or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Latest Ceton InfiniTV 6 Info Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Latest Ceton InfiniTV 6 Info Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

I'll double check my Windows activation. The system is a headless dedicated HTPC, so the applications are very minimal: Media Browser, My Channel Logos, Ceton Diagnostics, Ceton My Media Center.

Please clarify "released" because I clearly see on the device webpage it says "STOPPED" after a recording has finished. "STOPPED" appears to show the signal level and strength on the channel as well. It may be released to the pool for use by WMC, but the signal information indicates it remains tuned.

Also, my pixelation issues can easily be replicated with the following steps:
1) Open device webpage
2) Select a tuner from One to Six, then click tuner
3) Enter a channel number to test
4) Repeat for all six tuners
5) Watch Live TV from WMC on any HD channel

These steps will show 5 STOPPED tuners and 1 PLAYING tuner on the device webpage. If STOPPED was fully releasing the tuners, then this test should not cause pixelation. I should have to record 6 channels at once or some combination of recording and watching Live TV (on extenders and HTPC).

I will give this a test later today, when the wife is done with the TV.
post #152 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You can view the temps of the tuners to see if they are stopped. When you stop all tuners, then wait a little bit for the unit to cool down, you will see they all drop to under 40C. When a tuner is in use, it goes up to 48C (these numbers are what I see), and the surrounding not in use tuners also go up some due to proximity to the heat generating in use tuner. From what I can see, they stay locked on to make their reuse much faster than the first time after a reboot, which takes forever to tune. No significant heat (compared to an actively in use tuner) is generated from this.

The "lock" or temperatures are causing my pixelation. Pixelation happens immediately when I "lock" all six tuners as described earlier and then watch TV. Temps start in the high 30s and quickly climb to high 50s.
post #153 of 861
I did the same test but did not get any pixilation. I had all 6 tuners locked to HD channels, then went into WMC and jumped around a few other HD channels, then went back and verified temps and such. I let one of the channels run for 10 mins to make sure it had time to warm up. Seems my HTPC loves tuner 4 the most as it seems to always select that one first. The tuners did get warm, mid 50s at the highest, but still no pixilation. If you think it is a heat issue, put a fan on the tuner temporarily and then run the same test. My temps seem a little lower than yours, but my tuner is in my basement where it is always cool.

As a note, even though it might not be needed, I am still using a low pass filter on the incoming COAX line. I no longer use COAX for the Internet connection to my router (had it changed to Ethernet by Verizon), but since it does not hurt anything I figured I might as well leave it there.
post #154 of 861
I uninstalled the Ceton Tuners, Ceton Diagnostics, MediaBrowser, My Channel Logos. I even ran the remove tuners from the Ceton Diagnostic application before uninstalling. I rebooted every step of the way. I cleaned all temp files, setting files, etc. left behind by the fore mentioned applications. I also ran DCA again. Before reinstalling the drivers and Ceton utilities, I unplugged the InfiniTV6 for a few minutes. Then restarted the HTPC.

After all these actions, I can still confirm the pixelation happens when 6 channels are tuned [at least one (1) "Playing" and five (5) "Stopped"]. The temperature jumps to over 57C on the Playing tuner after just a couple of minutes. The is clearly faulty hardware.
post #155 of 861
Did you put a fan on it to lower the temps and see if it goes away? Easy test, you can even use a box fan or a desk fan to blow air across it. If you lower the temps and it stops happening you have confirmed it is a temperature problem. It could still be that you have a faulty unit, but a simple test will see if it actually temperature related or not.
Edited by cybrsage - 5/20/13 at 7:38pm
post #156 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Re: the unauthorized window, I've seen that on non-activated copies of windows or something in the startup group running

When the tuner is stopped, it is released.

Windows was properly authorized. I also removed all the applications from the machine and reinstalled just the Ceton apps. I still get the spinning blue circle or ring or whatever very frequently on the Echo now that I am using the InfiniTV6.

I keep sending logs to CSR for the InfiniTV6 pixelation. They even had me connect it directly to the main cable feed for the house. No change at all.

That also answered temp questions, because the InfiniTV6 had tons of time to get cold, while I removed everything from the data panel to get access to the main feed. The pixelation is instantaneous as soon as 6 tuners are tuned (5 "STOPPED" and 1 "PLAYING") based on the device webpage.

EDIT: I did some additional testing. The goal was not to use the device web page.

