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Latest Ceton InfiniTV 6 Info Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

There is a firmware update available. After the update, my first tuning only took 4 seconds instead of 10 seconds. All the other tunings are still slightly over 1 second so if they are faster I may not be able to tell.

Updated as well and my speeds are now fantastic. They were reasonable after rebalance of my signals but now post FW I am seeing sub 2 sec speeds across the board minus initial load. That's still in the 3-5 range. Now, all we need are some reasonable extenders or implementation of DLNA, and it's game on. I. Thinking of dropping the PCIe and going with another network version. 12 Tuners cause I can for like 12 a month.

Great work here Ceton.
post #242 of 869
To upgrade or not... I've got an open ticket with Ceton related to a 3 hour recording that stopped at 52 minutes this past Monday night. They had me enable some additional logging in WMC, wait for it to happen again, and send in another diagnostic. I should probably check with them and see what they'd prefer for me to do before upgrading as doing so could obviously have an impact on the results.
post #243 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

To upgrade or not... I've got an open ticket with Ceton related to a 3 hour recording that stopped at 52 minutes this past Monday night. They had me enable some additional logging in WMC, wait for it to happen again, and send in another diagnostic. I should probably check with them and see what they'd prefer for me to do before upgrading as doing so could obviously have an impact on the results.

I would go for it..how many do you have two? At least do one.. biggrin.gif
Edited by mariob33 - 5/31/13 at 4:47am
post #244 of 869
I edited my results to be in an easier to understand format


I received most of my attenuators yesterday and am doing testing today. The sent me a -3dB instead of a -10dB by mistake - I have an email into them to resolve it. For now, I am hooking up a -3 and a -8 to make -11 for testing...should be close enough to 10. All tests (save one)were done with a -3.5dB splitter upstream. The each subsequent tuning was performed by stopping the current stream, changing to a new channel via the guide, then selecting the new channel via the guide. Tuning that was done via the up/down channel button the remote control was about an entire second faster. All times were from when I pushed the button on the remote until the tv channel was playing smoothly. All times were accurately counted using the One-one thousand, Two-one thousand method.

I am rebooting between tests and will update this post with each test. The power levels at the front of each line are the high and low numbers across all 6 tuners.


-12.2 to -13.3.5dB: 6 seconds initial tune, 2.5 seconds each tune thereafter
-8.1dB and -9.2dB: 5.5 seconds initial tune, barely over 2 seconds each tune thereafter
-7dB and -6dB: 6 seconds initial tune, about 2 seconds each tune thereafter
-3.2dB and -4.6dB: 5 seconds for initial tune, 3.5 seconds each tune thereafter
-3.3dB and -1.6dB: 5 seconds for the initial tune, 4 seconds each tune thereafter
1.7dB and 0.5dB: 5 seconds for the initial tune, 4.5 seconds each tune thereafter
4.3dB and 3.3dB: 6 seconds for the initial tune, 5 seconds for each tune thereafter

and for giggles
-45.8 and -42.8: Took it 18 seconds to decide there was no signal


These results are not scientific by any means, but they show that a good range for input power would be somewhere between -9.2dB and -6dB.
Edited by cybrsage - 6/1/13 at 9:48pm
post #245 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

These results are not scientific by any means, but they show that a good range for input power would be somewhere between -23.5dB and -16dB. I chose to use the splitter with the 16dB attenuator to have -19.6dB input power.
Isn't 0dB the goal? My ITV4 PCIe is typically at -9dB to -13dB and I thought that was cutting it close to losing the signal. My Signal to Noise level is very good (never below 35). I figured that was the only thing saving me from seeing picture breakup. I'm surprised you can even tune a channel at -23dB.
post #246 of 869
I think he presented the data in a way that was hard to interpret* as the -23 is how much he is attenuating his hot signal (fios runs hot... I have heard some say about +25 but +8 through + 13 seems the norm) which would have made his signal around -13... Generally 0 is what one should aim for but between -10 and + 10 should be acceptable... but for some reason, it appears the new ceton tuner tunes faster if it has an input around -3 through -5 and above 0 it tunes very slow... I don't know if this is always true or unique to his unit but I have heard at least one other person have a better experience when he brought down his signal below 0.

