or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Subwoofer noob, $400 budget, single, dual??
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Subwoofer noob, $400 budget, single, dual?? - Page 6

post #151 of 182
Thread Starter 
Against the better judgment of my fellow bass lovers, I think I will go for the bic f12. If I don't like, then I will pass the klipsch and go straight to the big boys, hsu svs outlaw psa or rythmik.

I'm just not feeling it with the klipsch for some reason. Maybe the price is getting closer to other subs that I really want.
post #152 of 182
Quote:
Maybe the price is getting closer to other subs that I really want.

Yeah I agree with you there. Hope you enjoy your Bic.. Peace
post #153 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

Against the better judgment of my fellow bass lovers, I think I will go for the bic f12. If I don't like, then I will pass the klipsch and go straight to the big boys, hsu svs outlaw psa or rythmik.

I'm just not feeling it with the klipsch for some reason. Maybe the price is getting closer to other subs that I really want.
Enjoy!
post #154 of 182
So I might be about to jump on dual rw-12d's, but I just came across a deal for Velodyne VDR-12's (a pair for $500). Anyone know anything about these??
post #155 of 182
Thread Starter 
OMG, don't mention new subs, it's going to make me start researching again. biggrin.gif

Oh, that's probably used.
post #156 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

So I might be about to jump on dual rw-12d's, but I just came across a deal for Velodyne VDR-12's (a pair for $500). Anyone know anything about these??
You have been around long enough to know that the proper thing to do would be to start your own thread.
post #157 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

OMG, don't mention new subs, it's going to make me start researching again. biggrin.gif

Oh, that's probably used.

Nope, brand new. Look on the last page of the Velodyne thread on here

http://velodyne.com/vdr-12-subwoofer-refurbished.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You have been around long enough to know that the proper thing to do would be to start your own thread.

I could, but when the OP is literally looking for the exact same thing I am...it could be helpful for both and less clutter for the forums. I've been around on multiple forums long enough to know I HAAATE when people constantly bring up the same thing in separate threads. Especially when both are on the front page
post #158 of 182
Thread Starter 
Oh noo, i have to research now. Welcome to my thread of mass confusion with subwoofers. LOL.
post #159 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

I could, but when the OP is literally looking for the exact same thing I am...it could be helpful for both and less clutter for the forums. I've been around on multiple forums long enough to know I HAAATE when people constantly bring up the same thing in separate threads. Especially when both are on the front page
I see your point.
post #160 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

I'm just not feeling it with the klipsch for some reason. Maybe the price is getting closer to other subs that I really want.

That's because, deep down inside, you know you want more so you buy less and then you won't feel guilty about having to upgrade to better. tongue.gif

Before buying a F-12, please, reconsider and at minimum, buy a SVS, SB-12 NSD. If the budget is there, don't buy backwards because in the end, we all wish we had been more forward thinking when we were able to.

After the packing material is thrown away, nobody every says: boy, I'm so happy I bought this piece of......eek.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 5/17/13 at 8:37pm
post #161 of 182
Thread Starter 
I think you may be right. I know I want more, but trying to get by with less with the bic f12.

The only problem is being so inexperienced, I don't know what I want exactly. But I have a feeling that I will be itching to try multiple subs eventually. That is why, if I go too expensive for single sub, it is gonna cost a fortune to get duals.
post #162 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

I think you may be right. I know I want more, but trying to get by with less with the bic f12.

The only problem is being so inexperienced, I don't know what I want exactly. But I have a feeling that I will be itching to try multiple subs eventually. That is why, if I go too expensive for single sub, it is gonna cost a fortune to get duals.

First base.

It doesn't end and if you go on the cheap, you'll hate what you get. There is no exit door as there are only windows with a door and on the other side of each window is a little clown, complete with red rubber nose and muti-colored hair, holding a sign that reads....."You Lose!" Honk, honk.

The only proper response, is to give into the reality of the force and for it, you'll be glad you did.

Just so you know, I've spent a $1,000.00 over the last six months, working with subs, replacement drivers, measuring programs and EQ's (exploring the issue) so as to simply buy a clue......and nothing more. What I'm sharing is based on the experience of this lab work. Here's what I found:

1. Four subs is better than three subs and don't even think of settling on two subs as the room doesn't come alive until the addition of the third subwoofer..

2. Budgets should at minimum, represent three (maybe even four) times what one considers to be a rational budget.

1. If one can budget for only one sub at a time, so be it and when budgeting, budget for one "QUALITY" sub, and nothing less. Later, when the next tax return comes in, buy a second with the eye on a third or forth sub. And in the meantime, don't forget to download a freeware copy of REW, buy a measuring microphone and see what's what with what regarding you and your subwoofer sound reproduction system.

3. If the WAF is a powerful force indeed, then in counterance, man should invoke the force of whine, sigh and moping until out of love, the WAF capitulates. It's about getting what you want, powerful subwoofer sound. She can have the purses, walk-in closet and shoes......I want the sound.

4. Always go with the best one can afford and if necessary, a bit more.

Jon Bon-Jovi...."It's My Life."

