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Samsung f8500 pricing reduction? - Page 12

post #331 of 701
Samsung to discontinue Plasmas - all current models are now deemed collectors items and will escalate in price!
(Due to IR issues with Panasonics, they will Not be deemed collectors items!)
post #332 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Samsung to discontinue Plasmas - all current models are now deemed collectors items and will escalate in price!
(Due to IR issues with Panasonics, they will Not be deemed collectors items!)

Where are you hearing this? This is counter to everything I have seen thus far.
post #333 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

Where are you hearing this? This is counter to everything I have seen thus far.

It's a LOL to lighten your spirit for the Holidays!
post #334 of 701
Found a couple more F8500's and a F5300 at Conn's 92 in SW Fortw Worth.

64" F8500 - $1797
60" F8500 - $1297

64" F5300 - $947

I'm sure you can tall them into an additional 10% of for open box as well.
post #335 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by THirdCoast79 View Post

Found a couple more F8500's and a F5300 at Conn's 92 in SW Fortw Worth.

64" F8500 - $1797
60" F8500 - $1297

64" F5300 - $947

I'm sure you can tall them into an additional 10% of for open box as well.

I would ask for that for sure....perhaps more.......

ask them to to duplicate the price of the display 64F8500 that was sold at Store 97 in west Dallas.......

They told me they lost hundreds on that TV they sold me......oh well

I saw something that the salesmen printed out as I was checking out

It said "gross profit" on this unit at their "regular price" was 26%..... as many know here i bought it at about $1500 below their "regular price" ( the same as the Magnolia current price)

The same document also said "commission $2.00"

By the way..I was dealing/negotiating with the store manager on my TV


Warren
Edited by turnne1 - 1/1/14 at 4:20pm
post #336 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

Ugh. Here we go again.

I know roughly how much volume these TV's do as a whole. I also know what Best Buy's market share and inventory levels are. So I think my estimates are probably fairly accurate. I do err on the side of caution, so if I say they will be out of VT by "x" date that probably means you have a couple more weeks. I'm just trying to light a fire for those that wait until the last minute.

The tax advantage that Amazon benefits from is diminishing every day. The data suggests that absent this advantage customers are less likely to assume the internet is always cheaper. Also, they do make you prove that someone is cheaper. They also have a number of restrictions as to who they match.

[Edit] I'm just not going to get into the pricing argument with you again. I simply can't share enough to really explain how it works. Just know that it's not quite as dubious as you seem to think.

I do think you are speculating a bit on Samsung's total volume

You might know BB volume's and their estimated market share ...key word.."estimated"...as it would make total sense that you would

As for the Samsung totals of this volume of this model...you are estimating /speculating

Clearly you understand your hyperbole statement was not accurate


But...You are right...here we go again
I am not sure why you think a consumer cares about all the back end things that go into pricing or who is losing( or making) money

I am not asking you to share anything about costs...not sure why you keep bringing those points up

Do you really think the consumer cares about the details of retailer cost?

Lets say you asked 100 of your buyers a question
Assuming the item was a good price in the first place...how many would you say would decline the sale because you told them you were losing money on the transaction?...1%?

I work for a Fortune 50 company with a lot of "M" in its name , most famous for inventing the Post-it note
While I dont work in the office supply division( dealing with Staples, Office Depot etc)...I know full well of the information from co-workers about back end rebates, guaranteed buy back clauses, trial inventory allowances and other incentives paid directly to the retail from the manufacturer
Most of these "landed true costs" are not communicated past upper management level
So..my point here is....there is a LOT to the cost story of a retailer



On another note...a few interesting things I have seen in the last few days


In Dallas/Fort Worth...Magnolia pricing on the 64F8500 went UP $200!!...ok>>>LOL.....rolleyes.gif

it seems Magnolia is about "giving away" some Yamaha and Pioneer elite receivers right now....I bought a couple in the last few days at 65-75% off retail( 2012 leftover models)...and then there was a free gift card involved as well with purchase

All year long they were sold...as I mentioned before....at , or about MSRP and above market pricing

oh well...I guess timing is everything


Warren
Edited by turnne1 - 1/1/14 at 6:42pm
post #337 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I would ask for that for sure....perhaps more.......

ask them to to duplicate the price of the display 64F8500 that was sold at Store 97 in west Dallas.......

