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F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 26

post #751 of 3096
Greetings LarryInRI and i don't have words to thank you and zoyd for the "brightness pops" fix, it fixes but it causes pixel misfires on my 51" D550 and i returned and then i put more money and...now i have a GT50 (Similar to EU Version) and 9 inches more 60"...and i think i have to say thanks to you and him because the GT50 is in another level of PQ versus my returned set.

Thank you Larry smile.gif

PS: I think i'm the only "crazy" man that noticed the "pops" and returned a set in my country...
Edited by agkss - 5/5/13 at 10:24am
post #752 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I've worked on enough D and E series models to know the calibration problems that occur when the contrast is reduced and, for that reason, I'm leaning toward the ST this year. Although, the VT... ??

Well, Samsung has a lot riding on the expected software fix. I don't expect, and hope it's not, just a reduction in contrast. If so, I'll be returning mine. Personally, the picture on the ST didn't do much for me...if the ZT doesn't turn out to be anything special...it's back to square one for me mad.gif
post #753 of 3096
^You're basing your entire impression on these panels in viewing environments that are anything but ideal? If the F8500 doesn't pan out, you might as well hang it up.
post #754 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^You're basing your entire impression on these panels in viewing environments that are anything but ideal? If the F8500 doesn't pan out, you might as well hang it up.

Huh?
post #755 of 3096
You've already expressed dissatisfaction with Panasonic's line (I assume based on in-store viewing)...the ZT60 will not be worlds better than the VT60 (as much as I'd like it to be).
post #756 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

You've already expressed dissatisfaction with Panasonic's line (I assume based on in-store viewing)...the ZT60 will not be worlds better than the VT60 (as much as I'd like it to be).

I think what I bolded is a pretty safe bet, but hey anything could happen. The shootout will be a final tell.

In the end as always its going to come down to ones viewing environment and what they are looking to get out of the set.
post #757 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

You've already expressed dissatisfaction with Panasonic's line (I assume based on in-store viewing)...the ZT60 will not be worlds better than the VT60 (as much as I'd like it to be).

Well, we"ll know very soon...for now, I still have hope smile.gif
post #758 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Well since you are familliar with Calibrating the only drawback that I can see is the grayscale issues that Chad and DNice brought up. You'll probably be able to work through them more quickly however (then just the average DIY calibrator).....The ST and Vt look to be great sets though and I dont think you can really go wrong for either...

You have that backwards. If you do not use instrumentation, the grayscale problem is of no concern. The way it is now, all it means that any calibration with meters will require more iterations in order to compensate for the interaction of the controls. Anyone adjusting the set without meters will not even notice the behavior.

Larry
post #759 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

You have that backwards. If you do not use instrumentation, the grayscale problem is of no concern. The way it is now, all it means that any calibration with meters will require more iterations in order to compensate for the interaction of the controls. Anyone adjusting the set without meters will not even notice the behavior.

Larry

Correct, thats what I was meant in my reply (since you do calibrate). any other side effect from this grayscale "shift" would be meaningless at this point, which si why I didnt bring those issues up wink.gif

Everyone else who doesnt use a meter should be unaffected by what is being reported by DNice and ChadB.....
post #760 of 3096
Ph8te,

Yeah, rereading your post, we are saying the same thing. Those who calibrate for money (the pros) will need to spend more time to do their jobs. Otherwise, it is a non-issue.

Larry
post #761 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Ph8te,

Yeah, rereading your post, we are saying the same thing. Those who calibrate for money (the pros) will need to spend more time to do their jobs. Otherwise, it is a non-issue.

Larry
Why will the pros need to spend more again? I would say this would serve as more of a boon to them as a result of customers getting more frequent calibration touch-ups. wink.gif
post #762 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Why will the pros need to spend more again? I would say this would serve as more of a boon to them as a result of customers getting more frequent calibration touch-ups. wink.gif

Until there is a fix, it will take more time to do the calibration because of unpredictable interactions among the grayscale controls -- and this requires more iterations. However, once the set is properly calibrated there will be no need for more frequent touch-ups than any other manufacturer's product.

And it may cause just the oposite than a boon since more time means higher cost. Although the highly respected calibrators most probably will not raise their prices. They are too business savvy to do that.

Larry
post #763 of 3096
Ah, fair point on the time involved on one sitting (that is all I had considered). Those calibrators who are honest will mention the issue to the owner from the get-go. I wouldn't blame them for raising the price for such panels given they would need to make multiple trips to finalize the calibration, and it could also cause quite the logistics problem if the TV owner is somewhat isolated (i.e. there are no other xT60 owners in his/her vicinity).
post #764 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Ah, fair point on the time involved on one sitting (that is all I had considered). Those calibrators who are honest will mention the issue to the owner from the get-go. I wouldn't blame them for raising the price for such panels given they would need to make multiple trips to finalize the calibration, and it could also cause quite the logistics problem if the TV owner is somewhat isolated (i.e. there are no other xT60 owners in his/her vicinity).

