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Myro:Air - Airplay / UPnP Streamer with Wolfson WM8741 DAC - Page 2

post #31 of 68
I went to my:ro forum, and it is pretty dead. No updates at all.
post #32 of 68
Thread Starter 
Still alive - made some adjustments to the case and should have those beginning next week.
post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post

Still alive - made some adjustments to the case and should have those beginning next week.

Thanks for the update.
post #34 of 68
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to give a quick update -- Myro:Air is complete and production ready. Next step is certification and then it will go on preorder. It looks even better in person! Thanks for the support.

Front of Myro:Air


Back of Myro:Air



Cheers!
Danny
Edited by mavromatis - 9/15/13 at 8:51am
post #35 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post

Just wanted to give a quick update -- Myro:Air is complete and production ready. Next step is certification and then it will go on preorder. It looks even better in person! Thanks for the support.

Front of Myro:Air


Back of Myro:Air



Cheers!
Danny

Looking good! I know it kind of pricey, but I might be able to get one....almost got the wife convinced lol. I see that it has an optical out. Does it support more than just 2 Channel stereo in this mode?
post #36 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post

Just wanted to give a quick update -- Myro:Air is complete and production ready. Next step is certification and then it will go on preorder. It looks even better in person! Thanks for the support.
Good to see it production ready, Danny. Not sure if you're up for any suggestions at this late stage, but have you thought about using the front of the device to display AirPlay metadata? Seeing the audio track's info, playback progress & even cover art on a largish display would really be the icing on the cake!
post #37 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Good to see it production ready, Danny. Not sure if you're up for any suggestions at this late stage, but have you thought about using the front of the device to display AirPlay metadata? Seeing the audio track's info, playback progress & even cover art on a largish display would really be the icing on the cake!

As it is the device is $599. Doing that would make it cost even more. I usually watch the metadata and audio track info on my iDevices anyway. However, I do agree that it would be nice. May be having the option to attach an iPad to it and making that the screen. Or iPhone.
post #38 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Good to see it production ready, Danny. Not sure if you're up for any suggestions at this late stage, but have you thought about using the front of the device to display AirPlay metadata? Seeing the audio track's info, playback progress & even cover art on a largish display would really be the icing on the cake!

That is completely possible, but for as a future evolution of the product. This time around was focus to bring 2-way metadata and transport control to 3rd Party control/audio systems (Crestron, Control4, Russound, etc) with high quality audio output via Wolfson WM8741 DAC -- trying to keep as much "Made in U.S.A." as possible. The architecture of the system can do A LOT and grow with us.
post #39 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

As it is the device is $599. Doing that would make it cost even more. I usually watch the metadata and audio track info on my iDevices anyway. However, I do agree that it would be nice. May be having the option to attach an iPad to it and making that the screen. Or iPhone.

You are correct -- adding more circuits and components translates to more costs (parts and case assembly) -- we are doing small runs so economies of scale are lost. Perhaps if we sell a lot that will open up all sorts of options smile.gif

You will be able to plug in your iPhone/iPad and charge and also play audio via USB Host mode -- like "docking" so what you are saying is completely possible.
post #40 of 68
Exactly just like a docking station with full control and metadata.
post #41 of 68
Thread Starter 
A few updates related to Myro:Air:

- Version 1.0.0 of the RS232 protocol has been released (http://www.myrocontrol.com/forum/index.php?topic=45.msg63#msg63)
- Crestron module for two-way metadata and transport control has been completed and will be posted once we create an example project
- Finalizing Myro:Air's internal webpage design then sending units off for certification

Thanks!
Danny
post #42 of 68
Good to see the RS232 commands for metadata & sys info requests. Are you thinking of providing similar service via the network, eg telnet, perhaps?
post #43 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Good to see the RS232 commands for metadata & sys info requests. Are you thinking of providing similar service via the network, eg telnet, perhaps?

