or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Given 5K to spend on a 7.1 dedicated theater room.. how would you do it?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Given 5K to spend on a 7.1 dedicated theater room.. how would you do it? - Page 2

post #31 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

They can not hit THX Reference levels.

Yeah, but I think THX levels are for the hearing-impaired. biggrin.gif

Yesterday I was listening very loudly to The Dark Knight Rises Ultimate Score Collection and the max SPL I got was 97.5 dBC (slow response). Any louder than that and I would have to cover my hears to prevent pain. eek.gif

On the A-weighted scale (which cuts out bass below 500Hz), I got a max of 82.5 dBA. So the 97.5 dBC was for both speakers + subs and the 82.5 dBA was mainly just for the speakers.

I can't imagine 105 dBA for EACH speaker (instead of 82.5 dBA for ALL speakers) & 115 dBC (instead of 97.5 dBC) for subs.

So how many people actually listen to THX levels?
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 4/24/13 at 6:00am
post #32 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

For speakers, get the Made-in-France Focal 814V towers x 6 for $2550 and CC814V x 1 for $350 Plus $165 S/H is around $3K (MSRP $6,000).

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It would be a shame to hide such nice looking speakers behind a screen.

It would be a worse shame to only get 6 instead of 7.

This is going behind an AT screen - three matching towers (or big bookshelves) across the front, all with tweeters at ear level, is the only thing to consider cool.gif
post #33 of 112
Thread Starter 
OP here: Wow what an overload of information! I'll try my best here, but I'm a total noob when it comes to some of these terms ie. SPL, MACC, etc. (i suppose I should look them up).

I had already been looking at the possibility of purchasing JTRs. The single 8's in particular I thought were some kind of a specialized subwoofer due to the boxy shape and lack of a tweeter. Just goes to show what I know.

The concerns that some of you express about overpowering the room are shared by me as well. I don't mind things being a little loud, but on my Denon 1913 (used upstairs with my plasma setup) I prefer the volume to be between 70-72 (not sure what that translates to in dBs) Our upstairs room also 21 x 15, but the tv/speakers are on the 21 ft wall and we sit about 3ft away from the screen.

I've heard good things about the Onkyo 818 and I used to have an Integra receiver back in the day, so the Onkyo is definitely an option. However, part of the reason I was drawn the to Emotive Pre-Amp / Amp combo was that I don't really care for any of the video scaling options included with these receivers. They are all set to OFF with my Denon upstairs as anything I turn on gives an unwanted soap opera affect. I figure I'll just let the projector do it's thing and if I need to add anything later it will likely be a Lumagen mini 3D. Also, I don't need video switching or anything else because this receiver will be used 100% for the home theater. The home theater will play nothing buy BR's because streaming just doesn't cut it for me.

The Oppo is not considered part of the 7.1 setup. For those saying 5K is cutting it close...how much more would I need to increase the budget in order to put a really good sound system in the room? 6K?

Seems like the two schools of thought here are to go big with the L/C/Rs -- and then maybe cut back on the surrounds as they don't account for a large part of the sound. Decent subs is a must no matter what, but I can't imagine spending the bulk of the budget on subs and go lesser on the mains.

The room is already pre-wired with 12AWG throughout.
post #34 of 112
Another option is the Klipsch THX Ultra2 speaker set. Yes, MSRP seems a little expensive. But if you are interested, a good honest authorized dealer can get you a fantastic price. Send me a PM is you are interested.

"The KL-650-THX's listening-window response measures +1.00/–0.87 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 56 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 49 Hz. "

"The relative flatness of the response curves (particularly with the KL-650 & KL-525s) underscores the tonally balanced & sonically accurate presentation of this very impressive system. It's easy to see how the musicalness (ability to accurately render the timbre of individual instruments) of the system is as outstanding as it is. The THX Ultra2 is simply amazing in terms of sheer musicalness, its ability to deliver exceptional dynamics and clean, unadulterated detail. It's a system that proves once and for all you can bring, in an authentic way, the big-screen cinema sound experience to your home. It will again and again surprise you in ways that define the exceptional listening experience. The Klipsch Ultra2 THX 7.1 home theater system gives the consumer the opportunity to reap the benefits of a product built on 60 years of engineering expertise and technological refinement all in a package that can fit into your home theater. With the THX Ultra2, Klipsch have managed to carry forward decades of home & professional cinema sound experience and bundle it all into one brilliantly executed system. If you're ready to move up to a THX Ultra2 system and plan on making the rounds of all your local audio salons with audition list in hand, put this system at the top of that list. You'll save yourself an awful lot of audition time."

http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-thx-ultra2-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/satellite/klipsch-thx-ultra2/page-5
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 4/24/13 at 11:06am
post #35 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I don't agree. Since the surrounds have a very light burden compared to the fronts, yes, he could still blast them, as long as the surrounds aren't terrible. I don't think surrounds get used even a tenth as much as the front stage.

