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Real Time Shootout Results/Observations

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
For those of us who are not there or who are unable (or unwilling) to sit through the entire streaming feed, it would be great if any of you who are there or watching the feed could briefly summarize any of the results or observations in as close to real time as possible.

I have a feeling many of us would very much appreciate your keeping us up-to-the-minute on these goings on. smile.gif
post #2 of 64
IMO basically its between the VT and F8500 after day one....Ill still hold my claim to the following results, but IMO the Vt and samsung stepped up a notch tonight...

ZT60
VT60
F8500


The ZT was limited to 30ftL during calibration to 40ftL with the patterns that they were using, the Vt limited to 35ftL. The ZT has the better filter so that may in fact cancel out the brighter panel...
Both the ZT and Vt measured the same black levels over 3 different meters so that was a wash.

The F8500 along with the Kuro were able to each calibrate to 40Ftl., they didnt mention the F8500 black level, but well probably find out tomorrow....

nothing stood out for the Plasmas that made me go (tahts a deal breaker) outside of the luminance for VT\ZT which may be limited to pattern size used....

at the end of the day what people learned is that all 3 panels are VERY close and you cant really lose choosing any of the sets.....
post #3 of 64
I wasn't there, in person, but I didn't see any need for additional brightness on either Panny. At the beginning the curtain was open and the ZT was right next to the window too. I don't know how the audience saw it, or how it will impact their votes. I think the VT is going to win among the calibrators but just barely. I think the brightness impact on gray scale might keep the F8500 from being their choice, but maybe not. I don't recall them saying that the gray scale inaccuracies only occurred when brightness was set too high or not, and no one asked.
post #4 of 64
I observed that D-Nice is a lot thinner than he was last year smile.gif
post #5 of 64
The comment that I heard by the calibrators is that the F8500 panel is revolutionary. ZT and VT have the same black level and the VT can get brighter. Based on observations of the first day, the F8500 is the winner. See what tomorrow brings as I don't have a crystal ball. I think I see a PN64F8500 in my future and I don't need a crystal ball for that.
post #6 of 64
too early to tell who the winner in 2013 tv's was. the black levels all seemed good but i was only watching the video feed. i noticed that there seemed to be more info in detail in the panasonics as well as better greyscale but again it was a video feed.



would have loved to have been in the room
post #7 of 64
When they were doing the Kuro demo, there was an argument. What was that about?
post #8 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

When they were doing the Kuro demo, there was an argument. What was that about?

Are you talking about at the beginning? I heard someone talking to a photographer, something about how far back he should be standing. I heard "You're just trying to create controversy" then the guy seems to get annoyed with them and asks "are either of you guys photographers?...yes it does f*ing matter!" and then that he wasn't going to argue anymore. Sounds like some idiots trying to sound smart to me.
post #9 of 64
I may skip buying the ZT60 and get the VT60. Anyone want a 65vt30 for cheap?
post #10 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

When they were doing the Kuro demo, there was an argument. What was that about?

Are you talking about at the beginning? I heard someone talking to a photographer, something about how far back he should be standing. I heard "You're just trying to create controversy" then the guy seems to get annoyed with them and asks "are either of you guys photographers?...yes it does f*ing matter!" and then that he wasn't going to argue anymore. Sounds like some idiots trying to sound smart to me.

The concern was over how photos of these tvs are being used and what conclusions are being drawn from them, by both the publisher and the reader/viewer. The photographer didn't care whether his photos would create controversy or not, he said as much. He didn't even seem to care whether his image was true, despite his attempt to argue to the contrary. I think that "true" reproduction meant two different things to those involved in the dispute. The photographer didn't understand the concern.
post #11 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

The comment that I heard by the calibrators is that the F8500 panel is revolutionary. ZT and VT have the same black level and the VT can get brighter. Based on observations of the first day, the F8500 is the winner. See what tomorrow brings as I don't have a crystal ball. I think I see a PN64F8500 in my future and I don't need a crystal ball for that.
Revolutionary in relation to its brightness, yes. If that's an important parameter to you, go for it. I am still waiting to hear more about this "apparent" greater sharpness perception. None of the speakers mentioned it last night from what I recall.
Edited by vinnie97 - 5/11/13 at 8:19am
post #12 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

The concern was over how photos of these tvs are being used and what conclusions are being drawn from them, by both the publisher and the reader/viewer. The photographer didn't care whether his photos would create controversy or not, he said as much. He didn't even seem to care whether his image was true, despite his attempt to argue to the contrary. I think that "true" reproduction meant two different things to those involved in the dispute. The photographer didn't understand the concern.
Good grief, so that's what that outburst was about. He might have overreacted, but I would tend to side with the photographer given just how less than ideal the shooting environment was with so many people obscuring the view, and couple that with an internet stream being viewed on (mostly) uncalibrated TFT LCDs.
post #13 of 64
Any link to the shootout ?
post #14 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip61 View Post

Any link to the shootout ?