Using WMC, I recorded 6 random HD shows at once for a few minutes. One by one I stopped the recordings. I went back and checked the recordings for pixelation. To my surprise, there was no pixelation. I did not access the device web page or Ceton Diagnostic intentional, so I can't speak to temps or signal. The observation here is that using WMC to tune to 6 channels appears to work. However, if I use the device web page to check signal on all 6 tuners, then pixelation happens until the unit is rebooted or power cycled. This narrows down the problem to the device.
Edited by shortcut3d - 5/20/13 at 11:58pm
post #157 of 861
I currently own the HDHomerun Prime 3CC and have been considering upgrading to the new Ceton InfiniTV 6. I'm actually getting pixelation issues with my HDHomerun when using all 3 tuners - was hoping the Ceton would resolve that.

Anyways, how does the new Ceton compare to the HDHomerun in terms of firmware/software/performance (tuning speed, etc)? I'm with Comcast - you think there will be any issues transferring the cablecard over? FYI - anyone else using Comcast, I've had the only luck activating using their Tier 2 support (1-877-761-5015).
post #158 of 861
So far, only one person (in this thread) has reported pixilation issues - I suspect he has bad hardware or the ambient temp in his home is high enough to cross that critical boundary where the temps play an issue. The tuners heat up very fast when in use.

IMO, there are always issues transferring cable cards, so do it during the workday if you can so you have more techs to help you get it resolved. smile.gif

Tuning speed is quite fast AFTER the initial tuning after a PC reboot. My suggestion is that when you reboot the PC, tune in a high def station immediately after the HTPC stabilizes to get it out of the way. Each time after that it is pretty fast. This is on Verizon FiOS. That first tune after the reboot takes so long it crosses over the point where I start to think it failed. Blue circle for a good 10 - 15 seconds (just a guess, did not measure it), then a black screen for about 3 seconds (again, a guess), then the station. After that it is pretty peppy. I suspect this is why the Ceton does not remove the lock when you stop playing the channel.
post #159 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

So far, only one person (in this thread) has reported pixilation issues - I suspect he has bad hardware or the ambient temp in his home is high enough to cross that critical boundary where the temps play an issue. The tuners heat up very fast when in use.
FWIW, I finally got my CableCard issues sorted out yesterday afternoon (a big thank you to Eric Kotz and anyone else at Ceton who assisted with getting Verizon to get it resolved - Ceton was very responsive to the ticket I submitted for this). I then setup 12 recordings (yes, I've got 2 of the InfiniTV 6 ETH's) that all ran without any issues. The temps on all 12 tuners are ranging between 58.9 C and 61.3 C. The ambient temperature in the basement where they're located is around 65 F and I currently have the InfiniTV 6 ETH's sitting on small wood blocks under each rubber foot on top of my Norco rack mount PC chassis (which doesn't get warm - all heat from the PC flows out the back). The wood blocks allow for some extra airflow on the underside. As I recall, the tuners on my InfiniTV 4 PCIe's stayed in the mid 40's, so these higher temps do have me a bit concerned. If we get word from Ceton that those temps are "normal" I won't worry about it. Otherwise, I'll look into options to setup fans to keep them cooler.
Quote:
IMO, there are always issues transferring cable cards, so do it during the workday if you can so you have more techs to help you get it resolved. smile.gif
If the your provider has problems transferring a CableCard, I'd suggest opening a ticket with Ceton. They know who to contact to get these issues resolved.
Quote:
Tuning speed is quite fast AFTER the initial tuning after a PC reboot. My suggestion is that when you reboot the PC, tune in a high def station immediately after the HTPC stabilizes to get it out of the way. Each time after that it is pretty fast. This is on Verizon FiOS. That first tune after the reboot takes so long it crosses over the point where I start to think it failed. Blue circle for a good 10 - 15 seconds (just a guess, did not measure it), then a black screen for about 3 seconds (again, a guess), then the station. After that it is pretty peppy. I suspect this is why the Ceton does not remove the lock when you stop playing the channel.
That would apply to each tuner, so theoretically one would need to setup a bunch of recordings after a reboot to get the tuners primed.
post #160 of 861
Quote:
The temps on all 12 tuners are ranging between 58.9 C and 61.3 C. The ambient temperature in the basement where they're located is around 65 F and I currently have the InfiniTV 6 ETH's sitting on small wood blocks under each rubber foot on top of my Norco rack mount PC chassis (which doesn't get warm - all heat from the PC flows out the back). The wood blocks allow for some extra airflow on the underside. As I recall, the tuners on my InfiniTV 4 PCIe's stayed in the mid 40's, so these higher temps do have me a bit concerned. If we get word from Ceton that those temps are "normal" I won't worry about it. Otherwise, I'll look into options to setup fans to keep them cooler. -gsr

One would think Ceton should have designed the units to handle a worse case scenario with ambient air temp at 90-95F. I am very concerned with the temps being reported with cool basement air. Ceton stated that up to 65C was the normal operating temps for the USB InfiniTV version in one of the reviews so hopefully you will be o.k. I am curious to see what the internal temps will reach in 85F ambient air?
post #161 of 861
The "problem" is people seem to want fanless for any component and it just needs "any" airflow to reduce the temps 5-10 degrees. My internal unit has something like this which keeps the temp at around 50°-55°C Currently on my USB unit I use an 80mm case fan but have had good results with just any fan in the area including a USB powered soft blade fan (similar to this) which I plugged into the front port of the STA1520.

