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S60 or S64 or ST60 or VT60 or maybe ZT60......oh yeah 60" or 65"???? - Page 2

post #31 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I know ho you feel!

on one hand this is a great year to buy a plasma, so many great choices. on the other hand it sucks, there's NEVER going to be a clear winner.

for me I started with ST60 vs VT60 vs ZT60. Samsung wasn't even on my radar based on last years results. truth be told I was just going to buy a clearance vt50 until I couldn't find one, and read the st60 pretty much matched its performance.

so obviously haven't seen the zt or heard anymore than anybody else here, and that's ones still in contention

I think I've dropped the ST from my list. oddly enough for the dumbest of reason initially(bad input lag), but I just got so used to the idea of the vt being measurably (if not noticeably) darker with better contrast.

VT is still in consideration, however, if i'm going to buy a panny, why not buy the best panny?


which now leaves me with the f8500 and zt60 as my too top choices, with the vt60 being more of a consolation, 'value' purchase if i'm not happy with the f8500 and don't want to wait for or spend so much on the zt.

my plan is, barring any crazy results from the shootout, to take home a f8500 when the 64's arrive(may 10th, but I think i'll wait until after the shootout). if I love it, i'll stop looking and be happy. if I don't, if for some reason it's not dark enough once I get it into my man cave, well then i'll have a much closer look at the vt/zt and maybe even bring the ST back into consideration

consensus seems to be that the f8500 will perform better under bright conditions and the panny's(all of them) will perform better in a dark room. I just wish my needs were that polarized...
What I do not understand is I have the ST60 and my room gets decenently bright during the day, I do have blinds on my windows but light still peaks through and not once have I ever said I wish my TV was brighter. As a matter of fact I had an LED in the same room and the ST60 handles reflections and does a better job of masking it then the LED did. Unless you have a room with only open windows and sun beaming in I do not know why people make such a big deal of a TV being as bright as the sun.

Also, with the F8500 if you stand around 4 ft or closer in front of the TV and look down onto it the picture totally dissapears. A BB rep actually pointed that out to me and I was kind of shocked to see it happen. I will give Samsung the edge in 1 thing, their smart portion of the TV beats all others hands down but I do not think most people really care about that and use it in their decision of which TV to buy.

I would take the TV that offers the best all around picture. Unless lighting conditions is the number one problem of your room, I would take the TV with the better blacks and contrast. Let the filter take care of any reflections you might have during the day. You do not need to compete with trying to be brighter then the sun.
post #32 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post


Also, with the F8500 if you stand around 4 ft or closer in front of the TV and look down onto it the picture totally dissapears. A BB rep actually pointed that out to me and I was kind of shocked to see it happen. I will give Samsung the edge in 1 thing, their smart portion of the TV beats all others hands down but I do not think most people really care about that and use it in their decision of which TV to buy.
that's what ruled the 8500 out for me. We have a large living room where the tv is going and it's open to the kitchen and den. The tv can be viewed from the other room but at angles
post #33 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

What I do not understand is I have the ST60 and my room gets decenently bright during the day, I do have blinds on my windows but light still peaks through and not once have I ever said I wish my TV was brighter. As a matter of fact I had an LED in the same room and the ST60 handles reflections and does a better job of masking it then the LED did. Unless you have a room with only open windows and sun beaming in I do not know why people make such a big deal of a TV being as bright as the sun.

Also, with the F8500 if you stand around 4 ft or closer in front of the TV and look down onto it the picture totally dissapears. A BB rep actually pointed that out to me and I was kind of shocked to see it happen. I will give Samsung the edge in 1 thing, their smart portion of the TV beats all others hands down but I do not think most people really care about that and use it in their decision of which TV to buy.

I would take the TV that offers the best all around picture. Unless lighting conditions is the number one problem of your room, I would take the TV with the better blacks and contrast. Let the filter take care of any reflections you might have during the day. You do not need to compete with trying to be brighter then the sun.

I hear ya, for years I've been anti-LCD for this reason. if plasma is bright enough, and the only advantage to LCD is it's brighter, then... what's the advantage?

having said that, sometimes it's also a matter of ignorance is bliss, and you simply don't know what you're missing until you see it. I have to admit, when I brought home a Samsung D6300 LED I was very impressed with the picture. the brightness did make the whole image pop a lot more. the key was not sacrificing any blacks while doing this. a bright LCD with mediocre blacks just looks like a tv with it's brightness turned up too much. but the f8500, and to lesser extents dimming LED sets, it really does up the contrast by being so bright.

