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Optoma HD25 and HD25-LV owners - Page 2

post #31 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by rd7723 View Post

How does the optoma image quality compare to the epson in 2d and 3d? thanks for any reply.

the Optoma HD25-LV in 3D wins decisively for me.In 2D,unless you're watching a scene that is predominantly dark,i prefer the Optoma as well.The black level on the Epson is incredible! If black levels are on top of your priority list,then consider the Epson.
In 3D,since black levels are neutralized because of the dimming,the black levels are identical to me and actually the brightness is a big deciding factor in 3D viewing and thats one of many reasons i prefer the HD25-LV in 3D.
post #32 of 112
Thanks... My HD25-LV is on its way...
post #33 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbeenjammin View Post

the Optoma HD25-LV in 3D wins decisively for me.In 2D,unless you're watching a scene that is predominantly dark,i prefer the Optoma as well.The black level on the Epson is incredible! If black levels are on top of your priority list,then consider the Epson.
In 3D,since black levels are neutralized because of the dimming,the black levels are identical to me and actually the brightness is a big deciding factor in 3D viewing and thats one of many reasons i prefer the HD25-LV in 3D.

Hey thanks for answering my question. Now i just need to sell my 82 inch mitsu dlp. Take care.
post #34 of 112
I was doing my random scan of open boxed clearance items at Best Buy and lo and behold they had an open box hd25-LV in stock.
post #35 of 112
How much you paid for it?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
post #36 of 112
I didn't buy it, I was searching online. They have it priced for $1118.99.
post #37 of 112
Sorry to "jump in" and drop a new question, but I am really needing a piece of information about this projector...

Is it possible to shift the image (such as for a 2.35 AR movie) inside of the 16:9 image area? I like to mask at the bottom (partially retract screen), and move a 2.35 image to the top of the screen.

From the manual it looks like it does support this shift in HDMI mode.

Anyone know for sure?

Thanks!
post #38 of 112
Thread Starter 
No. It can not shift an image within the 1920 x 1080 display area.
If an image is zoomed in then it will allow shifting that image. It's actually panning within the enlarged image.
td
post #39 of 112
Anyone cares enough to try out if this projector supports 120 Hz native via this tweak? http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/
post #40 of 112
120hz @ 720p is directly supported, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll give it a try at 1080p when mine gets here, but I'd bet against it smile.gif
post #41 of 112
Ok, here's what I got -- First, yes, the 720p 120hz functionality worked right out of the box ((well, as soon as I connected to my DVI port -- apparently the Radeon 6870 HDMI port won't do 120hz; couldn't get it to even show up as an option at all, no matter what I treid). But when connected to the DVI, it was just a default option.

1080p, however, I couldn't get to show 120hz options at all.

But note that I simply couldn't get it to show up at all - meaning I never actually tried it. so if you can get your computer to send at 1080p/120hz signal, maybe it'll work, Idunno. I just couldn't make it happen using any of the metods on the site. And the thing is, I've actually done edid editing with some success before - I built one of the early edids that opened up 72/96hz modes and 1280x800@120hz for the hd66... but maybe I'm just rusty now frown.gif
post #42 of 112
Hey Guys,

Has anyone done a 1:1 comparison to the BenQ W1070 or W1080ST? I've posted a long post in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435626/benq-w1070-dlp-full-hd-3d-ready-with-lens-shift-for-1000/5340#post_23482405

I'm kinda back to square one with my project, since I'm such a newb. However, I am seriously starting to lean towards the HD25 LV considering my ambient light in the room. My primary concern is the AVForum review saying that the 3D wasn't as impressive as they thought it would be.