In my opinion, forgive me for my pushiness, of what's been discusses, the SVS, SB-12 NSD will much better serve you and your stated budget than a F-12. Not knowing where your next listening room is going be, I can't say what direction to go in so as to buy and compliment the best sub for your next listening position.

In the end think the Eagles and "Hotel California." and make a choice, what's your poison going be as subwoofer sound is healthy for a man's soul.

....cool.gif

(from here, I'm repeating myself)


-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 5/18/13 at 6:42am
post #163 of 182
Wow, room doesn't come alive until you get three subs? I'm a proponent of multi sub setups as well, but that is off. The priority should be a even frequency response across the listening positions. It doesn't matter how many subs it takes to achieve that. There are circumstances where that can be achieved with one sub. You have to take into account how important even bass is as well to the prospective buyer. Some people just want a bit of bass to shore up the lower octaves in their bass guitar music, others just want some boom in their explosions. You don't even necessarily need en even frequency response to achieve either.
post #164 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Wow, room doesn't come alive until you get three subs? I'm a proponent of multi sub setups as well, but that is off.

I know but what can I say as that's what it took. The response is even except for a third of an octave null between 71Hz and 95Hz that's 4dB deep. Other than that, using upgraded, eighteen year old, 12" subwoofers with upgraded drivers and radiators, it's +/-3 dB flat from 22Hz to >120Hz with a nice even roll of on the left side of the graph. Still, the room's response came noticeably alive with the addition of the third subwoofer, a RW-12d over that of the original two subwoofer solution.



Maybe a fourth sub to beat that room related null but I'd like to do some upgrading before trying to beat the noted null into submission.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 5/18/13 at 9:37am
post #165 of 182
Thread Starter 
I know more bigger and more expensive is better with subs. But I'm just having trouble committing that much cash without hearing it first. Add that to the fact that I don't have that much experience, so I don't know what exactly I want. There is great diminishing returns in audio, I just need to find the point where I'll be satisfied. Money doesn't easily part my wallet unless I find value in it. I have never been an impulse buyer.

For now, I'm leaning towards a bic v1220, for the sole reason I can get it shipped to store at WorstBuy. I'm willing to pay a few bucks extra to try without any risk. If WorstBuy had the rw-12d, for a reasonable amount, it would have been ordered already. If they sold the hsu, svs, or rythmik, man it would be really tough not to pull the trigger.

Now, I have to get to researching the bic v1220 to see how it stacks up to the bic f12. I may just order dual v1220's to start.
post #166 of 182
Thread Starter 
I keep thinking I want that extension, but how much content is there between 20-30hz with action movies which is my favorite genre? That is the frequency range I will be missing with the bics.

Man, I'm going to go ahead and cancel my bic f12 for now, think I'll pass on the v1220 too. This is ridiculous.....
Edited by csgamer - 5/18/13 at 11:28am
post #167 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

There is great diminishing returns in audio, I just need to find the point where I'll be satisfied.

What you describe is what I call the esoteric middle, that point between overboard (esoteric) and the point where normal people live but that's not the case in subwoofers as the more time, money and effort one throws at this hobby, for the experience, the smiles just keep on getting bigger.

As to your reasonable doubts, there's no way one can convey the experience, other than to read what others have to say on the matter. As an example, you've not read a single negative about a PSA, XV15 other than to say they wanted more subwoofer. Another thing you'll never read is someone saying they sure wish they had saved their money and bought less subwoofer. These points are telling you what the truth of the matter is; more subwoofer is better then less subwoofer and those who buy less subwoofer are unhappy campers and wish they had more subwoofer. And if you're not able to, read around the different threads and see if you can find someone who says they wish they had less subwoofer and they had spent their money on something else. I don't see any buyer's remorse other then they wished they had bought more.

The point, I'm just saying that your reasonable doubt is causing you to buy down and is going cause you unhappiness. We've all been there and if I'm not posting fact, you can bet everybody here would be all over my comments. See what you can do to find someone who has subwoofers you can listen to so you can experience for yourself what I'm going on about as at this point I'm sure I read like a drug pusher trying to hook an inexperienced (innocent) person on some really good stuff.

Quote:
I keep thinking I want that extension, but how much content is there between 20-30hz with action movies which is my favorite genre? That is the frequency range I will be missing with the bics.

Pretty much, depending on the sound track, content runs all the way down but a minimum target should be a useable 20Hz. With that in mind, as I posted earlier, your room is going be the final arbiter as to what you hear as sound waves fight with each other and support and cancel each other out.

Quote:
This is ridiculous.....

Keeping it positive, it's all about the Benjamins and that's one's budget and what they can get with their budget and yes, easily you'll be able to tell a difference between the BIC and SVS subwoofer output. Yes, you can tell the difference between a Klipsch, RW-12d and a SVS, SB-12 NSD. In my opinion, the least expensive for your room and your stated expectations would be a Rythmik, LV12R.

