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TD15M - SEOS12 - BMS4550 / theater progress / Dual TD6M - SEOS12 - BMS4550 build. :D - Page 3

post #61 of 314
madlim, good link for this discussion. I hadn't seen it. I'm not familiar at all with AE speakers. I still think what MTG is getting is enclosure baffle related based on the measurements shown here. But if the TD6 inherently has a dip at 800hz, it might explain why MTG's measurement shows a wider and deeper null (10db) compared to my 5db narrow null.
post #62 of 314
I really don't think the notch at 750hz stands out too much, I have been listening to it for the past 2-3 hours dialing in the crossover and it sounds pretty good right now. Here is the FR, this was indoors so below 500hz looks funky and really smoothed out because of the gating.


I may try flattening the peak at 18k and dip just before to see if the change is audible enough to warrant the 4 extra parts needed.

Also you may or may not want to hear this but had I not known it was the 4550 in there I would have guessed it to be the DNA-350/360 or DE250, they sound pretty much identical when their FR flattened out.
post #63 of 314
Thread Starter 
Matt. Thanks for all the effort put into this project. I really can't thank you enough.

Just to show that I'm trying to be as productive on my end. biggrin.gif

Stuck late at work but managed to bang out a little baffle work. Still waiting on my router bearing kit, which should be here on Thurs so I can mount the wg's. I unfortunately screwed up one baffle. I did just what we were talking about that was the issue with the jasper. Hard to read upside down (still don't know why they made it that way) and I stuck it on the wrong hole. 1/4 too small for an outer and 1-1/4" too large for the inner. mad.gif

Looks like yet another trip to HD. cool.gif

post #64 of 314
Thread Starter 
Slow going. Between work, yard work, and everything else; I've been running around like a chicken with my head cut off.

Cut lots o circles today.


After going completely overboard on my sub bracing, I thought I'd tame it down a bit on this one. Seeing as this will be crossed at 80, do you think this is sufficient bracing? My OCD really wanted to do window bracing above and below driver, but I'm not entirely sure it would have made much difference. I will add one vertical brace to connect between the WG and back of cab, but that's about it. Front is DB 3/4" MDF.

On a side note; I have a false bottom as mentioned in my first post to avoid building a stand. I was thinking of filling this with sand as I have my stage. Any thoughts on this? I figure it would do a nice job dampening the cab a little bit as well as preventing resonances from the sub.


Edited by bass addict - 5/8/13 at 8:12pm
post #65 of 314
Awesome build thread, guys! I am curious to hear more about the BMS-4550 versus the DNA-360 and B&C DE250. Do any of you
guys have any experience with these? (besides mtg90?) I also can't help but wonder if going with the Seos-15 mated with the
BMS-4550 would be any better than the Seos-12 mated with the BMS-4550? I would imagine that the Seos-15 would allow the
BMS-4550 to reach more of it's potential, right?
post #66 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Awesome build thread, guys! I am curious to hear more about the BMS-4550 versus the DNA-360 and B&C DE250. Do any of you
guys have any experience with these? (besides mtg90?) I also can't help but wonder if going with the Seos-15 mated with the
BMS-4550 would be any better than the Seos-12 mated with the BMS-4550? I would imagine that the Seos-15 would allow the
BMS-4550 to reach more of it's potential, right?

This is actually one of the first few 4550 builds I've seen here. There just aren't enough designs and work done with the 4550 yet to determine if it is better than the dna-360. Both are great CDs.
post #67 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Awesome build thread, guys! I am curious to hear more about the BMS-4550 versus the DNA-360 and B&C DE250.
I expect them to be extremely close. I think the differences, if any, will be at their limits. Which one starts to break up first.
I plan on hooking the 4550s up to my D-sonic M2 1500 that has 3 x 500 watts @ 8ohm and flat out pour the coal to my build.biggrin.gif
Chris W
post #68 of 314
Ya, I think the 4550 might have a little more bottom end potential IF you listen at high SPL. At moderate SPL, you can run either of them down to their acoustic limit. And the acoustic limit seems to be pretty similar (800hz). The waveguide might affect this limit, but mostly it'll affect the directivity limit and the SEOS15 would be better for crossing down in the 900hz range. All that is speculation wink.gif
post #69 of 314
Either way, the more builds the better! There has been, and continues to be some fantastic work being done with these cds, waveguides, drivers, crossovers, etc.
post #70 of 314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Either way, the more builds the better! There has been, and continues to be some fantastic work being done with these cds, waveguides, drivers, crossovers, etc.

