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post #61 of 639
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Under Options, Audio, Advanced, Configure Input Plug-in, you can select the filter used for converting DSD to PCM. (FLAC is just losslessly compressed PCM, so it applies there too)

I suggest using the 24kHz filter, as the others leave all the ultrasonic noise in the output.
And once you have filtered out the ultrasonic noise, I don't see any reason to go above 88.2kHz, as anything above 44.1kHz will have been filtered out. (88.2kHz can store frequencies up to 44.1kHz)

Thanks for the info. The JRiver help doesn't go into the kind of detail that you do, Chrono!

I did some sample conversions, at 176-24 PCM stereo, from ripped SACD ISO stereo files, using JRiver with each of the three filters.
Tomorrow I will do some listening and compare. I converted to WAV, as there is a problem currently with the FLAC conversion. Then I converted the WAV to FLAC.
post #62 of 639
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Thanks for the info. The JRiver help doesn't go into the kind of detail that you do, Chrono!

I did some sample conversions, at 176-24 PCM stereo, from ripped SACD ISO stereo files, using JRiver with each of the three filters.
Tomorrow I will do some listening and compare. I converted to WAV, as there is a problem currently with the FLAC conversion. Then I converted the WAV to FLAC.

I've done a bit of listening. I have about 15 different songs that I ripped/converted, labeled for each of the three JRiver SDS filters, as well as for my Korg Audiogate rips/converted tracks (Korg done with soft filter and Aqua dither).

My initial "findings"/ear-brain thoughts are:

The JRiver "Permissive" filter 50k 24 db clearly doesn't sound as good. Doesn't take too much to figure there's just too much ultrasonic noise affecting the sonics negatively.

The JRiver "Medium" filter 30k 24 dB and the JRiver "Safe" filter 24k 24dB much of the time sound about the same - excellent indeed! I think on occasion in the treble/highs the "Medium" filter might sound a tad better. Its very very close.

Now what's rather neat is that the Korg Audiogate rips/converts really excellent, too - the Korg and the JRiver "Safe" and "Medium" rips all sound so close its tough to tell apart.

I only spent maybe a half hour of listening, though. When I get some more time, I can do some more. But thankfully this means that the Korg
rips/converts are so good that even if I keep the Bryston BDP-1 Media Player for stereo, there is simply no need to rerip using JRiver.
post #63 of 639
Thread Starter 
I discussed with Andrew perhaps using a case not as high as the Silverstone - but e.g., the Streacom FC10 is all aluminum, but is too small to fit the fanless Sapphire video card. So the Silverstone, which looks like Theta gear, is it (9" high - whoa!).

After much adieu, time, research,demoing with my Dell 8500 XPS PC borrowed from my home office, I just ordered the PC, which Andrew is starting to build.

Here's my components:

Case: Silverstone Crown Series SST-CW02B-MXR-USB3.0 $370.00 (black + LCD/IR + multimedia + card reader)
Memory: Crucial 16GB DDR3 1600 kit (8GBx2), 240-pin DIMM (Model CT2KIT102464BD160B)
128GB SSD Samsung SSD MLC
OS: Win 8 Pro 64-bit configured for low latency.
Motherboard: Intel DH77EB / BOXDH77EB (2 USB 3.0 and 1 eSATA port)
Processor: Intel Core i7 i3770S
Sapphire HD 7750 1GB GDDR5 Ultimate video card
Power Supply: Kingwin Stryker Series STR-500
SOtM SOtM Power Noise Filter
Add-in Card: SOtM tX-USBexp $350 (turn off USB power as my DAC has its own power)
Blu-Ray/DVD/CD player/burner

_______________________

I will be probably doing a NAS for music storage & backup, etc. Andrew highly recommends this as less "noisy". The next option would be an external eSata drive.

I am getting the Berkeley Audio USB (to digital) converter. Not only is it built the best, but it has both digital AES/EBU and digital bnc outputs, as does my current Bryston BDP-1 media player, so I can connect the Berkeley to both my Theta CB3 HD SSP and to my Theta Generation VIII Series 3 DAC.