*{edit: hard to interpret might be the wrong phrasing as it does make sense to list the "variable" of the attenuators first... it just looks strange to see -23, -19, -16 etc as a signal level, which it isn't, as we are so used to looking at signal levels that our minds interpret it as that.}
post #247 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I think he presented the data in a way that was hard to interpret* as the -23 is how much he is attenuating his hot signal (fios runs hot... I have heard some say about +25 but +8 through + 13 seems the norm) which would have made his signal around -13... Generally 0 is what one should aim for but between -10 and + 10 should be acceptable... but for some reason, it appears the new ceton tuner tunes faster if it has an input around -3 through -5 and above 0 it tunes very slow... I don't know if this is always true or unique to his unit but I have heard at least one other person have a better experience when he brought down his signal below 0.

*{edit: hard to interpret might be the wrong phrasing as it does make sense to list the "variable" of the attenuators first... it just looks strange to see -23, -19, -16 etc as a signal level, which it isn't, as we are so used to looking at signal levels that our minds interpret it as that.}

Mine def tunes faster and more reliably with a -3 to -6 signal all around. It did not like a hot signal at all. I too have fios and originally put it in a hot point, directly off my Feed.
post #248 of 869
I have around -13dB to -18dB for all 6 tuners. Tuning varies from 3-30 seconds. My HD Prime was working off the same signal strength and tuning was below 2 seconds. This ceton device is definitely going back. Ceton missed the mark on this one.
post #249 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I think he presented the data in a way that was hard to interpret* as the -23 is how much he is attenuating his hot signal (fios runs hot... I have heard some say about +25 but +8 through + 13 seems the norm) which would have made his signal around -13... Generally 0 is what one should aim for but between -10 and + 10 should be acceptable... but for some reason, it appears the new ceton tuner tunes faster if it has an input around -3 through -5 and above 0 it tunes very slow... I don't know if this is always true or unique to his unit but I have heard at least one other person have a better experience when he brought down his signal below 0.

*{edit: hard to interpret might be the wrong phrasing as it does make sense to list the "variable" of the attenuators first... it just looks strange to see -23, -19, -16 etc as a signal level, which it isn't, as we are so used to looking at signal levels that our minds interpret it as that.}

I was changing out the attenuation, but you guys really do not care about that (I did for the purpose of knowing what I was testing), so I will remove it and put what the tuners read at the front...less confusion that way. I edited my post and bolded the first line of each test run.
Edited by cybrsage - 6/1/13 at 9:53pm
post #250 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by talems View Post

I have around -13dB to -18dB for all 6 tuners. Tuning varies from 3-30 seconds. My HD Prime was working off the same signal strength and tuning was below 2 seconds. This ceton device is definitely going back. Ceton missed the mark on this one.

These results are not scientific by any means, but they show that a good range for input power would be somewhere between -9.2dB and -6dB. If you can put a splitter into your line you can drop the input power by at least 3.5dB - if it is a triple splitter then two of them will be -7dB output lines and that would be perfect. Make sure the splitter goes up to 2.3GHz.
post #251 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

...less confusion that way.
Thanks. I'm easily confused. wink.gif
post #252 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by talems View Post

I have around -13dB to -18dB for all 6 tuners. Tuning varies from 3-30 seconds. My HD Prime was working off the same signal strength and tuning was below 2 seconds. This ceton device is definitely going back. Ceton missed the mark on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

These results are not scientific by any means, but they show that a good range for input power would be somewhere between -9.2dB and -6dB. If you can put a splitter into your line you can drop the input power by at least 3.5dB - if it is a triple splitter then two of them will be -7dB output lines and that would be perfect. Make sure the splitter goes up to 2.3GHz.

talems post clearly shows his signal level is too low and concludes that Ceton has designed a poor device. I don't understand this at all.

Taken from the Ceton website.
Quote:
SNR should be 32-37 and the signal level should be between -12 and +12 with 0 dBmV ideal. The ideal readings are 37 SNR with 0 signal.

cybrsage and others I want to thank you for taking the time to test and post this information about signal level and how it relates to the Infinitv 6 with the current firmware. At least as I understand the desired signal level, it appears that by following your advice, talems would get an even worse signal level. Perhaps, I am missing something, I get confused easily as well.
post #253 of 869
Yes, totem would need to use a signal booster. I have FiOS, which is amazingly hot on the incoming power. For me, I have to use attenuators to reduce the power to acceptable levels (which is a far better position to be in than to have too low incoming power). Using many different attenuation levels, I was able to tweak my incoming power level to find what was fastest. I know Ceton says to have around a 0dB power level, but I found that (at least for my specific tuner set) having between -9.2dB and -6dB gave me the fastest tuning times.

