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switching from unraid to whs2011 =flexraid - Page 4

post #91 of 122
http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/topic,2203.0.html
post #92 of 122
Yup. Yup.

T-raid enters the fight...

Probably going to take more sales and customers from Unraid more than Snap/Flex- as its likely superior in the same aspect areas.

Flex/Snap should retain a few advantages they have now that are a result of the design.
post #93 of 122
tRAID is the true competitor to unRAID, not RAID-F like it has debated here.
post #94 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

tRAID is the true competitor to unRAID, not RAID-F like it has debated here.


Right. For those that argue the advantages of Fkexraid -F are not important t-Raid is likely far superior to unraid and better choice.

For those that argue done of Fkexraid f features are important it's tougher choice.

Fkexraid f isn't a direct competitor to unraid in a true sense like t raid is.
post #95 of 122
tRAID eh...great, more products to confuse us with, just as I was reading on FlexRaid lol.

Is there any info regarding tRAID? And will it work on Server 2012 Essentials?
post #96 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

tRAID eh...great, more products to confuse us with, just as I was reading on FlexRaid lol.

Is there any info regarding tRAID? And will it work on Server 2012 Essentials?

It should be available for WHS 2k12, not a 100% on that. We will know on June 1st.

http://www.openegg.org/2013/02/12/a-first-look-at-nzfs-and-replacing-unraid-with-nzfss-transparent-raid-traid/

http://www.openegg.org/2013/02/21/flexraids-raid-f-vs-nzfs/
post #97 of 122
It will be at least a year before I would even look at T-raid since it is brand new. Seems like it went through a very short development cycle which I find a little disturbing. Good luck to the early adopters.
post #98 of 122
Brahmin offered me to demo test the beta many months ago and claim at that time it was stable and ready.

I'd be surprised if this is a "rushed to market" product- he been working on it and talking about for over a year.
post #99 of 122
After reading through this I think I'll stick with UnRaid as well.

One less Windows machine to deal with. I really like the dedicated appliance approach. I try to keep all my HTPCs more or less dedicated to a task, HD playback, SD DVD playback, Ingest. but that's just me. I don't need nor want to run MS Excell on my media server!

Unraid just works and all I really want is a NAS box.

The only benefit of FlexRaid for me is the additional parity drive.
post #100 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Brahmin offered me to demo test the beta many months ago and claim at that time it was stable and ready.

I'd be surprised if this is a "rushed to market" product- he been working on it and talking about for over a year.
Do you know about the expiration of t-Raid RC version? One year like RC versions of Microsoft?
I really want to try it as long as it's not too short trial.
post #101 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpee View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Brahmin offered me to demo test the beta many months ago and claim at that time it was stable and ready.

I'd be surprised if this is a "rushed to market" product- he been working on it and talking about for over a year.
Do you know about the expiration of t-Raid RC version? One year like RC versions of Microsoft?
I really want to try it as long as it's not too short trial.


No I am sorry I don't know how long it is for.
post #102 of 122
I'm struggling to think of any perceived or real benefit to this as a method. I ended up going with Stablebit for a drive pool; I might look at FlexRAID for my other set when I bring it on line, but I can't think of a compelling reason to do so.. the big issue for me is that while the data on the discs is very nice to have, and I would hate to re-rip my library, if the whole thing fell apart, its' feasible I could just re-rip almost all my content. I can't imagine a situation where that would happen, but I suppose it could, all drives fail.... stuff that I really need backed up isn't altered very often, so a copy in the cloud and a backup generally covers me.

I can absolutely see the benefit, as someone who works in IT, of FlexRAID for a small office.. and I'm thinking about it in that light; but I am frankly very interested in the perceived or real benefits to those who are mostly storing audio/video. It's an intriguing idea, but I guess I'm saying: I could kind of care less about folder or file duplication for videos/etc. and I can get that on my other content with cloud connectivity or backups, or with StableBit duplication.

I see some people using StableBit+FlexRAID, and I'm really struggling to think of how/why that would work, and why you'd combo the two..

I'll keep reading.

It's definitely an intriguing concept and I can absolutely see where it would be very useful in some applications...
post #103 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

I'm struggling to think of any perceived or real benefit to this as a method. I ended up going with Stablebit for a drive pool; I might look at FlexRAID for my other set when I bring it on line, but I can't think of a compelling reason to do so.. the big issue for me is that while the data on the discs is very nice to have, and I would hate to re-rip my library, if the whole thing fell apart, its' feasible I could just re-rip almost all my content. I can't imagine a situation where that would happen, but I suppose it could, all drives fail.... stuff that I really need backed up isn't altered very often, so a copy in the cloud and a backup generally covers me.