I anticipate that I will get the best of both worlds sonically - multi-channel via HDMI, and stereo via USB converted by Berkeley to digital output. I anticipate that despite how wonderful my Bryston BDP-1 sounds now, that JRiver via this PC & Berkeley will sound markedly better!!@@

I have two PS Audio P5 power regenerators. Note - my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector and Lumagen Radiance XE plug into an APC power conditioner/UPS backup unit. I really only need one P5 for my Theta CB3 HD/Theta Gen VIII DAC/ several players - but I've gotten older and sorer, and its really easy with three component racks having a P5 at the bottom of the first and third racks for plug in of components,
no long long power cords, not much bending and stooping, etc. The PC will plug into the P5 on the right with all of the players. The Berkeley will plug into the P5 on the left with the Theta CB3 HD SSP and Theta Gen VIII DAC. This regenerative setup should sound as good or better than using outboard battery power supplies like for the SOtM tX-USBexp.
Edited by Steve Bruzonsky - 5/30/13 at 4:50pm
post #64 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

After much adieu, time, research,demoing with my Dell 8500 XPS PC borrowed from my home office, I just ordered the PC, which Andrew is starting to build.

Congratulations. Should be a fun project. Mine will ship Monday. Andrew is a busy man with all these custom projects. Once you have the server in, I suggest you install a trial copy of Dirac Live and see what that can do for your system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

This regenerative setup should sound as good or better than using outboard battery power supplies like for the SOtM tX-USBexp.

If I had the patience to do an A/B comparison, I would be able to tell you. I have 2 x PS Audio P5 as well as the battery powersupply. as it stands, I'll just use the battery and call it a day.
post #65 of 639
Thread Starter 
My PC will probably get here mid-June, when I will be out of commission awhile, listening to a lot of music with eyes closed, as I'm having a right eye partial cornea transplant/cataract removal June 14th!! So will be awhile before I get to bending, disconnecting and reconnecting components, etc. Still exciting nonetheless!!!@@@ As for the trial version of Dirac Live, I'm sure at some point I'll get to it!!@@
post #66 of 639
Hi Steve,

Forgive me if this is a dumb question ... what drive did you use to rip your SACDs and DVD-As ? I seem to be a bit late to all this and I had previously thought that ripping SACDs and DVD-As wasn't possible. I only have a few of these discs and had pretty much given up on the idea of ripping them.

My plans were to get DVDFab and a 12TB NAS drive to rip all my DVDs and Blu-rays. Streaming over my network was going to be a Popcorn Hour A400. You may have me changing those plans !

I also have a bunch of the old DTS CDs. Do you know how to rip those ? It would be great to have EVERYTHING ripped and available from one player.

Cheers,
post #67 of 639
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post

Hi Steve,

Forgive me if this is a dumb question ... what drive did you use to rip your SACDs and DVD-As ? I seem to be a bit late to all this and I had previously thought that ripping SACDs and DVD-As wasn't possible. I only have a few of these discs and had pretty much given up on the idea of ripping them.

My plans were to get DVDFab and a 12TB NAS drive to rip all my DVDs and Blu-rays. Streaming over my network was going to be a Popcorn Hour A400. You may have me changing those plans !

I also have a bunch of the old DTS CDs. Do you know how to rip those ? It would be great to have EVERYTHING ripped and available from one player.

Cheers,

Ripping DVD-Audio discs is easy - use DVD Audio Extractor.

Ripping blu rays is easy for music tracks - use DVD Audio Extractor and for most blu rays you may also need Any DVD HD

Ripping SACDs the "cheap" way (Bruce Bowen has posted at the Whats' Best Forum on ripping them the very expensive way)
involves getting an old Playstation 3 with firmware 3.55 or less, getting it to firmware 3.55, and a bunch of addtl pain in the butt steps.
TedB, also known as Mr Wicked on audio forums, is the "inventor" of how to do this. I am not gonna say anymore than this and if you only have a few SACDs believe me, you do not want to mess with this.

I think DVD Audio Extractor will do the DTS CDs. I have a bunch of them, too - but DTS for me is too inferior as a lossy format and I have two much excellent hi rez stuff to listen to for me to consider bothering with old DTS CDs.
post #68 of 639
Thread Starter 
Also, I have no plans to rip blu rays for movies (audio and video - I have ripped blu rays only from concerts and only for hi rez audio tracts).
I will be using this PC for this purpose. I luv my Theta Compli Blu 3D (hey, I still have my Theta Compli Blu, non 3D model, for sale, anyone interested?) which is outstanding for movies and video, and I don't believe that the time, hassle and cost of putting together a PC system to rip and play movies and video at an audio and video quality comparable to what I have from the Compli 3D is possible without spending loads more money and time -unless perhaps I coughed up the bucks for Kaleidescope, and I ain't spending that much!
post #69 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

My initial "findings"/ear-brain thoughts are:

The JRiver "Permissive" filter 50k 24 db clearly doesn't sound as good. Doesn't take too much to figure there's just too much ultrasonic noise affecting the sonics negatively.
The JRiver "Medium" filter 30k 24 dB and the JRiver "Safe" filter 24k 24dB much of the time sound about the same - excellent indeed! I think on occasion in the treble/highs the "Medium" filter might sound a tad better. Its very very close.
I did a little testing on the filters myself. This SACD doesn't have much content above 22k, but that is good for testing the filters.