This used to be true, but I do not think that is the way things have been going. The surrounds now seem to get used much moreso now days than they did just 10 years ago.

I have heard off screen dialog come from surrounds, musical score, and of course it gets used quite a bit in action movies.
Quote:
I agree with this to a point. However, I certainly wouldn't say subs are more important than front stage speakers; the front stage is the heart of the system.

I would say subs are more important than the frontstage. As long as the front stage speakers are a decent speaker for the job, spending extra money on them yields diminishing returns. Especially if the only reason why you are doing it is because you want to play at volumes higher than reference level. Subs, on the other hand, cost quite a bit for some quality ones. They also bring a lot to the movie, especially if it is an action movie.

In other words, if you are playing a movie at loud, but reasonable levels, I doubt the difference between speakers like the 340se and the 228HT would be as noticeable as the difference between a sub like the FV15HP and something lesser. If he wanted over reference level listening, sure JTR is the way to go, but he never said that.

Quote:
As for the speakers, I think OP would be a lot less likely to feel any need to upgrade beyond something like the JTR speakers. But if you compromised there and went with something like Ascend CMT340s and wanted to upgrade after that, now you are stuck with some extra speakers. Not only that, but if you insist on the front stage being voiced the same as the surrounds, now you are stuck with a lot of extra speakers. On the OP's budget, either the subs get compromised or the speakers do, and I think it makes a lot more sense to compromise on the subs for now, both for ease of upgradability and to reduce loss on investment.

I disagree. If he wanted to upgrade the 340se at some point, it would not be that hard. Especially, if he does not care to keep the surrounds voiced the same (which is what he would have to agree with if he went with JTR now, as his budget does not even come close to allowing a full JTR setup). He could just keep the 170se as surrounds and only upgrade the 3 fronts, if he really wanted to. Your logic that he would have to later replace all the speakers does not make sense, because if he went with JTR now, he would already have to agree that matching surrounds is not necessary. If he did believe they are necessary, then he would be buying non-matching surrounds to go with the JTRs, and then he would buy buying something that he would HAVE to upgrade later to fix that.

I am not saying the 340se is a better speaker than a JTR speaker. But it makes a hell of a lot more sense considering what the OP wants to do and his budget. I maxed his budget out using $550 a pair and $350 a pair speakers in a 7.2 setup. You are suggesting he buy $1,000 EACH speakers - that just is not gong to happen on his budget; not without major concessions elsewhere. And the only real reason to do it is to play at higher than reference levels. If he had double the budget I would say go for it, but on $5,000 it just does not make sense.
post #36 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post


The concerns that some of you express about overpowering the room are shared by me as well. I don't mind things being a little loud, but on my Denon 1913 (used upstairs with my plasma setup) I prefer the volume to be between 70-72 (not sure what that translates to in dBs) Our upstairs room also 21 x 15, but the tv/speakers are on the 21 ft wall and we sit about 3ft away from the screen.

I cannot say for certain without knowing what speakers you have. But I can pretty confidently say you are listening to levels no where even close to reference level. In fact, that Denon 1913 I think maxes out at 70 watts (something like that). On an average speaker (lets say 88db 1w/m), I do not think it is even capable of powering that speaker to reference levels (at a listening position of 13 feet). (I assume you meant 13 feet away, not 3 feet).

In other words, the reference levels they are talking about are likely louder than you can turn up your Denon 1913 to full blast. With that said though, depending on your speakers if you tried they they might sound harsh and unpleasant/painful to listen to. On a speaker that is capable of getting to those levels without distortion, it won't sound terrible like that, it maintains its composure and just gets louder and louder. Still, it sounds like you do not listen even close to reference levels. The Ascends are likely capable of playing louder than you would ever want it to.
Quote:
I've heard good things about the Onkyo 818 and I used to have an Integra receiver back in the day, so the Onkyo is definitely an option. However, part of the reason I was drawn the to Emotive Pre-Amp / Amp combo was that I don't really care for any of the video scaling options included with these receivers. They are all set to OFF with my Denon upstairs as anything I turn on gives an unwanted soap opera affect. I figure I'll just let the projector do it's thing and if I need to add anything later it will likely be a Lumagen mini 3D. Also, I don't need video switching or anything else because this receiver will be used 100% for the home theater. The home theater will play nothing buy BR's because streaming just doesn't cut it for me.