Other than wanting more, nobody has had an ill thing to comment about the LV12R and those kinds of comments (I want more.) don't seem to stop until one goes to DIY and they build a bunch of crazy, monster boxes that scares jet planes when going overhead.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 5/18/13 at 12:21pm
post #168 of 182
Thread Starter 
Well, I guess the wife made the decision for me. I told her that the subwoofer will be roughly the same size as our large doggie crate and she freaked out.

I guess I'll just go with the bic f12 for now and ease her into getting bigger subs later on if I'm unhappy with the bic. Either that or go with some dual sealed subs to save space, however I don't think output of sealed subs would be good in my room size. Also, I don't see that many sealed sub offerings and they are much more expensive it seems.
post #169 of 182
Quote:
I guess I'll just go with the bic f12 for now and ease her into getting bigger subs later on if I'm unhappy with the bic. Either that or go with some dual sealed subs to save space, however I don't think output of sealed subs would be good in my room size. Also, I don't see that many sealed sub offerings and they are much more expensive it seems.

Oh really! Ok-Ok, you just wait until you fire up that Bic. biggrin.gif
post #170 of 182
Thread Starter 
LMAO, I can just hear it now. "Why so much boom boom, TURN IT DOWN." tongue.gif
post #171 of 182
You asked for advice.. Beeman has taken a lot of time and energy trying to explain things to you. (you know what you know) So I don’t see what more I could ad except my own sub story, but would it really do any good? I think not.
Quote:
LMAO, I can just hear it now. "Why so much boom boom, TURN IT DOWN."

Ha Ha.. Yeah that's what they will say. smile.gif

This is what you really need though.. Is DIY a option?









Can you find the Bic in this pic tongue.gif


Edited by steve nn - 5/18/13 at 6:05pm
post #172 of 182
Thread Starter 
I'm not very handy, so I assume DIY will end up costing more than just buying it built for me. With two jobs, I barely have time too.

Well, if I get a huge sub, pissing off the wife, and sleeping in the living room won't be so bad considering I have a bed there, biggrin.gif
post #173 of 182
This was the last post in the SVS thread. Post 10581 including a few pics. Just saying is all.

Look what arrived Tuesday biggrin.gif

P.S. I have a Bic F12 for sale immediately. wink.gif
post #174 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

I'm not very handy, so I assume DIY will end up costing more than just buying it built for me. With two jobs, I barely have time too.

Well, if I get a huge sub, pissing off the wife, and sleeping in the living room won't be so bad considering I have a bed there, biggrin.gif

....and a good sub! biggrin.gif
post #175 of 182
Quote:
I'm not very handy, so I assume DIY will end up costing more than just buying it built for me. With two jobs, I barely have time too.

Well, if I get a huge sub, pissing off the wife, and sleeping in the living room won't be so bad considering I have a bed there,

The more you spend on DIY the more reasonable it is imo. If a guy was to spend about $500 or so he might as well buy one that is already made considering price to performance. Maybe I should say (might decide) instead of might as well. If the amp is already had, then that can skew things too. A outboard amp can be used over and over again with many different options. Anyway a guy can also build much smaller 12-15 and 18” options with great results.



You could build this 18" option for about $550, that's including amp. Skip the veneer and go paint. Two of them with Q are very nice!

It’s definitely not for everyone though. Tools cost $$ and ofcours time. I admittedly liked building and turnkey.

Yeah love that bed, your all set/ ha ha. Seriously.. Good luck smile.gif

OH! My ex wife of 25 years used to always be mad at me when it came to subs. Once she said me or that sub! She came back at the end of the weekend biggrin.gif
Edited by steve nn - 5/18/13 at 7:29pm
post #176 of 182
Thread Starter 
Yeah, i ordered the bic f12, I will see if it satisfies me. At first, I was feeling kind of bummed since I keep seeing the klipsch rw-12d being mentioned everywhere. But then I started to think, man, the rw-12d doesn't even seem that great. I'm happy now that I cheaped out on the bic f12 because I need something desperately for the meantime and I save some money for a future sub.

Screw 12", I want some 18's, yeahhh buddy. biggrin.gif I keep thinking about DIY builds and thinking how awesome, dual sealed 18" subs would be. I'm thinking sealed is better in my case being a little space challenged with my small listening area.

DIY dual 18's here I come, lol, maybe.....wonder if the wife will notice.
post #177 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

Yeah, i ordered the bic f12,

Congrats on your new acquisition. We eagerly look forward to your first impression comments. smile.gif
post #178 of 182
Thread Starter 
Yeahhhhh buddyyy! Bic f12 in the house, lol. Talk about fast shipping, wow. Damn no time to test, got to get back to work, geez. biggrin.gif

post #179 of 182
Darn those jobs. Looks per-ty. Hope it sounds as good for you as it looks. biggrin.gif
post #180 of 182
Quote:
Yeahhhhh buddyyy! Bic f12 in the house, lol. Talk about fast shipping, wow. Damn no time to test, got to get back to work, geez.
biggrin.gif

Congrats! The heck with work.. it's now up to you to feed us some more subwoofer porn and your assessment cool.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Subwoofer noob, $400 budget, single, dual??