Most don't have problems up to about 60°C but some have occasional problems as low as 55°C... I believe the spec states 70° and ceton states it to be 65°
post #162 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

That would apply to each tuner, so theoretically one would need to setup a bunch of recordings after a reboot to get the tuners primed.

Yet it does not, for some reason. Not sure why - and my knowledge of how these things work is admittedly poor. It only is horrifically slow the first tune.

EDIT: Maybe it has to do with the HTPC finding the tuners?
Edited by cybrsage - 5/22/13 at 6:18am
post #163 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haba View Post

One would think Ceton should have designed the units to handle a worse case scenario with ambient air temp at 90-95F. I am very concerned with the temps being reported with cool basement air. Ceton stated that up to 65C was the normal operating temps for the USB InfiniTV version in one of the reviews so hopefully you will be o.k. I am curious to see what the internal temps will reach in 85F ambient air?

Why so hot? When I worked in server rooms, they would alarm before they reached 100F...
post #164 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by dapriett View Post

I currently own the HDHomerun Prime 3CC and have been considering upgrading to the new Ceton InfiniTV 6. I'm actually getting pixelation issues with my HDHomerun when using all 3 tuners - was hoping the Ceton would resolve that.

Anyways, how does the new Ceton compare to the HDHomerun in terms of firmware/software/performance (tuning speed, etc)? I'm with Comcast - you think there will be any issues transferring the cablecard over? FYI - anyone else using Comcast, I've had the only luck activating using their Tier 2 support (1-877-761-5015).

I have severe pixelation issues and can reproduce the issue every time. It was not related to ambient temperature. Fortunately, it appears related to the InfiniTV6 device webpage and tuning all 6 tuners for testing signal. I can not reproduce the issue using WMC to tune by recording 6 shows.

As others have stated, tuning is slower than the HDHomeRun Prime. The initial tune is super slow. Channel changes are not as fast either. My bigger issue is the software seems to have slowed WMC significantly. I've reverted back to a base install of Windows 7 and still constantly get spinning blue circle / ring in WMC. My system is based on a 2011 Mac mini 2.7GHz Dual-Core Intel i7, 8GB RAM, 512GB Samsung 830 SSD (Windows 7 OS), 2TB WD Scorpio Green 5400RPM (recording). I run OSX from a thunderbolt SSD as needed. I have had more than enough power over the years to run WMC, MyChannel Logos, Media Browser Neo, My Media Center, Media Center Master without a single blue spinning circle and the 6 tuner Prime.
post #165 of 861
Wow, just discovered the 6 tuner Ceton after just buying two PCIE 4 tuner versions.

My questions for the experts here are these:

1) Since the new unit is ethernet based, and I have one wired PC and two Wireless PC's in my house all running windows 7, Can Windows Media Center pick up the Ceton wirelessly So I can watch and record David Letterman in my bedroom and my wife can watch and record Leno on that wired PC or do I need Media exteneders to watch and record using MCE on each PC?

2) Here on Long Island, Optimum works fine with my PCIE ceton, without a Tuning adapter, upstate at my second home I have Time Warner Cable, got a ceton there with BASIC service and it pulls in the Basic HDTV channels in MC, if I upgrade to the 200 channel plus will I need a tuning adapter? Does Time Warner Cable use SDV (switched Digital Video) Obviously Optimum doesn't, does fios?


Thanks in advance,

Jeff
Edited by avguy53 - 5/21/13 at 4:37pm
post #166 of 861
For pulling in live tv (and recording it) wireless is often too unreliable... its not the speed, its the quality as the nature of the live broadcast, especially of protected content, "can't" be buffered and retransmitted and it is inevitable that packets will be dropped. Even extenders often don't like working with wireless even for the playback of recordings. If the content is unprotected you would still be better off recording it on the wired computer and then playing it back on the wireless ones but that won't work for any protected (copy once) channels... in this case it behaves more like a file copy and if there is an error in transmission (dropped packet) it can recover. Many people do have some success with it though so you will have to try it for yourself as each location is different..

