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AVS Can't-Wait Special—"Mastered in 4K" Blu-Ray Releases - Page 21

post #601 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenyatto View Post

I got earlier these two 4K Mastered titles: Godzilla and Men In Black! The PQ ans SQ of both impressed me a lot! I may buy one more 4K title.
Full 1080P screenshots from the 4K Godzilla are now available in this review:

http://www.doblu.com/2013/07/26/godzilla-1998-mastered-in-4k-blu-ray-review/

I really wish the movie was better...
post #602 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

No Best Buy I hear (and can't seem to find it online there either). So we think that Fry's stores will have them?

I picked up both MEN IN BLACK and SPIDERMAN 2 at Fry's just in the past week. I think they have all of the "Mastered in 4K" titles in various locations around the store (sometimes stocked next to the Sony 4K panel display).

Haven't watched SPIDERMAN 2 yet, but gave MEN IN BLACK a spin over the weekend... and it looks terrific.
post #603 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

And that's the best news ever. There are some seriously film-destroying scenes and changes in 2.1, and there is only one good addition (the scene with MJ and her friend talking about love).

I want to buy this in store, not really an online shopper. No Best Buy I hear (and can't seem to find it online there either). So we think that Fry's stores will have them?
I bought ALL my four on line. I got them right to my door without having to hunt for them. You are NOT going to save much while driving around for them.. Your call.
post #604 of 824
So, I studied a lot of the caps and comments on here on these remasters, from what I understand these are the main differences:

MASTERED IN 4K vs ORIGINAL RELEASE

MASSIVELY BETTER THAN ORIGINAL RELEASE
GHOSTBUSTERS [all around way better]
MEN IN BLACK [all around way better]
SPIDER-MAN 1 [all around way better]

SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN ORIGINAL RELEASE
GLORY [slightly more detail and better grain]
THE KARATE KID [more detail and better color balance]
MONEYBALL [slightly more detail, better grain, less EE]
THE OTHER GUYS [slightly more detail, better grain, less EE]

SIMILAR TO THE ORIGINAL RELEASE
BATTLE: LOS ANGELES [looks near identical]
TAXI DRIVER [looks near identical]
TOTAL RECALL [looks near identical, though I heard the streaming audio dropout from original release was fixed]

WORSE THAN THE ORIGINAL RELEASE
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN [No 3D Blu-ray included, and 2D version looks the same]
ANGELS & DEMONS [Black crush, glitch in scene where prop was not digitally removed from picture - original release does not have this problem]
SPIDER-MAN 2 [Really weird gamma and color, dark banding in one scene not in original release]

Pretty much agreed? Anyone find any glitches or differences from the originals in these aside from the above mentioned?
Edited by Ruined - 7/29/13 at 11:20am
post #605 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post


SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN ORIGINAL RELEASE
THE KARATE KID [more detail and better color balance]
I would put this one in the "similar" category. The stills look like they just boosted the gamma slightly, which reduces color saturation and raises shadow details slightly. Your preference will depend on how your display is calibrated more than anything. It is nothing like doing a new scan in the case of the others.
Quote:
SIMILAR TO THE ORIGINAL RELEASE
TOTAL RECALL [looks near identical, though I heard the streaming audio dropout from original release was fixed]
Stills may look the same but it has a much (needed) higher bitrate. David has argued this alone makes it "significantly better".
Quote:
WORSE THAN THE ORIGINAL RELEASE
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN [No 3D Blu-ray included, and 2D version looks the same]
Regarding PQ alone, I would say this one got a much needed gamma / contrast boost. The original is way too dim. The new one brings out lots of shadow detail (eg: threads on Spidey's mask) and brightens the whole image.
post #606 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Pretty much agreed? Anyone find any glitches or differences from the originals in these aside from the above mentioned?

I do not agree, in the caps-a-holic images, Moneyball and to a slighter extent Ghostbusters have less detail. Moneyball is a interesting case in point, the 'consensus' on the old BD was it had perfect pq (in the tier thread here as well) except for one reviewer who complained about artifacts and who got slagged on the you know where site for doing so.
But now the 'consensus' on Moneyball is it has EE which it does in the caps, black outlines in a lot of places, and the pq is once again called perfect. I guess those who ranked the old BD pq 5 out of 5 will give the new one 10 out of 5. I say, the caps-a-holic images show the new Moneyball BD has been scrubbed, that's right scrubbed for I still see EE laying underneath in the exact same places and yeah a lot less detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Stills may look the same but it has a much (needed) higher bitrate. David has argued this alone makes it "significantly better".