IP based control (on roadmap for future update) and even Telnet access is technically possible, we have just limited scope for control to RS232 and Russound RNET in this release version to get the product shipped. That should cover 90% (if not 99%) of systems that can control it. My personal concern with IP based control is that via RS232 you get network problem notification via a status poll (and event) whereas with IP control if the network is down -- there is no feedback which seems weird for a control system. But I also see the pros behind it when there are no network issues...
post #44 of 68
Thread Starter 
For those keeping track at home, Myro:Air is now available for pre-order!
post #45 of 68
I see you have it working with Crestron and Russound. Any chance it will work with Elan g!, C4 or RTI as well? If it works with Elan I may order one. Was debating getting the Mirage, but it does more than I need it to do (5 zones of separate audio) replicates functions the Elan already has (hard drive, streaming of iTunes library, etc.). I really want airplay functionality controlled by the Elan (great for when friends come over and want us to hear something they have on their phone). But that isn't worth paying >$3,000 for a Mirage. So my next thought (before seeing your product) was to buy a new receiver for the family room television. So I guess my question about the Myro:Air is, how much better is your DAC than the ones used by Pioneer Elite or Yamaha in their $1,000 receivers? For a few hundred dollars more I get the latest model receiver, full of features (including airplay) and they have two way control with Elan g! (and most other control systems)?

Thanks,

EW
post #46 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FEW View Post

I see you have it working with Crestron and Russound. Any chance it will work with Elan g!, C4 or RTI as well? If it works with Elan I may order one. Was debating getting the Mirage, but it does more than I need it to do (5 zones of separate audio) replicates functions the Elan already has (hard drive, streaming of iTunes library, etc.). I really want airplay functionality controlled by the Elan (great for when friends come over and want us to hear something they have on their phone). But that isn't worth paying >$3,000 for a Mirage. So my next thought (before seeing your product) was to buy a new receiver for the family room television. So I guess my question about the Myro:Air is, how much better is your DAC than the ones used by Pioneer Elite or Yamaha in their $1,000 receivers? For a few hundred dollars more I get the latest model receiver, full of features (including airplay) and they have two way control with Elan g! (and most other control systems)?

Thanks,

EW

EW,

Myro:Air can be controlled and metadata made available to any controller that has RS-232 capabilities (including Elan g!, C4 and RTI) -- album, artist, song title as well as elapsed time (updated every second). Here is our RS-232 control protocol.

As far as which DAC is better? A lot of this is very subjective, but I personally chose and believe the Wolfson WM8741 is one of the best, if not the best sounding DAC around. Most standalone DAC's that feature the WM8741 typically cost over $400 alone (check out audio advisor). To put this in perspective, the raw Wolfson WM8741 component costs $13 (qty 1) whereas most DACs (chips) in mainstream consumer electronics cost in the tens of cents. We also use Wima (German) and Nichicon (Japanese) Audio grade capacitors in the output stage. Myro:Air also uses much less power and produces much less heat than a full-blown AV receiver and is much smaller.

Hope this helps your decision either way you go...

Cheers!
Danny
post #47 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alx330 View Post

Not something I'm in the market for but no DLNA DMR support ?

A lot of devices from Windows, XBMC to Android devices only 'play to' using DLNA digital media renderers. Being airplay only greatly limits the number of applications that can use of the device.

We listened! Myro:Air supports DLNA/uPnP DMR. Video below demonstrates it using a Samsung Tablet.


post #48 of 68
Danny,

Excellent to see you've got the Myro:Air to stream under UPnP/DLNA!

What music file formats & resolutions does it support as a UPnP/DLNA renderer?
Does it support gapless playback when used with a gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA control point (via the UPnP SetNextAVTransportURI functionality)?
Does it support seek, as well as standard pause, skip f/b, etc?
Any chance of DSD file (native or via DoP) streaming too, to further exploit its Wolfson WM8741 DAC's capabilities?