I have this suspicion that if the zt60 and f8500 were side by side, uncalibrated, I would look at the f8500 as the better looking display, at least in anything other than batcave. but once calibrated, the 'specs' would require me to turn down the brightness on the f8500, and then the zt60, or st60 for that matter, would probably look as good or better(as good in bright room, better in dark).

so... do I follow the rules? or take advantage of the extra brightness? I mean, is there ANY other parameter on a tv that you can have too much of? I mean there's no limit for blacks. i'm just not sure if the 'reference' level of whites is based on what's possible, or what's desired.
post #34 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

that's what ruled the 8500 out for me. We have a large living room where the tv is going and it's open to the kitchen and den. The tv can be viewed from the other room but at angles

just fyi, horizontal angles are no problem. I wasn't going to crawl on the floor to check if looking up at the tv was an issue. but looking down at it definitely was. it won't be a concern in my space, with the tv mounted at eye level and the first row of seating about 12feet back(room is set up for projector).

it's a definitely trade off. in the showrooms most of the time the tv is placed out on the bright floor with the LED's and it honestly fits in quite well there. the store lighting is just about invisible. sunlight, or other light coming in from the side will still reflect like most others, but the overhead lighting doesn't wash out the picture at all. in very specific situations this makes the tv unbeatable. overall it's only a slight improvement, and I guess could be devastating if you plan on viewing from vertical angles greater than 30* off axis(number guestimated)

it really is like an LED and plasma had a baby and the f8500 was the result. on one hand you've kinda got the best of both worlds. deep blacks, great uniformity and motion, and you've also got a very bright and vivid picture. but it also comes with disadvantages from both. high power consumption, poor viewing angles(vertically anyway), buzzing, heat.

anyway, it stands out in the market, pretty unique list of pros and cons as of right now. i'm guessing this will be the future of plasma's, at least for Samsung. this set seems to be selling very well on the showrooms already.
post #35 of 96
I just got the S64. It was really an easy decision. At Costco, I picked up my 65" S64 with 5 year warranty for about $1584. Absolutely steal.

Pros

-I wanted a plasma.
-I put value over any other spec but I know I want a good picture.
-Budget was under $2000 (I ended up well under)
-I didn't want the mirror screen. Check!
-The bigger, the better.

Cons That Aren't Cons

-2 HDMI ports (Who doesn't have an AV receiver these days. I realize some don't, but I do... so non issue here)
-Lacking "smart" features (I have an Apple TV and PS3 to choose what kind of apps I want. The main ones are included on the TV anyway)
-The S series mirror screen (Costco model S64 has the AR coating. Awesome!)
-Lacking correct 24p movie motion mumbo jumbo (I don't notice anything MAJOR here as far as flicker and/or judder. Sweet.)
-No SD card slot (Less than 5% of people would ever use this I'm guessing? I wouldn't ever.)

This set is seriously awesome. Put on Star Trek briefly and was blown away. I'm now gonna be running slides for the next 100 hours to become even more impressed next week.
post #36 of 96
I think the only real downside to the s64 compared to st60 is calibration options.

the price I was quoted on an st60 was too stellar to even worry about anything below it. the ST60 is the 'worst' TV I will buy, and I have to say, that makes me pretty darn excited because that would already be the best TV I own. i'm more worried about underbuying and then 2yrs down the road wishing i'd spent a little bit more. i'm pretty sure I won't be all into the smart features for the same reason you mentioned, I have a HTPC connected anyway. but who knows, MAYBE there will be something I wish I had and didn't. and if plasmas really are dieing out, i'm not going to LED's, and I can't imagine OLED's will be anywhere close to a good value for 10 yrs. whatever I buy this year i'm buying for the long run, so I want to go all out
post #37 of 96
Thread Starter 
Thanks fierce, I'm going this weekend to check them out.
post #38 of 96
I don't think Canada has these yet, or if they'll ever get them. I really want to see one in person, damn it.
post #39 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubology Now View Post