Personally I would stick with an AVR with pre-outs. It seems counter intuitiuve, but you actually save money by going with an AVR with pre-outs over a separate prepro (even though you are getting an amp in the AVR and not in the prepro). The Onkyo 818, Pioneer 1522k, Marantz 5007, Denon 3313ci, etc. are all good suggestions, imo. You will just have to look into each of them to see which features match your needs the most. IF you really want to go with the Emotiva, go for it. I am sure it is good. It is just lacking a lot of features the AVRs listed have, and it is the same price as them, and you still would have to buy an amp. But if you really want to have true separates (rather than using an AVR with pre-outs and a separate amp), then that Emotiva is a nice way to go.
post #37 of 112
Interesting thread with some good points made by all. I agree with ShadyJ in theory, for a 100% movie room with the front three behind a screen, get the ugly high efficiency JTR type speakers. I have never heard them, but I am just basing that on such glowing user reviews from many GTGs, especially for HT application. But, unfortunately, that might not be possible on a strict 5K budget, because you would not have enough left over for everything else.

If you get 3x JTR single8, 4x Hsu HB-1, and a Rhythmik FV15HP, that is almost exactly $5,000. So, if you could stretch and add anAVR on top(definitely one with preouts) then you will probably be over budget by $6-800 or so. Plus, add in the speaker clamps for the surrounds, etc, maybe end up going $1,000-1,200 over budget. That would be a killer room. If you have to stick to the budget, I would go with the Ascends up front rather than the JTRs and a weak sub or crappy AVR.
post #38 of 112
Having heard JTR speakers myself,( I am a believer smile.gif It is not about just driving your speakers to THX reference level (although it is nice to know you can) it is about how clear and effortless these speakers sound when being driven. Folks, go read through the recent Iowa get together thread and others like it. For home theater there is a reason why most people have JTR and Seaton speakers at the top of their list when it comes to home theater sound (along with speakers such Klipsch THX Ultra, CHT Sho, Seos, JBL, etc).

Hence the reason why I mentioned JTR as a potential option and also the SEOS waveguide option. They are well suited for home theater.

For surrounds, I don't think you need JTR surrounds to match. I would talk to Jeff at JTR about that, there are some affordable Klipsch bookshelves out there but I think there are lots of options here.

As for subs, I totally agree that a subwoofer is important. But if the OP buys the JTR 8's as mains and then spends accordingly, he will have over $1K for a sub. Buy one now and add another later. In his size room a single VTF-15H or FV-15HP,. or XV-30 could be more than enough.

Go with 5.1 for now and put more money into your sub/s and then add the rear surrounds later. How many movies actually have a dynamic 7 channel mix?
post #39 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post


For home theater there is a reason why most people have JTR and Seaton speakers at the top of their list when it comes to home theater sound (along with speakers such Klipsch THX Ultra, CHT Sho, Seos, JBL, etc).

It's more like "SOME people", not MOST people.

MOST people DON'T use JTR, Seaton, or other high efficiency speakers.

And we need to define "people" as well. biggrin.gif

Most "audiophiles" have Revel, KEF, B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, etc, at the top of their list for home theater & music.

I will probably get a pair of Klipsch KL-650-THX Ultra2 speakers , but I am in the minority along with people owning HE speakers.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 4/24/13 at 10:30am
post #40 of 112
I would go with 7 DIY Seos speakers, a pair of XV15's subs, an XT32 Audessey receiver, an Oppo player. This system should rock.
post #41 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It's more like "SOME people", not MOST people.

MOST people DON'T use JTR, Seaton, or other high efficiency speakers.

And we need to define "people" as well. biggrin.gif

Most "audiophiles" have Revel, KEF, B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, etc, at the top of their list for home theater & music.

I will probably get a pair of Klipsch KL-650-THX Ultra2 speakers , but I am in the minority along with people owning HE speakers.

I was referring to people at the GTG meetings. You are free to read through the threads and look at the score cards and reviews wink.gif

I know what my next speakers will be biggrin.gif
post #42 of 112
I would do what most people do and spend $4,500 on an avr and $500 on 7.1 speakers. Then I'd think I have the best system in the world.
post #43 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodnerb View Post

I would do what most people do and spend $4,500 on an avr and $500 on 7.1 speakers. Then I'd think I have the best system in the world.

Haha..