I can absolutely see the benefit, as someone who works in IT, of FlexRAID for a small office.. and I'm thinking about it in that light; but I am frankly very interested in the perceived or real benefits to those who are mostly storing audio/video. It's an intriguing idea, but I guess I'm saying: I could kind of care less about folder or file duplication for videos/etc. and I can get that on my other content with cloud connectivity or backups, or with StableBit duplication.

I see some people using StableBit+FlexRAID, and I'm really struggling to think of how/why that would work, and why you'd combo the two..

I'll keep reading.

It's definitely an intriguing concept and I can absolutely see where it would be very useful in some applications...

For those of us with more than 20 TB's of movies, TV shows, and music, which took essentially years to rip and organize, that's just not a time investment we're willing to risk, when all we need to do is have FlexRAID set up on our server. As it is, I have all my stuff on 21 of the 24 drives in my server, with 3 parity drives. I'd need to lose 4 HDD's all at once in order to lose anything.
post #104 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

For those of us with more than 20 TB's of movies, TV shows, and music, which took essentially years to rip and organize, that's just not a time investment we're willing to risk, when all we need to do is have FlexRAID set up on our server. As it is, I have all my stuff on 21 of the 24 drives in my server, with 3 parity drives. I'd need to lose 4 HDD's all at once in order to lose anything.

I do get that.. the time investment. I just finished swinging out my 18TB for a 70TB (well, 30TB built in Stablebit right now, 10x3), and I do understand the time investment. It's an interesting thought, I totally understand it. And, as you have it "four drives would have to fail"; as with all pooling technologies, no matter how many drives fail for me, I don't lose all, I just lose what is on that drive.. but this is very intriguing stuff, and I'm set to consider it on the configuration that will have no data.

When I was considering FlexRAID their site was down for a day, and I only have so much time off work wink.gif So I needed to start the copy over from the old WHS.

It is interesting, I get it wink.gif I'll keep reading.
post #105 of 122
I noticed you mentioned copy or cloud back up.

Please know that Flexraid does not keep any copies of your files. It's not at all like hardware raid that uses a second drive to mirror the first.

The benefit for a media server and someone who uses Flexraid is just what he posted in reply to you. You can have 8 full data drives of media and you only need 1 parity drive to protect them. That saves you the cost of 7 hard drives.

It might not make sense to a noob with a single HDD of media when they can buy a 4 TB external HDD at Costco for $150 and just keep a spare copy of everything pretty cheap and easy . But what if you have 30TB of media ??? You want 10 more 3 TB drives to back up ? (That's like $1500). I would rather do it for a couple hundred and only a couple parity drives.

Flexraid makes sense in servers or PC with more storage and larger media libraries. If your not seeing value then your not there yet.

Realistically it's unreasonable to back up 30TB of media with cloud storage. Your ISP would shut you off for just uploading that amount.
post #106 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I noticed you mentioned copy or cloud back up.

Please know that Flexraid does not keep any copies of your files. It's not at all like hardware raid that uses a second drive to mirror the first.

The benefit for a media server and someone who uses Flexraid is just what he posted in reply to you. You can have 8 full data drives of media and you only need 1 parity drive to protect them. That saves you the cost of 7 hard drives.

It might not make sense to a noob with a single HDD of media when they can buy a 4 TB external HDD at Costco for $150 and just keep a spare copy of everything pretty cheap and easy . But what if you have 30TB of media ??? You want 10 more 3 TB drives to back up ? (That's like $1500). I would rather do it for a couple hundred and only a couple parity drives.

Flexraid makes sense in servers or PC with more storage and larger media libraries. If your not seeing value then your not there yet.

Realistically it's unreasonable to back up 30TB of media with cloud storage. Your ISP would shut you off for just uploading that amount.

No, no.. I'm not saying that.. I'm not backing up my videos in any way, because I have a permanent backup in the physical copies. Like I said, I would dislike re-ripping.. but... the only thing of mine that goes out to cloud is pretty small (example: word documents, excel, quickbooks)...

I do see the perceived benefit in "a drive fails", but again, you aren't really talking about "one parity drive and you don't need the seven on an extra backup"; in any raid configuration, the parity drive acts as parity but in order to function, the data must exist more than once; this is where redundancy comes in, the parity is simply the calculation of that redundancy.

I guess what I'm saying is: right now I have 10 drives setup at 3TB, 30TB.. which 16TB is in use, 14TB is free. If two drives die, in a load balanced situation, I would lose about ~3TB of data. Which would be frustrating as all sin, I agree.. but it's not as though I don't have physical copies to go back to to just re-rip; and anything really valuable that I can't lose is off-site.