Depending on your incoming power level you will have to either use an amplifier to increase the signal (like totem needs to do) or an attenuator to reduce it (like I need to do). If you need to boost the signal, getting a variable amplification booster would be ideal, you can play with the power level to find the best for your specific situation.
post #254 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

To upgrade or not... I've got an open ticket with Ceton related to a 3 hour recording that stopped at 52 minutes this past Monday night. They had me enable some additional logging in WMC, wait for it to happen again, and send in another diagnostic. I should probably check with them and see what they'd prefer for me to do before upgrading as doing so could obviously have an impact on the results.

I had an open ticket and Ceton suggested that I upgrade to this firmware. I've been busy working this weekend so I haven't had the chance to see if it fixed my pixelation issues. However, tuning speed has noticeably improved.
post #255 of 869
If anyone would like to purchase the 6 tuner Ethernet version from me let me know, i only used it for a day or so.

Didn't realize that the product had a no return policy on newegg.
post #256 of 869
Hello all,

I am looking for some advice. For the past 4 years I have used the Hewlett Packard Z560 Media Center to record my favorite shows. It has a dual analog tuner (which is connected to my cable company) and one HD tuner that captures OTA. The Z560 is now running Windows 7 (32 bit) and has a Pentium D 925 3.0 Ghz CPU and 4 GB (but only using 3 due to OS). This VCR-shaped unit has served me very well and I would like to continue to use it but I have a big issue with my cable company - Charter - who has told me they will go all digital by the end of this year. Once this happens, the dual analog tuner will be pretty much useless (I could hook up a digital box to it but it would be a hassle at best and take me down to just 2 tuners).

So, I am very interested in the USB Ceton line (as there is no room inside the Z560 for a card) but after reading through all 255 posts, I have some questions.

1) There was an early reference to Charter and some sort of issue with cable boxes and a national CC number which I did not understand. Right now I have 3 Motorola DCX3200 on my TVs. Of course I will not be using them if I can get the Ceton to work and I buy several Echos. Has anyone with Charter been successful in getting either the 4 or 6 tuner USB unit to work with a Charter cablecard? Why would it matter if you have a Motorola or Cisco box?

2) What exactly does one gain with the 6 channel USB unit versus the 4, other than 2 additional tuners? Given what I have now, 4 tuners would seem to be fine but does the 6 tuner give me some future-proofing feature that could make the former not work in a few years? I do have a gigabit ethernet network and a 16 port unmanaged/dumb switch and do not like to do stuff wirelessly.

3) Will the Z560 still be able to keep up with either the 4 or 6 tuner USB unit? It does have a 7200 RPM terabyte HD. And will the Ceton work if the unit goes into sleep mode (I know that WMC is responsible for getting the computer into and out of sleep mode but will that allow the external Ceton to work correctly)?

4) Right now, I have never run into any 'sharing' issue with my setup - I can watch programs recorded on the Z560 on my laptop (by copying to local HD). on my other computers (linked network), and on one TV that is using a old DLink DSM-750 media extender. I have also taken these .WTV files, converted them to MP4 and watched them on my Android phone and tablet. Is going to a cablecard recording system going to leave me SOL to move stuff to other computers to watch?

5) Lastly, will the Ceton work with the HD card if I left it in the Z560? Or am I going to have to remove both tuner cards? My preference would be to disable the analog tuner but keep the HD tuner working since I have the antenna, cabling, etc, and since I do lose cable occasionally. It wouldn't cost me anything and give me the option of recording at least one channel should the cable signal die (assuming WMC and Win7 can do this).

Thanks for any input!

Frank
Michigan
post #257 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

If anyone would like to purchase the 6 tuner Ethernet version from me let me know, i only used it for a day or so.

Didn't realize that the product had a no return policy on newegg.