Questions I have now are:

1) How difficult is the installation, particularly considering the super long throw (I'm looking to put a 133" screen in a 21' long room)?
2) Should I go with a .8 gain screen to compensate for the ambient light when I watch football, or with the higher lumens, stick with the 1 gain white screen?
3) What glasses do you get with this projector? I read the issues Ethan had, which caused some concern, since the whole concept of what hertz 2D and 3D runs on is foreign to me...
4) Does the hertz the projector runs at when watching 2D / 3D Movies versus gaming differ on this projector?
5) Can this projector even be used for 2D / 3D gaming?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
post #43 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Fineout View Post

The explanation for the black chassis might be that there is a European model that is identical from Optoma except that it has a black chassis. It is the HD 131X. Maybe they ran out of white chassis and slapped the black one on?

I got my LV yesterday and love it so far. I am having a 3D issue I thought folks might want a warning about. Some of this is speculation so chime in with your theories if I seem off base.

The projector does 144hz 3D which by all accounts makes up for the lack of frame interpolation and gives super smooth 3D. I believe that cinemas run at 144hz with their active shutter glasses. I bought a "universal IR emitter" to hook up to the VESA port. I have XPAND 103 universal glasses that are stated to run at 96hz-144hz so they should be capable of running in sync with the projector. I thought this would work and have a ton of the glasses for my TV so figured it would save some money. However, it isn't working out for me. I think the problem is that the IR emitter is emitting at 120hz since most TVs and projectors run 3D at 120Hz. So for instance if I set the glasses and emitter to "Sony" it is running at the same Hz as a sony TV (IE 120hz). My glasses pick up the 120Hz signal and sort of do what they should be doing but they don't seem to match sync with the image. I'm not sure I'm correct but based on the image I am seeing with my eyes it looks like the shutter speed isn't matching the image speed...so I get ghosting, flickering, some 3D effect but it is unwatchable.

I would not assume that Sony glasses will work. My guess is that they will show the same problem I am seeing. If someone tries it I'd love to know what they find.

Does anyone know of any IR emitters out there that would do 144hz and communicate with the Xpand glasses? I found some Volfoni thing online but haven't done any research as it looks like it is Pro grade and probably expensive plus you need their glasses I'm guessing.

My next step will be to try some DLP glasses or get the Optoma RF emitter and glasses just to make sure that it isn't my projector.

So, I'm happy with the projector but maybe the VESA port option is less of a cool thing than I initially thought. Too bad you can't set the Projector to do 120hz 3D for folks like me.

Hi Ethan,

While doing my research, found the following review:

http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiovideohd.fr%2Ftests%2F354-Optoma-HD25-0.html

In that article, they said they also could not sync older 120Hz glasses with this projector... So, you are spot on with your hypothesis that it is the glasses, and not the projector.
post #44 of 112
I don't have either of the benqs so I won't address that question but I can answer a few others smile.gif

1- installation difficulty really can't be answered until you present more detail about your room. 133" will need the projector something like 16-18 feet from the screen and about 9" above the screen top edge (use the calculator for specifics, I'm COMPLETELY ballparking those numbers); if you can mount the projector and get wires to it there, it shouldnt' be a problem.

2- I'm interested in this answer too. My guess is grey, but I'll let people with more expertise answer. I have a white screen on mine, and until the blackouts get here (hurry fedex!!) I've got terrible ambient light. This thing does a great job of mitigating it, but when the sun's really shining in the wrong way, it's still not enough.

3- I'm using these, and they work perfectly. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BVUNZUU/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

4- OK this gets complicated. First, remember that the display refreshes at a crazy-fast rate (not sure what it is, but it's in the several-hundreds-range), and that frames will be repeated a few times. This doesn't change. However, the rate at which a displayed frame will proceed to the next rame *does* change, depending on the material. For standard, 2d material, it's a simple direct relationship with the source material -- if you send it 24hz material, it changes 24 times a second, 60 for 60, 120 for 120.

