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What is UP with this Samsung Slim Fit CRT!?

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Alright, so I recently bought a 27" 4:3 Samsung 'Slim fit' TX-T2742 2007 SDTV/480i CRT SDTV off of my brother for a measily $40. Ok...Maybe that's not too measily considered most people are basically giving away Tube TV's for pennies, but this IS one of the last CRT models to hit shelves before the technology died all together. As a smaller secondary TV, I want to use it for my NES, SNES, Atari 2600, Wii, VHS & DVD player. However,aside from having a nasty Red Push it seems to have some sort of wierd integrated Dynamic contrast or Brightness fluctuation problem going on....It's noticable and incredibly annoying. The Picture quality will look normal for a moment, but then it basically darkens, black crush will rear it's head and the picture takes on a bit of a harder look which lasts far longer than it's normal look. Sometimes it insantly happens, or there will be a 4 second bright to dark transition...What is this exactly!? and why in the hell would samsung incorperate this crap in a CRT!?....I wish i could turn it off somehow,it's really bugging me...AS for the red push, to compensate, i dialed down the color to 45 instead of 50.

Fixing both of these issues would make me pretty darn happy, especially the brightness/darkening of the screen problem. If it's unfixable, maybe i'm just better off finding a 27" Sony CRT with component cables. My previous 32" Sony Wega CRT had neither issues. I mean i cant seem to find an option to turn this brightness/darkening of the screen thing off, at least on the TV. I still need to get the remote from my brother, so there may be a small inkling of a chance that it can somehow be turned off, but i highly doubt it! tongue.gif
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/18/13 at 11:28am
post #2 of 35
Looks like that model TV has something called DNIe Jr (Digital Natural Image engine Junior) that adjusts contrast and other details. It can be turned off in the "picture" menu. This may be what causes that constant change in contrast.

As far as red push. I would try the different picture modes (dynamic, standard, movie, custom) to see if it is less noticeable, maybe "movie" or "custom", as well as changing the color temp to warm 1 or warm 2, whatever makes skin tones the most accurate.
post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xomoi View Post

Looks like that model TV has something called DNIe Jr (Digital Natural Image engine Junior) that adjusts contrast and other details. It can be turned off in the "picture" menu. This may be what causes that constant change in contrast.

As far as red push. I would try the different picture modes (dynamic, standard, movie, custom) to see if it is less noticeable, maybe "movie" or "custom", as well as changing the color temp to warm 1 or warm 2, whatever makes skin tones the most accurate.

Well here are the basic controls in the 'main' picture menu >

MODE: Custom, Vivid, Movie, Standard
Color tone
Size
Digital NR
TILT

Then once you go into the actual picture settings you get the standard >

Contrast
Brightness
Sharpness
Color
Tint

There doesn't seem to be any way to turn it off in TV's picture control menu. As for the red push, Custom is definitly the only way to fly. 'Movie' looks way too dim and completely washed out, standard fairs a bit better, while dynamic is too vivid.
Once you alter each setting it instantly turns into custom.
post #4 of 35
My Panny has that red push issue on 480i but not on 480p or 1080i, I think I've read it's a common problem to other sets like these as well. On mine I would have to back the color off to near black&white and then I could only go back up a few steps. It would have this huge jump in red just to get the other colors normal. So I needed some finer color tune down in that range so I had to half-ass tweak it using other methods. Two of my picture settings had advanced sub-menus so that helped a little. Cool helped a little but then the whites and skin tones got a blue cast. What helped the most was to back the color off on my DVD player's picture menu which allowed me another positive step up on my Panny menu (helped the other colors without too much red increase).
Other than a lightly used VCR my other stuff is 480p and 1080i so no problems there.

The absolute cure is to adjust it in the service menu in 480i mode.
post #5 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

My Panny has that red push issue on 480i but not on 480p or 1080i, I think I've read it's a common problem to other sets like these as well. On mine I would have to back the color off to near black&white and then I could only go back up a few steps. It would have this huge jump in red just to get the other colors normal. So I needed some finer color tune down in that range so I had to half-ass tweak it using other methods. Two of my picture settings had advanced sub-menus so that helped a little. Cool helped a little but then the whites and skin tones got a blue cast. What helped the most was to back the color off on my DVD player's picture menu which allowed me another positive step up on my Panny menu (helped the other colors without too much red increase).
Other than a lightly used VCR my other stuff is 480p and 1080i so no problems there.

The absolute cure is to adjust it in the service menu in 480i mode.