Traditionally time warner uses SDV... at one time (many years ago) I heard it wasn't properly implemented in NY and though channels were supposedly SDV, everything was always on as they treated the whole state as one giant node and there would always be at least one person in the state watching a channel so everything was always on... I'm sure they have improved it since then and it may be that even in the large package of channels the channels you watch aren't SDV but I have heard of some TWC locations where nearly everything but locals is SDV. FIOS does not use SDV but I wouldn't be surprised if at some time more "channels" were to become ip based and not be available over the cable.
post #167 of 861
Sorry, but I think you are mistaken. While obviously the source content is not going to be retransmitted on error while recording or live viewing, this will be the same whether wired or wireless, protected or unprotected content. Once recorded, even packets from live TV (which is essentially recorded tv) will be retransmitted across your local network from the server if packets are dropped. This is the nature of TCP.

Just for fun (I'm a nerd, can't help myself) I'm into week 3 of an experiment with a wireless-only network. A server with OTA tuner card and one extender are on their own wireless subnet. With both WMC and Plex server running, this server houses content for both wired and wireless clients (Xbox, Roku/Plex). So far I've had no problems whatsoever with either TV or MKVs. Nope, I don't recommend this, but if it's all you've got it can work.
post #168 of 861
Actually I think you stated exactly what I said and believe I am "not" mistaken... that they will not be retransmitted as the transport stream tuners use is UDP not TCP so there is no guarantee of delivery ... Yes its true wired or wireless but wired will be more reliable for this as it won't have as many dropped packets. Extenders also use UDP to stream the video, whether live or recorded, so they also are subject to "extreme" packet loss using wireless making watching even recorded content on an extender potentially unacceptable. When one plays a recorded file on another computer (unprotected content only) or uses the "file play" capabilities on their "extender" (not WMC), it uses TCP to "get" the file (and can buffer it) so retransmission of problem packets is built in but to do this, it must be recorded first that is why I said it would be preferred to record on the wired one then play back the recording on the wireless one. I just put the especially protected content in as I have heard of some network tuning devices actually able to use TCP (or still use UDP with a little more "correction" abilities at the application layer) for a little bit more reliable playing over wireless but even it has its built in limits if too many packets get dropped as the packets will not be available forever as it is "live" .

I also mentioned that they may try it as it really does depend on other environmental and personal variables as whether or not its use would be deemed acceptable (many here seem to imply that they believe that one bad frame every 5 or 10 minutes ruins everything). Though I may be wrong on this, I also believe in your case that OTA, being wireless itself, has a more robust way of error correction within the transport stream than qam though even qam does have abilities to recover from many transmission errors
post #169 of 861
^^^ He is right. WMC uses UDP, not TCP, for CableCard tuners. The biggest problem with wireless is inevitable packet drops. So, there will be no retransmission. Wireless is usually not recommended for WMC TV watching. But YMMV.

Packet drops can happen on wired connection as well. That's why some see pixaletions in video. There are a lot of threads and diagnostic tips on SiliconDust's forum for their network tuners. Common cause: bad on board NIC and a lot of times bad drivers. Some Realtec drivers are really problematic and one of the Intel NIC on-board Intel motherboard just plain flawed. You probably will never notice these issues on your daily usage because of TCP protocol's re-transmission. But UDP is a different story.
Edited by Foxbat121 - 5/22/13 at 9:25am
post #170 of 861
^^ Thank you both for the clarification. I did not realize that UDP was used internally. It seems contrary to strive for lossless content and use a lossy transport, and I had inaccurately presumed that everything was transferred within Windows RDP (remote desktop protocol, not reliable data protocol) between desktop and extender.

Absolutely wired is best, there is no argument there. My experiment is one of those "don't try this at home" kind of things, but I have to say I am surprised at the results I'm getting. I had one issue with recorded tv and ran to troubleshoot, it turns out thunderstorm was the issue smile.gif
post #171 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

My experiment is one of those "don't try this at home" kind of things, but I have to say I am surprised at the results I'm getting. I had one issue with recorded tv and ran to troubleshoot, it turns out thunderstorm was the issue smile.gif
Try adding a baby monitor (especially with video) and that experiment will fail horribly. biggrin.gif Add a second and you will feel like you are on dialup.
post #172 of 861
If any of you folks that bought the new Ceton 6 tuner box that may now want to sell your working 4 tuner PCI card for an inexpensive price... please PM me as I'm looking to buy a used InfiniTV 4 PCI that is in good working condition.