Gee thank goodness for that, we no longer have to look at images or even watch, just read the bitrate.
post #607 of 824
Or in your case, just read reviews and see screecaps.

I don't think BDA, THX, Technicolor, Sony, Fox, Disney are talking out of heir collective asses when they also claim that higher bitrate will show more details in motion/complex scenes as opposed to a paused frame. biggrin.gif

But then again, you're Wuther, you must know a lot more than even the BDA, ThX, Technicolor etc...afterall, what do they know, right? biggrin.gif
post #608 of 824
Can't wait to see some of these mastered in 4k masterpieces on my lowly 1080p screen smile.gif
post #609 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Or in your case, just read reviews and see screecaps.

I don't think BDA, THX, Technicolor, Sony, Fox, Disney are talking out of heir collective asses when they also claim that higher bitrate will show more details in motion/complex scenes as opposed to a paused frame. biggrin.gif

But then again, you're Wuther, you must know a lot more than even the BDA, ThX, Technicolor etc...afterall, what do they know, right? biggrin.gif

His posts are typically comical, no doubt about it.
post #610 of 824
In the case of Moneyball, it's quite evident the original disc was over-sharpened and this was my opinion when I first viewed that disc last year. It over-emphasized the film grain and gives the initial appearance of more detail but in all reality it's virtually the same as turning up the sharpness control to levels where artifacts become present. The Mi4K version looks notably more smoother and natural. In fact, all of the Mi4K screenshots I have seen look more film-like than the original version.
post #611 of 824
Sounds fab
post #612 of 824
Some things I don't understand about studios is the Road Warrior from Warner. They used a 50GB disc but only use 23GB maybe for yield or something. But then they only do a 25.63 bitrate. I really don't understand this at all. That film doesn't NEED a higher bitrate at that aspect ratio but it still stands that this studio out of all of them is really weird when it comes to releases. Why not simply leave the encoder at 35 and call it a day. Makes no sense to me.

It also makes me feel like there is very little reason to invest in Taxi Driver 4K without extras as the film is even higher than Road Warrior although I still think the extra bitrate helps here and there with grain.
Edited by khronikos - 7/30/13 at 6:39am
post #613 of 824
Some mastering companies don't want to use the outer edge of the disc if the budget allows. This is because the chance of tracking error is higher on the outer rings of the disc. Or sometimes the studio put the movie on a single layer and trailers, special features, even menu on a separate layer. Usully this is don when they want to release the same movie in different region with different trailers, menu and special features.
post #614 of 824
Yeah it is a good enough bitrate for sure at that ratio I am still mystified why they can't use 40GB of the disc though. I guess dual layers cause problems too or something lol. IDK seems pretty weird to me.
post #615 of 824
Studios like Warner Bros. take a "good enough for the masses" attitude toward their home video releases (that's why they never got over their compress for HD-DVD approach). They should be going for a "best possible product" mentality. Some of these 4k re-masters show that when some care and a high bitrate come together, the video quality can be quite an improvement over the original "push it out the door" version.
post #616 of 824
I've only read a little of this long thread but I have a couple of questions.
Do you need all Sony equipment to see the benefits? I have a bdp-590 and a 65vt50.
Is it safe to get the mi4k version over the standard bluray for all titles? There are some I am interested in that I don't already own on bluray.
Thanks.
post #617 of 824
^ see posts #605 #606

These differences are all due to the new transfers, without the extra Sony tricks.

Spider-Man 2 looks really weird.
Edited by AVfile - 7/31/13 at 7:30am
post #618 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

So, I studied a lot of the caps and comments on here on these remasters, from what I understand these are the main differences:
...
Pretty much agreed? Anyone find any glitches or differences from the originals in these aside from the above mentioned?

Almost.

Regarding

WORSE THAN THE ORIGINAL RELEASE
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN [No 3D Blu-ray included, and 2D version looks the same]

The 2D does not look the same as the 4k, it looks better and more natural. The 4k is sharpenned with EE, and it's almost like the inverse situation of Moneyball and The Other Guys.