No! Once the set is calibrated properly, there will be no reason for more frequent visits to "finalize the calibrations."

Larry
post #765 of 3096
I'm referring to grayscale shifts that occur in as little as hundreds (not thousands) of hours (assuming that occurs on the ZT60).
post #766 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

No! Once the set is calibrated properly, there will be no reason for more frequent visits to "finalize the calibrations."

Larry

Larry,

I think what vinnie is referring to is the thift D-Nice saw after inital calibration of the ST60 which required a recalibration. He has pushed out his normal "break in" recommendation from 100-150 to 300(+) hours becasue of this.
post #767 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Larry,

I think what vinnie is referring to is the thift D-Nice saw after inital calibration of the ST60 which required a recalibration. He has pushed out his normal "break in" recommendation from 100-150 to 300(+) hours becasue of this.


That's a totally different issue. The flaky calibration adjustment problem in the only one that I was addressing.

Larry
post #768 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

That's a totally different issue. The flaky calibration adjustment problem in the only one that I was addressing.

Larry

Larry, I understand this, I was just trying to explain what vinne meant when he replied with that comment. The wording may have been off, which is why I thought I would add to the explination\reply he had given.
post #769 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Larry, I understand this, I was just trying to explain what vinne meant when he replied with that comment. The wording may have been off, which is why I thought I would add to the explination\reply he had given.

I didn't intend my comment to be combative. Read it again. I simply stated my position -- no emotion involved.

Larry
post #770 of 3096
That's all I meant by finalize, even if the wording was considered off. wink.gif
post #771 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I didn't intend my comment to be combative. Read it again. I simply stated my position -- no emotion involved.

Larry

It wasnt taken that way smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That's all I meant by finalize, even if the wording was considered off. wink.gif

more frequent visits to finalize calibration. could ahve been "off" Afterall once the calibration is done its "done". The shift would happen an undetermined time after the calibrtion was finalized. Which is the point I think Larry was making as the two are not related (at least not as of yet)....

I did know what you were talking about though smile.gif
post #772 of 3096
ZT60 Review HDTV Test: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-txp60zt65b-201305062961.htm

I knew it...the black wasn't 0.001cd/m2...that's why i prefer reviews from David Mackenzie
post #773 of 3096
I have said this and David is just saying it in his review

"All of this means that the Panasonic ZT65/ZT60 has the deepest blacks out of any large-screen flat panel TV currently on the market, but not necessarily the highest contrast ratio once the peak white performance is brought into the equation. Both the Samsung PS64F8500 we recently reviewed, and the Pioneer KURO plasmas, are able to produce brighter peak whites. You really can’t go wrong with any of these TVs – they’re all first rate – but there will be viewers who favour Panasonic’s world-beating black level and sufficiently bright peak luminance, just as there will be users who prefer Samsung’s sufficiently dark blacks and exceptionally bright peak whites."
post #774 of 3096
VT60 for me now. Sorry for the off topic, i know is F8500 or ZT60...
post #775 of 3096
So Panasonic took some shortcuts to reach these deepest blacks...pfft.

0.00088 fL full-screen and 0.001 fL via ANSI.
post #776 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

So Panasonic took some shortcuts to reach these deepest blacks...pfft.

0.00088 fL full-screen and 0.001 fL via ANSI.

Personally Id still wait to hear what happen with the ZT at the shootout as we already have reported differences between what the reviewers are getting and the sets being calibrated in the NA market......
post #777 of 3096
Don't worry, eyes will be glued on their findings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

I have said this and David is just saying it in his review

"All of this means that the Panasonic ZT65/ZT60 has the deepest blacks out of any large-screen flat panel TV currently on the market, but not necessarily the highest contrast ratio once the peak white performance is brought into the equation. Both the Samsung PS64F8500 we recently reviewed, and the Pioneer KURO plasmas, are able to produce brighter peak whites. You really can’t go wrong with any of these TVs – they’re all first rate – but there will be viewers who favour Panasonic’s world-beating black level and sufficiently bright peak luminance, just as there will be users who prefer Samsung’s sufficiently dark blacks and exceptionally bright peak whites."

As an offset:
Quote:
We’ve analysed several outstanding HDTVs in our time, and that has especially been the case in the last few months, where we’ve been treated to an onslaught of plasma televisions that are all phenomenal in one way or another. You can’t go wrong with any of them, but weighed up subjectively, the strengths of the TXP60ZT65B arguably do make it the best HDTV we’ve ever tested.

Edited by vinnie97 - 5/6/13 at 1:12pm
post #778 of 3096
That's objectivity for me
Well done Vinnie smile.gif
post #779 of 3096
don't you want to tell david not to compare the panasonic zt60 to a out of production kuro
post #780 of 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by clipper57 View Post

don't you want to tell david not to compare the panasonic zt60 to a out of production kuro

Panasonic was touring with the ZT60 and using a Kuro for comparison. Since the Kuro is regarded as the previous reference model that has yet to be baten as far as many are concerned it serves purpose to why they continue to mention it in reviews.....
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