Thanks
post #173 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by c6guy View Post

If any of you folks that bought the new Ceton 6 tuner box that may now want to sell your working 4 tuner PCI card for an inexpensive price... please PM me as I'm looking to buy a used InfiniTV 4 PCI that is in good working condition.
When I get to the point where I'm ready to sell mine (I'm going to live with the new InfiniTV 6 ETH's for another week or so first), I'll be looking to sell them for the most $$$ I can get, not the least wink.gif.
post #174 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

^^ Thank you both for the clarification. I did not realize that UDP was used internally. It seems contrary to strive for lossless content and use a lossy transport, and I had inaccurately presumed that everything was transferred within Windows RDP (remote desktop protocol, not reliable data protocol) between desktop and extender.

Basically, anything that is real time audio or video is not usually sent via TCP, since it is better to miss part of the video or audio than have it show up in the wrong order - or pause the entire thing while waiting for that one packet to arrive.
post #175 of 861
I'm not sure about most of you but I am seeing a significant hit to network reliability since changing to the 6. I have tried watching content on different devices and continue to run up against "Network issues" according to the extender. However each network test returns full signal graph. I am connected either via coax/Ethernet (moca) or straight cat6 Ethernet. No other network devices are seeing issues. All that has happens is I swapped a 6 with from a 3 CC prime.
post #176 of 861
The only thing on my network that pits a fit is the echo. My Prime is rock solid. Is the a coincedence here?
post #177 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

I'm not sure about most of you but I am seeing a significant hit to network reliability since changing to the 6. I have tried watching content on different devices and continue to run up against "Network issues" according to the extender. However each network test returns full signal graph. I am connected either via coax/Ethernet (moca) or straight cat6 Ethernet. No other network devices are seeing issues. All that has happens is I swapped a 6 with from a 3 CC prime.

Is this all the time or only when many things are going on such as six streams? How many and which devices are you serving by moca? Usually the interface is 100Mb/s so 6 HD streams will overwhelm that. Sending it to an extender will also be another stream and all this adds up... ideally the only thing on moca should be a couple of extenders.
post #178 of 861
It may be a coincidence, but my Apple TimeCapsule crashed yesterday while I was simulating the pixelation issues for Ceton Support. This was the closest the InfiniTV6 was to the TimeCapsule from a network topology perspective. It was one switch away. Normally all the HTPC related devices are at the bottom of the network past the switch that services all the room drops on its own dedicated switch.

Today I provided Wireshark and new Ceton Diagnostics to support. Hopefully, this will help resolve the pixelation issues. I did some additional testing. The goal was not to use the device web page.

Using WMC, I recorded 6 random HD shows at once for a few minutes. One by one I stopped the recordings. I went back and checked the recordings for pixelation. To my surprise, there was no pixelation. I did not access the device web page or Ceton Diagnostic intentionally, so I can't speak to temps or signal. The observation here is that using WMC to tune to 6 channels appears to work. However, if I use the device web page to check signal on all 6 tuners, then pixelation happens until the unit is rebooted or power cycled. This narrows down the problem to the device.
Edited by shortcut3d - 5/22/13 at 11:06pm
post #179 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

The observation here is that using WMC to tune to 6 channels appears to work. However, if I use the device web page to check signal on all 6 tuners, then pixelation happens until the unit is rebooted or power cycled. This narrows down the problem to the device.
You say it works fine until you run a software program on the PC, then the tuner acts up. That doesn't necessarily narrow the problem down to the device.

Software can disrupt network tuners. I had a Dell utility that ran every day at noon, and when it started my HDHR Prime tuners would stop and report a signal loss. Maybe your browser or a plugin is interfering with network traffic. Have you tried using a different browser or accessing the device webpage from a different pc on the network?
post #180 of 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

I'm not sure about most of you but I am seeing a significant hit to network reliability since changing to the 6. I have tried watching content on different devices and continue to run up against "Network issues" according to the extender. However each network test returns full signal graph. I am connected either via coax/Ethernet (moca) or straight cat6 Ethernet. No other network devices are seeing issues. All that has happens is I swapped a 6 with from a 3 CC prime.

Is this all the time or only when many things are going on such as six streams? How many and which devices are you serving by moca? Usually the interface is 100Mb/s so 6 HD streams will overwhelm that. Sending it to an extender will also be another stream and all this adds up... ideally the only thing on moca should be a couple of extenders.

There are only two extenders on moca. The rest of the setup is cat6. I record all content to a central 16gb i5 machine. The only software it's running is Ceton and version 2 of MB.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Home Theater Computers
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Latest Ceton InfiniTV 6 Info Thread