EE can be clearly noted in the comparisons bellow and there's some highlights boots.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?art=magnify&x=824&y=429&action=1&image=4&cID=1707&cap1=22365&cap2=22353&lossless=1#vergleich
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?art=magnify&x=568&y=391&action=1&image=4&cID=1707&cap1=22365&cap2=22353&lossless=1#vergleich


SIMILAR TO THE ORIGINAL RELEASE
BATTLE: LOS ANGELES [looks near identical]

I'd say not really, the original has better contrast and compression. Grain appears filtered out on the 4k and blacks seem grayed out.
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=22860&cap2=22852&art=full&image=4&cID=1737&action=1&lossless=1#vergleich


Godzilla (1998) should be on the first category
post #619 of 824
I don't think The Amazing Spider-Man had a 4k master. It may have been digitally shot in 4k, but the visual effects were 2k, and the digital IP probably was rendered out at 2k. The 4k version probably was upconverted. When they do that, there's usually a bit of sharpening added.

It will be quite some time before there is much in the way of true 4k material. The only big source right now would be 35mm and 65mm celluloid films that had no digital visual effects or 2k IP's made for color timing at any point in the production given new 8k, 6k, or 4k scans. Another would be all-CG animated films that were re-rendered with 4k textures and skins.

The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was one of the very few all-digital 4k workflows from camera to IP to DCP. Even the visual effects, as few as there was, got rendered at 4k.

UHD may be more of a marketing stunt unless they do add higher video bit depths, greater chroma scaling, a wider color gamut, and superior object based audio.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 8/3/13 at 8:44am
post #620 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I don't think The Amazing Spider-Man had a 4k master. It may have been digitally shot in 4k, but the visual effects were 2k, and the digital IP probably was rendered out at 2k. The 4k version problem was upconverted. When they do that, there's usually a bit of sharpening added.
Your right.
It was shot in 5K stereo but edited in 2K.
They could have re-linked the edit back to the original 5K .R3D RAW and only up-converted the CGI before mixing them in, but I doubt they did put that much effort for the "4K mastering".

Quote:
It will be quite some time before there is much in the way of true 4k material. The only big source right now would be 35mm and 65mm celluloid films that had no digital visual effects or 2k IP's made for color timing at any point in the production given new 8k, 6k, or 4k scans. Another would be all-CG animated films that were re-rendered with 4k textures and skins.
35mm film doesn't resolve 4K of resolution. More like 3.5K.
35mm can make a good 4K image if it is scanned at higher resolution than 4K in a good scanner and oversample, but that has to be from the negatives to draw out full quality.

Movies that are already released before they make a 4K version are mostly done from a up-convert of the 2KDI or a rescan of a show print which is a positive on different film stock than what the original shooting stock was, and was not made by a the optical chemical process of old but printed to the show print stock with lasers .

I wouldn't have my hopes up that they will be amazingly much better in the future compared to 2K movies shot on film where everything was done right.

Side-by-side test between 65mm and 4K digital capture and scans on a 4K DLP projectors and 70mm projectors is that the 4K digital marches 70mm in image quality, maybe even a little better.
Quote:
The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was one of the very few all-digital 4k workflows from camera to IP to DCP. Even the visual effects, as few as there was, got rendered at 4k.
Surprisingly much VFX in that movie. More than 1000 VFX shots, almost as many as Prometheus.
But very little of it was motion CGI (same for Prometheus) which is what cost real render time and money.
Quote:
UHD may be more of a marketing stunt unless they do add higher video bit depths, greater chroma scaling, a wider color gamut, and superior object based audio.
The most important part of 4K image quality over 2K is that the movie is shot with cameras with higher than 4K resolution and oversampled to 4K in post. That is where the improved image quality comes from.

After that it is just a matter of running the material through the proper process to reproduce the capture faithfully without loosing the quality, and of course the things you mentions which is the added bonuses.
Edited by coolscan - 8/2/13 at 2:42pm
post #621 of 824
Has BestBuy (USA) stopped selling these Mi4k titles? I tried two locations in NH and couldn't find any in store or online.
post #622 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Has BestBuy (USA) stopped selling these Mi4k titles? I tried two locations in NH and couldn't find any in store or online.