Or.. $3000 for a receiver, $1500 for cables and power conditioners, and $500 for speakers.
post #44 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I was referring to people at the GTG meetings. You are free to read through the threads and look at the score cards and reviews wink.gif

You mean a FEW USER OPINIONS ?

Hardly conclusive.

I'll pass.

GTG are nothing more than shindigs. biggrin.gif
post #45 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

You mean a FEW USER OPINIONS ?

Hardly conclusive.

I'll pass.

GTG are nothing more than shindigs. biggrin.gif

No worries. That is why I listen to the speakers for myself before I make recommendations. For me, I would pick a JTR setup for 100% home theater anyday vs "audiophile" speakers like B&W, Revel, etc.

Different strokes for different folks.
post #46 of 112
I do not want to hi-jack his topic but I'm getting my theater built as well and I'm going with a suggested speaker setup (Monitor Audio). Any reason no one has mentioned these to him? Under his budget?
post #47 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad711 View Post

I do not want to hi-jack his topic but I'm getting my theater built as well and I'm going with a suggested speaker setup (Monitor Audio). Any reason no one has mentioned these to him? Under his budget?

Which MA speakers? What is your other equipment?
post #48 of 112
I don't want to hi-jack so I made another topic with my questions but since you asked here is my equipment (or equipment I plan on getting soon).

Pioneer SC-1222-K
Outlaw LFM-1 EX
Sharp XV-Z30000
Monitor Audio - Silver RX - Center
Monitor Audio - Silver RX-1 (L,R)
Monitor Audio - Bronze BX FX (for rear and side)
post #49 of 112
Thread Starter 
I'm going to get in touch with a JTR rep about the Single8's. I've had the JTRs on my radar for quite a while, but I didn't think a speaker like the single8 would be better than a tower speaker. Mainly the lack of a tweeter in the JTR is what actually led me to believe the single8 was sub.

So i'm correct in assuming the JTR single 8's will work without issue paired with an Onkyo 818?

I've only begun looking at DIY speakers and I would be all for picking up DIY Seos... I'm not sure what the components cost for Seos, but if its not much more for the JTRs I'd rather go with them and avoid the hassle. The last thing I build was a pac-man pencil holder in highschool shop class.

Does it make sense to even go with JTRs if I'm not blasting it out at referrence level? I've never even heard how loud referrence level is, so not sure what I'm missing or if I'm missing anything at all. Like I said, most of the time we're in the low to mid 70's on my Denon 1913.

So assuming I stick with the JTR single8's and Onkyo 818... Is there any other recommended option for surrounds and sub? We'll be sitting roughly 5-6 feet from each wall where the surrounds will be mounted.

I'm amazed at the outpouring of information and assistance from everyone. I can't thank you enough,.. but thanks again!!

Phil
post #50 of 112
FWIW, if the OP is willing to put together a speaker kit, those SEOS kits seem like a great option.

I have not heard them myself, but everyone says great things about them.

I still think the JTR products are too much for his price budget. But those SEOS are definitely within his budget, and I would wager outperform the Ascends (again I do not know for sure).
post #51 of 112
As a broad response to some of the discussion above, there is a big difference between heavy duty cinema speakers and conventional speakers. Go to a THX certified Imax or Omnimax theater, that is the kind of sound JTR or Pi or SEOS is going for: a big, effortless wall of sound. These theaters are calibrated for THX Reference levels, this isn't that extreme SPLs really, what is extreme is the lack of distortion at those volume levels. If you try to push normal speakers to those volume levels, if they can even make it there, they will sound a lot worse because they simply can not hit 100+ dB peaks cleanly.
post #52 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post

I'm going to get in touch with a JTR rep about the Single8's. I've had the JTRs on my radar for quite a while, but I didn't think a speaker like the single8 would be better than a tower speaker. Mainly the lack of a tweeter in the JTR is what actually led me to believe the single8 was sub.

So i'm correct in assuming the JTR single 8's will work without issue paired with an Onkyo 818?

I've only begun looking at DIY speakers and I would be all for picking up DIY Seos... I'm not sure what the components cost for Seos, but if its not much more for the JTRs I'd rather go with them and avoid the hassle. The last thing I build was a pac-man pencil holder in highschool shop class.

Does it make sense to even go with JTRs if I'm not blasting it out at referrence level? I've never even heard how loud referrence level is, so not sure what I'm missing or if I'm missing anything at all. Like I said, most of the time we're in the low to mid 70's on my Denon 1913.

So assuming I stick with the JTR single8's and Onkyo 818... Is there any other recommended option for surrounds and sub? We'll be sitting roughly 5-6 feet from each wall where the surrounds will be mounted.

