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$1200 sub - Page 2

post #31 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


there is no fairy dust bud...i said 4 xv15's would have more output than 2 xv30's as a side note that had nothing to do with my intitial point. mktheatre confirmed that theory by 2.2db margin. i admit my numbers were a wide variance because i did not know the exact figures. however you initially said the xv15's would have equal or less output. now just man up and admit you were wrong!! do you have paypal? ill buy ya a beer so you can relax. smile.gif

LOL. I'll admit I was wrong, 4 xv15s will have .2db more output than 2 xv30s non-colocated. But at least I was less wrong than your 7db miss...cool.gif

 

Paypal account on the way...I'll STFU for beer anyday. biggrin.gif

 

Do you want to know what's really funny? I'd recommend the 4 xv15s over 2 xv30s as long as the OP had the space!

post #32 of 84
I have to say that while I might always agree with what people say it is nice to see so many people passionate about their AV hobby.
post #33 of 84
I believe I said between 120-126db, so technically I was within range of the correct output. When a range is given you can not target one number. smile.gif

Also I am curious how a Rythmik FV15HP produces the output of 2 XV15's being it has 400 less watts and half the cone surface area? Im not saying it does not, just trying to understand logic about needing twice the power to increase 3db and double the cone surface to increase 3db when adding more subwoofers.

also the op's room is small at 1800-2000^3. I think it would be a safe bet that all 4 subs would co locate in that small enviroment and he would see the 2.2db gain. also the entire room would have more even coverage. so for 200.00 it would be a good investment. not to mention the xv30 is out of stock right now.

OP, dont rule out dual XS30's either. They will give up some in the 15-30hz range, but will make it up in the midbass range. also they are a smaller foot print and being sealed would pressurize that room down into the single digits...i believe they are in stock and a pair would be just over 2200.00
Edited by basshead81 - 5/15/13 at 6:46am
post #34 of 84
It uses a different driver and enclosure. Obviously the driver has more dispacement and more sensitive to have more spl and less power. Not all drivers are the same. We are comparing subs with the same drivers with the XV subs. Unless someone needs that extra 2 dBs it will go unnoticed. I have compared many different sub setups and I achieve the same thing with my 13's I could with my 18's I just needed a few more.
post #35 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It uses a different driver and enclosure. Obviously the driver has more dispacement and more sensitive to have more spl and less power. Not all drivers are the same. We are comparing subs with the same drivers with the XV subs. Unless someone needs that extra 2 dBs it will go unnoticed. I have compared many different sub setups and I achieve the same thing with my 13's I could with my 18's I just needed a few more.

Ok, so for 200.00 difference would you not consider it a good move? You seem to be the more subs the better type, so I think we agree for the ability to smooth the response it may be well worth it. And back to my original point, 2 xv15's will probably be plenty. my point was instead of looking at xv30's, look into quad xv15's, since they 30's are out of stock and the 15's will offer better coverage and a slight bump in db.
post #36 of 84
Yep, in this case you can smooth out the response and keep similar output at the same time. People like myself buy $200 EQ's to smooth responses all the time so this is no different except it could take up more space but if one is buying 4 subs that was already considered. I have 6 dual driver subs sealed in sealed room. I always get 6 dBs of spl adding or doubling subs, even when they are 13 feet apart on the same plane.
post #37 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yep, in this case you can smooth out the response and keep similar output at the same time. People like myself buy $200 EQ's to smooth responses all the time so this is no different except it could take up more space but if one is buying 4 subs that was already considered. I have 6 dual driver subs sealed in sealed room. I always get 6 dBs of spl adding or doubling subs, even when they are 13 feet apart on the same plane.

I guess I meant to even or deliver the same output out across all seats more or less...wouldnt 4 subs do a better job than 2 for this?
what eq do you use? I still have not bought one yet...
post #38 of 84
Thread Starter 
So, for 4 subs, where are the best location for each. I read in each corner. But I never had a sub before. I'm more if a videophile. When I finally heard a correct HT setup with excellent audio, I chose to got the AT screen route in my theater. I seen subs located behind the AT screen in some theaters, but I don't know what's the best for my situation
post #39 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

So, for 4 subs, where are the best location for each. I read in each corner. But I never had a sub before. I'm more if a videophile. When I finally heard a correct HT setup with excellent audio, I chose to got the AT screen route in my theater. I seen subs located behind the AT screen in some theaters, but I don't know what's the best for my situation
moving them around and measuring with a mic and software such as REW is the only way to get a accurate answer. which is another reason i recomended xv15's, they will be alot easier to place. 75lbs(new design) vs 150lbs. Take note before the new design, the xv15 weighed around 95lbs.