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/632436/hdtvshootout
post #15 of 64
Shouldn't they limit the ftL on all sets to roughly equal? We all know our eyes prefer the brighter panel aka LED LCD type. They mentioned about not trying to limit 8500. Obviously most people would pick the 8500 since our eyes can't really distinguish the blacks easily. The 8500 will stand out side by side with the others. Even though in real world we don't need to torch our eyes when watching at home.
post #16 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

The concern was over how photos of these tvs are being used and what conclusions are being drawn from them, by both the publisher and the reader/viewer. The photographer didn't care whether his photos would create controversy or not, he said as much. He didn't even seem to care whether his image was true, despite his attempt to argue to the contrary. I think that "true" reproduction meant two different things to those involved in the dispute. The photographer didn't understand the concern.
Good grief, so that's what that outburst was about. He might have overreacted, but I would tend to side with the photographer given just how less than ideal the shooting environment was with so many people obscuring the view, and couple that with an internet stream being viewed on (mostly) uncalibrated TFT LCDs.

Didn't you just want to yell "sit down!"?
post #17 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Shouldn't they limit the ftL on all sets to roughly equal? We all know our eyes prefer the brighter panel aka LED LCD type. They mentioned about not trying to limit 8500. Obviously most people would pick the 8500 since our eyes can't really distinguish the blacks easily. The 8500 will stand out side by side with the others. Even though in real world we don't need to torch our eyes when watching at home.

They do this already, they tried to calibrate all Tvs to 40ftL so that they would be on the same level.. The ZT ws only able to reach 30ftL and the VT was only able to reach 35ftL.....The Samsung calibrated to 40ftL as well as the Kuro. now that being said the size windows could ahve an effect, but since they decide to go with 10% windows I believe thats what they sets were limited to......
post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Didn't you just want to yell "sit down!"?

Yes a few times, but I guess if I was there, Id be right up there with them. really as long as during the tests the sets are not walked in front of Im ok....Its nice to see the sets, but doing any kind of meaningful comparison is pointless becasue the feed while good, is no where near accurate.
post #19 of 64
I just felt like a fly on the wall, so I didn't feel that compelled to shout at the screen, though I wouldn't have minded a little more visibility during that sequence. wink.gif
post #20 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I just felt like a fly on the wall, so I didn't feel that compelled to shout at the screen, though I wouldn't have minded a little more visibility during that sequence. wink.gif

For the Kuro Demo for sure, but again without a higher resolution\bitrate feed its near pointless on top of the fact that if your watching from an uncalibratedcalibrated to a different spec monitor things will look off. What would bee nice is to ahve two cameras going one HD camera that is not web enabled to get the "full" resolution and another for the web feed....
post #21 of 64
Just for a relative comparison, that's all.
post #22 of 64
I only got a chance to watch the video this morning, but will aim to catch it live tonight. Did they by any chance list the equipment they are using to run the demo? I know they have one of the Oppo Blu-ray players and it looks like a Pioneer receiver. Any info one the models they actually used?
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut65 View Post

I only got a chance to watch the video this morning, but will aim to catch it live tonight. Did they by any chance list the equipment they are using to run the demo? I know they have one of the Oppo Blu-ray players and it looks like a Pioneer receiver. Any info one the models they actually used?

Oppo 103 for the BR player.....They are using a HQ switch as well (the name escapes me atm.....Receiver much less important as its not being used for video wink.gif
post #24 of 64
Pretty sure it's the BDP-103.

Edit: Damn you, ph8!
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Pretty sure it's the BDP-103.

Edit: Damn you, ph8!

biggrin.gif
post #26 of 64
Thanks, guys. The AVS Teamwork here is Awesome! smile.gif
post #27 of 64
Samsung slips just a little. With gamma banding in skin tones. Color visible in the mids of gray scale ramp.

D-Nice said that was fixed in Panny's 50 & 60 series.
post #28 of 64
Thread Starter 
So....where are the results? The shootout is over, right? How long does it take to count up the votes? An hour or two? When are we going to find out who won this thing and that the finishing order was? No way it should be taking this long. Does anyone know? How long was it last year before a winner was crowned?
post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuralSex View Post

So....where are the results? The shootout is over, right? How long does it take to count up the votes? An hour or two? When are we going to find out who won this thing and that the finishing order was? No way it should be taking this long. Does anyone know? How long was it last year before a winner was crowned?

Looks like they still need to give the measurements of the new king to the TAYLOR and the HATMAKER. cool.gif
Ofcourse the hatmaker (for the Crown) and the taylor (for the ROBE) dont work on sundays.tongue.gif

Rob
post #30 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Oppo 103 for the BR player.....They are using a HQ switch as well (the name escapes me atm.....Receiver much less important as its not being used for video wink.gif

I believe they said it was a Matrix switcher
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