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Which display wins the shootout? Let's have some fun. Make your predictions here. - Page 15

post #421 of 1489
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Basically, all three are great tvs but Samsung has work to do, things to fix. I don't know if that includes fixes for banding in skin tones or the increased dithering when brightness is reduced.

Were these issues identified in the Shootout tonight?

Yes. It was also stated that they are working on fixing floating blacks and brightness pops. They've already issues a firmware update that makes it better, but not fixed yet.
post #422 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

no such thing as a Kuro Killer.....it is time to move on....The Kuro was ahead of it's time and set the standard that all manufacturer's aim for. Pioneer never had to build a Smart tv nor make a display over 60 inches so we will never know if it could have kept the same video and build quality on these bigger panel tv's. Black levels are so good on this year's tv's that it's really not worth discussing. I have a Kuro Elite 111fd and I love and I'm glad I bought it at the time. It was an easy decision a few years ago. Now it is so difficult to go out and buy that one set to live with for years.
No Kuro and his successor been 5 years since his last ... eek.gif
post #423 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I'm right there with you, except you have the added advantage of having seen all of these new kids side-by-side in the most optimum of viewing conditions. Which one would you choose?

The Samsung Plasma was first in my voting so that would be my choice......
post #424 of 1489
IMO based on watching the shootout, the F8500 wins on overall performance. I have to say I was suprised at how close the big 3 sets were in low light performance. Kudos to Samsung.

The biggest loser from the shoot-out appears to be the ZT60 - I think my expectations were just too high, but not helped by Panasonic touting it as the Kuro-killer. You would think their engineers would have had their own "shootout" before touting such claims. And the 2013 Panny peak brightness levels are just awful compared to what I have come to expect from Panny.
post #425 of 1489
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

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Originally Posted by terminaldawn View Post

i am also considering upgrading, however to soften the blow on price i want to sell my existing TV. Did you keep your vt50? Did you sell? Do you upgrade often?

If you have the VT50 I would suggest following the advice of the calibrators and not upgrade wink.gif wait until next year.....

Yup. No where to go if you already have the vt50 without losing something. Now I know how the kuro guys have felt a few years.
post #426 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Anything could happen, but the rumors of Panasonic's exit have been greatly exaggerated.

maybe..maybe not

no company is going to lose millions in a business year after year and not make some drastic changes.......a for profit company with stockholders anyway

2013 might be the year( based on financial results) that its decided which way they are going to go

I really doubt the status quo( based on its financial results) is going to work after this year


Warren
post #427 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

IMO based on watching the shootout, the F8500 wins on overall performance. I have to say I was suprised at how close the big 3 sets were in low light performance. Kudos to Samsung.

The biggest loser from the shoot-out appears to be the ZT60 - I think my expectations were just too high, but not helped by Panasonic touting it as the Kuro-killer. You would think their engineers would have had their own "shootout" before touting such claims. And the 2013 Panny peak brightness levels are just awful compared to what I have come to expect from Panny.

Agree 100%

Also I'm confused how during the private Panasonic held demo for ZT60 against Kuro, ZT60 seemed superior. David M confirmed that kuro was perfectly calibrated during the demo...... strange.
post #428 of 1489
Maybe it was "perfectly calibrated" by the Best Buy Geek Squad. biggrin.gif
post #429 of 1489
Thanks for this summary! So does that mean the ZT60 may be worth the extra money if you have a viewing environment that has some light issues but you still want the super-deep blacks?
post #430 of 1489
The Samsung has to win this overall, unless it's a "blacks" contest, currently watching ATM V Barca in a moderately bright room and it's outstanding, better than LED brightness. It's also handling the areas of the pitch in the sun and shade brilliantly, no pops at all.
post #431 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Ive said it before Panasonic shot themselves in the foot this year by making the ST "too good". They should have neutered its performance so that a bigger gap was present....

This is an excellent point. Though if they would have scaled their products properly (keeping the existing st60's excellent performance), the ZT should have at least equalled 9.5 stock Kuros. The floor established by the st60 warranted a ceiling that called for the 9.5 gen Kuro being equalled. I think this is why so many people believed panasonics high end display would finally equal the Kuro.
post #432 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

The Samsung Plasma was first in my voting so that would be my choice......

Agreed, I found this to be the most satisfying display to view content on all around.
post #433 of 1489
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Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post

Agree 100%

Also I'm confused how during the private Panasonic held demo for ZT60 against Kuro, ZT60 seemed superior. David M confirmed that kuro was perfectly calibrated during the demo...... strange.

Maybe they used a 151fd, whose lowest black level is .001 to compare similar sized screens. Anyone know what model Kuro they used?
post #434 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The brightness is atributed to the filters used on the ZT and the VT. The ST doesnt share a filter with these sets, thus it is able to get to a higher peak luminance once calibrated....The problem we are seeing is that once you start getting closer to the "limit" if the technology the differences between the different sets will become smaller and smaller. The VT and ZT are better sets than the ST, but the reasons they are better are small (IMO) and will not be worth the price difference for everyone....

Ive said it before Panasonic shot themselves in the foot this year by making the ST "too good". They should have neutered its performance so that a bigger gap was present....

The S and St's are their bread and butter lines, so if anything they want to make these the best possible. Not many outside this forum are willing to pay for VT/ZT60's.
post #435 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Maybe they used a 151fd, whose lowest black level is .001 to compare similar sized screens. Anyone know what model Kuro they used?