They told me they lost hundreds on that TV they sold me......oh well

I saw something that the salesmen printed out as I was checking out

It said "gross profit" on this unit at their "regular price" was 26%..... as many know here i bought it at about $1500 below their "regular price" ( the same as the Magnolia current price)

The same document also said "commission $2.00"

By the way..I was dealing/negotiating with the store manager on my TV


Warren

I'm sure on paper it was a loss, though for a floor demo, especially a plasma one (and I'm talking about the actual demonstrator, not an "open box" return), I'd imagine it's really a depreciated cost on something that they got exactly the use out of they planned when they cracked the box open and set it out on the floor. That's probably why they are able to have so much flexibility with pricing on the demos. I remember when I first introduced this Conn's deal here there were still a lot of new in the box ones around and they would not budge any further than the 1497 price on the 60 I got. Which for being unused and new I was more than pleased with.

Though in retrospect I have to say that 1690 (1933 ob - 10 percent OB coupon - 50.00 RZ discount) for my returned new and then re-purchased ZT60 is far better than the Samsung deal, and that WASN'T Conn's but rather Best Buy. So it's not like Best Buy doesn't have good deals, even if I arrived at this one in a weird and certainly unplanned way.

You can say what you will about Best Buy, but with a little knowledge and tweaking of the way things work there you can do pretty well with them. Not only that, I feel like as Best Buy matures in the online era, they are recognizing this. They went through that whole silly growing pain phase that some may remember of literally labeling their customers as "angels" and "devils" or something to that effect. The thinking being that the "devils" were serial returners and "showroomers" who looked at products there and then went online to buy them. This was also the same period of that failed attempt to stop selling open box items in the stores. I think they're finally figuring out that EVERYONE who walks through that door is a potential source of revenue if not today, then tomorrow. Things like the no cost home delivery AND pickup if you're not happy with the TV for any reason, being more flexible with their own coupons if you happen to be just outside the time period the coupon states, and just generally not treating customers as adversaries. Things like that tend to make repeat customers out of even the worst "demons". As for the tax, the online retailers still have the advantage there, but who knows for how long. We all know how the government excels at taking its piece.
Edited by Playdrv4me - 1/1/14 at 6:13pm
post #338 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

I'm sure on paper it was a loss, though for a floor demo, especially a plasma one (and I'm talking about the actual demonstrator, not an "open box" return), I'd imagine it's really a depreciated cost on something that they got exactly the use out of they planned when they cracked the box open and set it out on the floor. That's probably why they are able to have so much flexibility with pricing on the demos. I remember when I first introduced this Conn's deal here there were still a lot of new in the box ones around and they would not budge any further than the 1497 price on the 60 I got. Which for being unused and new I was more than pleased with.

Though in retrospect I have to say that 1690 (1933 ob - 10 percent OB coupon - 50.00 RZ discount) for my returned new and then re-purchased ZT60 is far better than the Samsung deal, and that WASN'T Conn's but rather Best Buy. So it's not like Best Buy doesn't have good deals, even if I arrived at this one in a weird and certainly unplanned way.

You can say what you will about Best Buy, but with a little knowledge and tweaking of the way things work there you can do pretty well with them. Not only that, I feel like as Best Buy matures in the online era, they are recognizing this. They went through that whole silly growing pain phase that some may remember of literally labeling their customers as "angels" and "devils" or something to that effect. The thinking being that the "devils" were serial returners and "showroomers" who looked at products there and then went online to buy them. This was also the same period of that failed attempt to stop selling open box items in the stores. I think they're finally figuring out that EVERYONE who walks through that door is a potential source of revenue if not today, then tomorrow. Things like the no cost home delivery AND pickup if you're not happy with the TV for any reason, being more flexible with their own coupons if you happen to be just outside the time period the coupon states, and just generally not treating customers as adversaries. Things like that tend to make repeat customers out of even the worst "demons". As for the tax, the online retailers still have the advantage there, but who knows for how long. We all know how the government excels at taking its piece.

without knowing the details of cost...its somewhat speculation

I really doubt the salesmen at Conn's even really know the "true cost" of the items they sell.....and I mean with all rebates and incentives that manufacturers typically pay to retailers

One can never really know for sure if the item is a floor model or customer return....Fry's for instance will sell the display due to no inventory, replace it with a customer return that then becomes the display..etc etc

Besides that...I cant imagine that the large retailers dont get an allowance that pays for a display or two on their showroom floor from all the manufacturers

The prices on the Panasonic models...especially the VT are falling rapidly...so it doesnt surprise me that you got a very good deal
I would imagine that even better deals are going to be out there in the next 30-60 days on Pansonic plasmas due to their discontinuation

If you recall..when Pioneer left the business there were ample units available for 50% off MSRP...and even lower( for displays at Magnolia) a few months after they were discontinued