3d adds complexity to the equation since it has to syncronize with the glasses as well, and it has to flip from eye to eye. In 60hz per eye signals - be they 120hz frame sequential or 60hz frame packed/sidebyside/top-bottom - each eye gets a 60hz signal, meaning the actual display refreshes at 120hz. The difficulty with old systems was the 120hz maximum (60hz per eye) in combination with 24hz frame packed bluray 3d. So you have 48 images per second to display on a screen that can display 120hz -- -so you have to choose between slowing the refresh rate to, for example, 96hz (48 per eye, by which point some people can start seeing flicker) or juddering (AAAA!!!!). Thus the new 144hz capable glasses are on the market, and so when you're sending 24hz signals they no longer have to slow down to 96.

5- yeah, works great for it! smile.gif
Edited by defiancecp - 7/1/13 at 10:46pm
post #45 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post

I don't have either of the benqs so I won't address that question but I can answer a few others smile.gif

1- installation difficulty really can't be answered until you present more detail about your room. 133" will need the projector something like 16-18 feet from the screen and about 9" above the screen top edge (use the calculator for specifics, I'm COMPLETELY ballparking those numbers); if you can mount the projector and get wires to it there, it shouldnt' be a problem.

2- I'm interested in this answer too. My guess is grey, but I'll let people with more expertise answer. I have a white screen on mine, and until the blackouts get here (hurry fedex!!) I've got terrible ambient light. This thing does a great job of mitigating it, but when the sun's really shining in the wrong way, it's still not enough.

3- I'm using these, and they work perfectly. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BVUNZUU/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

4- OK this gets complicated. First, remember that the display refreshes at a crazy-fast rate (not sure what it is, but it's in the several-hundreds-range), and that frames will be repeated a few times. This doesn't change. However, the rate at which a displayed frame will proceed to the next rame *does* change, depending on the material. For standard, 2d material, it's a simple direct relationship with the source material -- if you send it 24hz material, it changes 24 times a second, 60 for 60, 120 for 120.

3d adds complexity to the equation since it has to syncronize with the glasses as well, and it has to flip from eye to eye. In 60hz per eye signals - be they 120hz frame sequential or 60hz frame packed/sidebyside/top-bottom - each eye gets a 120hz signal. The difficulty with old systems was the 120hz maximum (60hz per eye) in combination with 24hz frame packed bluray 3d. So you have 48 images per second to display on a screen that can display 120hz -- -so you have to choose between slowing the refresh rate to, for example, 96hz (48 per eye, by which point some people can start seeing flicker) or juddering (AAAA!!!!). Thus the new 144hz capable glasses are on the market, and so when you're sending 24hz signals they no longer have to slow down to 96.

5- yeah, works great for it! smile.gif

Awesome, thanks very much for the response!

With regards to my room size, it's rectangular, and is 146.5" x 256". The wall the screen will be going on is 146.5" W x 102.5" H. The tricky part of the room is that it has a peaked ceiling. The ceiling is 102.5" at either end of the 256" length, and about 134" at the peak in the middle. I believe I need to mount this projector between 15.5 FT to 16.0 FT away from the screen edge, which would put the projector about halfway in between the peak and the wall. Having the vaulted ceiling may actually work in my favor for clearance.

Out of curiosity, which blackouts did you go with?

EDIT: Oh, and has anyone ever heard of AccuScreens?
Edited by epbb - 7/1/13 at 6:07pm
post #46 of 112
I'm trying to decide between the HD25 and HD25-LV. I've just had feedback from Optoma to say that the main difference between the two is the the colour wheel as the rest of the light engine is the same. Optoma are claiming more vivid colour with the HD25 over the LV varient - where as LV is there purely for a brighter image.

On the 3D front Optoma are claiming brighter 3D experience on the LV over the standard model - but I'm assuming that must be with 144hz RF glasses.

Can anyone confirm this by comparing an HD25 and HD25-LV side by side?

On my existing HD66 I had some stuck mirrors a year or so back and had to import the DLP chip from China and then fitted this myself (as this was far cheaper than sending back the unit to the US where it was sourced). Are stuck mirrors still a potential issue on the 1080p DC3 chips?

