or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Screens › DIY Screen Section › Need Help: Epson 8350 w/ Sintra at 120" x 60"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Need Help: Epson 8350 w/ Sintra at 120" x 60"

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Greetings,

I have an 8350 in an offwhite 17'x 15' dedicated theater room blackedout to near total darkness. I watch movies and game it out, and am buying said sintra board tomorrow. I am pretty amazed by the picture quality on a a lightly textured wall, but am wondering how much difference I will notice with a sintra screen painted with the paint blend recommended on these boards. Is it night and day, or incremental? I guess I'm asking if its worth doing.

Any paint choices jump out based on my specs?

I should add that I have facilities and professional spray guns/manpower at my disposal. Does 120" x 60" sound doable for the space and pj type? Any general advice for a novice screen builder with the above specs would be greatly appreciated.


One more note: I initially wanted to just paint the wall directly and bypass the screen option altogether, but was worried about the lack of perfect smoothness due to basic wall texturing. I didn't want to sand it down. Is the process of prepping a wall like mine arduous? The Sintra screen is only $125.
Edited by RileyMartin - 5/8/13 at 5:52pm
post #2 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RileyMartin View Post

Greetings,

I have an 8350 in an offwhite 17'x 15' dedicated theater room blackedout to near total darkness. I watch movies and game it out, and am buying said sintra board tomorrow. I am pretty amazed by the picture quality on a a lightly textured wall, but am wondering how much difference I will notice with a sintra screen painted with the paint blend recommended on these boards. Is it night and day, or incremental? I guess I'm asking if its worth doing.

Absewlootlee there is a difference. Even using a simpler advanced Mix like RS-MaxxMudd will improve the perception of Blacks, provide deeper and more enriched colors, and basically make the 8350's already great 110" images look like they come from a 65" LED TV.
Quote:
Any paint choices jump out based on my specs?

1st choice: Silver Fire v2.5 2.0
2nd choice: RS-MaxxMudd (standard)
3rd choice: A Neutral Gray Interior Flat Enamel of 8.5 Munsell

(...the latter being acceptable, but sorta a "Kissin' yur Sis" choice...)
Quote:
I should add that I have facilities and professional spray guns/manpower at my disposal.

That's great. The more advanced Mixes are by nature very thin, and go on much like a Clear Coat or Varnish. There are some differences though, so one you get to that point, be sure to review paint technique and ask any pertinent Q's .
Quote:
Does 120" x 60" sound doable for the space and pj type? Any general advice for a novice screen builder with the above specs would be greatly appreciated.

Have the sheet cut to 106" long to achieve a 122" diagonal 16:9 image
If this is to be semi-permanent, then gluing the Sintra to the wall using a Elastomeric (water based) Adhesive (Power Grab works well) is the best way to get'ter dun. Miter-Cornered Velvet wrapped Trim is then butted up to the outside edges.

Another method that does not require much gluing is this: Have the Sintra cut to 60" x 104" (114" diagonal) and install the Sintra by applying some adhesive directly in the middle 1/3rd of the sheet, and then screw the perimeter down using coarse threaded Drywall screws. (1-5/8") You don't need to hit a Stud with every screw....just a few, but only hand tighten any screws that do not sink into wood.

Trim is then over layered 2" into the Sintra all around to give you the 100" x 56" central area.
Quote:
One more note: I initially wanted to just paint the wall directly and bypass the screen option altogether, but was worried about the lack of perfect smoothness due to basic wall texture. I didn't want to sand it down. Is the process of prepping a wall like mine arduous? The Sintra screen is only $125.

Arduous? Not at all, especially if you have any familiarity using Drywall compond and Mud Blades. If the Texture is just very slight due to paint induced variations, them just a like skimming of Mud within a marked of / taped off area, followed by a light and even sanding and "sprayed" priming will result in every bit as good a surface as anything can be short of ultra smooth Plastic or Glass.

Use a 12" Blade. Apply the Mud in a sweeping motion...get the surface covered lightly, then once...only once, lightly scrape the wall holding the Blade at 45 degrees. That should fill in any depressions left after you have at first lightly sanded off the top peaks before you started skimming.

Use a 8" x 3" x 1" Medium / Fine Combo Sanding Sponge for the sanding chore. Medium to knock down the initial bumps of texture....Fine to smooth the Skim coating. All sanding is done using light, not aggressive strokes, and is done in long sweeping arcs.

I personally use a wall whenever I can....it give a greater degree of satisfaction to see a surface like that transform into a High Definition Screen. cool.gif
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much for your thoroughly considered reply. I'm blown away, really.