I didnt say BB doesnt have good deals......I think the Magnolia area, in general, sells above market pricing. However...when something is discontinued after a period they sell it for a crazy price
Two examples being a couple of receivers I bought this past week...65-75% off retail....another would be those Sharp Elite LED's

I was told by BB manager this week that the free customer delivery they are providing on large TVs is covered by the TV manufacturers

There are so many "back end" deals in retail...for instance on those receivers did BB have a buy back clause that said the manufacturer had to take them back if they didnt sell
Then a year later the manufacturer just gives them a rebate so BB can blow them out vs take them back. I have heard that scenario as well with retailers and inventory that has a guaranteed sale clause from the manufacturer

I think Walmart revolutionized that concept...and a good reason why they are the largest retailer out these and lead the market( in volume) in many areas of consumers good...Groceries and toys being two of them ...I bet they do a "little" in electronics $$ as well


Warren
post #339 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

without knowing the details of cost...its somewhat speculation

I really doubt the salesmen at Conn's even really know the "true cost" of the items they sell.....and I mean with all rebates and incentives that manufacturers typically pay to retailers

One can never really know for sure if the item is a floor model or customer return....Fry's for instance will sell the display due to no inventory, replace it with a customer return that then becomes the display..etc etc

Besides that...I cant imagine that the large retailers dont get an allowance that pays for a display or two on their showroom floor from all the manufacturers

The prices on the Panasonic models...especially the VT are falling rapidly...so it doesnt surprise me that you got a very good deal
I would imagine that even better deals are going to be out there in the next 30-60 days on Pansonic plasmas due to their discontinuation

If you recall..when Pioneer left the business there were ample units available for 50% off MSRP...and even lower( for displays at Magnolia) a few months after they were discontinued

I didnt say BB doesnt have good deals......I think the Magnolia area, in general, sells above market pricing. However...when something is discontinued after a period they sell it for a crazy price
Two examples being a couple of receivers I bought this past week...65-75% off retail....another would be those Sharp Elite LED's

I was told by BB manager this week that the free customer delivery they are providing on large TVs is covered by the TV manufacturers

There are so many "back end" deals in retail...for instance on those receivers did BB have a buy back clause that said the manufacturer had to take them back if they didnt sell
Then a year later the manufacturer just gives them a rebate so BB can blow them out vs take them back. I have heard that scenario as well with retailers and inventory that has a guaranteed sale clause from the manufacturer

I think Walmart revolutionized that concept...and a good reason why they are the largest retailer out these and lead the market( in volume) in many areas of consumers good...Groceries and toys being two of them ...I bet they do a "little" in electronics $$ as well


Warren

I agree with you 100 percent on all of that. Especially the back end deals part.

Unfortunately, the ultimate effect of all of this seems to be the continual dumbing down of the electronics in general. Those Elite receivers you're talking about are such a departure from the 2002 model VSX-49TX I have right now. It's SO solid and has so much dynamic range and headroom even being completely outdated in terms of HDMI and decoding formats, that it still serves as an incredible 2 channel amp OR a bi-amped setup using its back channels for the bi amp setup. It has a lot of copper components in the chassis and was made in Japan, I love it. By contrast, I see that now you walk into Magnolia and there is literally a 400.00 "Elite" receiver that looks as though it came out of a Cracker Jack box. I could lift the whole thing with my pinky finger. Even the top of the line SC-75 (the stores don't seem to carry the SC-79 for display) has clear evidence of cost cutting throughout.

So in the end all these back channel deals go hand in hand with ever cheapened products, and consumers of course demand the wal mart inspired price factor on everything now. The result, the Pioneer and Panasonic plasma divisions are dead and we're left with a boat-load of half-assed LCDs that start at hilarious MSRPs and then rapidly fall to half their original sticker price making it seem like a tremendous deal. I hope OLED doesn't fall victim to this mentality and leave us back at square one with LCD all over again.
post #340 of 701
When I was Retailing, we oft got 50% Off for the Demo. (Please note: Not all Brands and/or Models.)
This then had a quantity, and usually a time frame. Example - 1 demo per quarter of each Model. On some, even better % off if they were trying to get something New going!
post #341 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I do think you are speculating a bit on Samsung's total volume

You might know BB volume's and their estimated market share ...key word.."estimated"...as it would make total sense that you would

As for the Samsung totals of this volume of this model...you are estimating /speculating



On another note...a few interesting things I have seen in the last few days


In Dallas/Fort Worth...Magnolia pricing on the 64F8500 went UP $200!!...ok>>>LOL.....rolleyes.gif

it seems Magnolia is about "giving away" some Yamaha and Pioneer elite receivers right now....I bought a couple in the last few days at 65-75% off retail( 2012 leftover models)...and then there was a free gift card involved as well with purchase

All year long they were sold...as I mentioned before....at , or about MSRP and above market pricing

oh well...I guess timing is everything


Warren

There is industry data available to retailers that lists marketshare by model. Pairing that with internal data you can back into some pretty accurate estimates. But yes, they are all estimates.


