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Denon AVR-3313ci or Denon AVR-X4000 - Page 5

post #121 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 View Post


So, no, if the 103 is set to DSD over HDMI for SACD, then the X4000 does not have to set to DSD Direct. Rather, the X4000 simply decodes the bitstreamed DSD signal, and it sounds awesome. Although I couldn't hear any difference between the player outputting DSD vs outputting PCM.

Interesting. So then if you're not using DSD DIRECT, what surround are you using when passing the DSD?
post #122 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Interesting. So then if you're not using DSD DIRECT, what surround are you using when passing the DSD?
I'm going from memory, as my player is now set to output HDMI1 (as I'm researching, trying to understand if there's any video or audio gain by using dual HDMI output), but when I had my player output HDMI2, and the player set to output DSD, when pressing INFO on the AVR, it told me the signal was DSD, rather than PCM. i clearly remember now, and the MODE (or SURROUND) was MULTI CH IN. Whether the player was set to output DSD or PCM, pressing INFO on the AVR would show me MULTI CH IN. The signal would change between DSD or PCM.
post #123 of 149
Okay that makes sense as I just spotted the following in the Owner's manual ...



And in the 3313CI Owner's manual it indicates the following ...



so again, thanks for bringing this to light. smile.gif
post #124 of 149
My pleasure, JD, and thanks to you for all your guidance and patience as I work through all my preferred settings on my new AVR! smile.gif
post #125 of 149
Please continue it in the Denon AVR-E/X Owner's thread linked in my sig for further assistance. Thanks. smile.gif
post #126 of 149
Does anyone know If the 4000 will handle 4 ohm Denon said no Hard to believe
post #127 of 149
About a year ago I attempted to replace my HK AVR 635 with a Denon 2312CI. After about a month of messing with the receiver I decided I could not get the sound from the 2312CI to my liking and in fact liked it less after attempting Audyssey calibration many times. Dialogue was very difficul to understand.

I lived with the AVR 635 happily for the last year and got a great deal on a Pioneer Elite SC-63 ($650 new in box at local Best Buy) this past weekend. It has Class D amps rated at 125W into 8 ohm. I have Klipsh speakers. I hooked it up and am pretty pleased with the sound after only doing manual SPL and distance settings. I have not even messed with MCACC settings. I am very disappointed the Pioneer does not have any OSD while watching a source (you cannot even see the volume adjustment). I know Denon has some very nice OSD and being able to make adjustment on the screen while the source continues to play in the background.

Considering giving a X4000 a shot. Does it have better amps and power supplies when compared to the old 2312CI? I know about XT vs. 32 so I don't need to know how much 'better' the audyssey is between the two models. How about OSD/GUI of the X4000 - assume you can see volume adjustment, channel levels and perhaps even be able to adjust channel levels (center and sub specifically) while watching a source and still be able to hear and see the source?

Thanks!
post #128 of 149
Quote:
Does anyone know If the 4000 will handle 4 ohm Denon said no Hard to believe

I pondered that myself, since I have 4 ohm Martin Logan speakers. I'm sure it could have handled them, but I used this as an excuse to get a Denon 4520 instead. The 4520 has no problem with 4 ohm !! smile.gif
post #129 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Quote:
Does anyone know If the 4000 will handle 4 ohm Denon said no Hard to believe

I pondered that myself, since I have 4 ohm Martin Logan speakers. I'm sure it could have handled them, but I used this as an excuse to get a Denon 4520 instead. The 4520 has no problem with 4 ohm !! smile.gif

Kinda depends on how LOUD he listens, how OFTEN & how LONG.
post #130 of 149
Quote:
Kinda depends on how LOUD he listens, how OFTEN & how LONG.

I look at reciever / amp power like I look at projector lumens and money - you can never have too much. You can have too little. smile.gif
post #131 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Quote:
Kinda depends on how LOUD he listens, how OFTEN & how LONG.

I look at reciever / amp power like I look at projector lumens and money - you can never have too much. You can have too little. smile.gif

+1; or horsepower...

I also add efficient speakers...
post #132 of 149
Can someone tell me if either of these units functions as a true HDMI matrix? I have four HDMI inputs (DirecTV, Sony BluRay, Xbox 360, and Wii) that I want to be able to direct to any one of three TVs via HDMI. It's fine if two of the TVs receive the same signal as long as the third can receive a different source. It looks like either the 3313 or X4000 would do this, but I'm confused by several mentions of different zones not receiving digital audio.

I currently have a Monoprice HDMI 4x4 matrix feeding into a Denon 2113 but the matrix won't send the full 5.1 signal, only stereo. I'm hoping I could ditch the Monoprice matrix and replace the 2113 with a 3313 or X4000 instead.

Thanks for your expertise.