Safe 24kHz @ 48dB/octave filter - No ultrasonic noise, but slightly reduced frequency response.
Medium 30kHz @ 24dB/octave filter - Full frequency response, but we now have ultrasonic noise that extends to 90kHz.
Permissive 50kHz @ 24dB/octave filter - So much ultrasonic noise that you are even losing some of the high frequency signals.
(imgur seems to have converted the 30k/50k files to jpg which is why they are a bit blurry)

Now I can't say whether this is the best thing to do, as the free tool I'm using for the spectrum analysis is only showing down to -120dB, and 24-bit extends to -144dB - though anything below -120dB should be completely inaudible anyway.
But if you use the 50kHz input filter, and then use the Parametric EQ DSP with a 30kHz @ 48dB/octave low-pass filter, you seem to get almost the full frequency extension, with none of the ultrasonic noise.

And because there is nothing above 44.1kHz, you can also use the Output Format DSP to encode to an 88.2kHz file.
post #70 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

It actually looks like the Marantz styling. Like a big ud9004. I am getting the far more modest FC10, which was actually sold out in the US and had to be shipped from the UK.

http://www.streacom.com/products/fc10-fanless-chassis/
I like that case. It's cool looking and just big enough to do everything that you need completely silent. I've seen the fanless Sapphire card installed with some mods to the case. If you are not going to use a external GPU, it still gives you two expansions slots. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6523/streacoms-fc10-and-nano150-building-a-fanless-ivy-bridge-htpc/2 I realize you are not doing HDMI but others looking to do a similar build and add HDMI can use the same case if they are comfortable modifying the case.
Edited by Bulldogger - 5/31/13 at 6:43pm
post #71 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I did a little testing on the filters myself. This SACD doesn't have much content above 22k, but that is good for testing the filters.

But if you use the 50kHz input filter, and then use the Parametric EQ DSP with a 30kHz @ 48dB/octave low-pass filter, you seem to get almost the full frequency extension, with none of the ultrasonic noise.

.
That's what I currently do. Except I do 24/176.
Edited by Bulldogger - 6/1/13 at 10:40am
post #72 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I discussed with Andrew perhaps using a case not as high as the Silverstone - but e.g., the Streacom FC10 is all aluminum, but is too small to fit the fanless Sapphire video card. So the Silverstone, which looks like Theta gear, is it (9" high - whoa!).

After much adieu, time, research,demoing with my Dell 8500 XPS PC borrowed from my home office, I just ordered the PC, which Andrew is starting to build.

Here's my components:

Case: Silverstone Crown Series SST-CW02B-MXR-USB3.0 $370.00 (black + LCD/IR + multimedia + card reader)
Memory: Crucial 16GB DDR3 1600 kit (8GBx2), 240-pin DIMM (Model CT2KIT102464BD160B)
128GB SSD Samsung SSD MLC
OS: Win 8 Pro 64-bit configured for low latency.
Motherboard: Intel DH77EB / BOXDH77EB (2 USB 3.0 and 1 eSATA port)
Processor: Intel Core i7 i3770S
Sapphire HD 7750 1GB GDDR5 Ultimate video card
Power Supply: Kingwin Stryker Series STR-500
SOtM SOtM Power Noise Filter
Add-in Card: SOtM tX-USBexp $350 (turn off USB power as my DAC has its own power)
Blu-Ray/DVD/CD player/burner

_______________________

I will be probably doing a NAS for music storage & backup, etc. Andrew highly recommends this as less "noisy". The next option would be an external eSata drive.

I am getting the Berkeley Audio USB (to digital) converter. Not only is it built the best, but it has both digital AES/EBU and digital bnc outputs, as does my current Bryston BDP-1 media player, so I can connect the Berkeley to both my Theta CB3 HD SSP and to my Theta Generation VIII Series 3 DAC.