Regarding the Samsung F8500 prices, yes the went up when the BF savings ended. Sale prices do expire sometimes. They also went back down again pre-Christmas. What's your point?
post #342 of 701
Can we get this thread back on track and stop discussing business models and profit margins? Lets keep it focused on F8500 pricing/deals.
post #343 of 701
I can get one from conns for $1797 but need it shipped to IL. I can arrange trucking just not packaging and they don't have original box on their display model. Dang
post #344 of 701
Found about a dozen brand new 60" F8500's from a reputable seller on eBay.

The price is $1,625.57 with free shipping. I picked one up about an hour ago and there is only a few left smile.gif

eBay item number: 121236092299

Was toying with the idea of buying the Vt60 or f8500 for the last week but at this price it was a no-brainer.
post #345 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

Found about a dozen brand new 60" F8500's from a reputable seller on eBay.

The price is $1,625.57 with free shipping. I picked one up about an hour ago and there is only a few left smile.gif

eBay item number: 121236092299

Was toying with the idea of buying the Vt60 or f8500 for the last week but at this price it was a no-brainer.

Looks like someone went shopping at Conn's...
post #346 of 701
I thought Conn's only had the display models and open box items this cheap?
post #347 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

I thought Conn's only had the display models and open box items this cheap?

They had NIB as well.
post #348 of 701
I have been hanging out in the VT/ZT threads too long, getting caught up on this thread now smile.gif

Seems like this deal would be about the same as if purchased from the previous Conn's deal "$1,497 + tax. "
post #349 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

I have been hanging out in the VT/ZT threads too long, getting caught up on this thread now smile.gif

Seems like this deal would be about the same as if purchased from the previous Conn's deal "$1,497 + tax. "

Yeah, if they got them from Conn's they obviously negotiated an even better deal because this wouldn't even be worth the trouble at that price. Probably bought em for 1000-1100.00 each.
post #350 of 701
Anyone know how soon superbowl sales on TVs start?
post #351 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post


Regarding the Samsung F8500 prices, yes the went up when the BF savings ended. Sale prices do expire sometimes. They also went back down again pre-Christmas. What's your point?

I only saw them rise at Magnolia...that is my point


Warren
post #352 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I only saw them rise at Magnolia...that is my point


Warren

Well I can tell you that it was a national price increase, or rather the end of a national promo. So they didn't just change at Best Buy.
post #353 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

I agree with you 100 percent on all of that. Especially the back end deals part.

Unfortunately, the ultimate effect of all of this seems to be the continual dumbing down of the electronics in general. Those Elite receivers you're talking about are such a departure from the 2002 model VSX-49TX I have right now. It's SO solid and has so much dynamic range and headroom even being completely outdated in terms of HDMI and decoding formats, that it still serves as an incredible 2 channel amp OR a bi-amped setup using its back channels for the bi amp setup. It has a lot of copper components in the chassis and was made in Japan, I love it. By contrast, I see that now you walk into Magnolia and there is literally a 400.00 "Elite" receiver that looks as though it came out of a Cracker Jack box. I could lift the whole thing with my pinky finger. Even the top of the line SC-75 (the stores don't seem to carry the SC-79 for display) has clear evidence of cost cutting throughout.

So in the end all these back channel deals go hand in hand with ever cheapened products, and consumers of course demand the wal mart inspired price factor on everything now. The result, the Pioneer and Panasonic plasma divisions are dead and we're left with a boat-load of half-assed LCDs that start at hilarious MSRPs and then rapidly fall to half their original sticker price making it seem like a tremendous deal. I hope OLED doesn't fall victim to this mentality and leave us back at square one with LCD all over again.

lol....I actually have a Pioneer Elite VSX47TX that i bought on Ebay like 4-5 years ago for $180....I think the manufacture date on the back is 2003(?)