I'm amazed at the outpouring of information and assistance from everyone. I can't thank you enough,.. but thanks again!!

Phil

I think you have a great plan of attack. The SEOS kits are about half the price depending on what you go with. Obviously we are talking DIY here, so you would want to reach out to the community if you have questions.

One thing to consider. Since you are in Illinois and so is JTR, perhaps you can demo the speakers somewhere first? And I would say that for any speaker you plan on buying if possible. Lots of people here recommend only what they have heard to owned them-self, and as you can tell in this thread, audio is such a personal thing. I would hate to tell you to spend a big pile of your $5K budget on something you have never heard yourself. In other words, try to listen to the JTR speakers and then visit some local audio shops and listen to other options and make the decision that is best for you and your budget.

Per your budget, I would focus in this order:
Mains
Subs(s)
Receiver
Surrounds

If it means getting a lesser receiver to focus on your mains and sub, I would recommend it unless you buy something like less efficient 4ohm speakers that need lots of power to drive. I also would not sacrifice my decision on my mains and subwoofer choice just to get 4 surround speakers for a 7 speaker setup. Most content is 5.1. You can always wire for 7.1 and then buy two more speakers down the road and put that money towards your mains and sub budget.

Just my opinion.
post #53 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad711 View Post

I don't want to hi-jack so I made another topic with my questions but since you asked here is my equipment (or equipment I plan on getting soon).

Pioneer SC-1222-K
Outlaw LFM-1 EX
Sharp XV-Z30000
Monitor Audio - Silver RX - Center
Monitor Audio - Silver RX-1 (L,R)
Monitor Audio - Bronze BX FX (for rear and side)

Not knowing more info like room size and listening preferences, it is hard to make a judgement, plus, I agree, let's not hijack the OPs thread too much. The being said, all I would comment on is that, unless you have a small room, you might consider going up to the RX-2 for the main speakers. I seems like those are better suited for L/R duty than the smaller RX-1s. Also, you mentioned BXFX for the rears AND sides, so I assume that means a 7.1 system. You could potentially save money by getting the cheaper monopole BX speakers, the BX1 or BX2, since you probably don't need dipole surrounds if to have both rear and sides. MA are supposed to be very nice speakers, so I have nothing's bad to say about them.

For the OP' the nice finish on the MAs is kinda wasted behind a screen.
post #54 of 112
Thread Starter 
Can someone please post a link to the SEOS speakers everyone is talking about?

What is the degree of difficulty for assembling these?
post #55 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post

Can someone please post a link to the SEOS speakers everyone is talking about?
Go to the DIY section.
post #56 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post

Can someone please post a link to the SEOS speakers everyone is talking about?

What is the degree of difficulty for assembling these?

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits.html

Like Bill said, the DIY subforum has tons of info as well as the forum on the above website.
post #57 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It's more like "SOME people", not MOST people.

MOST people DON'T use JTR, Seaton, or other high efficiency speakers.

And we need to define "people" as well. biggrin.gif

Most "audiophiles" have Revel, KEF, B&W, Focal, Dynaudio, etc, at the top of their list for home theater & music.

I will probably get a pair of Klipsch KL-650-THX Ultra2 speakers , but I am in the minority along with people owning HE speakers.

How about this, "MOST" people come away in awe when hearing JTR and Seaton speakers. I think just about every GTG where they were present has proved this time and time again. Even without measurements....lol (inside joke that AcuDefTechGuy will get) wink.gif
post #58 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

How about this, "MOST" people come away in awe when hearing JTR and Seaton speakers. I think just about every GTG where they were present has proved this time and time again. Even without measurements....lol

Come on man! A speaker can't sound good unless you spend $20K or more biggrin.gif
post #59 of 112
Thread Starter 
So let me ask this... I've been searching around the forum and I see room with 2 or 3 triple 12s from JTR... Single 8s for surround ... and 2 Rhythmik F25s for subs.. All of this in a room equal to or smaller than my own.

If you've got an amp like an Onkyo 818 or comparable... what is the motivation for upgrading to something like the triple 12s or Noesis 228HT?

If the Single 8s go for 899-999 a piece... spending a couple hundred extra for the Noesis 228HT isn't unreasonable... but I'm not fully understanding the reasons why.
post #60 of 112
Thread Starter 
Also, the recommendation is for a Rhythmik 15HP which is about $1280... The Rhythmik F25 appears to be about $100 more...

Would the Onkyo 818 be able to adequately power the Noesis 228's and the F25?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Given 5K to spend on a 7.1 dedicated theater room.. how would you do it?