I've had a hard time with my HD66 and 720p120hz pass through on my Onkyo NR515 AVR - can anyone confirm the HD25 and HD25LV play nicely with Onkyo kit in terms of EDID handling? I'm guessing as the HD25 is HDMI 1.4a spec rather than "3d ready" format of the HD66 that these types of issues are now resolved?

thanks!
Edited by ashley68 - 7/12/13 at 5:14am
post #47 of 112
I thought, in the future for people who are interested and want more info, that I would post these pictures of the size difference between the HD 33 and the HD 25 LV. I was actually shocked when I got the box for the HD 25 and saw how small it was. I thought Amazon had shipped something different than the actual projector. It's about half the size of the HD 33. About the size of an Xbox 360 console.

post #48 of 112
So, my thoughts on the projector as compared to the HD 33:

I was watching the HD 33 right before the HD 25 LV arrived. With the picture brightness and quality in mind, fresh from seconds before. I saw quite a difference in brightness about 1 3/4 of what the HD 33 output. I measured my HD 33 at 933 lm, this projector measures in at about 1750 lm. That is in 2-D, in film mode On 120 inch 1.3 gain screen Surrounded by ambient light from windows in the living room. Quite a huge difference, especially to the naked eye. The 3-D on the HD 33, actually looked quite good as it was. During the day, it was still viewable, but at night is where really shined. Looking almost as good as the IMAX theater down the road at the Regal Cinemas. Do not believe the reviews that say 3-D mode isn't enhanced by the HD25 LV projector.

The brightness, even to the naked eye, is doubled from the 600 and some odd lumens that I measured with my HD33. Upon measurement, I came out with about 1100 lm in 3-D mode using the film setting without any adjustments. The 3-D looks 10 times better than it did on the HD 33. I can't exactly describe why, but things seem to pop more, probably due to the enhanced contrast of the new projector. Sharpness also seems to have been tweaked.

There seems to be a push with red in the projector, that is most noticed with skintones. Knocking it back In the advanced settings, resolves the issue. Overall, you wouldn't be wrong in using the factory settings out-of-the-box. Though, with a few tweaks, you can make the picture look that much better.

Was it worth switching from the HD 33 to the HD 25 LV? Yes. Especially if ambient light is an issue in your viewing room. Even if it isn't, it will add that extra kick to both 2-D and 3-D viewing. I love the smaller physical size of the unit itself, it allows that much more flexibility in placement, no matter where you want to put it.

The mechanical noise that some people report, isn't happening on my unit, even at the bright lamp setting with dynamic black enabled. I am guessing it may have been an issue with earlier units and was resolved with the second batch. I cannot even hear the fan running in it, whereas with the HD 33 it was noticeable even over a decent volume soundtrack.

So, in summary:

Brighter in both 2-D and 3-D
Sharper picture, even with larger screens
Better overall color saturation
Smaller
Lighter
Almost silent
About the same price as HD33
More fine adjustments in menus
Multiple Inputs
VGA out, for times when you need it for presentations
Speakers for the same purpose
USB connection, for easy user upgrade

If you are on the fence between the HD 25 and HD 25 LV, I would suggest just going with the LV and paying the extra money, because you never know when you'll need the extra brightness... if you move, If you need to move the projector to another room that isn't light controlled, if you need to take it out for presentations, or just want the extra brightness in 3-D. As someone else here on the boards mentioned, it's better to have the extra lumens and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm still experimenting with the projector and will have more info as needed.
Edited by thextreme1 - 7/12/13 at 2:09pm
post #49 of 112
My HD 70 color wheel just broke after 6 years. i probably would have kept it another 5 if it hadn't. I am considering a refurb hd20 or a new hd25. 3D is not important to me. Is the black level increase enough for a $300 price difference?
post #50 of 112
Hey theextreme1, was your experience with the 3d via the DLP Link glasses or RF glasses on those projectors? Just curious if you thought a change to RF was noticeable enough to make the investment on an emitter and new glasses. Thanks!
post #51 of 112
Hi Xtreme, thank you for that detailed and useful explanation. Before making the move did you compare it with an HD25 ?