I'm going to go with your advice and use the wall. Does your paint recommendation stand or was that specifically for the Sintra application?

Also, your post implies that 110" might be optimal screen size for the 8350? Is this correct? I play games as well, and am wondering if this impacts screen size choice.

I called Carl at CP a few days ago, when I started this screen hunt, and he recommended I get in touch with you via the AVS boards. I thought, " how will I get in touch with complete stranger on a board I've never been to..." Lol.
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RileyMartin View Post

Thanks so much for your thoroughly considered reply. I'm blown away, really.

I'm going to go with your advice and use the wall. Does your paint recommendation stand or was that specifically for the Sintra application?

Either or......the wall just happens to be the epitome' of DIY'ism.
Quote:
Also, your post implies that 110" might be optimal screen size for the 8350? Is this correct? I play games as well, and am wondering if this impacts screen size choice.

Sorry, that blurb seems to have come from some other gray place I was thinking about. You'll note the two sizes I expounded on in depth....were 114" and 122", dependent upon how you choose to mount the Sintra. As a Gamer...bigger /biggest screen possible, while maintaining clarity, depth and a high response speed, all work to the advantage of the Gamer. Someone peeking around the corner at a distance become "in your face" at 130" diagonal and you standing a at distance where the Screen virtually fills the area ahead almost out to the limits of your peripheral vision.

Since the 8350 is not a short throw PJ, the bigger the image is, the further away you must stand when gaming...dependent upon how high the PJ is mounted and how high the top / bottom of the Screen's edges are.

Suppose you made up a 110"er (54" x 96") . I don't know how high a ceiling you have, but I'll take a worst case scenario (hopefully) and use 8' to start. You hang the PJ at a 11' 3" throw. The Len's top edge (inverted) is at 10" down from the ceiling. So is the top edge of the Screen. That places the bottom edge of the screen 32" off the floor.

Just a little math that triangulates the PJ's beam shows that at the suggested placement you can stand just 5' in front of a 8' wide screen if your under 6' 2" and not cut the PJ's beam with your head. That is serious close, and you would be totally immersed.

9' ceiling. Same placement, even better "up close" action.

The only caveat being that with the top of the screen so close to the ceiling, it would be best to have a ceiling that is a darker, non reflective color. (...it does NOT need to be Black...yeeech...)

The wall's ability to give you the size image you want far exceeds that of any solid substrate. Avail yourself of it if you can!
Quote:
I called Carl at CP a few days ago, when I started this screen hunt, and he recommended I get in touch with you via the AVS boards. I thought, " how will I get in touch with complete stranger on a board I've never been to..." Lol.

Carl is an avowed advocate of DIY Screen making. Recently we spoke about AVS and the drive to keep DIY screen making limited to non-mfg screen materials. Most of what Carl sells fits that description, it's only the "for sale" part this Forum takes umbrage with. It's a tricky, slippery slope that must be tread...and not always understood or appreciated by those who feel anything they buy and assemble is DIY'ing.

I'm bettin' we'll see Carl's Place become a AVS sponsor sometime sooner than later.
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
greetings MM and AVS enthusiasts,

Picked up a 120"x60" Sintra board today, and am gearing up to buy the ingredients for the Silver v2.5 2.0 paint 2morrow. I was leaning towards sanding/painting, but was convinced that the Sintra, which can be painted offsite, was a more appropriate choice, at least for the time being.

Per your last reply MM, my apologies for the lack of specificity regarding my room dimensions. The ceiling height is one inch under 10ft. This feeds into a question I've been mulling, which is whether or not to ceiling mount the projector. I bought a decent mount, but read that it's better to have the pj as close to dead on straight as possible. The reason I'm considering a ceiling mount is of course to allow seating further towards the rear of the room to max out screen size ( or at least allow the option for adjusting where to sit). Considering that I will use the space primarily for movies and games with the board size and room size and pj type/ability, would you recommend reducing/altering the Sintra? Sorry to sound thick, I'm pretty sure you said that 133" will work, but I don't want to sacrifice quality for size and am willing to compromise to that end. What you said about a 110" image resembling a 65" LED image is mouth-watering, but like you also said, seeing gaming elements supersized is priceless.

Thanks in advance, can't wait to paint and hang the screen.
post #6 of 20
RileyMartin,

OK...Brass Tacks time. You've just opened up the Goodie bag, Brother! Size and placement just became non-issues. 122" Diagonal! 60" x 106"! We gonna share the Love here ! biggrin.gif

Your circumstances could not be better. Place the PJ at the minimal throw I'm suggesting (12' 6" inverted - Ceiling Mounted) with the top of the lens at 9' from the ceiling spot on.