When I bring up the other drive pool, I'm very interested in FlexRAID, in part because starting from scratch with a blank set it gives me a better appreciation of it. The biggest benefit to me in FlexRAID is frankly that if a drive fails (or multiple) the drives can still be physically read on another machine.. I do get the time benefit. I guess if I had more media I couldn't easily reproduce on physical media, I would really be worried about this.
post #107 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

I do see the perceived benefit in "a drive fails", but again, you aren't really talking about "one parity drive and you don't need the seven on an extra backup"; in any raid configuration, the parity drive acts as parity but in order to function, the data must exist more than once; this is where redundancy comes in, the parity is simply the calculation of that redundancy.
Software RAID setups like FlexRAID only require a single copy of the data. Parity is calculated on the existing data, not a copy.
post #108 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Please know that Flexraid does not keep any copies of your files. It's not at all like hardware raid that uses a second drive to mirror the first.
.

Flexraid is functionally extremely similar to Raid-3 or Raid-4.

The problem with not having some kind of parity/backup of your media is that if you lose a drive you now have to find 120-600 discs to re-burn. There is time wasted in re-ripping all of this, there is time wasted in figuring out which movies you need to re-rip, there is time wasted in finding the exact movies that need re-ripped.

What if the drive failure is 5 years down the road and some of your discs have gone bad?

Don't question if a hard drive will fail, question when it will fail.
post #109 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

No, no.. I'm not saying that.. I'm not backing up my videos in any way, because I have a permanent backup in the physical copies. Like I said, I would dislike re-ripping.. but... the only thing of mine that goes out to cloud is pretty small (example: word documents, excel, quickbooks)...

I do see the perceived benefit in "a drive fails", but again, you aren't really talking about "one parity drive and you don't need the seven on an extra backup"; in any raid configuration, the parity drive acts as parity but in order to function, the data must exist more than once; this is where redundancy comes in, the parity is simply the calculation of that redundancy.

I guess what I'm saying is: right now I have 10 drives setup at 3TB, 30TB.. which 16TB is in use, 14TB is free. If two drives die, in a load balanced situation, I would lose about ~3TB of data. Which would be frustrating as all sin, I agree.. but it's not as though I don't have physical copies to go back to to just re-rip; and anything really valuable that I can't lose is off-site.

When I bring up the other drive pool, I'm very interested in FlexRAID, in part because starting from scratch with a blank set it gives me a better appreciation of it. The biggest benefit to me in FlexRAID is frankly that if a drive fails (or multiple) the drives can still be physically read on another machine.. I do get the time benefit. I guess if I had more media I couldn't easily reproduce on physical media, I would really be worried about this.

In your scenario 10x 3tb HDDS all full that's 15tb of data with duplication, Flexraid can protect you against a single drive failure with one 3tb parity drive so you would only need 5x 3tb data HDD's and 1x 3tb parity HDD. You've saved the cost of 4x 3tb HDD's with Flexraid. If you want to protect yourself against 2x HDD failures then add a second 3tb parity drive but how often will 40% of your HDD's fail at the same time.

David
post #110 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidT99 View Post

In your scenario 10x 3tb HDDS all full that's 15tb of data with duplication, Flexraid can protect you against a single drive failure with one 3tb parity drive so you would only need 5x 3tb data HDD's and 1x 3tb parity HDD. You've saved the cost of 4x 3tb HDD's with Flexraid. If you want to protect yourself against 2x HDD failures then add a second 3tb parity drive but how often will 40% of your HDD's fail at the same time.

David

Again, as I said, I really don't care about duplication. I can duplicate data that really matters, but if I lost every one of my video files (except for my self-made ones, which are backed up elsewhere) I'd still have all the originals. But I do grasp the idea of time consumption, which is why I really looked into this. This is why I strongly considered FlexRaid.. until their website went down for about two days when I was in the middle of needing to move off of my old solution. Now, over this weekend, I'll build the 40TB pool, and I'll probably use FlexRAID to do it. It seems a feasible way to get at it and address my issues.

In the end, to me the biggest advantage of any balanced pool solution was: lose the drive, you don't lose all data, you still have all the other drives; lose the motherboard or box, it's all readable on another PC. That to me is the HUGE benefit that say, FlexRAID appears to have that was a big concern for me; coming from a long past with several RAID based controller RAID5 solutions that I'd suffer a card failure or a board failure and all data everywhere on good drives was basically toast, that was a big, huge concern that years ago caused me to really prefer the WHS pooling/balancing method.. sure, you could lose some data, but your chances of losing all were low, and again, like I said.. i still have the originals.

The arguments are pretty compelling, and I get the benefit, which is why I'm reading into it.