Oh and I just spoke with Tom and he confirmed that 4 xv15's would yield up to a 2.5db gain, but at the output levels were talking its not going to be a huge difference. I would start with 2 xv15's, then if you need more, add to them. Tom will still give you a multi sub discount...also do not be afraid to contact him, as he is one of the most helpful guys I have met out of all the ID sub companies I have contacted. He will be able to give you a better answer than myself. Im no expert by any means!!
Edited by basshead81 - 5/15/13 at 8:34am
post #40 of 84
I use a behringer DCX 2496. That was the biggest problem with just one sub was uneven bass response and spl in the seats. I added so many to ensure the whole room would get the same spl and enough treatments where all the seats have a similar response. It really is magical feeling the bass get better around the room. I have 7 seats so I wanted everyone to experience a cinematic event! It would have been so much easier for a single or two seats.
post #41 of 84
Each one of my subs weigh 200 pounds! They are kind of small too!
post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I use a behringer DCX 2496. That was the biggest problem with just one sub was uneven bass response and spl in the seats. I added so many to ensure the whole room would get the same spl and enough treatments where all the seats have a similar response. It really is magical feeling the bass get better around the room. I have 7 seats so I wanted everyone to experience a cinematic event! It would have been so much easier for a single or two seats.

See that's where I am getting at...when I run one xv15 I lose spl in the other seating areas, but when I turn the other on, then the other seats get to feel what I do. That is the biggest advantage to having multiple subs. Smoothing the FR response may occur if you are lucky but in the end room treatments and eq'ing most likely will be needed. In my case, the three main seating positions measure almost identical, so eqing the peak would leave me with a nice graph. I might need to bump the 15-20hz range up, but its not terrible for no treatments or eq.
post #43 of 84
Your graph is good except for that huge peak. What happens with a peak like that is when there is 30hz material, which is plentiful, it will drown out anything below. When you take that peak you will now feel the low end much more and like it. However, if you get to used to high spl at 30hz and start liking the lows from the flat graph this is where one chases the output at 125 dBs full band! That is what happened to me. So here comes the 4 sub minimum crowd, it happens.
post #44 of 84
Thread Starter 
How do you guys think about adding buttkickers along with subs?
post #45 of 84
It adds shake where your subs stop. A subwoofer producing those low effects is different, you feel the shake, wave, pressure, tingling, etc...
post #46 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It adds shake where your subs stop. A subwoofer producing those low effects is different, you feel the shake, wave, pressure, tingling, etc...

I heard how it adds good effects while watching movies. I never seen them in person but I'm curious about them. But if its pointless with really good subs, I will not bother researching them
post #47 of 84
Well define a good sub? A great ported sub my only go to 15hz so a buttkicker would add to the effect with shake to 5hz! I would get whatever the budget allows.
post #48 of 84
Thread Starter 
I was leaning toward the PSA subs or rhythmitik fv15hp. It might be good to add later, since I will be adding more subs later on too
post #49 of 84
Buttkickers are cool with ported subs because it gives you something to feel below tune. I would use them with ported subs unless you had LLTs tuned to 10-11 hz.
post #50 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Also I am curious how a Rythmik FV15HP produces the output of 2 XV15's being it has 400 less watts and half the cone surface area? Im not saying it does not, just trying to understand logic about needing twice the power to increase 3db and double the cone surface to increase 3db when adding more subwoofers.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It uses a different driver and enclosure. Obviously the driver has more dispacement and more sensitive to have more spl and less power. Not all drivers are the same. We are comparing subs with the same drivers with the XV subs. Unless someone needs that extra 2 dBs it will go unnoticed. I have compared many different sub setups and I achieve the same thing with my 13's I could with my 18's I just needed a few more.

That's the crazy thing about the FV15HP. It extends so low for a moderately sized ported subwoofer, and it does so with authority! If you go to data-bass, there are only 4 subs that best its output at 12.5hz; and they are all DIY options that are roughly the size of refrigerators being powered by pro-amps with 1000's of watts. To put more things in perspective, the Rythmik even bests the commercial Paradigm Sub2 and the DIY LMS Ultra 5400 sealed at that frequency! And it all does this with a 15in driver and 600W? Talk about fairy dust...don't know how they pull it off. Kudos to Brian and team.

