just become boring cause we'll hear the exact same complaints over and over and over.

Happens every year.... frown.gif
post #282 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

please define "most environments"...Id like to see the study that shows what they are......The best rated TV is not always the best for a specific person....I think people get "clouded" when they come to these forums and think that most people have light controlled environments, its just not the case...

This is just my speculation but here is what I think the shootout will turn out:

1.ZT60
2.VT60
3.F8500
....the rest

Does that mean the ZT60 is the best for everyone or even most people? no....

I mean we've had this discussion over and over (circles and circles) and the same thing comes up, people cant get past why someone would watch TV in a bright enviornment OR why not jsut by blinds or drapes, then we ahve those that are of the thinking if you have a bright room then why not go LCD....Of course if you can get near the brightness of and LCD for the Day and get "good" black levels for night, then you may have a winner for your specific situation (and I dont mean you personally just a general "you")...Then you have those that cant get past why would anyone need more brightness than I need, well some people do, there is a reason there is a large LCD market...

In the end it seems that the circles and circles are being driven by what I want and whats best for me vs what someone else wants and is best for them they are not always the same thing...

Of course people will nit-pick the results and apply them to their own situation. But IMO the shootout has a way of determining the best TV available to people in typical veiwing enviornments (i.e. not too bright).

As an aside, did they determine if the 4K sets will be included? Those might have a good shot of cracking your predicted top 3.
post #283 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

i just don't get why anyone would make such a statement???

Spoken just like someone who has an F8500 in their signature.
post #284 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Spoken just like someone who has an F8500 in their signature.

yup! i happen to love plasma pq depth and the versatility this set gives.....
post #285 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Of course people will nit-pick the results and apply them to their own situation. But IMO the shootout has a way of determining the best TV available to people in typical veiwing enviornments (i.e. not too bright).

As an aside, did they determine if the 4K sets will be included? Those might have a good shot of cracking your predicted top 3.

As farr as "typical" goes agian, I think to members of the forum it may be typical to have a room thats "not too bright", but for the overall population, not so sure.....Theres typical AVS and the like forums and then there is the buying public, not sure why people cant see outside of what they see and know from the forums and the small circle of friends and family they know....Its like the Neilsen ratings, we take small segment of the population and then we apply that to everyone wink.gif

The Sony x900A is going to be included, if you go to the VE site they have the list of sets that will be competing during the shootout. I am happy he decided to add it and not exclude it simply becasue its "4K"......As far as cracking the top three I think the drawbacks of LCD (especially since they are edge lit not backlit) will prevent it from cracking the top 3, JMOHO though.....

Robert may also brig his personal Kuro to the event and put it to the side for reference only it will not be judged at all and is purely there because that question WILL be asked if they didnt do it.....
post #286 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

yup! i happen to love plasma pq depth and the versatility this set gives.....

Congrats - glad YOU like the set.
post #287 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

As farr as "typical" goes agian, I think to members of the forum it may be typical to have a room thats "not too bright", but for the overall population, not so sure.....Theres typical AVS and the like forums and then there is the buying public, not sure why people cant see outside of what they see and know from the forums and the small circle of friends and family they know....Its like the Neilsen ratings, we take small segment of the population and then we apply that to everyone wink.gif

The Sony x900A is going to be included, if you go to the VE site they have the list of sets that will be competing during the shootout. I am happy he decided to add it and not exclude it simply becasue its "4K"......As far as cracking the top three I think the drawbacks of LCD (especially since they are edge lit not backlit) will prevent it from cracking the top 3, JMOHO though.....

Robert may also brig his personal Kuro to the event and put it to the side for reference only it will not be judged at all and is purely there because that question WILL be asked if they didnt do it.....

Hmm, I saw that set in Best Buy and was not too impressed - typical LCD drawbacks as you mentioned. For my eyes, 4K doesn't make a huge difference at that level from typical viewing distances. I did see the 84" XBR set as well, though, and was floored. Was hoping that set would be included, but size and pricing makes it sort of unfair to judge in the same league.
post #288 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

You sure do like to name drop Robert alot rolleyes.gif

Just the fact that they are already having to rollout a firmware shows how many issues they have - Insert reply "And Panny does not have issues?".

I just don't get why anyone would go with the F8500. True, it might do better in bright rooms, but if you are buying for that reason, why not get an LCD? An LCD would for sure be better than plasma in most bright rooms. If your room is dark, why not go with the Panasonic which has much better black levels and shadow detail?

There are so many obnoxious comments here, I won't even bother responding directly to this. I find it insulting. rolleyes.gif
post #289 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

So you are assuming people either watch the TV full time in a cave or full time in a bright room. Keep in mind most people watch TV in both different conditions.

That's just one of the reasons I didn't respond directly to that inane post. Apparently he also doesn't understand the concept of 'giving credit where credit is due'. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

I watch TV shows and sports in a bright room but watch movies in a dark room. Would LCD be suitable? No, not when I watch movies. Would the conventional Plasma be suitable? No, because I need more brightness while watching Sports and TV shows in a bright room

So here came for the FIRST TIME a plasma that combines the two technologies together. People who are like me and want both of the worlds should not hesitate on getting F8500.

