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Which display wins the shootout? Let's have some fun. Make your predictions here. - Page 43

post #1261 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

really

I guess I see them for typically $2-5 more than their 2D only blu ray counterpart

While that is more expensive..
I cant imagine anyone that would buy one of these top shoot out TV's would be bothered by the price difference

Warren
4

Looking through the Best Buy 3D Bluray section and most of them are priced at $40+ a pop. I can get a new release regular bluray for $14-19.99 most of the time, and $30 max for the "super duper directors cut, extended remix, 6 additional hours of footage redux, my mother helped me with the artwork" version...
post #1262 of 1489
That's not right???? They all said the F8500 was better in 3D as it is the only display that does it in full HD. I have no TV preference either. I'm on here trying to figure out which TV to buy come September.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

From what I remember from the shootout on the first night. The Panasonics were better with 3D viewing and the pros preferred them to the F8500.

far as IR,all were said to be very good against it but again the Panasonics were considered better by the pros. Really none of them thought it was a problem on any of the models.

lag is very serious and the main reason I chose the VT60. It affects your play this way: you turn your player to aim up a shot and because of the input lag you over compensate, passing the intended target because your display is showing you the past. It is a major deal to any gamer who cares about how they play. Lag well certainly affect your gameplay, just how much depends on you getting used to it. The ST and F8500 game lag is far too bad for my tastes. I do game a lot online and through the years have learned how important input lag is to me.
post #1263 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

From what I remember from the shootout on the first night. The Panasonics were better with 3D viewing and the pros preferred them to the F8500.

far as IR,all were said to be very good against it but again the Panasonics were considered better by the pros. Really none of them thought it was a problem on any of the models.

lag is very serious and the main reason I chose the VT60. It affects your play this way: you turn your player to aim up a shot and because of the input lag you over compensate, passing the intended target because your display is showing you the past. It is a major deal to any gamer who cares about how they play. Lag well certainly affect your gameplay, just how much depends on you getting used to it. The ST and F8500 game lag is far too bad for my tastes. I do game a lot online and through the years have learned how important input lag is to me.

There was no 3D performance comparison on the first night.
post #1264 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by degobah77 View Post

4

Looking through the Best Buy 3D Bluray section and most of them are priced at $40+ a pop. I can get a new release regular bluray for $14-19.99 most of the time, and $30 max for the "super duper directors cut, extended remix, 6 additional hours of footage redux, my mother helped me with the artwork" version...

well

I generally buy them on sale...so they are only $2-5 more than their 2D counterpart

But I do the same thing for 2D movies....if you look at the BB website there are many 2D that are $25-30

No thanks.....I dont pay retail for a movie( or for a TV..LOL)


you might be a person that pays MSRP


at full retail there is typically a $10 difference


Warren
post #1265 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

There was no 3D performance comparison on the first night.

I was thinking the same thing


nor do I recall them saying the Panasonic was better at IR

generally speaking Samsung has done a better job at IR and anti burn in than Panasonic

I am speaking 2012 and prior...and having both an Samsung E8000 and Panasonic ST50....my Samsung does better and has better 3D than the ST50

though as I said before 3D would not factor into a buying decision for TV


Warren
post #1266 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I was thinking the same thing


nor do I recall them saying the Panasonic was better at IR

generally speaking Samsung has done a better job at IR and anti burn in than Panasonic

I am speaking 2012 and prior...and having both an Samsung E8000 and Panasonic ST50....my Samsung does better and has better 3D than the ST50

though as I said before 3D would not factor into a buying decision for TV


Warren

They did say while it was early, it appeared the Panasonics were a bit better with IR this year. Still, hard to say at this point IMO.
post #1267 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by degobah77 View Post

4

Looking through the Best Buy 3D Bluray section and most of them are priced at $40+ a pop. I can get a new release regular bluray for $14-19.99 most of the time, and $30 max for the "super duper directors cut, extended remix, 6 additional hours of footage redux, my mother helped me with the artwork" version...

well

I generally buy them on sale...so they are only $2-5 more than their 2D counterpart

But I do the same thing for 2D movies....if you look at the BB website there are many 2D that are $25-30