I don't think Canada has these yet, or if they'll ever get them. I really want to see one in person, damn it.

i'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba. a couple stores have the f8500, one has the vt60 with the other getting it this month. the zt's will be 'on display' late may, but probably won't be for sale until anywhere from june until aug depending on the size.

the s60 and st60 are pretty much everywhere, haven't checked out Costco for the s64 though
post #40 of 96
Thread Starter 
Finally got to see the 60" VT and 64" 8500 yesterday (200 mile round trip) I thought I had my mind almost made up on Panasonic VT or ZT. Well that got changed by the F8500. Not so much by PQ but screen reflection. There is a huge difference between the two in this area and this is important to me because our living room has two windows and two doors with glass that glare on the tv. You can only see these reflections if you are setting on the couches which are off to the sides of the tv....not from the recliners which are directly in front of the tv. We do watch some tv in the day, mostly sports, so this is a conceren of mine. Not sure if the difference between the two had something to do with where they were in the Magnolia store or not. The Vt was on one end of the room and the 8500 was on the other end, they were facing each other. When the VT's screen darken some I could see the 8500's reflection very well but when viewing the 8500 I could just barely see the VT's reflection. This was the same for overhead lighting as well. I did go look at the ST out in the BB store and the reflections on it didn't seem as bad as the VT, maybe because it was so much brighter out there it just didn't show as much.

When I first starting watching the 8500 it seemed to be way to sharp for my taste. I located the remote and set it to "movie" and that seemed to help quite a bit. As far as colors and black levels they seemed to be equal to my eyes. The VT was in THX Cinema, never could find the remote but used the buttons on the side to check. The VT had the look I'm use too, we have a 50" panny plasma now. The sammy had a different look, more detailed I guess where the VT seemed softer. But this was in the store with basic settings.

I prefer the overall look of the 8500 with it's dull, thin bezel. A little disappointed in the VT's "all the way to edge" glass bezel. The black edge in the glass made the bezel look wider and then the chrome....not a fan. The 8500 had chrome on the side bezels but can't be seen from the front.....and no power lamp.

My biggest concern with the 8500 was off angle viewing. That's not a concern anymore. I could tell no difference between it and the VT when viewed from severe angles, just worse reflections on the VT. Now if I stood within 4' right in front of the 8500 looking down on it, the screen would start to darken at the bottom but who watches that way. I don't think it does this when looking up. They had a 60" mounted on the wall, so I squatted down and looked up at it and didn't notice any darkening.

I have pics showing the reflections on my iphone I will try and get on here later.

So I will wait for the shootout and the firmware update for the 8500 to make a decision.
post #41 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I think the only real downside to the s64 compared to st60 is calibration options.

the price I was quoted on an st60 was too stellar to even worry about anything below it. the ST60 is the 'worst' TV I will buy, and I have to say, that makes me pretty darn excited because that would already be the best TV I own. i'm more worried about underbuying and then 2yrs down the road wishing i'd spent a little bit more. i'm pretty sure I won't be all into the smart features for the same reason you mentioned, I have a HTPC connected anyway. but who knows, MAYBE there will be something I wish I had and didn't. and if plasmas really are dieing out, i'm not going to LED's, and I can't imagine OLED's will be anywhere close to a good value for 10 yrs. whatever I buy this year i'm buying for the long run, so I want to go all out

I'm in Winnipeg. where did you get a quote from? which model were you quoted on and how much was it? PM me if you want.
post #42 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post



I'm in Winnipeg. where did you get a quote from? which model were you quoted on and how much was it? PM me if you want.

sorry, in order to preserve my friendship, and friend's employment, I've been sworn to secrecy on the prices. probably not a big deal, but i'm not going to risk it. you can always negotiate

I can tell you that visions has the f8500, st60, and should be getting the vt60 very soon, zt60 could be as late as august. Advance has all 3 on display and will be getting the ZT60 maybe this month(that's what they told me when I asked). I don't believe BB or FS have any of these models yet
post #43 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post



I can tell you that visions has the f8500, st60, and should be getting the vt60 very soon, zt60 could be as late as august. Advance has all 3 on display and will be getting the ZT60 maybe this month(that's what they told me when I asked). I don't believe BB or FS have any of these models yet

BB has had the ST for about a month now.
post #44 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