Now you simply turn the bugger on and play with it, moving the image down a bit...or a lot...or leaving the top of the image at 9'.

The latter 4-shur if you do want 122" and a Gamer's delight. The bottom of the screen's bottom edge will now be at 49" off the floor. You can dance in front of that screen, and it will be observable from anywhere in the room at 122" diagonal. Seating can be at 13' -15', leaving you plenty of dancin' about space between the Wall and any seating.

You can feel free to use the vertical lens shift and adjust the bottom edge of the screen down into the low "40's" or even the high "30's" to see how that works. A very small amount will not adversely affect anything...it's when you reach 50%+ things start to go south.

To all that effect, once you have finally settled on a screen position, ( ...and made sure your image is not trapezoidal in any way...) you tape off an area 2" beyond the Screen's "observable" area (64"x 121"), Hang the Sintra squared within that area, mask off the rest of the area / room, and getta' squirtin'.cool.gif

(...don't fergit ta "Bag" the Projector ! eek.gif )

Ahhhhh...but? What Mount did you get, the one you consider "decent"? I can only hope a Chief "Projector Specific" RPA 168?


BTW...if you go down to 110" things just get better....the screen can be proportionately lower while still being ideally placed, the image will be even brighter and more "contrasty"....it's still "All Gud".''

.........septin' if ya go 110" diagonal, it will also be even easier to hang the screen.
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Several reviews pointed to the atdec telehook (TH-WH-PJ-FM). It was reasonable and well reviewed as far as working with the 8350. I haven't opened it yet, but its distance from ceiling is 5". As I won't be using it until I paint the Sintra, I can exchange it if it makes a huge difference. Also, you suggest 133" diag, but I have only have 60" h, so I will reduce accordingly.

Thanks so much for the throw specs, they are exactly what I was wondering about. For movies, would you manually reduce the picture size, or leave it at max size? ( I guess I'm asking if one size fits all...)
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RileyMartin View Post

Several reviews pointed to the atdec telehook (TH-WH-PJ-FM). It was reasonable and well reviewed as far as working with the 8350. I haven't opened it yet, but its distance from ceiling is 5". As I won't be using it until I paint the Sintra, I can exchange it if it makes a huge difference. Also, you suggest 133" diag, but I have only have 60" h, so I will reduce accordingly.

Thanks so much for the throw specs, they are exactly what I was wondering about. For movies, would you manually reduce the picture size, or leave it at max size?

It will serve you well no matter what your content.

Let me check on that Mount, but I seriously doubt it could be as good as, let alone better than the Chief'ster.

I probably have installed over a hundred PJs over the last 7 years since I started using the Chief RPAs and lemmie tell ya sumpthin'....iffin' they were not the best Mount going for the money spent and effort saved...plus able to provide dependable performance throughout....I would not use 'em at all.

But we'll see. I can always be taught.......ask my Wife.

Edit:
BUT NOT THIS TIME !!!
That didn't take long. Gaaaa.....Cro Magon tech! Abysmal looks.
You will WANT the Chief now...once you know what it is and can provide. Total adjust-ability....all Cables and Electrical hidden....30 second take down / put up.....never loses it's Pitch / Yaw settings once locked in....no matter how many times the PJ is removed / re-installed.
post #9 of 20
A sampling of Chief RPA 168 Epson Dedicated Mount w/8350s in attendance.









Hey Riley...does somebody gotta drop a Bomb on ya? Listen to this Guy, it would be best.



tongue.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
I hear ya, loud and clear. Thanks for the pics. Only reason I happened to buy the atdec was because it was the best reviewed mount under $100 (well under), and of course, because I hadn't found this awesome board yet.

I will return this average mount and exchange it for the Chief.
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RileyMartin View Post

I hear ya, loud and clear. Thanks for the pics. Only reason I happened to buy the atdec was because it was the best reviewed mount under $100 (well under), and of course, because I hadn't found this awesome board yet.

I will return this average mount and exchange it for the Chief.

A stitch in time saves nine.....or in this case, a quick rip and stitch replacement.

Call Kirk @ Projector People (ext. 2002) and tell him "MississippiMan" sent'cha over to get a Chief RPA-168 for a 8350. He will hook ya up with a lowest possible price. And free Ground Freight too!