No thanks.....I dont pay retail for a movie( or for a TV..LOL)


you might be a person that pays MSRP


at full retail there is typically a $10 difference


Warren

Aren't you comparing one product that gives you both blurays for 2D and 3D - to one that only gives you the 2D bluray. So in a wierd way its only 2-5$ for the 3D disc....but they bundle it because they know they can scalp us cause we want the 3D disc more than the 2D disc and they want to sell both ?
post #1268 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

well

I generally buy them on sale...so they are only $2-5 more than their 2D counterpart

But I do the same thing for 2D movies....if you look at the BB website there are many 2D that are $25-30

No thanks.....I dont pay retail for a movie( or for a TV..LOL)


you might be a person that pays MSRP


at full retail there is typically a $10 difference


Warren

well

sometimes you just gotta have it and can't wait for a sale.

but no, I generally don't buy everything at full retail price unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

I was actually just thinking about buying one of those IMAX Private Custom Home Theaters, I called them for a price quote, and during the lovely conversation, they found out I have a VT60 and they said it wasn't worth the upgrade.
post #1269 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

They did say while it was early, it appeared the Panasonics were a bit better with IR this year. Still, hard to say at this point IMO.

another splitting hairs issue

unless Samsung got much worse in 2013 vs their 2012 models and ditto for Panasonic

This should not be a reason to choose one TV over another...my panasnic is not as good as my samsung...bot 2012 models

so close though..it would not factor in a buying decision

unless you have extreme issues in use....like this CNET situation

http://asia.cnet.com/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test-62216457.htm

this would be just something else that would not a factor for me


Warren
post #1270 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by degobah77 View Post

well

sometimes you just gotta have it and can't wait for a sale.

but no, I generally don't buy everything at full retail price unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

I was actually just thinking about buying one of those IMAX Private Custom Home Theaters, I called them for a price quote, and during the lovely conversation, they found out I have a VT60 and they said it wasn't worth the upgrade.

LOL....well...I cant say that

I tend to wait it out and go for the crazy closeout price.....that and I live close to a Fry's electronics....smile.gif

I have done pretty well though with both audio and video

Understand though for me...audio and video are of 50/50 importance

so for me..at current market pricing ...for my main TV I would go the ST60 and plug the $1000 savings into the new Marantz 8801 pre/pro that I think I could buy after selling my Onkyo 5508 pre/pro.....smile.gif


Warren
post #1271 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

LOL....well...I cant say that

I tend to wait it out and go for the crazy closeout price.....that and I live close to a Fry's electronics....smile.gif

I have done pretty well though with both audio and video

Understand though for me...audio and video are of 50/50 importance

so for me..at current market pricing ...for my main TV I would go the ST60 and plug the $1000 savings into the new Marantz 8801 pre/pro that I think I could buy after selling my Onkyo 5508 pre/pro.....smile.gif


Warren

very smart thinking and spending..........
post #1272 of 1489
HD Guru's TC-P65ZT60 HDTV Review.

Looks like it probably is capable of being bright enough in Day Mode to suit the requirements of most people.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p65zt60-hdtv-first-review/#more-10462

Excerpt.


"Using our Sencore window test pattern, the TC-P65ZT60 achieved 30.4 ft. lamberts brightness in the THX Cinema Mode and became our default. The THX Bright Room Mode measured 42.3 ft. lamberts, bright enough for almost day environments. The blacks (minimum illumination level) read .0011 ft. lamberts in either mode (this is so low it is scrapping the accuracy of our meter as well as requiring a very dark environment which meant covering up a number of equipment power on lights)"
post #1273 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post


"Using our Sencore window test pattern, the TC-P65ZT60 achieved 30.4 ft. lamberts brightness in the THX Cinema Mode and became our default. The THX Bright Room Mode measured 42.3 ft. lamberts, bright enough for almost day environments. The blacks (minimum illumination level) read .0011 ft. lamberts in either mode (this is so low it is scrapping the accuracy of our meter as well as requiring a very dark environment which meant covering up a number of equipment power on lights)"

Those brightness numbers sound in the universe of the VT50, which is plenty bright most of the time. Obviously, the blacks come out better, so I'd imagine the contrast is quite outstanding on the ZT.

EDIT: Apparently it is...

"The ZT60 creates a contrast ratio of 38,454.54 to 1 in Bright Room Mode and 27,636.26 to 1 in the THX Cinema Mode. We also performed adjustments in the Custom Mode. We obtained a maximum light output of 47.1 ft. lamberts.

Wow. That's just insane.