BB has had the ST for about a month now.

you're right, that was the one I did see. I already had it 'crossed off' by the time I got over there so forgot. I actually went in to BB just to buy a new tv stand and took a quick peak for any new models. I had no intention of buying from them, but I wanted to check if they had the vt in a brighter area. so far i'm seen the f8500 in a bright room, and semi dark room, and the st and vt in a semi dark rooms. so far they've all looked good in those areas. would like to see the vt in a bright room 'just in case' it helps my decision.
post #45 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

i'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba. a couple stores have the f8500, one has the vt60 with the other getting it this month. the zt's will be 'on display' late may, but probably won't be for sale until anywhere from june until aug depending on the size.

the s60 and st60 are pretty much everywhere, haven't checked out Costco for the s64 though
Should've been more specific in that post - was looking specifically for the S64. Still nowhere to be found!
post #46 of 96
I don't know if we are even going to get the s64 north of the border. At my Costco , they only had a UT50. It doesn't help me though as I am in the market for a 55". I see an ST in my future. smile.gif
post #47 of 96
That's a damned shame. Guess I could hold off on buying a TV for a bit, since I'm not seeing good options at 60" and up on the LCD front (everything is either too slow, too ugly, or too expensive).
post #48 of 96
what's the bump in price from S64 to ST60? it's still one heck of a deal imo. if the S64's weren't heard of, the st60 would be a no-brainer imo.
post #49 of 96
I too have been debating between the VT50 & the ST60. The VT50's are hard to find right now, so I decided on the ST60 and just go bigger given the cheaper price. However, I am very much interested in having strong picture quality controls without having to go into the Service Menu. That puts me now between the VT60 55" or $2200 or the ST60 60" for $1500. I dont need the biggest TV, but am more interested in having a nice size with great color reproduction.

I am flip-flopping back and on a daily basis!
post #50 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfrazer77 View Post

I too have been debating between the VT50 & the ST60. The VT50's are hard to find right now, so I decided on the ST60 and just go bigger given the cheaper price. However, I am very much interested in having strong picture quality controls without having to go into the Service Menu. That puts me now between the VT60 55" or $2200 or the ST60 60" for $1500. I dont need the biggest TV, but am more interested in having a nice size with great color reproduction.

I am flip-flopping back and on a daily basis!
If your only flipping on a daily basis.....your doing good! smile.gif
post #51 of 96
i too am down to the st60 and vt60 and have not seen either yet in person. i want a 60" for our basement theater/sports room. i will use 3d some, but not a whole lot. i want the one that gives me the best image for the money. they are 850 bucks apart at abes of maine, so is the picture quality of the VT worth the extra 850? ive read that the screen reflection is less of a problem with the vt. is this true? and, from what i can tell, no real smart tv additional functions outside of skype cam and touch remote.
anyone who has some advice, it would be much appreciated!!!!!
post #52 of 96
i found it near impossible to see the difference between ST60 and VT60 in store. but neither was 'calibrated' and they weren't side by side either.

it seems like there's an advantage to the VT60, but it's slight. value goes to ST60, but overall the VT60 wins. it's a stupid hard decision to make, so i went with the f8500... haha
post #53 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by lohajat112 View Post

i too am down to the st60 and vt60 and have not seen either yet in person. i want a 60" for our basement theater/sports room. i will use 3d some, but not a whole lot. i want the one that gives me the best image for the money. they are 850 bucks apart at abes of maine, so is the picture quality of the VT worth the extra 850? ive read that the screen reflection is less of a problem with the vt. is this true? and, from what i can tell, no real smart tv additional functions outside of skype cam and touch remote.
anyone who has some advice, it would be much appreciated!!!!!

Best image for the money would be the ST60 its the "value" or bang for the buck deal this year.....The VT is better, but the difference maay not be "worth" it to some......
post #54 of 96
I also had a difficult time deciding. I viewed the ST and the VT - not in the same location so could not really "see" a notiicable difference.eek.gif


Both were spectacular to me - so I ordered the P65VT60 based on the following:

ST
Panel: NeoPlasma
Panel Drive: 2500 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 12,288 equivalent
DCI 98% Color Space: No
Contrast: 1:5,500,000
Filter: Infinite Black Pro
Hexa-processing Engine: No
THX Mode: No


VT
Panel: NeoPlasma black 3000
Panel Drive: 3000 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 30,720 gradation steps
DCI 98% Color Space: Yes
Contrast: 1:6,000,000
Filter: Infinite Black Ultra
Hexa-processing Engine: Yes
THX Mode: Yes


I also viewed the Samsyng F8500 in the same room as the VT and it was just too bright for my tastes - another very beautiful set though.