I'm guessing this annoying DNIE setting could also be disabled in the service menu? I'd really, REALLY love to get in there if i could somehow find
out the code. The red push isn't stopping me from watching movies and playing games on this set, it's the DNIE issue.

I'd hate to have to track down another 27" Component capable CRT on craigs list. :P
post #6 of 35
On my Panny something like that would be in the separate Video menu or a set-up menu (i.e. a different menu system then the Picture menu). Mine also has a Game Mode in the Video menu.
post #7 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

On my Panny something like that would be in the separate Video menu or a set-up menu (i.e. a different menu system then the Picture menu). Mine also has a Game Mode in the Video menu.

Well, I found the service menu code Online. :P It works by pressing Mute,1,8,2 & Power on the remote. Now, what's mind boggling is that the DNIeJr. is already set to 'OFF'....
The amount of options is quite overwhelming and i have no idea how to reduce to red push. I'll post up what it says exactly tomorrow if my fingers are up for it.lol XP
post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Well, I found the service menu code Online. :P It works by pressing Mute,1,8,2 & Power on the remote. Now, what's mind boggling is that the DNIeJr. is already set to 'OFF'....
The amount of options is quite overwhelming and i have no idea how to reduce to red push. I'll post up what it says exactly tomorrow if my fingers are up for it.lol XP

That doesn't surprise me as specialty functions are disabled for 'raw' tuning when in the SM. My Panny resets it's pic settings to a neutral/centered up set.

Be careful messing around in the SM if you don't have the experience. At a minimum write down all of the values before changing anything. Hopefully someone here or specific topic searched within another thread can help you out as some of the tuning items can be quite cryptic especially if someone is not familiar with that brand/model (like me).

The thing I mention before about the set-up/video menu is part of the user menu, not the SM; hopefully DNI on/off is there.
post #9 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

That doesn't surprise me as specialty functions are disabled for 'raw' tuning when in the SM. My Panny resets it's pic settings to a neutral/centered up set.

Be careful messing around in the SM if you don't have the experience. At a minimum write down all of the values before changing anything. Hopefully someone here or specific topic searched within another thread can help you out as some of the tuning items can be quite cryptic especially if someone is not familiar with that brand/model (like me).

The thing I mention before about the set-up/video menu is part of the user menu, not the SM; hopefully DNI on/off is there.



I've searched through the entire main video set up and there doesn't seem to be any way to disable this feature, if that's what you mean by the set-up/video menu being part of the User menu. And here's the entire list of options in the Service Menu.eek! Now, i could live with the RED push(maybe...)
But again it's that pesky integrated DNLie Darkening/Dimming of the picture which happens 90% of the time that's truly breaking my movie and video game experiences. Who's bright idea was to instal this annoying feature especially when the transition from bright to dark is so obvious and distracting. I've been fiddling away with some of the controls, like the tilt/Geometry control options while the DNLie ON/OFF does absolutely nothing. It's hard to be afraid of bricking a smaller sized CRT when they go for pennies. XP Still, i really like this particular set for it's amazing color gamut, bright picture(
When it's not being constantly dimmed) and that it's component cable compatible.Anyways, here are the numerous Picture controls in the SM. wink.gif


Deflection

V Amp
V Shift
H EW
H Shift
V Linearity
V SC
H Parabola
Upper Corner
Lower Corner
Upper Corner6
Lower Corner6
H Trapzium
Bow
Angle
EHT Time
EHT Threshold
EHT Vertical
EHT Horizontal
EHT Vertical2
EHT Horizontal2

Video Adjust 1

R Cutoff
G Cutoff
B Cutoff
R Drive
G Drive
B Drive
Sub Bright
Sub Contrast
Sub Color
Sub Tint
AKB Option
BCL Threshold
BCL Gain
BCL Time
Sub Sharpness
Pilot Low
Pilot High
V-Mute(X100ms)
BCL TCUP

Video Asjust 2

VSU
Melody Volume
HB Start
HB Stop
RG AGC
VM Gain
VM Delay
V Peaking
BLE Tilt
BLE Gain
BLE Mode
BLE Break
CTI Gain
CTI coring
LTI Gain
D-EHT Time
DCT Ratio
VSP COMB
TML

Video Adjust 3

NR Off Value
Gamma Mode
Gamma Corection
BST StartPoint
BST Gain(B)
DPWL GAIN
DPWL Start
DPWL Contrast
PIP Tint
PIP Color
PIP PAL V.Pos
PIP NTSC V.POS
PIP H.Pos
PIP R Cutoff
PIP B Cutoff
PIP R Drive
PIP B Drive
NTSC VERPOS
NTSC VERWIDTH
2ND_CARRIER_THRES