What is your opinion about image sharpness, I remember reading about someone who returned the HD25 because he felt the image was somewhat soft compared to an old InFocus projector that he was using at the time. I too was a fan of the classic InFocus projectors due its sharp image and excellent colours right out of the box.

Also, are the black-levels of the HD25-LV reasonably good ?
post #52 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucsondave View Post

I don't know about the HD25 but here's a comparison with the HD33.
Here's what I found using a light meter on a 100% white patch from the Spears & Munsil 2nd edition disk. Rough conversion to foot candles at 13 feet from lens. Not measured through glasses. Eco mode on both.
Mode:................. 2D .................. 3D

HD33.................11 fc ................10 fc

HD25-LV............ 23 fc................13 fc
td
Anyone know why Optoma drops the brightness in 3D on these projectors as it seems so counter-intuitive due to light loss through glasses??? My Optoma GT750 does not drop in 3D mode and I can get 2000+ lumens. Optoma should at least provide the option to keep brightness levels in 3D mode for these models.
post #53 of 112
Anybody have any information on the HD30, I am about to buy the HD25 but would consider the HD30 if it was better. All I can tell from the specs is higher contrast and lower lumens. There don't seem to be any reviews yet.
post #54 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucsondave View Post

A call to Optoma and they confirm that the brightness will drop in 3D but will be brighter in 2D. So what's the point of buying a brighter 3D projector if it doesn't use the extra brightness for 3D?
They also said they know nothing about this PJ since it is so new and had no idea about the crosstalk.
Simple explanation.
They need to add a black frame while waiting for the LCD shutters on the shutter glasses to switch eyes.
This black frame during eye-switch makes an dramatic improvement in crosstalk. (unless the projector has a bug)

So average 3D brightness will always be dimmer than 2D, on all projectors, yesterday, today, and the future -- if you're using LCD shutter glasses. LCD shutters don't instantly open/close. You must use a black frame during the shutter switch interval to eliminate crosstalk. That's how it works with nVidia 3D Vision 2 monitors -- they turn off the backlight while the shutter glasses are switching eyes, too.
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 7/18/13 at 1:52pm
post #55 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Simple explanation.
They need to add a black frame while waiting for the LCD shutters on the shutter glasses to switch eyes.
This black frame during eye-switch makes an dramatic improvement in crosstalk. (unless the projector has a bug)

So average 3D brightness will always be dimmer than 2D, on all projectors, yesterday, today, and the future -- if you're using LCD shutter glasses. LCD shutters don't instantly open/close. You must use a black frame during the shutter switch interval to eliminate crosstalk. That's how it works with nVidia 3D Vision 2 monitors -- they turn off the backlight while the shutter glasses are switching eyes, too.
These Optomas are DLP refreshing at 120hz (60 hz per left/right images) and no black frame. LCD display panels (240hz and above) are the only ones I think that use black frame insertion due to response time limitation of that technology (which has gotten better.) LCD glasses' shutters transition under 2-4ms total (darken time like .5ms with rise time 3.5ms or so.) Some are even faster. And yes you do loose light to your eye through the glasses but we're talking output of the projector.
post #56 of 112
I am looking for a little advice. I recently ordered the HD25-LV. I will be using this in a light controlled home theatre and plan on using a Dragonfly 120" screen.

I was wondering though about my setup regarding the screen type. I can go with a high contrast screen of .9 gain or a matte white screen of 1.2 gain. I was told by someone locally that sine the HD25-LV has enough lumens the high contrast should work and leave me with better black levels/contrast all around. he said there is potential for washing out if I use too high of gain screen with too many lumens.