Regards
John
Edited by Cebolla - 3/12/14 at 12:45pm
post #49 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

What music file formats & resolutions does it support as a UPnP/DLNA renderer?

Here's a chart of what Myro:Air can stream over uPnP:

Format: MP3 (extension .mp3)
Sampling Frequency: 8kHz-48kHz
Audio Word Size: 16 bit
Bit-rate: 8 - 320kbps (VBR/CBR)
Tested stream over uPnP: YES, CONFIRMED WORKS.

Format: LPCM (extension .wav)
Sampling Frequency: 8kHz-192kHz
Audio Word Size: 16 bit
Tested stream over uPnP: YES, CONFIRMED WORKS.

Format: AIFF
Sampling Frequency: 32kHz-192kHz
Audio Word Size: 16 bit
Tested stream over uPnP: YES, CONFIRMED WORKS.

Format: FLAC (extension .flac)
Sampling Frequency: 8kHz-192kHz
Audio Word Size: 16 bit
Tested stream over uPnP: YES, CONFIRMED WORKS.
Test Samples from: Bower & Wilkins

Format: ALAC (extension .mp4)
Sampling Frequency: 32kHz-96kHz
Audio Word Size: 16 bit
Tested stream over uPnP: YES, CONFIRMED WORKS.
Test Samples from: Bower & Wilkins

Format: WMA (extension .wma)
Sampling Frequency: 8kHz-48kHz
Bit-rate: 5 - 320kbps (VBR/CBR)
Audio Word Size: 16 bit
Tested stream over uPnP: YES, CONFIRMED WORKS.

Format: AAC (extension .aac)
Sampling Frequency: 32kHz-96kHz
Bit-rate: 16 - 320kbps (VBR/CBR)
Audio Word Size: 16 bit
Tested stream over uPnP: YES, CONFIRMED WORKS.

Format: DSD
Sampling Frequency: 2.822Mhz
Bit-rate: 5.644Mbps (Stereo)
Tested stream over uPnP: NOT YET

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Does it support gapless playback when used with a gapless supporting UPnP/DLNA control point (via the UPnP SetNextAVTransportURI functionality)?

Yes. Gapless Playback is enabled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Does it support seek, as well as standard pause, skip f/b, etc?

Yes. "Byte seek" is enabled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Any chance of DSD file (native or via DoP) streaming too, to further exploit its Wolfson WM8741 DAC's capabilities?

Yes. Our processor supports DSD and we need to enable it.

Thanks!
Danny
Edited by mavromatis - 3/13/14 at 6:46pm
post #50 of 68
Many thanks for the info Danny. What an excellent UPnP/DLNA spec!

Hope testing goes well and you get to confirm that all the formats work.

John
post #51 of 68
Thread Starter 
So I tested all the formats using Linn Kinsky (for iOS/OSX) and BubbleuPnP (Android) and have confirmed which formats work with uPnP DMR on Myro:Air -- see post #49 for results.

I cannot confirm AIFF playback support over uPnP as I cannot find a client that can stream it. AIFF files don't seem to be recognized and don't seem to be sent to Myro:Air for processing (which it should be able to play them). How important is AIFF support given all the other formats we support?

As for DSD, this one may take a bit more digging and require some settings tweaked on Myro:Air -- should be able to support, no guarantee it will be in the shipping version of our firmware scheduled for May 1st. After researching DSD, I'm pretty excited about adding support for it... as I stated, our processor can handle it, it's just a matter of us enabling and testing.
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post

So I tested all the formats using Linn Kinsky (for iOS/OSX) and BubbleuPnP (Android) and have confirmed which formats work with uPnP DMR on Myro:Air -- see post #49 for results.
The Linn Kinsky control point is intended for OpenHome Media (ohMedia), aka UPnP with Linn extensions, streamers, though can be used reasonably well with most standard UPnP/DLNA renderers. The BubbleUPnP app is intended to be used with both standard UPnP/DLNA and ohMedia renderers. Does the Myro:Air support ohMedia streaming or standard UPnP/DLNA streaming?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post