Option B0 41 40 A1 02

1.System
2.ACS
3.AV Jack
4.Tilt
5.Vchip
6.Caption
7.PIP
8.LNA
9.Auto On
10.Standby LED
11.Philippines
12.Osd Language
13.FM Radio
14.Antenna Disp
15.Hi-Deviation
16.Plug Plau
17.DNIe Jr
18.Volume Curve
19.Color Matrix
20.PWM/Parabola

Option 2

21.Child Lock
22.Air/Cable on
23.MaxBeam Check
24.Ser_Data Sum
25.Zoom Option

Hotel Option

1.Hotel Mode
2.Power on Channel
3.Power on Band
4. Power on Volume
5. Max Volume
6. Local Key Lock
7. Power on Source

YC Delay

PAL Delay
Secam Delay
NTSC Delay
PAL(AV) Delay
SECAM(AV) Delay
NTSC(AV) Delay

Test Patten: 0

EEPROM

BUST STOP

CHECKSUM 7D9D

Reset / 07-8-24

G2 Adjust

IBRM
WDRM
CDL
COLOR G B
post #10 of 35
Page 20:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200606/20060609180930859_AA68-03805A-00Eng_0503.pdf
post #11 of 35
Thread Starter 



I checked it out & followed the basic instructions, the DNIe Jr and PIP options aren't available in my
particular models picture settings. It just has Digital NR and TILT. Sigh* XP If there really is No way to get rid of the DNIe, then i guess I'm just best off getting a Sony Trinitron 27" off of Craigs List.
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/20/13 at 5:17pm
post #12 of 35
Weird, that's what came up with your model number on their site but I noticed the downloaded manual has an S rather than a T.

Maybe try that Option B0 41 40 A1 02 #17 in the SM.
post #13 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Weird, that's what came up with your model number on their site but I noticed the downloaded manual has an S rather than a T.

Maybe try that Option B0 41 40 A1 02 #17 in the SM.

Bah, nothing seems to work. I guess that rules out the possiblity of being able to
actually turn it off somehow. Would of been nice to have the 'S' model instead. But it's still mind boggling
why Samsung decided to include a useless OFF/ON switch for DNIe Jr in the service menu when it does absoltely jack.
post #14 of 35
That's bizarre, seems like there's gotta be a way based on the other model. Did you ask your brother about it? Did you get the remote yet? Maybe it's only accessible via the remote (DNI button, p mode, etc.).

You might want to start a new more specific thread like 'How do I turn off DNIe Jr on Samsung TX-T2742 Slim Fit CRT?' but keep in mind folks don't monitor these CRT threads much anymore. I assume you searched for threads on this model and performed keyword searches within those threads.
post #15 of 35
Another suggestion regarding "red push". On many Sony crts there is an option in the service menu to change the color system from NTSC to PAL. PAL eliminates red push and provides more accurate colors. If you're comfortable testing what each value does in the service menu, you may find one that changes the tv from ntsc to pal; maybe "system" or "color matrix". However, I am not familiar with the Samsung service menu. So, just a WARNING, some service menu values CANNOT be changed back to the original values; this is only a suggestion if you want to investigate and would not be angry if the tv completely messed up.
post #16 of 35
Thread Starter 
I picked up the remote yesterday which is how i got into the service menu, and there's no button on the remote itself that can turn it off either. My Brother has absolutely no clue, he's not exactly TV-savy. And yup, i searched the AVS forums and the only Samsung CRT based thread available is for the HD slim fit model which goes on for 99 pages. XO Meanwhile there's nothing about this pesky DNI mode. I wouldn't mind making a thread about this in the Plasma forum, but i have a feeling somebody will shoot me down because it's CRT related. It will probably be redirected to this grave yard/CRT forum.lol XP
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/21/13 at 2:03pm
post #17 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xomoi View Post

Another suggestion regarding "red push". On many Sony crts there is an option in the service menu to change the color system from NTSC to PAL. PAL eliminates red push and provides more accurate colors. If you're comfortable testing what each value does in the service menu, you may find one that changes the tv from ntsc to pal; maybe "system" or "color matrix". However, I am not familiar with the Samsung service menu. So, just a WARNING, some service menu values CANNOT be changed back to the original values; this is only a suggestion if you want to investigate and would not be angry if the tv completely messed up.



