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ABC's Joss Whedon/Marvel Cinema Universe tie-in: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - Page 8

post #211 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

And who thought that at the time? No one knew the cast at the time other than the fact that several of the actors had been on Buffy and/or Angel. The ratings were terrible and very few people got the idea or Joss' mix of drama and clever comedy. In two shows you are already declaring the cast bland and the dialog dull.

Why does familiarity have anything to do with it? You don't need name stars to make a good cast. A well chosen cast does that for itself and every person on the Firefly team was significantly more memorable, charismatic and (apart from Summer Glau) experienced than on SHIELD. Go read some of the first reviews of Firefly and find some that criticized the cast or characters if you can. What the majority of critics did not like was the genre mashup of cowboys on horses in space, they had little problem with actors or dialog.

And nobody got it? Everyone who watched Buffy and Angel had no problem with the drama and comedy mix. Joss Whedon had already well established himself as a smart wordsmith after years in the spotlight on Buffy. Another show with a cast of relative unknowns that was well chosen and memorable. The reason the ratings were low for Firefly was not because nobody "got it" it was the same audience he already had. The ratings were low by Fox standards but on The WB (where his fan base came from) it would have been just fine.

SHIELD is being propped up by Clark Gregg right now. The only other actor with any presence has been reduced to a silent pilot. The rest are just interchangeable with any young Hollywood types and without the snappy dialog and self-awareness of Whedon's self-penned series they have nothing interesting to say to make them any more dimensional.
Edited by VisionOn - 10/4/13 at 7:14pm
post #212 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post

I am now a Firefly fan (a Flan).

If you were a real 'Firefly' fan you'd call yourself a Browncoat.

post #213 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

If you were a real 'Firefly' fan you'd call yourself a Browncoat.

Very true. I was making a reference to an interview with Morena Baccarin where she said that the cast started calling the fans "Flans" because "Firefly Fans" was a tongue twister. This was probably before the Browncoats phrase was coined.
post #214 of 988
I agree that Firefly was a strong show from the word "go" than the other Whedon shows.

Go back and watch the Buffy first episode and be honest... even if you like the series... that first episode of Buffy didn't win any prizes. The characters were not well established either. It took most of that first season for Buffy to figure out what kind of show that it wanted to be long-term.

I'm not saying Shield is Buffy... but I'm saying it has more in common with Buffy's beginnings than it does Firefly's.

Meanwhile... as to my bouncing around of opinions... I agree I'm all over the place on some aspects. I feel like this show can do well aimed for a cult following and used to sell the movies... and I think that is where it ultimately will be aimed... but I can't tell right now if they are gearing for that audience OR trying to bring in a wider TV audience. I'm not sure this show knows what it wants to be just yet.
post #215 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post

I am now a Firefly fan (a Flan). But I remember watching a few minutes of the episode where they were transporting cattle and it just looked strange and I flipped the channel.
One of the biggest problems for Firefly was that they didn't start with the pilot, which introduced the characters, as any pilot would. Kinda hard for a show to start showing what it is when the network won't let it.

IDK, I never even heard of it until years after it aired. Now I love it.
post #216 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Go back and watch the Buffy first episode and be honest... even if you like the series... that first episode of Buffy didn't win any prizes. The characters were not well established either. It took most of that first season for Buffy to figure out what kind of show that it wanted to be long-term.

Some of my favourite shows have terrible pilots (and first seasons, for that matter). Star Trek: TNG and Voyager specifically come to mind, the former of which actually sucked pretty badly for its first two seasons. That's why I never judge a show based solely on its pilot or even its first few episodes. Some shows start out poorly and find their feet later, so sticking with them can prove rewarding in the long term.
post #217 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiky View Post

One of the biggest problems for Firefly was that they didn't start with the pilot, which introduced the characters, as any pilot would. Kinda hard for a show to start showing what it is when the network won't let it.

IDK, I never even heard of it until years after it aired. Now I love it.

I caught the first episode of Firefly, and didn't really like it, don't really know why, and DVRs weren't as readily available then. It just didn't do it for me. After the show was over I watched it a couple of times and loved it, I don't know why I didn't like it, I guess I was wanting another supernatural show and wasn't ready for sci-fi from Whedon. I got totally frustrated the first year of Dollhouse, but man the second season was nothing short of great. Loved Angel from the get go, but of course I knew almost all the characters from Buffy when it spun off.