I cannot confirm AIFF playback support over uPnP as I cannot find a client that can stream it. AIFF files don't seem to be recognized and don't seem to be sent to Myro:Air for processing (which it should be able to play them). How important is AIFF support given all the other formats we support?
I'm not too sure by what you mean by the term 'client' - usually the renderer/streamer/player itself is called the client. Are you referring to a third party module that you are using in the Myro:Air to perform the UPnP streaming? I personally don't use AIFF files, but there are some, mainly in the Apple community, that must use it because they require both lossless and no compression. It also contains music tags/metadata, which standard WAV doesn't have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post

As for DSD, this one may take a bit more digging and require some settings tweaked on Myro:Air -- should be able to support, no guarantee it will be in the shipping version of our firmware scheduled for May 1st. After researching DSD, I'm pretty excited about adding support for it... as I stated, our processor can handle it, it's just a matter of us enabling and testing.
DSD support would certainly be a real bonus. Don't forget to test for both the tagged .dsf & untagged .dff formats when you get round to it.
Edited by Cebolla - 3/13/14 at 4:12am
post #53 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

The Linn Kinsky control point is intended for OpenHome Media (ohMedia), aka UPnP with Linn extensions, streamers, though can be used reasonably well with most standard UPnP/DLNA renderers. The BubbleUPnP app is intended to be used with both standard UPnP/DLNA and ohMedia renderers. Does the Myro:Air support ohMedia streaming or standard UPnP/DLNA streaming?

Standard UPnP/DLNA Streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

I'm not too sure by what you mean by the term 'client' - usually the renderer/streamer/player itself is called the client. Are you referring to a third party module that you are using in the Myro:Air to perform the UPnP streaming? I personally don't use AIFF files, but there are some, mainly in the Apple community, that must use it because they require both lossless and no compression. It also contains music tags/metadata, which standard WAV doesn't have.

Yes, I'm referring to the third party module 'client' used to perform the streaming easily. ALAC is supported which is what the Apple Community uses -- at least what I use... biggrin.gif. Which one do you recommend is best for testing (most popular)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

DSD support would certainly be a real bonus. Don't forget to test for both the tagged .dsf & untagged .dff formats when you get round to it.

Will do! Both .dsf and .dff should be possible.
post #54 of 68
Using an ohMedia controller on a standard UPnP/DLNA renderer doesn't normally support gapless, since they use different methods for this. The BubbleUPnP Server application (not to be confused with the BubbleUPnP Android app) can be run on a computer and some NASs to provide additional UPnP services, one of which is to create a virtual ohMedia renderer from an existing standard UPnP/DLNA renderer. It will then allow the gapless supporting standard UPnP/UPnP to be 'fully' controlled by an ohMedia control point. So gapless can now be supported using the ohMedia controller, plus it can have the additional benefits of behaving as an ohMedia renderer - namely a cached playlist and multiple control point support:
www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver


Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post

Yes, I'm referring to the third party module 'client' used to perform the streaming easily. ALAC is supported which is what the Apple Community uses -- at least what I use... biggrin.gif. Which one do you recommend is best for testing (most popular)?
I agree with you that ALAC is likely to be much more popular than AIFF. Just thought it best to mention that there are certain so called audiophiles that don't 'believe in' using compressed music files. Actually, if there is a lossless file format that's missing from an audio streamer it's usually ALAC rather than AIFF (non-Apple approved devices, presumably), so I'm a bit surprised that it's not supported by the streaming module you're using.