 

Now, granted there is much more to a sub than just 12.5hz...fortunately, the FV15HP delivers in those areas as well. Full disclosure: I own one. smile.gif

 

To the OP, if you think you'll add more down the line, I would definitely go with the FV15HP, enjoy it (and you will), and then add another later down the line.

 

Another option I like for your room is 2 XS30s now, and then two more later. It's more costly, but you start getting meaningful output around 10hz and below with 4 XS30s if I had to guess...

post #51 of 84
Can't compare ported to sealed, especially around tune.
post #52 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Can't compare ported to sealed, especially around tune.

Why can't you? Especially when the ported tune is in traditionally in 'sealed' territory?

 

It all depends on your goals. The FV15HP in most rooms will get you usuable output in the 10hz range. If your hunt is below 10, count the Rythmik out. However, IMO, 10hz is a pretty good sweet spot.

post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

That's the crazy thing about the FV15HP. It extends so low for a moderately sized ported subwoofer, and it does so with authority! If you go to data-bass, there are only 4 subs that best its output at 12.5hz; and they are all DIY options that are roughly the size of refrigerators being powered by pro-amps with 1000's of watts. To put more things in perspective, the Rythmik even bests the commercial Paradigm Sub2 and the DIY LMS Ultra 5400 sealed at that frequency! And it all does this with a 15in driver and 600W? Talk about fairy dust...don't know how they pull it off. Kudos to Brian and team.


Now, granted there is much more to a sub than just 12.5hz...fortunately, the FV15HP delivers in those areas as well. Full disclosure: I own one. 
smile.gif


To the OP, if you think you'll add more down the line, I would definitely go with the FV15HP, enjoy it (and you will), and then add another later down the line.

Another option I like for your room is 2 XS30s now, and then two more later. It's more costly, but you start getting meaningful output around 10hz and below with 4 XS30s if I had to guess...

I seem to recall Tom V saying that a single XS30 would hit 100db @ 10hz.

Sorry I just checked my old email from Tom and he said 93-94db.
Edited by jbrown15 - 5/15/13 at 7:55pm
post #54 of 84
Because what if you port the LMS with a 13 hz tune? Do you think it would not gain a whole lot of output?
post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I seem to recall Tom V saying that a single XS30 would hit 100db @ 10hz.

Sorry I just checked my old email from Tom and he said 93-94db.

sounds about right..i believe tom told me dual xs30 would yield around 100db in the 7-10hz range.
post #56 of 84
Thread Starter 
I think you guys have sold me on getting dual subs to start. My HT will be with a AT projector screen that will be between 10-12ft wide. I want excellent sound, so what should I look at when I'm considering speakers? Going for a 5.2 system to start. I'm most likely going to dip into my speakers money for the subs, since I planned on a 7.1 set up at first. With dual psa xs30s, should I consider a front stage like the Kef Q900s that I can get for $650 each or will something cheaper be just as good.
post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

IAlso I am curious how a Rythmik FV15HP produces the output of 2 XV15's being it has 400 less watts and half the cone surface area? Im not saying it does not, just trying to understand logic about needing twice the power to increase 3db and double the cone surface to increase 3db when adding more subwoofers.
Per Brian, it is the servo design that does not require big Amp to achieve great output.
post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Per Brian, it is the servo design that does not require big Amp to achieve great output.

It has to be the sensitivity and the class of amp that requires less power. A class D amp uses much less power than a class AB for example.

BTW, the FV15HP is tuned to about 12 hz in one port mode and so it should have more 12.5 hz output as it is one of the only few tuned that low. Look at the low tuned XXX ported sub to give an idea of comparing ported low to ported low.

The 15 inch in the FV15HP is 20mm and the XV 15 subs are what? 2 inch peak to peak means they have to be more than that, no? If so then either the FV15 drivers are much more sensitive, underrated, or using max power for their design. Conversely, the XV15 drivers are either over rated, less sensitive, or don't use enough power because for a same size driver with the same power and more displacement(?) get 6 dBs less spl at 20hz is curious.
post #59 of 84
Either the FV15HP is a freak of nature or something does not jive in the specs for one or the other. Either way, great job on the FV15HP as it seems to be an over achiever compared to other 15s.
post #60 of 84
I don't think the FV15HP is that far out in terms of performance per its specs. It's just a well-executed 15" ported sub. If you place a good driver with a beefy amp in a box of about those dimensions, I think that is about what you can expect. SVS manages to squeeze a similar level of performance out of a 13" driver (granted it's a very heavy duty driver).
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