So, considering all the above, I'll definitely stick with SHIELD for the time being, I have faith it will be good and I'm hoping it has time to develop, which I think it probably will.
post #218 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

From the quote in the latest episode, he seems to be aware of it on some level. She said the whole plane and young team was like a mid-life crisis, and he replied, more like an after-life crisis. That hints he is aware of SOMETHING. His comments about being stabbed through the chest also sound like he is aware of what happened.


I think the more telling sign is the "Tahiti is amazing". He has said that at least per episode thus far. I think that will be the trigger to the shenanigans.
post #219 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovswr View Post

I think the more telling sign is the "Tahiti is amazing". He has said that at least per episode thus far. I think that will be the trigger to the shenanigans.

No, it's a magical place.
post #220 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebkell View Post

I caught the first episode of Firefly, and didn't really like it, don't really know why, and DVRs weren't as readily available then. It just didn't do it for me. After the show was over I watched it a couple of times and loved it, I don't know why I didn't like it, I guess I was wanting another supernatural show and wasn't ready for sci-fi from Whedon. I got totally frustrated the first year of Dollhouse, but man the second season was nothing short of great. Loved Angel from the get go, but of course I knew almost all the characters from Buffy when it spun off.

So, considering all the above, I'll definitely stick with SHIELD for the time being, I have faith it will be good and I'm hoping it has time to develop, which I think it probably will.

I watched Firefly sequentially on Netflix and to be honest it didn't become enthralling till the "Our Mrs Reynolds" episode. So far SHIELD has been good enough to continue watching with my kids, can't recall the last time we watched a show together and I expect it to improve.
post #221 of 988
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

No, it's a magical place.
I've seen speculation that Tahiti is one of the 9 realms.
post #222 of 988
post #223 of 988
I hope it does improve and find its rhythym and viewers. It's good to have a break from cop shows, lawyers shows and reality TV.
post #224 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I've seen speculation that Tahiti is one of the 9 realms.

Hmmm....that is actually interesting speculation. An other-worldly healing process since Thor is now part of the equation?

I was finally able to go back and watch the first episode on demand (after the accidental dvr deletion). Big difference between the two. I watched the second episode first thinking I wouldn't get to see the first, and didn't feel there was much meat for me to grab onto. I even had concerns about the longevity of the project but I wasn't writing it off yet. However, going back and viewing the pilot made things a whole lot better. I'm adjusting to seeing more "personality" from Coulson. It's a little weird to me. It really has a disjointed feel to me right now but I guess it's supposed to be that way since he just put this "rag-tag" team together. Anybody else have a hard time understanding the techies? Their accents are very thick to me.
post #225 of 988
The combination of the accent WITH the speed in which they talk PLUS ABC's poor audio quality does make it difficult to understand them, I would agree.
post #226 of 988
The real problem is that this is "Level 7", and its a bunch of untried kids. Is Level 8 where the skilled operatives are?

Completely out of character from the movie version of SHIELD. Is it more in line with the comics? I haven't read them, other than just a couple Avengers from way back, not enough to know anything.
post #227 of 988
You know, Ming-Na kicks some serious ass for a 50 year old. I hope they give her some opportunities to actually *act* at some point, since she's by far the most talented and accomplished actor on the show.

I'm enjoying SHIELD so far. Not great, but decent. It has promise.
post #228 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by vfxproducer View Post

You know, Ming-Na kicks some serious ass for a 50 year old. I hope they give her some opportunities to actually *act* at some point, since she's by far the most talented and accomplished actor on the show.

I'm enjoying SHIELD so far. Not great, but decent. It has promise.

This is my take as well. I watched last week's ep again because my wife and daughter had not seen it. First off, I would recommend closed captioning especially for Fitz-Simmons. Also, Joss Whedon likes natural dialog and often people speak over each other or mumble. CC helps a lot. Second, I payed more attention to the supporting cast and felt that they are getting a bad rap here. The point of this last show was that Coulson had put together a very unusual group of operatives in size, skill and lack of experience in some cases. The group is evolving and has to learn how to work together. Ming-Na is already a good character. Ward is a developing character who is having to adapt to a non-action group. Skye is an outsider with some skills which are not completely recognized but she already is bringing new ways of thinking to the group. Fitz and Simmons are the nerds who come up with the impossibly quick solutions to big problems quickly and are inexperienced in the field and dealing with operatives like Ward. There is a method to this and it seems like there is a direction.
post #229 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by vfxproducer View Post

You know, Ming-Na kicks some serious ass for a 50 year old. I hope they give her some opportunities to actually *act* at some point, since she's by far the most talented and accomplished actor on the show.