I anticipate that I will get the best of both worlds sonically - multi-channel via HDMI, and stereo via USB converted by Berkeley to digital output. I anticipate that despite how wonderful my Bryston BDP-1 sounds now, that JRiver via this PC & Berkeley will sound markedly better!!@@

I have two PS Audio P5 power regenerators. Note - my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector and Lumagen Radiance XE plug into an APC power conditioner/UPS backup unit. I really only need one P5 for my Theta CB3 HD/Theta Gen VIII DAC/ several players - but I've gotten older and sorer, and its really easy with three component racks having a P5 at the bottom of the first and third racks for plug in of components,
no long long power cords, not much bending and stooping, etc. The PC will plug into the P5 on the right with all of the players. The Berkeley will plug into the P5 on the left with the Theta CB3 HD SSP and Theta Gen VIII DAC. This regenerative setup should sound as good or better than using outboard battery power supplies like for the SOtM tX-USBexp.
Congrats Steve! I think this is the direction to go. You may not need the Sapphire card in your build however. The Intel motherboard should be able to do the same thing. The cost is minimal so it's not a big deal. My understanding is only Intel boards can do sample rates like 24/176.4

Edit: You need to use the Radeon so that you can use if for up-scaling http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=79448.0 and use your Lumagen for the rest.
Edited by Bulldogger - 6/1/13 at 10:44am
post #73 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Ripping DVD-Audio discs is easy - use DVD Audio Extractor.

Ripping blu rays is easy for music tracks - use DVD Audio Extractor and for most blu rays you may also need Any DVD HD

Ripping SACDs the "cheap" way (Bruce Bowen has posted at the Whats' Best Forum on ripping them the very expensive way)
involves getting an old Playstation 3 with firmware 3.55 or less, getting it to firmware 3.55, and a bunch of addtl pain in the butt steps.
TedB, also known as Mr Wicked on audio forums, is the "inventor" of how to do this. I am not gonna say anymore than this and if you only have a few SACDs believe me, you do not want to mess with this.

I think DVD Audio Extractor will do the DTS CDs. I have a bunch of them, too - but DTS for me is too inferior as a lossy format and I have two much excellent hi rez stuff to listen to for me to consider bothering with old DTS CDs.

Thanks Steve, I appreciate the help.

Cheers,
post #74 of 639
Did I understand correctly that there is a theory on here that dirty power is making a USB hard drive sound different than an internal hard drive? I don't want to get involved but I got to lol on that if that's the theory. My old computer science teacher would get a kick out of that. Digital files aren't like a record they're written in code. There is no such thing as dirty or foggy code that's preposterous.
Edited by ComputerTech0903 - 6/3/13 at 12:51pm
post #75 of 639
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComputerTech0903 View Post

Did I understand correctly that there is a theory on here that dirty power is making a USB hard drive sound different than an internal hard drive? I don't want to get involved but I got to lol on that if that's the theory. My old computer science teacher would get a kick out of that. Digital files aren't like a record they're written in code. There is no such thing as dirty or foggy code that's preposterous.

It ain't no theory. It's my observation, what I heard using my Dell 8500 XPS, borrowed from my home office, as the sonics are much better using the internal hard drive than using an external USB drive. I didn't expect that. For my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player, sonics are superb and it uses external USB hard drives. The difference - the Bryston has no moving parts and is engineered for the purpose of using an external USB drive for audiophile music - the Dell is not. I previously posted in this thread some info on why this is the case.

Anyway, let your computer science teacher get a kick, no kick off my block.

Over at Computer Audiophile if you search the site you will find some discussions on this too.
post #76 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

It ain't no theory. It's my observation, what I heard using my Dell 8500 XPS, borrowed from my home office, as the sonics are much better using the internal hard drive than using an external USB drive. I didn't expect that. For my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player, sonics are superb and it uses external USB hard drives. The difference - the Bryston has no moving parts and is engineered for the purpose of using an external USB drive for audiophile music - the Dell is not. I previously posted in this thread some info on why this is the case.

Anyway, let your computer science teacher get a kick, no kick off my block.

Over at Computer Audiophile if you search the site you will find some discussions on this too.