At the U.K. event they used a 600A and they used a 151 at NYC event.

But it doesn't matter, the kuros they used were not calibrated if i remember and something was off with them. Ken notice this in person when he was there.
post #436 of 1489

Hopefully the one with the best picture wins. biggrin.gif

post #437 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

At the U.K. event they used a 600A and they used a 151 at NYC event.

But it doesn't matter, the kuros they used were not calibrated if i remember and something was off with them. Ken notice this in person when he was there.

But, unless they're tweaked by D-Nice, the black levels on all 60 inch 9th generation Kuros is .001, which is the same that the VT60 and ZT60 measured at the shootout.

So the real question is, are the 65 inch VT60 and ZT60 equal to a 60 inch 9th generation Kuro? in the shootout, they did establish the fact that the filters on all 3 contestants had already surpassed the Kuro. So, they might be better performers than the 60 inch 9th gen Kuros during day time viewing, and equal during night time.

I wish they would have included a 60 inch 9th generation Kuro in the comparison duringthe shootout.
post #438 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

But, unless they're tweaked by D-Nice, the black levels on all 60 inch 9th generation Kuros is .001, which is the same that the VT60 and ZT60 measured at the shootout.

So the real question is, are the 65 inch VT60 and ZT60 equal to a 60 inch 9th generation Kuro? in the shootout, they did establish the fact that the filters on all 3 contestants had already surpassed the Kuro. So, they might be better performers than the 60 inch 9th gen Kuros during day time viewing, and equal during night time.

I wish they would have included a 60 inch 9th generation Kuro in the comparison duringthe shootout.

Yes i would say they would be equal. The VT60 i saw at BB looked really good.

Have you seen the Cnet review?

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55vt60/4505-6482_7-35567332.html

He mentions the VT60 has "slightly deeper blacks" but the 111FD still does a few things better. I didn't see any measurement that indicated better blacks. I only see the 0.002 full screen black.
Edited by saprano - 5/12/13 at 12:43pm
post #439 of 1489
D. Mackenzie measured black VT60 EU :
Quote:
Calibrated black level (black screen) 0003 cd/m2
Calibrated black level (ANSI checkerboard) 0007 cd/m2/

wink.gif
post #440 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

IMO based on watching the shootout, the F8500 wins on overall performance. I have to say I was suprised at how close the big 3 sets were in low light performance. Kudos to Samsung.

The biggest loser from the shoot-out appears to be the ZT60 - I think my expectations were just too high, but not helped by Panasonic touting it as the Kuro-killer. You would think their engineers would have had their own "shootout" before touting such claims.

So wait, its confirmed that the Panasonic's are not on the same level as the 60" Kuros overall?
post #441 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urga View Post

D. Mackenzie measured black VT60 EU :
wink.gif

Too many 0's


Calibrated black level (black screen) 0.003 cd/m2



Calibrated black level (ANSI checkerboard) 0.007 cd/m2


are the numbers from his review which match what they got in the shootout.....
post #442 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

So wait, its confirmed that the Panasonic's are not on the same level as the 60" Kuros overall?

Which Kuro? how is the Kuro calibrated? There are many factors when saying did they "beat" a Kuro......Are you looking purely at MLL? are you talking about overall performance?
post #443 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Which Kuro? how is the Kuro calibrated? There are many factors when saying did they "beat" a Kuro......Are you looking purely at MLL? are you talking about overall performance?



Overall performance comparing the usual suspects(151/141/KRP-600M) . I'm not trying to get too geeky about specific numbers or any crazy calibration techniques that one guy in the world could do....just a general consensus.
post #444 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

So wait, its confirmed that the Panasonic's are not on the same level as the 60" Kuros overall?

Yes
post #445 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Actually, what i got from it, is you cant go wrong with any of them. Panny, Sammy have wonderful panels this year.

+1

All winners imo - Amazing Plasmas for 2013 across the board.
post #446 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

IMO based on watching the shootout, the F8500 wins on overall performance. I have to say I was suprised at how close the big 3 sets were in low light performance. Kudos to Samsung.

The biggest loser from the shoot-out appears to be the ZT60 - I think my expectations were just too high, but not helped by Panasonic touting it as the Kuro-killer. You would think their engineers would have had their own "shootout" before touting such claims. And the 2013 Panny peak brightness levels are just awful compared to what I have come to expect from Panny.

Completely agree. I am surprised there wasn't at least 'something' tweaked in the ZT60 to give it an edge in blacks or performance. Not a good decision by Panasonic IMO.

On any rate, I am still undecided on which display I might purchase.
post #447 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Yes. It was also stated that they are working on fixing floating blacks and brightness pops. They've already issues a firmware update that makes it better, but not fixed yet.

I thought this was 100% fixed. This just makes my decision more difficult. lol
post #448 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Yes. It was also stated that they are working on fixing floating blacks and brightness pops. They've already issues a firmware update that makes it better, but not fixed yet.

I thought this was 100% fixed. This just makes my decision more difficult. lol

Pops are fixed. Not sure about floating blacks, but owners don't seem to think it's much of an issue. I think the real issue was pops.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #449 of 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Pops are fixed. Not sure about floating blacks, but owners don't seem to think it's much of an issue. I think the real issue was pops.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks...did you see any of this color banding be reported? D-Nice said he saw some of it on faces or something?
post #450 of 1489
Anyone know the black level that d-nice can achieve on the 60 inch 9th gen kuros?
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