I'm enjoying SHIELD so far. Not great, but decent. It has promise.

Whoa! That's a typo, right? She's not 50....right?
post #230 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Whoa! That's a typo, right? She's not 50....right?

No, she's only 49.
post #231 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vfxproducer View Post

You know, Ming-Na kicks some serious ass for a 50 year old. I hope they give her some opportunities to actually *act* at some point, since she's by far the most talented and accomplished actor on the show.

I'm enjoying SHIELD so far. Not great, but decent. It has promise.

Whoa! That's a typo, right? She's not 50....right?

Nope, not 50. Not for another 7 weeks smile.gif
See http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001840/
post #232 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Nope, not 50. Not for another 7 weeks smile.gif
See http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001840/

Oh. Okay, that's better. I was gonna eek.gif for a second. wink.gif

Wow, I surely wouldn't have guessed that. I'm enjoying her character so far btw. I agree with her being the best or most experienced talent on the show, so to speak, and I think it shows. It will be fun seeing where they go with her. Or more specifically, how they go with her.
post #233 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Nope, not 50. Not for another 7 weeks smile.gif
See http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001840/

Geez......talk about a fine wine!
post #234 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Wow, I surely wouldn't have guessed that. I'm enjoying her character so far btw. I agree with her being the best or most experienced talent on the show, so to speak, and I think it shows.

Shows how? As VFXproducer just mentioned and others have reiterated, the show is giving her almost nothing to do. You could write out the entirety of the dialog she has been given in two episodes on the back of a stamp and a commercial break lasts longer than most of her scenes.
post #235 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Shows how? As VFXproducer just mentioned and others have reiterated, the show is giving her almost nothing to do. You could write out the entirety of the dialog she has been given in two episodes on the back of a stamp and a commercial break lasts longer than most of her scenes.

It's not always about the extent of dialogue IMO. There is an intensity about her, a chip on her shoulder that I feel. That's not an easy thing to pull off with no (or few) lines. And I further think it's more difficult for a woman to pull that off because they're typically not known as physical actors. Some actors can walk into a scene and you just sit there and wait. Others you immediately say "Oh isht! What's up with this guy?"
post #236 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpeacock22 View Post

The combination of the accent WITH the speed in which they talk PLUS ABC's poor audio quality does make it difficult to understand them, I would agree.

Must be your local ABC affiliate and how they are mixing the separate audio channels.
post #237 of 988
I enjoyed the cold open this week. Neat effects and a nice Agent Truck Driver misdirection. The end resolution with Coulson was well done too.

In between that however it was the same weak writing and charisma vacuum as last week. Skye might be nice eye candy but she's no Sarah Walker or Sydney Bristow and her CQC scene was about as subtle as having a caption stating "this very long scene will be essential to plot later in the episode". The show should bring back the truck driver. Just by being unconventional he was vastly more interesting than the rest of the CW archetypes.

Hilarious take on the pump-shotgun trope this week too by having a sound effect of someone pumping a double barreled shotgun. biggrin.gif
post #238 of 988
Great third episode, with good character development, interesting villains and the special effects budget is definitely generous.
post #239 of 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

It's not always about the extent of dialogue IMO. There is an intensity about her, a chip on her shoulder that I feel. That's not an easy thing to pull off with no (or few) lines

Nothing that hasn't been done a hundred times before. You could throw a dart in a TV schedule for any year and find the stoic, brooding character with a past that hints at some dark secret. Except those characters usually still have more to do than their stunt double. Ming-na is barely a guest star. This week even the guest villains had more screen time.
post #240 of 988
I thought the CGI in the beginning was horrible but the CGI of the element in the large cage was pretty cool. Interesting how they are feeding us small pieces of Colton and what happened to him, now he can't use the pistol correctly. Definitely something happened to him that they are slowly teasing. Wonder what direction they will go.
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