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Panasonic ST60 vs S60 (50) - Page 3

post #61 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacation View Post

  Quote:



The major difference in motion handling is due to either the motion smoothing option or the 96hz option on the ST60, of which the S60 have neither. (The Cnet review confirms the motion handling as being nearly identical outside of these two instances.) For games, you wouldn't have either of these enabled, and the 96hz would only be for blu-rays (assuming you don't get any flicker), and the motion soothing would be used for? (maybe one the low setting for watching sports?)

The main advantages the ST has is 3D, more shades of gradation (it doesn't have the same posterization issues as the S60), its less reflective and has higher peak light output.

I'm not sure how well documented it is, but I've noticed more issues/complaints of image retention on the 3D capable sets rather than the 2D only sets (different phosphors in the 3D sets are more prone). Perhaps something else to consider, although there are many with the 3D sets without any image retention issues,

Good points, however, CNET measured the peak luminance output on the S at 58 fl and the ST at 56 fl. Depending on the screen size and panel brightness setting, the S60 can actually be a bit brighter. That being said, both are brighter then the VT or ZT 60, but it's the ultra deep black levels and higher contrast of the flagship models that really set them apart from the rest.


Ian
post #62 of 77
It seems to me there are two types of plasma displays. You got your classic soft flowing look kinda like a CRT such as the s60 and an enhanced crispy look with pop like the st. That is the way I see it when looking at plasmas. I would say choosing a display is like choosing speakers, it's subjective and what sounds or looks best to you. I have found it's not always about numbers but what you like best. For me it's a high end samsung plasma and paradigm speakers. I know this forum is mostly made up of panny worshipers and will get flamed for my likes but in this case between the s and the st I feel the st60 is far superior than the s60 from what I have seen.
Edited by spimm - 2/25/14 at 9:29pm
post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post


Good points, however, CNET measured the peak luminance output on the S at 58 fl and the ST at 56 fl. Depending on the screen size and panel brightness setting, the S60 can actually be a bit brighter. That being said, both are brighter then the VT or ZT 60, but it's the ultra deep black levels and higher contrast of the flagship models that really set them apart from the rest.


Ian

 

I guess I should've said that slightly differently. While CNET may have measured higher peak numbers for the S60, the ABL has also been measured to be more aggressive, and when that kicks in, the ST60 would have higher output.

post #64 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacation View Post

I guess I should've said that slightly differently. While CNET may have measured higher peak numbers for the S60, the ABL has also been measured to be more aggressive, and when that kicks in, the ST60 would have higher output.

That was also my impression when I viewed plasmas in a light-controlled showroom.

Btw, does CNet also give numbers for brightness ramping down from the ABL kicking in? Interested to see the white falloff chart for both the ST60 and the S60..
post #65 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by spimm View Post

It seems to me there are two types of plasma displays. You got your classic soft flowing look kinda like a CRT such as the s60 and an enhanced crispy look with pop like the st. That is the way I see it when looking at plasmas. I would say choosing a display is like choosing speakers, it's subjective and what sounds or looks best to you. I have found it's not always about numbers but what you like best. For me it's a high end samsung plasma and paradigm speakers. I know this forum is mostly made up of panny worshipers and will get flamed for my likes but in this case between the s and the st I feel the st60 is far superior than the s60 from what I have seen.

I agree. Personally I have compared all these TV's, and after driving the BB sales people nutz playing with the settings, biggrin.gif I never noticed any significant difference in sharpness between the S and the ST60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post


Btw, does CNet also give numbers for brightness ramping down from the ABL kicking in? Interested to see the white falloff chart for both the ST60 and the S60..

Unfortunately they don't. As I posted some time ago, the ABL doesn't seem to be any more aggressive then my older C2 Panasonic pdp. I'm going to email Lee Niekirk from Review.com and ask him if he has any white fall off data on these TV's.


Ian
post #66 of 77
Interested in hearing from him! Televisioninfo used to have a white falloff data. They don't anymore. frown.gif
post #67 of 77
Thanks to all of you for your comments.

I just bought the 60S60.