BTW, if you want the best Ceiling Interface Plate, ask him for the Peerless ACC570 Round Ceiling Plate.($20.00) It has a 1/5" NPT Threaded Hole so you can use a short Threaded 8" Steel Nipple, or a PVC Pipe with two Male Couplings and make it look great. If you have Attic Access above the PJ, you can even pass a PVC Pipe through a 1.65" Hole and make a seamless installation like shown in my last image. Just ask me about how the install is done and ye shall receive tutelage.

This is a case where both looks and utility are combined. It's no "Flea-Bay" item...or priced accordingly...but well worth the modest premium paid to get what amounts to being a ideal piece of gear.
Edited by MississippiMan - 5/31/13 at 11:11pm
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
I've decided to paint the walls (and possibly the ceiling) of the room. Any advice on the beset type of paint to achieve the best results in terms of the image on the screen. Does color choice matter? Im thinking something from the purple family, softened perhaps.

what do you think?
post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Do I need to prime the Sintra? I didn't see any instructions concerning that in the Silver Fire thread...
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RileyMartin View Post

Do I need to prime the Sintra? I didn't see any instructions concerning that in the Silver Fire thread...

No....unless the surface is blemished.
post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
Update:

dear Mississppi Man,

Thanks so much for your input. After weighing all the options I chose to buy screen material (da-lite) from a well respected online seller, and have to say you were absolutely right when you said a 120" image could pop like an led tv. Built a frame and then stretched the material, then mounted, all for about $120 plus an hour or so to build the frame.

Enthusiasts like yourself save noobs like me tons of time and money. Thanks again.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RileyMartin View Post

Update:

dear Mississppi Man,

Thanks so much for your input. After weighing all the options I chose to buy screen material (da-lite) from a well respected online seller, and have to say you were absolutely right when you said a 120" image could pop like an led tv.
Enthusiasts like yourself save noobs like me tons of time and money. Thanks again.

Your welcome fur shur!

BTW, be careful who you say / where you say things like "It looks better'n LED!"

Some will call you a liar....a dissimulator of false information. They will say you simply don't enough to know any better.

Flee the controversy and go watch something that has real entertainment worthiness. And laugh at those with puny 65" TVs.

I do. wink.gif
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hey Mississippi Man!

Can't find "kirk". There is a projector central in portola, ca, but no luck there. Trying to find him so I can purchase a Chief RPA 168

Thanx in advance
post #18 of 20
I'm sorry....I meant to say "Projector People". All other info is correct.
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
Mississippi Man,

Just finished ceiling mounting my Epson 8350 using the specs from Epson's calculator. It suggested a 16' throw for a 120" diag image. However, I am fretting over whether to shorten the throw to 14' to increase brightness. I have manually moved the projector back and forth between the two distances, but it's hard to tell without seeing them side to side.

Do you think it's worth it to redo the ceiling mount two feet forward? Will there be a measurable difference, considering there is no ambient light intruding and I have a decent da-lite screen?

Thanx in advance.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RileyMartin View Post

Mississippi Man,

Just finished ceiling mounting my Epson 8350 using the specs from Epson's calculator. It suggested a 16' throw for a 120" diag image. However, I am fretting over whether to shorten the throw to 14' to increase brightness. I have manually moved the projector back and forth between the two distances, but it's hard to tell without seeing them side to side.

Do you think it's worth it to redo the ceiling mount two feet forward? Will there be a measurable difference, considering there is no ambient light intruding and I have a decent da-lite screen?

Thanx in advance.

Personally, iffin' it were me, I would always choose the shortest possible Throw distance...which in this case would be 12' - 3". If that can be accommodated the the difference in Lumen output would in fact be quite significant. 21' fls vs 14 fls.

With the 8350 (...a favorite PJ for me since it's introduction...) achieving the best Black Levels is tied directly to it's being calibrated in Cinema Mode and on Low Lamp.By your starting out with the highest possible Lumen output, the drop in light output that comes with such calibration will not as grossly affect the "PoP" factor you want in such a large image.

Absolutely, having complete light control is a huge advantage, but some years of experience have shown me that while many state "I have complete control of Light in my Theater", only a very small percentage actually exercise that control at all times. While others, who do have "Black-out" capability don't have room colors that prevent reflected light of room surfaces from creating significant performance issues.

So to achieve a best case scenario, it''s wisest to optimize the relationship between Screen size/color and PJ output, withe the effect the room's surfaces have. Nail down all those criteria and the results can be far over the top of any expectations you had going in.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Screen Section
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Screens › DIY Screen Section › Need Help: Epson 8350 w/ Sintra at 120" x 60"