It is one of those areas of audiophile voodoo. I used to be streaming from NAS and could not get it to work with Jplay 4.0. So I swtiched to USB storage just to audition Jplay. Did not like Jplay and swithed back to NAS storage. Loo and behold, I thought it sounded worse than USB. So now I am using USB storage. Tried internal SSD also, and heard no difference. My conclusions:

A) what sounds best is a crapshoot. Too many variables.
B) It is conceivable the differences are illusory, and could not be reproduced in a double blind test. I'm open to this possibility (at least for my own observations), but don't loose any sleep over it.

Just for kicks, I'll try internal storage, NAS and USB when I get my new machine.
Edited by edorr - 6/3/13 at 1:51pm
post #77 of 639
I've tried internal storage, external USB storage, and external Thunderbolt storage (different bus). All sound equally flawless.

FWIW, YMMV, etc. etc.
post #78 of 639
Thread Starter 
Whatever works for one in their system. Let the end user be the JUDGE! HA!

I simply informed you what I heard in my system using the Dell 8500 XPS borrowed from my home office. I wasn't expecting to hear the difference - yet after I moved the storage to the external USB drive I was ready to stop building a custom PC for multi-channel HDMI (and two channel) because it sounded so poor. Then once I loaded it back onto the internal SATA hard drive it sounded fine again.

My explanation is simply that Dell didn't build the PC with high end audio in mind using the external USB drive and that some noise is creepin' in when that drive is used for music in a highly resolving audio system like mine. The custom PC I speced and ordered from Andrew at Small Green Computer is designed to use NAS, or otherwise external eSATA, to minimize noise being the issue.

My understanding from reading up on the CAPS Zuma 3.0 at Computer Audiophile online is that there is an issue if you use an external USB drive for music AND an internal USB card to output the audio via USB to either a DAC with its own built in USB asynchronous converter, or to a USB to digital converter like the Berkeley Audio USB converter that I am getting for two channel purposes.

Edorr, you keep up on this. What have they been saying at the Computer Audiophile and also Audio Asylum forums about using NAS with CAPS or other music servers? What do they say about using an external eSATA drive?
post #79 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Edorr, you keep up on this. What have they been saying at the Computer Audiophile and also Audio Asylum forums about using NAS with CAPS or other music servers? What do they say about using an external eSATA drive?

After finding I prefer USB storage over my NAS I posted a quesiton on CA forum. Got lots of different opinions, nothing conclusive (what else is new). My current take is with a very good server it really should not make any difference so based on convenience just use NAS storage. Unless my ears tell me otherwise, this is probably what I'll do once the CAPS 3.0 is up and running. Andrew also recommends NAS storage. I may try eSATA as well.
post #80 of 639
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

After finding I prefer USB storage over my NAS I posted a quesiton on CA forum. Got lots of different opinions, nothing conclusive (what else is new). My current take is with a very good server it really should not make any difference so based on convenience just use NAS storage. Unless my ears tell me otherwise, this is probably what I'll do once the CAPS 3.0 is up and running. Andrew also recommends NAS storage. I may try eSATA as well.

Andrew recommended NAS storage to me too. I also plan to do NAS but to also try an external eSata drive, whatever sounds best!!@@
If they both sound the same, fine with me. With all the music ripped, would like to play it in other rooms, anyway - and like having an auto backup on a RAID NAS, too.
post #81 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Andrew recommended NAS storage to me too. I also plan to do NAS but to also try an external eSata drive, whatever sounds best!!@@
If they both sound the same, fine with me. With all the music ripped, would like to play it in other rooms, anyway - and like having an auto backup on a RAID NAS, too.

I stream wirelessly to the Oppo 93 in the living room system from the NAS. It is an exact copy of the library on USB storage connected to my CAPS 2.0 located in the basement.
post #82 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

My understanding from reading up on the CAPS Zuma 3.0 at Computer Audiophile online is that there is an issue if you use an external USB drive for music AND an internal USB card to output the audio via USB to either a DAC with its own built in USB asynchronous converter, or to a USB to digital converter like the Berkeley Audio USB converter that I am getting for two channel purposes.
Streaming 24/96 only requires ~12mbps bandwidth, as I understand it. So let's assume that 24/192 requires double that. 24mbps is nothing compared to USB2's 480mbps bandwidth. Shouldn't have any impact on streaming audio.