The Infinitv 6 item description on Newegg states the following:
Quote:
Return Policies

This item is covered by Newegg.com's Standard Return Policy.
Return for refund within: 30 days
Return for replacement within: 30 days
Restocking Fee: Yes

Why did you say the product had a no return policy on Newegg?
post #258 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMinMI View Post

Hello all,

I am looking for some advice. For the past 4 years I have used the Hewlett Packard Z560 Media Center to record my favorite shows. It has a dual analog tuner (which is connected to my cable company) and one HD tuner that captures OTA. The Z560 is now running Windows 7 (32 bit) and has a Pentium D 925 3.0 Ghz CPU and 4 GB (but only using 3 due to OS). This VCR-shaped unit has served me very well and I would like to continue to use it but I have a big issue with my cable company - Charter - who has told me they will go all digital by the end of this year. Once this happens, the dual analog tuner will be pretty much useless (I could hook up a digital box to it but it would be a hassle at best and take me down to just 2 tuners).

So, I am very interested in the USB Ceton line (as there is no room inside the Z560 for a card) but after reading through all 255 posts, I have some questions.

1) There was an early reference to Charter and some sort of issue with cable boxes and a national CC number which I did not understand. Right now I have 3 Motorola DCX3200 on my TVs. Of course I will not be using them if I can get the Ceton to work and I buy several Echos. Has anyone with Charter been successful in getting either the 4 or 6 tuner USB unit to work with a Charter cablecard? Why would it matter if you have a Motorola or Cisco box?

2) What exactly does one gain with the 6 channel USB unit versus the 4, other than 2 additional tuners? Given what I have now, 4 tuners would seem to be fine but does the 6 tuner give me some future-proofing feature that could make the former not work in a few years? I do have a gigabit ethernet network and a 16 port unmanaged/dumb switch and do not like to do stuff wirelessly.ento and out of sleep mode but will that allow the external Ceton to work correctly)?

4) Right now, I have never run into any 'sharing' issue with my setup - I can watch programs recorded on the Z560 on my laptop (by copying to local HD). on my other computers (linked network), and on one TV that is using a old DLink DSM-750 media extender. I have also taken these .WTV files, converted them to MP4 and watched them on my Android phone and tablet. Is going to a cablecard recording system going to leave me SOL to move stuff to other computers to watch?

5) Lastly, will the Ceton work with the HD card if I left it in the Z560? Or am I going to have to remove both tuner cards? My preference would be to disable the analog tuner but keep the HD tuner working since I have the antenna, cabling, etc, and since I do lose cable occasionally. It wouldn't cost me anything and give me the option of recording at least one channel should the cable signal die (assuming WMC and Win7 can do this).

Thanks for any input!

Frank
Michigan

1. I think this was just in reference to pairing the CableCARD. We have many customers on Charter
2. We do not make a 6 tuner USB unit - the 6-tuner unit is Ethernet. The primary differences are the interfaces and the number of tuners. Otherwise they are similar.
3. It should be sufficient, though I'm not certain if the video card in that machine can handle it
4. Possibly - you will not be able to watch Copy Once content on another PC (though can watch it on an extender). Copy Freely content can be watched on any PC.
5. Windows Media Center should handle this.
post #259 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

1. I think this was just in reference to pairing the CableCARD. We have many customers on Charter
2. We do not make a 6 tuner USB unit - the 6-tuner unit is Ethernet. The primary differences are the interfaces and the number of tuners. Otherwise they are similar.
3. It should be sufficient, though I'm not certain if the video card in that machine can handle it
4. Possibly - you will not be able to watch Copy Once content on another PC (though can watch it on an extender). Copy Freely content can be watched on any PC.
5. Windows Media Center should handle this.

Thank you for the reply but now I am very confused. I guess I need to re-read the press release as I don't understand how the 6 tuner version works if it uses only an ethernet connection. I only have one port on the computer - does this mean I need a second NIC?

And as for the video card in the Z560, it is a GeForce 7600GS with 256MB DDR2 in the PCI-e. It does have HDMI out which is what I use. I will not be able to change that :-(

Frank
Michigan
post #260 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMinMI View Post

Thank you for the reply but now I am very confused. I guess I need to re-read the press release as I don't understand how the 6 tuner version works if it uses only an ethernet connection. I only have one port on the computer - does this mean I need a second NIC?

...