In regards to "discs could go bad".. there may be instances of DVD rot, though rare, and nothing like the old days of Laserdisc rot. I'm really not very concerned for my blurays, which are all nicely stored in containers and locked away. I guess if the house caught fire, but again, if that was the case, no level of raid would save me then.
post #111 of 122
My thoughts with a disc going bad has more to do with if you are looking at 600 discs, there is an increased chance that one has gone bad. I believe DVD's are supposed to be good for 30-100 years if stored properly and originally of good quality.
post #112 of 122
DVD's don't go bad... but who wants to store them and re-rip them. My time is to valuable. Even at $10 and hour wage- it's more expensive to re-rip your collection than it is to buy a parity drive and a flex raid licence.


Time is money.
post #113 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

DVD's don't go bad... but who wants to store them and re-rip them. My time is to valuable. Even at $10 and hour wage- it's more expensive to re-rip your collection than it is to buy a parity drive and a flex raid licence.


Time is money.

I agree with you on this; time is money, and so you've convinced me for the other 40, that's what I'm going to do. I might move both into Flex, we'll see.

On the other hand, I have to admit.. there are a LOT of titles I ripped years ago into BS DIVX AVI back when that was "the thing" from DVDs, and if I lost all of them, it would probably just cause me to get off my ass and actually MKV them the right way, I just haven't felt compelled to do it as of yet.. smile.gif
post #114 of 122
Don't listen to Mfusick... He's lying! Again!
post #115 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Don't listen to Mfusick... He's lying! Again!

tongue.gif

I can't tell if your sarcastic or serious. biggrin.gif
post #116 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

tongue.gif

I can't tell if your sarcastic or serious. biggrin.gif

Half/half.

All media goes bad! DVD's included.

I was definitely poking fun at you a little bit though. smile.gif
post #117 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Half/half.

All media goes bad! DVD's included.

I was definitely poking fun at you a little bit though. smile.gif
He's a big boy. He can take it. wink.gif I do agree about most media going bad, but it's not entirely true across the board. It all depends on the media and how long each type will last. I've got videotapes that are almost 30 years old that are still playable. My vinyl records will probably last longer than me. biggrin.gif Stamped/molded digital media, such as CDs, DVDs, and Blu-Rays, should last indefinitely since the only thing that might possibly deteriorate is the reflective aluminum plating. Recordable disc media will only last as long as the dye coating on the disc. I can only presume the dyes used on today's recordable media has much better longevity than the original types of dye. Hard drives will likely have a shorter life expectancy than any other type of storage media, mainly because the recordable surfaces are used more often and are more prone to wear and tear.
post #118 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

Again, as I said, I really don't care about duplication. I can duplicate data that really matters, but if I lost every one of my video files (except for my self-made ones, which are backed up elsewhere) I'd still have all the originals. But I do grasp the idea of time consumption, which is why I really looked into this. This is why I strongly considered FlexRaid.. until their website went down for about two days when I was in the middle of needing to move off of my old solution. Now, over this weekend, I'll build the 40TB pool, and I'll probably use FlexRAID to do it. It seems a feasible way to get at it and address my issues.

In the end, to me the biggest advantage of any balanced pool solution was: lose the drive, you don't lose all data, you still have all the other drives; lose the motherboard or box, it's all readable on another PC. That to me is the HUGE benefit that say, FlexRAID appears to have that was a big concern for me; coming from a long past with several RAID based controller RAID5 solutions that I'd suffer a card failure or a board failure and all data everywhere on good drives was basically toast, that was a big, huge concern that years ago caused me to really prefer the WHS pooling/balancing method.. sure, you could lose some data, but your chances of losing all were low, and again, like I said.. i still have the originals.

The arguments are pretty compelling, and I get the benefit, which is why I'm reading into it.

In regards to "discs could go bad".. there may be instances of DVD rot, though rare, and nothing like the old days of Laserdisc rot. I'm really not very concerned for my blurays, which are all nicely stored in containers and locked away. I guess if the house caught fire, but again, if that was the case, no level of raid would save me then.

So you're not bothered about protecting the data as you are happy to re-rip? That being the case then look at SnapRAID, Drive pool and Drive Bender as they all provide pooling.

David
post #119 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidT99 View Post

So you're not bothered about protecting the data as you are happy to re-rip? That being the case then look at SnapRAID, Drive pool and Drive Bender as they all provide pooling.

David

Well, at the time that I needed to get this done, the FlexRAID website was down (I posted here to ask for alternate downloads) but I just had that weekend to do it, so I went with Stablebit. But I only did the 3TB drives, so I still have a stack of 4TB drives I could use FlexRAID for and migrate again. We'll see. I'm considering.
post #120 of 122
I have seen the flexraid site go down a couple times, but never for more than a few hours. I think you have bad luck. lol.

It's always back up withing a few hours for me when I try back. I think it's just normal server maintenance.
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