And for what it's worth, I have done some testing on this since switching from HDMI to a USB DAC recently, and tested conditions where I exceed the limits of the bandwidth a single USB port offers - other devices start to show reduced performance, but audio seems to take priority, as I did not experience any change in playback. (skips, drop-outs, pops & clicks etc)

And again, reading data (i.e. music files) cannot be different whether you're connected via USB, SATA, eSATA, Firewire, Thunderbolt, Ethernet, WiFi etc.
If the data was different, JRiver would be unable to play it, and external storage options couldn't even exist. (because they would be useless if you couldn't read data from them perfectly)
post #83 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

My understanding from reading up on the CAPS Zuma 3.0 at Computer Audiophile online is that there is an issue if you use an external USB drive for music AND an internal USB card to output the audio via USB to either a DAC with its own built in USB asynchronous converter, or to a USB to digital converter like the Berkeley Audio USB converter that I am getting for two channel purposes.

I mention to Andrew I was planning to use USB storage and he did not said this could be a problem with the Zuma. The USB drive is an USB port that has a different controller than the SotM card, so I don't see how this could be an issue. Irrespectively, I can switch to any other storage type without any issue.
post #84 of 639
Thread Starter 
From Computer Audiophile at

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/497-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-zuma/


"The Intel DH77EB motherboard is the first CAPS design to feature native USB 3.0 ports in addition to USB 2.0 ports. Just as I didn't think the lack of USB 3.0 ports on the previous CAPS designs was a showstopper I don't think the inclusion of native USB 3.0 ports on the Zuma server is anything special. When connecting a USB DAC to the Zuma server readers should avoid using USB hard drives due to how the USB protocol operates. This issue may be alleviated some by separating the PCIe SOtM USB 3.0 card and built-in USB 2.0/3.0 bus lanes and controllers but that doesn't change the USB protocol. USB relies on a host processor to manage the low level protocol. This can load the host CPU with interrupts and buffer copies. The only positive I see with the native USB 3.0 ports is the speed with which a backup can be completed. Users connecting a USB 3.0 drive to the side or rear USB 3.0 ports, for backup only then removing the drive, will see a huge boost in speed and dramatic decrease in the time it take to complete a backup. Everyone is backing up right?

This raises the question of how should users store their music collections if the internal hard drive is too small? My verified recommendation for the Zuma design is eSATA or NAS (Network Attached Storage). My unverified recommendation is to use more internal SATA hard drives. I use a Network Attached Storage (NAS) drive for nearly all my listening. My over 4,000 album music collection is stored on the network and accessible to any network attached device in my house. On the Zuma server a mapped drive such as M: is pointed to the NAS and JRiver is configured to watch the M: drive for library changes. Both CAPS v2 and CAPS v3 Zuma feature built-in eSATA ports (3Gb/s). I really like using eSATA drives because they appear the same as an internal SATA drive in Disk Management and use a completely different protocol than USB drives for data access. Similar to the concept of separation of Church and State is the CAPS concept of separation of Disk and DAC.

I mention an unverified recommendation above because I haven't tried multiple internal SATA drives with the existing specified CAPS v3 Zuma power supply. Given the low power requirements of the Samsung 840 Pro Series I am pretty confident users will not have any difficulties with two or three drives inside the Zuma case. Prior to purchasing internal SSD drives readers should know the Dh77EB motherboard features, two SATA III (6Gb/s) ports, two SATA II (3Gb/s) ports, and two shared SATA II (3Gb/s) ports. The shared "ports" consist of one mSATA slot (3Gb/s) and one standard SATA II port (3Gb/s). One pitfall of having these different types of ports is the inability to properly configure a large storage drive spanning several hard drives. While it can be done I don't recommend it due to different speeds, controllers, and less than stellar software RAID."
post #85 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

From Computer Audiophile at

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/497-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-zuma/


"The Intel DH77EB motherboard is the first CAPS design to feature native USB 3.0 ports in addition to USB 2.0 ports. Just as I didn't think the lack of USB 3.0 ports on the previous CAPS designs was a showstopper I don't think the inclusion of native USB 3.0 ports on the Zuma server is anything special. When connecting a USB DAC to the Zuma server readers should avoid using USB hard drives due to how the USB protocol operates. This issue may be alleviated some by separating the PCIe SOtM USB 3.0 card and built-in USB 2.0/3.0 bus lanes and controllers but that doesn't change the USB protocol. USB relies on a host processor to manage the low level protocol. This can load the host CPU with interrupts and buffer copies. The only positive I see with the native USB 3.0 ports is the speed with which a backup can be completed. Users connecting a USB 3.0 drive to the side or rear USB 3.0 ports, for backup only then removing the drive, will see a huge boost in speed and dramatic decrease in the time it take to complete a backup. Everyone is backing up right?