Talking about audiophiles, have you thought about announcing the Myro:Air on the networking & streaming forum of the Computer Audiophile site:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/
That $599 price point for an AirPlay and UPnP/DLNA supporting renderer, with high qualty DAC and the potential of DSD network streaming would certainly cause a lot of interest!
post #55 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Using an ohMedia controller on a standard UPnP/DLNA renderer doesn't normally support gapless, since they use different methods for this. The BubbleUPnP Server application (not to be confused with the BubbleUPnP Android app) can be run on a computer and some NASs to provide additional UPnP services, one of which is to create a virtual ohMedia renderer from an existing standard UPnP/DLNA renderer. It will then allow the gapless supporting standard UPnP/UPnP to be 'fully' controlled by an ohMedia control point. So gapless can now be supported using the ohMedia controller, plus it can have the additional benefits of behaving as an ohMedia renderer - namely a cached playlist and multiple control point support:
www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver
I agree with you that ALAC is likely to be much more popular than AIFF. Just thought it best to mention that there are certain so called audiophiles that don't 'believe in' using compressed music files. Actually, if there is a lossless file format that's missing from an audio streamer it's usually ALAC rather than AIFF (non-Apple approved devices, presumably), so I'm a bit surprised that it's not supported by the streaming module you're using.

Talking about audiophiles, have you thought about announcing the Myro:Air on the networking & streaming forum of the Computer Audiophile site:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/
That $599 price point for an AirPlay and UPnP/DLNA supporting renderer, with high qualty DAC and the potential of DSD network streaming would certainly cause a lot of interest!

Thanks for all the feedback -- tell you what, can you contact me directly and I'll ship you out a unit when I get the first run in a few weeks -- I have a few units reserved for demo/press reviews. If you are up for it, perhaps you can help test and make sure it works as expected via uPnP. We've been so focused on AirPlay/iOS support/certification that I could use some help from someone that knows more about uPnP from an audiophile perspective. There seems to be lots of "competing" formats and I'd like to capture as many as I can.
Edited by mavromatis - 3/17/14 at 8:32am
post #56 of 68
Thread Starter 
Updated post #49 with all formats Myro:Air supports using UPnP DMR. Got AIFF working! DSD testing/support is next, but it will require we update our firmware to enable it which most likely will be after we ship the May 1st orders.

Equipment Used:
- Myro:Air
- AssetUPnP running on Macbook Pro (10.9.2 Mavricks) pointing to iTunes library and Misc Audio Files (FLAC, ALAC, WAV, AIFF)
- BubbleUPnP running on Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1

Thanks!
Danny
post #57 of 68
Thread Starter 
I'm trying to test sending DSD (.dff / .dsf) over to Myro:Air (UPnP DMR) and AssetUPnP doesn't seem to have support for DSD files. Any other AV servers that support DSD?
Edited by mavromatis - 3/16/14 at 8:28pm
post #58 of 68
Hi Danny,

The excellent free music dedicated MinimServer definitely supports both DSD file formats - it can also transcode the DSD files to DoP (as a WAV file), via its MinimStreamer optional component (another option to test the Wolfson WM8741 DAC's capabilities with, perhaps?):
http://minimserver.com/features.html

John
Edited by Cebolla - 3/17/14 at 2:38am
post #59 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

Hi Danny,

The excellent free music dedicated MinimServer definitely supports both DSD file formats - it can also transcode the DSD files to DoP (as a WAV file), via its MinimStreamer optional component (another option to test the Wolfson WM8741 DAC's capabilities with, perhaps?):
http://minimserver.com/features.html

John

Nice! Will install MinimStreamer and report back. So if I test the DSD to DoP component, then technically it could be used with our current firmware as that supports WAV (8kHz-192kHz)? But I take it most like to stream DSD (dsf & dff) files directly?
post #60 of 68
Yes, that's right. Using MinimServer this way allows any current streamer (so long as it can stream WAV files) to be used with a DoP supporting DAC (usually externally attached for most, though of course is also handy for the Myro:Air's current firmware).

Certainly native DSD file formats are starting to be available commercially, so the ideal would be to be able to stream those formats directly.
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