Now please, there is no room for logic in this thread Halimali, you should know that by now. biggrin.gif
post #290 of 3096
With the new tech in both the zt and 8500, I wouldn't buy either till the end of the year to see if any horrors show up.
post #291 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post


it may not be the best for a dark room(i honestly don't know though, it seems pretty darn close), and it may not be the best for a really bright room(but that filter handles overhead lights extremely well!), but it's the only TV i've seen that comes as close as it does to both sides. i had all but written off samsung, but now it seems to be the tv to beat for me. ST60 is still a wicked value, and i'm not sure if i'll get much more for the extra investment, but between the VT and F8500, the F8500 looks at least as good and costs less, i'd give the edge to the sammy on smart features too. it's really close this year for year. unless the ZT drops a bombshell and matches the brightness of the sammy while maintaining or beating the blacks of the VT/ST, i really don't see there could be a 'clear winner' this year. last year the VT50 walked away with it, but this year it's only subtle differences and some ppl will appreciate either displays

If the ZT is really capable of even approaching the brightness levels of the 8500 and beats it in black levels, in a visibly significant way, not just a 'measured' way, then it might well be my choice. But if the difference in black levels is only marginally seen, and then only in a totally blackened room with only the darkest of material and even then only appreciated in an A/B environment, then I think I'd move on.
post #292 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

With the new tech in both the zt and 8500, I wouldn't buy either till the end of the year to see if any horrors show up.

reason why i got an extended warranty wink.gif
post #293 of 3096
I'm also really interesting in how the whites perform (namely ABL behavior) in the F8500 vs the VT/ZT. I assume all displays will be calibrated to around 35 fl (if it follows last year) this will be interesting.
post #294 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

please define "most environments"...Id like to see the study that shows what they are......The best rated TV is not always the best for a specific person....I think people get "clouded" when they come to these forums and think that most people have light controlled environments, its just not the case...

This is just my speculation but here is what I think the shootout will turn out:

1.ZT60
2.VT60
3.F8500
....the rest

Does that mean the ZT60 is the best for everyone or even most people? no....

But wouldn't it be fascinating to see these results in a controlled, blind voting environment where nobody knows what the display they're watching is. The Panny lovers as well as the Sammy lovers would have no idea which display was which. We'd eliminate all the hype that I believe can impact the way people vote.

Now that would be voting that would truly be interesting. I'd just bet the voting results would deviate from the way it's typically carried out. How much I have no idea, but I'd be surprised if the results (whatever they are) were the same.
post #295 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

i just don't get why anyone would make such a statement???

Not me. Comments from certain posters no longer surprise me. wink.gif
post #296 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

If the ZT is really capable of even approaching the brightness levels of the 8500 and beats it in black levels, in a visibly significant way, not just a 'measured' way, then it might well be my choice. But if the difference in black levels is only marginally seen, and then only in a totally blackened room with only the darkest of material and even then only appreciated in an A/B environment, then I think I'd move on.

See, I think this is where you (and many others in this thread) and I differ. I own a VT50 and do not think it needs to be brighter, at all. If any improvements are to be made, I want them made at the lower end of the spectrum with better black levels, shadow detail, and clarity. If the 8500 is the best overall in those categories, then that will be what I go with (given a lower % of QC issues being reported than last year).
post #297 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Not me. Comments from certain posters no longer surprise me. wink.gif

Ditto.
post #298 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

But wouldn't it be fascinating to see these results in a controlled, blind voting environment where nobody knows what the display they're watching is. The Panny lovers as well as the Sammy lovers would have no idea which display was which. We'd eliminate all the hype that I believe can impact the way people vote.

Now that would be voting that would truly be interesting. I'd just bet the voting results would deviate from the way it's typically carried out. How much I have no idea, but I'd be surprised if the results (whatever they are) were the same.


Id really like to see this (masked voting) Ive said it before wink.gif that way brand bias doesnt take any part of the voting it would be purely based on picture quality and what the voter sees\prefers....Then have voting again afterwards whent he sets are revealed to see if it changes.....Maybe in a future shootout this will happen...The votes may very well deviate, but until it happens we'll never know....
post #299 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

Congrats - glad YOU like the set.

Let me ask you something "dad". Wouldn't it have been nicer if you simply responded "Congrats- glad you liked the set". If you were teaching your son manners, would you use your post as an example of good manners? But you couldn't help yourself, you had to use "YOU". I just don't understand why you post this way. The guy made a decision and bought the set. He loves it. Congratulate him without the sarcasm or simply don't respond...or is that simply not possible for you? Why make an attempt to make someone doubt their purchase, feel badly or unsure of themselves?

I suspect he's very comfortable one way or the other, but really, when you look at your post, do you think it was a nice way to respond?
post #300 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Id really like to see this (masked voting) Ive said it before wink.gif that way brand bias doesnt take any part of the voting it would be purely based on picture quality and what the voter sees\prefers....Then have voting again afterwards whent he sets are revealed to see if it changes.....Maybe in a future shootout this will happen...The votes may very well deviate, but until it happens we'll never know....

Brand Bias? I doubt that is a real factor. Although Panny won last year, Sharp won the year before.
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