Now I just need to learn from scratch how to use/calibrate it for optimal performance!
post #68 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Interested in hearing from him! Televisioninfo used to have a white falloff data. They don't anymore. frown.gif

As promised:

Quote:
Hi Ian,
I measured both at the time of testing. The simple results were that at 5% APL the S60 tested with 132.65 cd/m2, but only 25.58 cd/m2 at 100%. The ST60 tested with 154.21 cd/m2 at 5% and 43.63 at 100%—so yes, I would say that the S60 is the more aggressive of the two.

Lee



Ian wink.gif
post #69 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

As promised:
Ian wink.gif

Thank you! So the S60 really is dim.
post #70 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Thank you! So the S60 really is dim.

This is my second plasma, and after 5 years of viewing movies, sports, and all types of content, on a pdp, I don't consider this set dim. Despite its lower peak brightness, and ABL, it's deep inky blacks and high contrast levels, provide a lot more pop then my LCD.


Ian
post #71 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

This is my second plasma, and after 5 years of viewing movies, sports, and all types of content, on a pdp, I don't consider this set dim. Despite its lower peak brightness, and ABL, it's deep inky blacks and high contrast levels, provide a lot more pop then my LCD.


Ian

You're right. It's superb black is a life saver. Without it, I would have complained way more. My previous LG plasma also had ABLs this bad, but unfortunately it also had poor black, so it really felt dimmer than it actually was.
post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

You're right. It's superb black is a life saver. Without it, I would have complained way more. My previous LG plasma also had ABLs this bad, but unfortunately it also had poor black, so it really felt dimmer than it actually was.

Anyone who appreciates the advantages of plasma technology over LCD's, will love this TV.


Ian wink.gif
post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Anyone who appreciates the advantages of plasma technology over LCD's, will love this TV.


Ian wink.gif

Speaking of which, I just came back from seeing Samsung F9000. The detail was good, the colors were vibrant, but felt very 1-demensional compared to my Panny. I liked the F9000's rendition of strawberries better than the Sony X850a, but even so, I felt my Panny does even better with deeper, thicker red. To me, the UHDTVs were like looking through the window. And when watching the same contents downscaled on my S60, it was more like actually opening up that window. So, I really love my Panny.

Unfortunately, I'm less of a movie watcher, and more of a gamer, so it's unfortunate that my Panny's advantages are going to waste somewhat, but it still tries to put out as best picture as possible with deep black. It's just that I felt the ST60 gave me much better picture with less ABL.
post #74 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Speaking of which, I just came back from seeing Samsung F9000. The detail was good, the colors were vibrant, but felt very 1-demensional compared to my Panny. I liked the F9000's rendition of strawberries better than the Sony X850a, but even so, I felt my Panny does even better with deeper, thicker red. To me, the UHDTVs were like looking through the window. And when watching the same contents downscaled on my S60, it was more like actually opening up that window. So, I really love my Panny.

Unfortunately, I'm less of a movie watcher, and more of a gamer, so it's unfortunate that my Panny's advantages are going to waste somewhat, but it still tries to put out as best picture as possible with deep black. It's just that I felt the ST60 gave me much better picture with less ABL.


David Katzmier at CNET addressed the fact that the bigger the panel the lower the luminance level. Under controlled lighting conditions, I've had no issues with the brightness of my 50'' S60.


Ian
post #75 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

David Katzmier at CNET addressed the fact that the bigger the panel the lower the luminance level. Under controlled lighting conditions, I've had no issues with the brightness of my 50'' S60.


Ian

I'm also stuck with the 50 inches. I did purchase a 65 inch one, unfortunately the glass was cracked in transport and I had to return it. frown.gif
post #76 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

I'm also stuck with the 50 inches. I did purchase a 65 inch one, unfortunately the glass was cracked in transport and I had to return it. frown.gif

And the 65's were out of stock? Oh well.


Ian
post #77 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

And the 65's were out of stock? Oh well.


Ian

It was from Sam's Club auction, so yes, unfortunately only returns allowed. Thank goodness they reimbursed me shipping cost as well, but living in Canada, it was a big hassle hauling that huge TV to the States twice!
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