I also agree that the ST is the best "value" choice; however, I keep my gear for a long time and wanted the best quality I could afford.

Hope this helps and good luck making your decision!smile.gif
post #55 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

I also had a difficult time deciding. I viewed the ST and the VT - not in the same location so could not really "see" a notiicable difference.eek.gif


Both were spectacular to me - so I ordered the P65VT60 based on the following:

ST
Panel: NeoPlasma
Panel Drive: 2500 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 12,288 equivalent
DCI 98% Color Space: No
Contrast: 1:5,500,000
Filter: Infinite Black Pro
Hexa-processing Engine: No
THX Mode: No


VT
Panel: NeoPlasma black 3000
Panel Drive: 3000 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 30,720 gradation steps
DCI 98% Color Space: Yes
Contrast: 1:6,000,000
Filter: Infinite Black Ultra
Hexa-processing Engine: Yes
THX Mode: Yes


I also viewed the Samsyng F8500 in the same room as the VT and it was just too bright for my tastes - another very beautiful set though.

I also agree that the ST is the best "value" choice; however, I keep my gear for a long time and wanted the best quality I could afford.

Hope this helps and good luck making your decision!smile.gif
Nice choice Saril, congratulations. I have narrowed it down to the top 3 dogs, VT, ZT or 8500. Can't wait for the shoot out!
post #56 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

I also had a difficult time deciding. I viewed the ST and the VT - not in the same location so could not really "see" a notiicable difference.eek.gif


Both were spectacular to me - so I ordered the P65VT60 based on the following:

ST
Panel: NeoPlasma
Panel Drive: 2500 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 12,288 equivalent
DCI 98% Color Space: No
Contrast: 1:5,500,000
Filter: Infinite Black Pro
Hexa-processing Engine: No
THX Mode: No


VT
Panel: NeoPlasma black 3000
Panel Drive: 3000 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 30,720 gradation steps
DCI 98% Color Space: Yes
Contrast: 1:6,000,000
Filter: Infinite Black Ultra
Hexa-processing Engine: Yes
THX Mode: Yes


I also viewed the Samsyng F8500 in the same room as the VT and it was just too bright for my tastes - another very beautiful set though.

I also agree that the ST is the best "value" choice; however, I keep my gear for a long time and wanted the best quality I could afford.

Hope this helps and good luck making your decision!smile.gif

How do you like it so far?
Im looking to purchase VT60 after returning the S60 (65") but panasonic doesnt offer my company discount (15%) on the VT60, kinda sucks.
post #57 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

I also had a difficult time deciding. I viewed the ST and the VT - not in the same location so could not really "see" a notiicable difference.eek.gif


Both were spectacular to me - so I ordered the P65VT60 based on the following:

ST
Panel: NeoPlasma
Panel Drive: 2500 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 12,288 equivalent
DCI 98% Color Space: No
Contrast: 1:5,500,000
Filter: Infinite Black Pro
Hexa-processing Engine: No
THX Mode: No


VT
Panel: NeoPlasma black 3000
Panel Drive: 3000 Focused Field Drive
Shades of Gradation: 30,720 gradation steps
DCI 98% Color Space: Yes
Contrast: 1:6,000,000
Filter: Infinite Black Ultra
Hexa-processing Engine: Yes
THX Mode: Yes


I also viewed the Samsyng F8500 in the same room as the VT and it was just too bright for my tastes - another very beautiful set though.

I also agree that the ST is the best "value" choice; however, I keep my gear for a long time and wanted the best quality I could afford.

Hope this helps and good luck making your decision!smile.gif

not to be an arse, but did you try turning the backlight down on the Samsung? I know it sounds weird, take the TV that's only apparent advantage is brightness and turn down the brightness until it's not any brighter, but when I did that, I found it very tough to pick my favourite between the f8500 and vt. they were very close in blacks, shadow detail, etc. the f8500 was about 500bux cheaper than the vt60 so I went with the Samsung. who knows what i'll do with the tv 5-10yrs from now when OLED makes sense. maybe i'll end up putting it in the living room or someplace bright and then I can make use of the extra backlight...