So...yes..I know what you mean about some of those old school receivers being built like a tank....copper plating et al....and 2 channel music..IMO..is incredible on that unit

I think the VSX47Tx had an MSRP of $3000....which means if Magnolia had had it would have been priced at around $3000...lol...wink.gif

I dont know what the market price of the unit was though...just like many things some items of those old flagship receivers were blown out at the end of their model year...I recall newegg selling the Yamaha Z-11 for $1700( $5400 MSRP) at the end of its life

In the digital world that we now live in ...monster amp capability and superior build quality are not that important.......umpteen features are

Its about price....and a lower one at that
While value per $$ is much higher that it was a decade ago..the overall build quality has suffered. When I look at my SC37 compared to its newer counterparts..most recently the SC57 I had. The SC57 didnt compare in build quality and IMO sound either...so it was sold in 3 weeks

But anyway...back to the Samsung TV

The Conn's salesman told me they losing a few hundred dollars on each one of these they sold...I didnt say anything and thought.."who cares"...and thought there was some numbers that upper management knew about that he wasnt privy to in the setting of these prices of the F8500

Thats why when I see these "deals" where the salesman says they are losing money...I question it

By the way...the F8500 is a stellar TV...I sat it in the same room as the E8000 and there is a definite improvement. The E8000 has been calibrated and F8500 was just in movie mode

cant wait to get the F8500 calibrated and see

Warren
post #354 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

Yeah, if they got them from Conn's they obviously negotiated an even better deal because this wouldn't even be worth the trouble at that price. Probably bought em for 1000-1100.00 each.

You think dealers make 35% on these? Not a chance in most cases. There is no way they got them for that price. Not worth the trouble at $200-$300 profit for each one sold? I beg to differ.
post #355 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

Well I can tell you that it was a national price increase, or rather the end of a national promo. So they didn't just change at Best Buy.

interesting

I guess the other retailers I saw absorbed the price increase

btw...Fry's in the Dallas market has the F8500 as well and price didnt change...........hyperbole?..lol....rolleyes.gif


Warren
post #356 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

You think dealers make 35% on these? Not a chance in most cases. There is no way they got them for that price. Not worth the trouble at $200-$300 profit for each one sold? I beg to differ.

as I said before I saw some paperwork that my sales had that stated at the $3199 the TV had 26% GP in it
if I were a betting man I would say there was more in it than that. Management had probably already padded that already with "internal" costs and/or didnt show any sales incentive from Samsung, paid to Conn's

I really doubt you know...all in ....what the retailers are making...how could you?
because that means you would to know about all the back end rebates and sales incentives given from the manufacturer

But...again...as I have said before

as a consumer who cares?


Warren
post #357 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

as I said before I saw some paperwork that my sales had that stated at the $3199 the TV had 26% GP in it
if I were a betting man I would say there was more in it than that. Management had probably already padded that already with "internal" costs and/or didnt show any sales incentive from Samsung, paid to Conn's

I really doubt you know...all in ....what the retailers are making...how could you?
because that means you would to know about all the back end rebates and sales incentives given from the manufacturer

But...again...as I have said before

as a consumer who cares?


Warren

As I've said before. I am aware of all the back-end rebates and sales incentives.
post #358 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strjock81 View Post

I can get one from conns for $1797 but need it shipped to IL. I can arrange trucking just not packaging and they don't have original box on their display model. Dang

they actually packaged mine and put it in a box that was originally for a Samsung 65" F8000 LED....though the 64F8500 seemed to fit perfectly

somewhat of a moot point though since I was driving it back to Indiana and I had to actually have them remove the outer packaging( and the stand) to get the panel to fit between the space between my front and rear seat


Warren
post #359 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

As I've said before. I am aware of all the back-end rebates and sales incentives.

great
so now you understand that what you suggested as possible "hyperbole" is really not accurate

and on another. note
I had another great "price match" experience this morning

I saw that Superman blu ray 3d combo pack was on sale at fry's for about 50% off the BB price

For that price I thought I would bite

I called BB for a price match.....was told that they could not because the item on BB's website didnt have 'Low price guarantee" logo stated above the price
Was told they only price match items that have "low price guarantee" and that certain items will not not be price matched..no matter if all of the other "lengthy" terms and conditions apply

I thought ..really....rolleyes.gif

Oh well..hung up and ordered it from fry's and done deal 3 mouse clicks later

Warren
post #360 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

great
so now you understand that what you suggested as possible "hyperbole" is really not accurate

and on another. note
I had another great "price match" experience this morning

I saw that Superman blu ray 3d combo pack was on sale at fry's for about 50% off the BB price

For that price I thought I would bite

I called BB for a price match.....was told that they could not because the item on BB's website didnt have 'Low price guarantee" logo stated above the price
Was told they only price match items that have "low price guarantee" and that certain items will not not be price matched..no matter if all of the other "lengthy" terms and conditions apply

I thought ..really....rolleyes.gif

Oh well..hung up and ordered it from fry's and done deal 3 mouse clicks later

Warren

Cool story bro...cool.gif
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