"The panel’s anti-reflective filter is the best we have ever seen, sucking up ambient room light and creating jet black blacks with very low to medium ambient light conditions. You’ll need to get the room really dark to see any illumination in the blacks.... No filter including the ZT60′s will even remotely kill a lamp or light source directly opposite the screen (and neither will any large screen TVs filter whether it’s on an LED LCD or plasma screen. ...."

Interesting. I experience this "flaw" when we leave one of our lights on. Good to know it's not stoppable regardless of what TV we buy. Well, not really good to know, but reassuring.
post #1274 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

From what I remember from the shootout on the first night. The Panasonics were better with 3D viewing and the pros preferred them to the F8500.

You must have attended a different shootout than I did. I think the 8500 was considered better for 3D.
post #1275 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

HD Guru's TC-P65ZT60 HDTV Review.

Looks like it probably is capable of being bright enough in Day Mode to suit the requirements of most people.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p65zt60-hdtv-first-review/#more-10462

Excerpt.


"Using our Sencore window test pattern, the TC-P65ZT60 achieved 30.4 ft. lamberts brightness in the THX Cinema Mode and became our default. The THX Bright Room Mode measured 42.3 ft. lamberts, bright enough for almost day environments. The blacks (minimum illumination level) read .0011 ft. lamberts in either mode (this is so low it is scrapping the accuracy of our meter as well as requiring a very dark environment which meant covering up a number of equipment power on lights)"
Awesome!
post #1276 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

HD Guru's TC-P65ZT60 HDTV Review.

Looks like it probably is capable of being bright enough in Day Mode to suit the requirements of most people.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p65zt60-hdtv-first-review/#more-10462

Excerpt.


"Using our Sencore window test pattern, the TC-P65ZT60 achieved 30.4 ft. lamberts brightness in the THX Cinema Mode and became our default. The THX Bright Room Mode measured 42.3 ft. lamberts, bright enough for almost day environments. The blacks (minimum illumination level) read .0011 ft. lamberts in either mode (this is so low it is scrapping the accuracy of our meter as well as requiring a very dark environment which meant covering up a number of equipment power on lights)"

This pretty much matches up with what was said by DNice earlier:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472028/which-display-wins-the-shootout-lets-have-some-fun-make-your-predictions-here/570#post_23310359
Quote:
This is not entirely correct. Beyond the ISF modes, Custom and Cinema were checked and showed no improvement compared to the ISF modes. Both THX modes were not checked at the shootout. However, neither would have been used as they inferior to the ISF modes and Cinema/Custom due to the lack of controls to refine the grayscale, gamma and color.

So other modes can be used to get the set brighter, but they may not be accurate.....but if you are not goign to get yur set calibrated this is great news smile.gif since this takes it up a notch for day time viewing smile.gif
post #1277 of 1489
See the vt60 thread. Not only are they accurate in thx cinema, but they are more accurate than the vt50 and all the de's are below 3. Incredible really.
post #1278 of 1489
A little accuracy sacrificed for a bright room doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff to me.
post #1279 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

See the vt60 thread. Not only are they accurate in thx cinema, but they are more accurate than the vt50 and all the de's are below 3. Incredible really.
AFAIK, THX mode only has a 2pt white balance in the service menu and no Color Management System (which is why they didn't use THX mode in the shootout) and ISF has the 10pt white balance and CMS (just like the VT50). In other words, ISF mode has more control over the picture to get the best calibration possible. The VT50 is/was able to get dE below 1 on avg (again, just like the VT60 in ISF mode). Under 3 is typically what calibrators shoot for for all displays. Unless I'm reading your post wrong, there's nothing impressive about dE <3. I can even get my ST50 with just a 2pt system to ~1.52 dE.

edit: just checked the VT60 thread... I'm assuming you're impressed by the out of the box numbers? If so, then I agree.
Edited by rahzel - 5/16/13 at 6:40pm
post #1280 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

See the vt60 thread. Not only are they accurate in thx cinema, but they are more accurate than the vt50 and all the de's are below 3. Incredible really.

Its just another data point maybe the shootout had a bad sample.....maybe robby had an extreemly good sample.....would I take DNice, David and Kevins word over his, most likely yes.....
Edited by Ph8te - 5/16/13 at 6:50pm
post #1281 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

See the vt60 thread. Not only are they accurate in thx cinema, but they are more accurate than the vt50 and all the de's are below 3. Incredible really.