Honestly, I don't know if they ever started selling them.
post #623 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Side-by-side test between 65mm and 4K digital capture and scans on a 4K DLP projectors and 70mm projectors is that the 4K digital marches 70mm in image quality, maybe even a little better.
In the real world I have yet to see a 4K projection that matches any of the 70mm prints I have had the pleasure of viewing. It's no contest so far. I look forward to the day when I witness digital projection that can match 70mm prints of 2001, Lawrence of Arabia and PATTON.
post #624 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

Honestly, I don't know if they ever started selling them.

BestBuy used to have some of the Mastered in 4K titles online. I purchased the Mastered in 4K titles, Battle LA, Ghostbusters, and Glory from Best Buy online in May. But I just checked and when I look at those orders and click on those links, it takes me to a different version of those movies now.

Originally, i don't even think the online descriptions ever said" mastered in 4K". I had to go by the release date when I ordered them to figure out that they were the correct versions. I guess I should have ordered more of the mastered in 4K titles from BestBuy when I had the chance.
post #625 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

In the real world I have yet to see a 4K projection that matches any of the 70mm prints I have had the pleasure of viewing. It's no contest so far. I look forward to the day when I witness digital projection that can match 70mm prints of 2001, Lawrence of Arabia and PATTON.
If you saw a side-by-side you might change your opinion as that is really the only way to come to any definite conclusion.

There has only been one really big shoot-out between 15/70mm and 4K digital.
It was the Digital Cinema Symposium presented by D3D Cinema and Moody Gardens held in Galveston, Texas in January 2011.

You can read the report posted here;
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1319207/barcos-4k-dlp-cinema-projector-takes-on-15-70mm-film-at-digital-cinema-symposium#post_21602311

There are also some other links in that thread.
post #626 of 824
The Sony F65 5k and RED Dragon 6k cameras are starting to get the ball rolling. I'm sure at some point in time digital will actually have more capabilities and look superior to film (35mm and 65mm), but we're not quite there yet.

Why?

Mainly, it has to do with WORKFLOW and DISTRIBUTION. That's a lot of data to wrangle and large storage buckets and faster computers have to be easier to come by and 4k and higher digital projection systems are few and far between. The compression used has to be able to stay visually lossless to the camera source and hold up on HUGE screens.

You could have the best cameras in the world, but who will be able to view what they're capable of unless the entire system is upgraded. That takes big money.

Home video must also be able to deliver that kind of quality to the home environment as well. After all, this is where movies get the most play and live on long after their initial theatrical runs. It's not like you can go to your local cineplex and watch Jaws or Lawrence of Arabia on a large screen whenever you feel like it.
post #627 of 824
Well, the projection side of things will be fixed in the next year. Every name in projection is punching through that particular wall and some of them will be bringing laser projectors to market as the FDA has signed off on a few designs as being acceptable for public use.
post #628 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

Well, the projection side of things will be fixed in the next year. Every name in projection is punching through that particular wall and some of them will be bringing laser projectors to market as the FDA has signed off on a few designs as being acceptable for public use.

That may be, but the workflows (and even the SFX) must be able to handle 4k and up digital files from these advanced cameras and also the compression codec used... a lot of DCP's given to 4k cinemas (which are a small minority right now) are still only 2k. Fine if the screens are mini-mall, multi-plex sized, but I thought the push was for ever bigger screens like back in the golden age (along with advanced audio) to get people back in the theaters?
post #629 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

BestBuy used to have some of the Mastered in 4K titles online. I purchased the Mastered in 4K titles, Battle LA, Ghostbusters, and Glory from Best Buy online in May. But I just checked and when I look at those orders and click on those links, it takes me to a different version of those movies now.

Originally, i don't even think the online descriptions ever said" mastered in 4K". I had to go by the release date when I ordered them to figure out that they were the correct versions. I guess I should have ordered more of the mastered in 4K titles from BestBuy when I had the chance.
Check Amazon. I bought Godzilla the other day and I think I saw some of the other titles in the Mastered in 4K series on the site.
post #630 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post

Check Amazon. I bought Godzilla the other day and I think I saw some of the other titles in the Mastered in 4K series on the site.
Thanks.
I have several of the titles on my amazon Wish List. I just went ahead and ordered the Godzilla mastered in 4K title since I got a $10 credit from Amazon this week for a messed up order. So $5 out of pocket is pretty good.

Of course now the price will drop several dollars.
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