High Contrast
http://www.snapav.com/p-351-df-sl-120-hc.aspx

vs

Matte White
http://www.snapav.com/p-353-df-sl-120-mw.aspx

Thoughts?
post #57 of 112
Getting ready to buy a couple sets of 3D glasses for my hd25. I know the DLP Link is @144hz.
The DLP Link ZD301 glasses say Frame Rate 96hz/100hz/120hz/144hz and the BG-ZF2100gls say Multi-frequency 48/96, 50/100, 60/120, 240 Hz.
So with the RF glasses and the Optoma RF Emitter is the rate going to be 144hz? Or is that only if using the DLP link glasses?
Thanks.
post #58 of 112
going the RF route will get you the best 3D viewing experience including the triple flash 144 hz all the way...
post #59 of 112
Thanks for the info on the RF glasses. While searching the 3D glasses I just came across a HD25e for the same price I paid for my hd25....Not very happy right now........
post #60 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by derek View Post

And yes you do loose light to your eye through the glasses but we're talking output of the projector.
I'm talking specifically about LCD shutter glasses. Some DLP projectors have used LCD shutter glasses and you still need a black frame (doesn't have to be symmetrically the same size as visible frame). Basically, a black frame of about 0.5 milliseconds to accomodate the LCD shutter open/close time. That said, the longer you wait for the shutter to close, the more closed it is (more opaque), so there's favour in waiting a bit longer. The opaqueness of LCD shutters increases roughly logarithmically versus time and plateaus out gradually, 0.5ms is not necessarily the "fully closed" LCD shutter point, at least for many models of LCD shutter glasses. High speed video of LCD shutter glasses shows that an LCD shutter is only about ~90% opaque after 1ms, that still produces 10% crosstalk. There's a crosstalk-versus-brightness tradeoff. Shorter black frame, more crosstalk. Longer black frame, less crosstalk. Law of physics. Doesn't matter what projector technology, if you're using LCD shutter glasses.

(I actually have some old high speed video footage, which I should be posting. Some readers here are already familiar with my high-speed video of LightBoost, but I also captured some high speed video of LCD shutter glasses too (not currently published yet). The ones I have, nVidia 3D glasses, do NOT fully reach >99%+ opacity in 0.5ms. It does mostly go opaque in less than a millisecond, but then gradually becomes more and more opaque as the microseconds tick by, in essentially what resembles like an approximate logarithmic curve... the less opaque, the more crosstalk will occur. If you are only 95% opaque, you will have 5% crosstalk leaking through -- e.g. light gray showing through a white-black vertical edge boundary, etc). Rating of LCD response is often measured to a certain completeness, otherwise, a lot of 2ms LCD's would measure more than 5ms, etc. To minimize crosstalk, you need to choose a "picky" completeness requirement -- that 0.5ms LCD can become a 2ms LCD when you're measuring to, say, 99.5% completeness of transition (0.5% crosstalk leakage), instead of a 95% completeness (5% crosstalk leakage), etc. Voila. Bigger black frame obviously needed.

There are faster LCD shutters that claim 0.1ms open-to-close speed, but I'd really love to see that "light leakage curve" at the microsecond scale. Is it truly all the way to 99.5%+ opaque in 0.1ms? (even 0.5% is still visible crosstalk). It's wholly possible the projector manufacturer decided to add a bigger black frame interval anyway (0.5ms of black frame and get about ~8% dimming relative to 8.3ms (1/120sec) refresh cycle, or 2ms of black frame, and get about ~33% dimming (relative to 8.3ms refresh cycle). Since 99% opacity vs 99.5% opacity is a MASSIVE difference in crosstalk (twice as much crosstalk -- leakage of 0.5 IRE on a full-white, versus leakage of 1.0 IRE on a full-white). I'd love to see the high speed video footage of what is happening on the projector screen...

For *LCD shutters*
....more black interval during eye swap interval (shutter open/close), less crosstalk.
....less black interval during eye swap interval (shutter open/close), more crosstalk
....It's the law of physics
....and it shows in high speed 1000fps video footage (of high speed camera pointed through a shutter glasses).

This does not apply to polarized 3D glasses, which some DLP projectors are using (e.g. alternating polarization). For that, you don't have the concept of shutter open/close time.
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 7/24/13 at 11:14pm
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