Its jstu anotehr data point maybe the shootout had a bad sample.....maybe robby had an extreemly good sample.....would I take DNice, David and Kevins word over his, most likely yes.....

they didn't touch thx cinema i thought you said - so how's that a conflict?
post #1282 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

See the vt60 thread. Not only are they accurate in thx cinema, but they are more accurate than the vt50 and all the de's are below 3. Incredible really.
AFAIK, THX mode only has a 2pt white balance in the service menu and no Color Management System (which is why they didn't use THX mode in the shootout) and ISF has the 10pt white balance and CMS (just like the VT50). In other words, ISF mode has more control over the picture to get the best calibration possible. The VT50 is/was able to get dE below 1 on avg (again, just like the VT60 in ISF mode). Under 3 is typically what calibrators shoot for for all displays. Unless I'm reading your post wrong, there's nothing impressive about dE <3. I can even get my ST50 with just a 2pt system to ~1.52 dE.

edit: just checked the VT60 thread... I'm assuming you're impressed by the out of the box numbers? If so, then I agree.

yup, out of the box THX - looks like they wouldn't even need to touch it since Im pretty sure average people can't actually see the difference under 3 de.
post #1283 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

they didn't touch thx cinema i thought you said - so how's that a conflict?

That quote was from DNice, but they said they didnt measure THX since they are "inferior" to the ISF modes....As DNice said, the sets may go brighter (which we are finding out they do, but you may not be able to get the same results seen from the shootout (as far as accuracy goes).....
post #1284 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

they didn't touch thx cinema i thought you said - so how's that a conflict?

That quote was from DNice, but they said they didnt measure THX since they are "inferior" to the ISF modes....As DNice said, the sets may go brighter (which we are finding out they do, but you may not be able to get the same results seen from the shootout (as far as accuracy goes).....

lol ph8te. ok.......

so why would a measurement of thx cinema conflict with a measurement that they didn't even perform.... no need to answer that.
post #1285 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

You must have attended a different shootout than I did. I think the 8500 was considered better for 3D.

They said that they preferred the 3D of the Pannys, even though it didn't do 1080p. They got into a discussion as to why and they thought Panny had their reasons as they used to do full 3D. I will have to look at the video again and find the section.
post #1286 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

They said that they preferred the 3D of the Pannys, even though it didn't do 1080p. They got into a discussion as to why and they thought Panny had their reasons as they used to do full 3D. I will have to look at the video again and find the section.

David M. preferred the Samsung for 3D as the full resolution was very important to him.
post #1287 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

lol ph8te. ok.......

so why would a measurement of thx cinema conflict with a measurement that they didn't even perform.... no need to answer that.

Who said its conflicting? I certainly didnt say that, I just said it wouldnt be as accurate as ISF modes used in the shootout per what D-Nice stated earlier.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

What are you guys discussing? Are you wondering why THX mode wasn't used at the shootout? It wasn't used in the shootout for the reason I mentioned above. It is definitely possible to get a good calibration out of THX mode, but not as good as ISF.

This is pretty much what I got form what D-Nice said as well......
post #1288 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

That quote was from DNice, but they said they didnt measure THX since they are "inferior" to the ISF modes....As DNice said, the sets may go brighter (which we are finding out they do, but you may not be able to get the same results seen from the shootout (as far as accuracy goes).....
Not sure what you guys are debating, but it's true that the THX modes wouldn't be able to calibrate as well as the ISF modes for the reasons I said in my previous post. They used the best mode possible for the shootout. If you need more brightness, you can get a very good calibration out of THX mode, but not quite as good as ISF mode.
post #1289 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Not sure what you guys are debating, but it's true that the THX modes wouldn't be able to calibrate as well as the ISF modes for the reasons I said in my previous post. They used the best mode possible for the shootout. If you need more brightness, you can get a very good calibration out of THX mode, but not quite as good as ISF mode.

rah thats all I was saying, not sure how it got taken out of contect and made into a debate......the more data points we have the better IMO....
post #1290 of 1489
So if 75% of my watching is at night time I could calibrate the VT60 to 35 fl in isf mode and for the minimal day time viewing I could calibrate in a brighter ThX mode with slightly less accurate CMS? This sounds like an ok idea if I am thinking about it right. I really want to like the F8500 because the extra brightness will give me the purer whites for hockey, but the input lag for gaming is a no go for me. Is input lag something Samsung can correct on the F8500 ?
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