And I love to add one more to the mix, but I'm still waiting on my bracing/sand filled question. biggrin.gif
post #71 of 314
i think weighting the false bottom with something might be a good idea. as for the bracing, why not add some wood dowels? easy.
post #72 of 314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

i think weighting the false bottom with something might be a good idea. as for the bracing, why not add some wood dowels? easy.

Why do dowels when I have plenty of left over strips of MDF, lol.
post #73 of 314
filling it with sand should work fine. prsonally id add another horix brace between the horn and woof even with where the first baffle will go on, as well as a vert brace.
post #74 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Why do dowels when I have plenty of left over strips of MDF, lol.

that will work
post #75 of 314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

filling it with sand should work fine. prsonally id add another horix brace between the horn and woof even with where the first baffle will go on, as well as a vert brace.

I think that's a good idea. I'll add a window brace between the wg and driver. If nothing else, I won't lose any sleep at night. biggrin.gif

I'm also going to go ahead and fill the lower cavity with sand. I think this will be beneficial in more than one capacity.
post #76 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


I expect them to be extremely close. I think the differences, if any, will be at their limits. Which one starts to break up first.
I plan on hooking the 4550s up to my D-sonic M2 1500 that has 3 x 500 watts @ 8ohm and flat out pour the coal to my build.biggrin.gif
Chris W

Wow, I can't wait to hear your impressions of the you build with the BMS-4550's with that D-sonic amp!
post #77 of 314
Thread Starter 
Here is the current progress as of last night. I feel good with the bracing at this point and am ready to fill the base with sand and finish routing and installing the baffles. I just received my bearing kit, and to my disappointment, it didn't fit my router base. So I figured that was a worthwhile enough excuse to buy a new router. biggrin.gif

On a side note; what do you recommend for dampening material. With most sealed I have opted to just stuff them, but do you recommend a different approach. I looked at this stuff, but it's spendy and might not offer any improvement over stuffing in sealed.



post #78 of 314
OC703 was used in my towers. Should work better than the standard polyfil.
post #79 of 314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

OC703 was used in my towers. Should work better than the standard polyfil.

I thought that with ported you wanted to use fiberglass or the like, and with sealed it was recommended to just stuff it. Not sure.

I ran out of OC but I do have a ton of duct liner leftover that I could use. I'd probably rather use that too as I think it would take up less airspace than the 703.
post #80 of 314
I would avoid fiberglass with ports. Wouldn't want those fibers blowing out into the air.
post #81 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I would avoid fiberglass with ports. Wouldn't want those fibers blowing out into the air.


Yeah, I would use polyfil with a ported enclosure.

post #82 of 314
Bass Addict I am just curious as to why you choose the Seos12 over the Seos15?
post #83 of 314
Looking good my man. Are you doing a full 3/4" recess on the Waveguide cutout? Also, which bushing set are you using? I need to pick up a set of those as well.
post #84 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Bass Addict I am just curious as to why you choose the Seos12 over the Seos15?

Availability and measurements. The SEOS-15 is an unknown in how it performs atm.

I have a pair of 4550s and two SEOS-15 on preorder. This allows me to wait 3-12 months before we start seeing some possible kits, measurements, crossovers, etc.
post #85 of 314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Bass Addict I am just curious as to why you choose the Seos12 over the Seos15?

The SEOS12 was available and the 15 was not. wink.gif

Also, in my size room, the gains of the 15 over the 12 would be minimal at best. Down the road when upgradeitis hits I'll look at changing them out, but I'm sure I will be content for quite some time.