I just don't understand not buying a tv because it's 'too bright' when you can easily calibrate that. I understand not paying extra for it, but it's actually cheaper!

as for your comparison of st and vt, those were exactly the things I looked at too(although I thought the gradation was closer, I might have the numbers from the VT50 mixed up with the st60 though). it was something I could not see in the store, but I was worried I would see it at home. most of that stuff wasn't important to me, but the steps of gradation is something that drives me nuts. I hate that 'digital' look when smooth gradations appear stepped. but I don't know how much is enough, apparently the 12000 of the st still does the trick.
post #58 of 96
"How do you like it so far? Im looking to purchase VT60 after returning the S60 (65") but panasonic doesnt offer my company discount (15%) on the VT60, kinda sucks."

"I just don't understand not buying a tv because it's 'too bright' when you can easily calibrate that. I understand not paying extra for it, but it's actually cheaper!"


I have not received mine yet. Should be here in 2-3 weeks. Of course, when I do get it, I'm sure I will be absolutely blown away. I was already very impressed with the ST let alone the VT.

On the Samsung F8500 (PN64F8500AFXZA), the list was $3700, on sale was $3400. It could be less now. I ordered the P65VT60 for less than $3200. That was a major deciding factor for me. I was at the limits of my budget and the Samsung would have simply put me over. My wallet was siding with the ST, my intuition sided with the VT/F8500. I ordered the VT solely on price and about an hours worth of viewing.

As far as the calibration for being too bright, I would think the store would take of that. I had never seen one of these before and was relying on the store selling the product to ensure it was calibrated - but a good point.

Again, any of these sets (ST, VT, F8500) is going to be a top tier performer IMO. If you have a bright room, go with the F8500, all other considerations being equal.

Good luck!smile.gif
post #59 of 96
Wow Saril you are a patient man! I had to wait four days and I was going crazy thinking about it until it finally came in! You will love it once you get it. The Cnet settings look really good on my 65"". I too got a killer price and it was a few hundred cheaper than the F8500. Samsung locks the lowest price at some point and they couldn't discount it more than the VT, which wasn't even in stock yet. I could care less about brightness as I always dial it down. I have a bedroom LCD that is almost off I have it set so low. The VT gets eye bleeding bright for me using a tweaked Cinema setting with a contrast setting of 80. White is definitely white on mine, not gray at all. Good luck with yours and hopefully you get it sooner than later!
post #60 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

"How do you like it so far? Im looking to purchase VT60 after returning the S60 (65") but panasonic doesnt offer my company discount (15%) on the VT60, kinda sucks."

"I just don't understand not buying a tv because it's 'too bright' when you can easily calibrate that. I understand not paying extra for it, but it's actually cheaper!"


I have not received mine yet. Should be here in 2-3 weeks. Of course, when I do get it, I'm sure I will be absolutely blown away. I was already very impressed with the ST let alone the VT.

On the Samsung F8500 (PN64F8500AFXZA), the list was $3700, on sale was $3400. It could be less now. I ordered the P65VT60 for less than $3200. That was a major deciding factor for me. I was at the limits of my budget and the Samsung would have simply put me over. My wallet was siding with the ST, my intuition sided with the VT/F8500. I ordered the VT solely on price and about an hours worth of viewing.

As far as the calibration for being too bright, I would think the store would take of that. I had never seen one of these before and was relying on the store selling the product to ensure it was calibrated - but a good point.

Again, any of these sets (ST, VT, F8500) is going to be a top tier performer IMO. If you have a bright room, go with the F8500, all other considerations being equal.

Good luck!smile.gif

Most stores never calibrate thier sets and leave them at either store or manufacture pre determined defaults.....These can often get changed when people look at them so just "trusting" the store is not the way to go. For isntance I found the VT60 to be very dull looking when 1st viewed, it wwasnt until I had a chance to adjsut the settings that I saw what the set could possibly be capable of....

congrats on your new TV smile.gif you cant go wrong with any of the TVs this year...
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