This raises the question of how should users store their music collections if the internal hard drive is too small? My verified recommendation for the Zuma design is eSATA or NAS (Network Attached Storage). My unverified recommendation is to use more internal SATA hard drives. I use a Network Attached Storage (NAS) drive for nearly all my listening. My over 4,000 album music collection is stored on the network and accessible to any network attached device in my house. On the Zuma server a mapped drive such as M: is pointed to the NAS and JRiver is configured to watch the M: drive for library changes. Both CAPS v2 and CAPS v3 Zuma feature built-in eSATA ports (3Gb/s). I really like using eSATA drives because they appear the same as an internal SATA drive in Disk Management and use a completely different protocol than USB drives for data access. Similar to the concept of separation of Church and State is the CAPS concept of separation of Disk and DAC.

I mention an unverified recommendation above because I haven't tried multiple internal SATA drives with the existing specified CAPS v3 Zuma power supply. Given the low power requirements of the Samsung 840 Pro Series I am pretty confident users will not have any difficulties with two or three drives inside the Zuma case. Prior to purchasing internal SSD drives readers should know the Dh77EB motherboard features, two SATA III (6Gb/s) ports, two SATA II (3Gb/s) ports, and two shared SATA II (3Gb/s) ports. The shared "ports" consist of one mSATA slot (3Gb/s) and one standard SATA II port (3Gb/s). One pitfall of having these different types of ports is the inability to properly configure a large storage drive spanning several hard drives. While it can be done I don't recommend it due to different speeds, controllers, and less than stellar software RAID."

Interesting. So looks like I need to go shopping for an eSATA drive or go back to NAS.
post #86 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

It ain't no theory. It's my observation, what I heard using my Dell 8500 XPS, borrowed from my home office, as the sonics are much better using the internal hard drive than using an external USB drive. I didn't expect that. For my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player, sonics are superb and it uses external USB hard drives. The difference - the Bryston has no moving parts and is engineered for the purpose of using an external USB drive for audiophile music - the Dell is not. I previously posted in this thread some info on why this is the case.

Anyway, let your computer science teacher get a kick, no kick off my block.

Over at Computer Audiophile if you search the site you will find some discussions on this too.

You can also find a lot of websites about people raving how a $10,000 power cable reinvented their system it doesn't mean it's true you being a lawyer I figure you'd be able to sniff out that bull ****. But then again I think modern processing has advanced far enough that a CB3 hd would be the same an integra or sherbourn processor. Oh well. Good luck with your new system I still say an AMD APU would work perfectly for the system requirements and you'd save like $400 for the same outcome.
Edited by ComputerTech0903 - 6/4/13 at 10:30pm
post #87 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Interesting. So looks like I need to go shopping for an eSATA drive or go back to NAS.
We run an OWC 2 TB Firewire drive, which we reformatted to Windows, using Audioquest Diamond DBS Firewire and output USB from a SOTM card via Audioquest Diamond to an Aethetix Romulus. The key here is you don't want to push and pull the signal with same protocol. Since most of the best transmission from computer to DAC is via Asynchonous USB, you want to use something else for storage for sure.
While cable may not be too important for data tranfer, it makes a big difference while playing files in real time. We use jRiver too. Norm
post #88 of 639
Thread Starter 
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2413310,00.asp

This article discusses USB v eSATA, and I think helps one understand why for audiophile PCs, using eSATA if available is clearly preferable to using USB.
post #89 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2413310,00.asp

This article discusses USB v eSATA, and I think helps one understand why for audiophile PCs, using eSATA if available is clearly preferable to using USB.
Yeah, that ~0.024gbps audio stream is really going to be stressing your 5gbps USB3 ports.

eSATA has very limited adoption. USB works with everything and USB3 is fast enough that the new bus-powered 2.5" external drives I bought are faster than some of my internal 3.5" ones - with two drives working at once.

I have my DAC running off a 5-port USB2 hub, and even when there are multiple devices stressing it, there is no impact on the audio.
post #90 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2413310,00.asp

This article discusses USB v eSATA, and I think helps one understand why for audiophile PCs, using eSATA if available is clearly preferable to using USB.

Thanks, since we are splitting digital hairs here I'll check with Andrew if I should get an USB powered eSATA drive, to keep the battery powered Zuma completely isolated from AC.
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