Andrew, raved about the SQ of the Sentinal kit and it was paired with a SEOS12, so I think all will be well. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Looking good my man. Are you doing a full 3/4" recess on the Waveguide cutout? Also, which bushing set are you using? I need to pick up a set of those as well.

Andrew,

I used this one. It only fits routers with 1-3/16" base plate holes though. I found this out the hard way. If your router doesn't have one, and you don't want to buy a new one like I did, you can purchase a universal base plate kit which fits most routers and has the right hole. I know that Makita, Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Porter Cable do. Bosch, Skil, and Ridgid do not.

I am not doing a full recess on the waveguide. I will sink it about a 1/8" - 1/4" into the first 3/4" baffle. Whatever amount it takes to flush mount with the surface.
post #86 of 314
I am anxious to see what you think when you get these flowing music. I would be really interested to see a SEOS 12 and a SEOS 15 head to head with the same CD and paired with the same woofer. Would love to see measurements and listening impressions and maybe go active so that you could play with the crossover points easily. Maybe I will try and do this when I get everything together. It is an exciting time to have all of these choices available. Looking forward to seeing your builds progress.

Brian
post #87 of 314
Thread Starter 
Well Matt had some really good preliminary reports on this combo.
Quote:
I started working on the crossover for the TD15 design, BTW it sounds amazing. what's nice is that I've only had to tweak one resistor value. Those are going to be really impressive
post #88 of 314
Thread Starter 
Well I think I set a record for the most time spent cutting one baffle, lol. 4 hrs later we have one completed. The good news is I now have a template which will allow me to jam through the other 2 mains, plus the 2 heights.

It's starting to look like a speaker finally.


post #89 of 314
I would make fun of you but it wouldn't surprise me if it took me longer to do the same task. It looks nice.
post #90 of 314
Thread Starter 
OK, my back is telling me to call it quits for the day. I had a couple PM's asking for some clarification on routing your own baffle so I thought I'd add a couple quick pics. There are some other tutorials floating around here too I believe.

To add to a couple of the pics I posted earlier in the thread.

Clamp the wg down to the cut piece (I put a screw in each corner to secure it), and hold the router firmly against the wg while making the cut. You'll end up with this. You need to make sure you are using a 1/4" bit for this to work.


You will then take your piece that you just cut out and attach it to what will be your template. This is what you'll end up with. I would recommend using a piece of 1/8" hardboard as your template. Why? We'll get to that in a bit. You can see my template underneath.


I chose to cut my template out of an 1/8" piece of hardboard that was the exact dimension as my baffle. This would allow me to quickly go from speaker to speaker without having to measure over and over, and know that it was centered on the money.


This is what your template cut should look like afterwards. As you can see there is exactly a 1/4" gap all the way around the wg.


Here is where the router guides come into play. I picked mine up from Infinity tools. They will only work on router bases with 1-3/16" center holes. Those would include Makita, Dewalt, Milwaukee, and of course Porter Cable. Bosch requires an adapter as well as Skil and Ridgid.


Here is what it looks like with the guide in place.


Here is why I recommend using a 1/8" in backer for the template. The guide hangs down 1/8" below the router base, which just happens to sit almost flush with the 1/8" backer board. You can use 1/2 or 3/4" material, you'll just need to be more careful as the router will tend to tip in a bit more.


This is tough to see, but if you look closely, just to the left of the guide you can see my backer board that the guide rides up against. I started with a guide that was 1/16" smaller than 3/4" as I was looking for a really snug fit. Well due to mfg tolerances of the wg's this required a bunch of sanding to get it to fit so on the next two I went with the 3/4" guide which gives you about 1/16" all the way around for easier fitment and a little margin of error. With the 3/4" guide on, your router bit is pushed out 1/4" from the template, which as we remember, was 1/4" larger than the wg. Pretty sweet. smile.gif


When installing on top of the baffle you want to cut, remember that you will need to set the template a 1/4" lower than where your final cut will be.
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