Jim
post #133 of 149
Both models have a dedicated Zone 2 (HDMI) which can pass an different HDMI source than what is playing in the main zone, however, if playing the same source, and the Zone 2 (HDMI) is connected directly to a TV, the main zone would likely be downmixed to stereo only just as is the case when using an HDMI splitter. The X4000 can additionally play the HDMI audio to a set of Zone 2 speakers connected to either the Zone 2 pre-outs or speaker posts.
post #134 of 149
In this scenario, the TV connected via HDMI to the Zone 2 output would play audio through the TV speakers without additional cabling, correct?
post #135 of 149
Correct. The HDMI signal simply passes through the Zone 2(HDMI) monitor out without any processing and would require an HDMI sync (TV or AVR) to do the processing.
post #136 of 149
I have also been trying to replace a good old HK AVR635 for the past year with another receiver. I went through the 2313 and 3313, but neither could hold a candle to the 635. I too am curious if there have been improvements in the amps of the X4000. I purchased an SC71 a month or so ago, and although there were OSD improvements, the sound just was not there. I purchased the SC63 last week and finally hear something that is comparable to the 635. The price was just over $600 new, so I got a bargain, so I can still purchase something else if needed. Denon Reps tell me that there is no significant differences in the 3313 and the x4000, and no difference in the amp. They say that the only real difference is the newer room correction. I hope that they have made improvements, and would like to hear from others who have actually made comparisons.
post #137 of 149
What speakers are you using and at what master volume levels are you using that make you believe the 3313CI and 2313CI don't compare to the HK 635?
post #138 of 149
Crazy. I too am replacing my 635. Also looking at the x4000. Interested to hear more of these comparisons. If not the x4000, then what?
post #139 of 149
Same question then .. what speakers and at what master volume levels?
post #140 of 149
The ascend acoustics cmt 340s for me. I think the x4000 should drive them just fine at any volume I could possibly stand.
I'm interested in the post saying the x4000 didn't stand up to the 635... Was that related to quality/clarity or just in sheer volume?
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html
Edited by doc5md - 11/20/13 at 4:26pm
post #141 of 149
^^
At 8-ohm and 90db, those speakers could be driven fairly easily by any of the Denon models to include the X4000.
post #142 of 149
I was in the Crutchfield store in Charlottesville today and they will sell me the last 3313 they have for $680. I'm thinking this is a great deal and the X4000 (or anything else at that price) isn't worth the extra $650. Am I right?

I have a 3310 CI right now that is randomly switching inputs on me and is really annoying so I need to replace it. I'm running a 7.1 system with Aperion Intimus LCRs and Aperion Intimus 8" in-ceiling surrounds. So it's not a super high power theater set-up, but not bookshelf speakers either.

Thanks for any advice you guys have!
post #143 of 149
Yes, that is a very good price indeed as long as you don't need any of the newer features provided on the X4000.

X4000 vs 3313CI:
Pro: Network diagnostics; Input Assign (analog audio inputs); Expandable to 9CH w/external 2CH amp; MultEQ XT32, Sub EQ HT (dual subs); 11.2 main zone pre-outs; Audyssey LFC, DTS Neo:X (9.2); Audyssey DSX (9.2); HDMI Video Select (USB, Tuner, Network + CD + Phono); InstaPreview (HDMI – 2D); Zone 2 HDMI Audio (Through/PCM – PCM 2.0 to Zone 2 speaker posts/pre-outs); Optical/Coax digital PCM 2.0  Zones 2/3; All Zone Stereo (Zones 2/3); 2nd Analog Devices DSP
post #144 of 149
I am running Paradigm Reference Millenia 200's front, 20 center and surrounds, all very efficient speakers. The 635 seems to boost the base, and mids better than the Denon models did. I did not run room correction on either. The Denon models just did not have the clarity at normal listening levels (where you can carry on a conversation while playing music). The 2313 actually seemed the better of the two. I listen to more music in two channel, but enjoy blu ray movies. As for movies, there seemed to be less difference. This is all just my opinion.
Edited by Harmon Fan - 11/21/13 at 5:33am
post #145 of 149
Yeh .. .should have run Audyssey.
post #146 of 149
I actually ended up getting an Onkyo 818 because it's 500 off now so was only 20 more and seemed to get better reviews. Plus it has many of the features the x4000 had. Crutch field is the best on returns too so I end up not liking it I'll just take it back.
post #147 of 149
Although it features the same version of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 as does the X4000, it does not feature most of the features listed in post #143.
post #148 of 149
Help please with AVR-X4000

I run through the setup and also reset the processor and it's not decoding DD.5.1 I hear sound (PLII Cinema) but that's it. I tried my blurry player and it only shows PLII Cinema. I also called Denon and they were no help. Am I missing a setting, everything is set to auto decode? I just got this today, is it a bad unit?

Thank you, Jerry
post #149 of 149
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