Frank
Michigan

Both your computer and the Ceton plug into a Ethernet switch which allows them and any other device with a Ethernet port to talk to each other.
post #261 of 869
Many routers, provided by your Internet company, will have Ethernet ports on them...which means they have a built in Ethernet switch. Or you can just buy a cheap gigabit Ethernet switch, something like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833181098

ZyXEL is a good company and that is a good 8 port gigabit Ethernet switch which also supports 9k jumbo frames.
post #262 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by highzone View Post

Both your computer and the Ceton plug into a Ethernet switch which allows them and any other device with a Ethernet port to talk to each other.

So then any computer on the network that has WMC (or some other media center software) can 'talk' to the Ceton and get the video channel it requests? Does that mean three different computers on the network could each record 2 shows at the same time? Or can the Ceton only link to one, and to watch what was recorded previously you have to go to that 'master' computer's HD and stream it?
post #263 of 869
You will need WMC, as that is the only software able to use the CableCard reader fully. You install the software on each PC, run the Digital Cable Advisor on each (found in the very topmost item in WMC..cannot remember its name), then run the WMC setup and boom, there it is. Just note that the programs recorded on one PC might not be available for viewing on another PC.
post #264 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You will need WMC, as that is the only software able to use the CableCard reader fully. You install the software on each PC, run the Digital Cable Advisor on each (found in the very topmost item in WMC..cannot remember its name), then run the WMC setup and boom, there it is. Just note that the programs recorded on one PC might not be available for viewing on another PC.

OK. But I guess I don't see the one answer -- can multiple computers on the same network with WMC record different shows at the same time with just one Ceton? If yes, then I wouldnt have to worry about my Z560 being to old / slow -- I could spread out the desired recordings amongst several computers and then push the finished .WTV file to my server, which is what I do right now (assuming they are not locked).

Frank
post #265 of 869
You can record different shows on different computer at the same time. HOWEVER you will not be able to watch a show recorded on computer A, on computer B, if the show was flagged as "copy once" or "copy never" by the cable company. That means all the premium channels, such as HBO, and even such as USA network, depending on your cable provider.
post #266 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post

You can record different shows on different computer at the same time. HOWEVER you will not be able to watch a show recorded on computer A, on computer B, if the show was flagged as "copy once" or "copy never" by the cable company. That means all the premium channels, such as HBO, and even such as USA network, depending on your cable provider.

Thanks for the information. I was just going to delete my question as I read the detailed spec sheet and they showed that multiple computers can access the tuners (although they said this was beta and they did not say at the same time).

As for HBO, I do not have any premium channels. I do watch a show of two on USA Network but if they are jerks about it (by not allowing me to view it on other devices), I will just watch something else. They can keep their reruns. I remember once when I heard about Mad Men on AMC. I recorded one, then tried to watch it only to get 'blocked'. I never watched it again. Their loss, not mine. With my son having Netflix and me having Amazon Prime, we have plenty of content that is available on all our devices.

Frank
post #267 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMinMI View Post

Thanks for the information. I was just going to delete my question as I read the detailed spec sheet and they showed that multiple computers can access the tuners (although they said this was beta and they did not say at the same time).
What they were referring to as being in "beta" is for tuner pooling that lets you assign all 6 tuners to every pc so if a tuner is available, any pc can grab any available tuner dynamically, They chose to make this a beta since they didn't have a wide enough beta program (the whole tuner was basically a surprise compared to how they announced other products) to test it in the real world also there are little idiosyncrasies with wmc, like live tv always wanting the same tuner, and such issues need to be discovered and documented first ... what has always been supported and not in "beta" is network tuners which has "always" existed (unless you had windows 8 as a host... the 6 ETH is its own host so this isn't a problem for those with win8) that allow you to assign tuners on a pc by pc basis such as 1 computer getting 4 tuners dedicated to that computer and 2 other computers getting 1 tuner each.
post #268 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Many routers, provided by your Internet company, will have Ethernet ports on them...which means they have a built in Ethernet switch. Or you can just buy a cheap gigabit Ethernet switch, something like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833181098

ZyXEL is a good company and that is a good 8 port gigabit Ethernet switch which also supports 9k jumbo frames.

There's a shell shocker deal right now on newegg, $20 Trendnet 8 port switch, I have two of these but with a metal chassis, they have been going strong for a couple years now.

http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-22-145-299-_-06112013_1
post #269 of 869
I was just about to post the shell shocker deal as well, very timely!
post #270 of 869
I have two metal case ones too. They are very reliable.
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