I picked up the remote yesterday which is how i got into the service menu, and there's no button on the remote itself that can turn it off either. My Brother has absolutely no clue, he's not exactly TV-savy. And yup, i searched the AVS forums and the only Samsung CRT based thread available is for the HD slim fit model which goes on for 99 pages. XO Meanwhile there's nothing about this pesky DNI mode. I wouldn't mind making a thread about this in the Plasma forum, but i have a feeling somebody will shoot me down because it's CRT related. It will probably be redirected to this grave yard/CRT forum.lol XP
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I checked it out & followed the basic instructions, the DNIe Jr and PIP options aren't available in my
particular models picture settings. It just has Digital NR and TILT. Sigh* XP If there really is No way to get rid of the DNIe, then i guess I'm just best off getting a Sony Trinitron 27" off of Craigs List.

I picked up a 24" version for $20 for my cousin off of Craigslist, and it only has the Digital NR as well. I also couldn't find any way to turn off the DNIe either.
I did some quick calibration, and while the set does look pretty good for $20 it absolutely gets beaten like a ginger step child by the old SD 27 Trinitron of my parents (and the calibration on that TV is barely passable as mediocre). And I can't even think of a good analogy of how badly it's beaten by my HD Trinitron's 480i.

That said it isn't a terrible TV, it looks better than quite a few older CRT sets I've seen.
post #19 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen View Post

I picked up a 24" version for $20 for my cousin off of Craigslist, and it only has the Digital NR as well. I also couldn't find any way to turn off the DNIe either.
I did some quick calibration, and while the set does look pretty good for $20 it absolutely gets beaten like a ginger step child by the old SD 27 Trinitron of my parents (and the calibration on that TV is barely passable as mediocre). And I can't even think of a good analogy of how badly it's beaten by my HD Trinitron's 480i.

That said it isn't a terrible TV, it looks better than quite a few older CRT sets I've seen.


Haha. Well, the SlimFit is a bit dissapointing in the black level department....It's not bad, but my previous Sony Wega Trinitron i picked up in 05 beats it out. There's also a nasty red push and
wierd geometry problems...But ultimately it's the DNIe feature that's killing this set for me AND killing the picture. When it's not on which is rare to begin with, it darkens the pictures the picture
whenever something shadow related or black hits the screen....

On the flip side, the color gamut is SUPER colorful and overall amazing....one of the best i've seen on any CRT and when the DNIe isn't rearing it's ugly head the display produce a nice bright picture. The red push and
geometry wonkyness can be tweaked in the SM or by a calibration i'm guessing, but the DNIe jr?....Doesn't seem to be the case. If somebody knows how to disable it let me know, because i'd hate to have to track down a Sony CRT
off of craigs list and fork over another $50 to get one. XP The DNIe is the only deal breaker for me. I couldn't deal with having to watch movies and play games dark 90% of the time, while
dealing with those annoying akward bright to dark transitions..lol Right now, I'm currently looking for a 27" Sony on Craigs list, but i refuse to get one of the
later trinitrons becuase i can't stand the fact that they're all SILVER. XP
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/21/13 at 5:57pm
post #20 of 35
Well I hope your brother doesn't read this but your should get your money back and apply it to something better; your time is money too. I'm keeping a lookout for a Sony KD34XBR960 or 960N (actually would prefer the N as it doesn't have anti-glare film that tends to get mucked up and probably needs to be painfully removed); has a black front! smile.gif I see 'em anywhere from free to $100 (some try for more but I don't think they sell). The widescreen CRTs require more patience to find though. There's other good brands too (my Panny is an older pre-DVI/HDMI version of one but a great TV).
Now you might be constrained to a 27" 4:3 set due to size and/or weight but those are a dime a dozen out there, see them regularly for free on Craigslist in D/FW. The nice thing is I could actually pick up one of those without a helper (barely); in fact I picked up a free RCA 27" flat HD with built-in HD tuner as a bonus to picking up their free Sony KV-20FS120 (I was going for the Sony and thought the RCA was just a plain jane 27" until I got it home).
BTW there are smaller 16:9 TVs but I think they're still heavy, plus their 4:3 height will be kinda small.
post #21 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Well I hope your brother doesn't read this but your should get your money back and apply it to something better; your time is money too. I'm keeping a lookout for a Sony KD34XBR960 or 960N (actually would prefer the N as it doesn't have anti-glare film that tends to get mucked up and probably needs to be painfully removed); has a black front! smile.gif I see 'em anywhere from free to $100 (some try for more but I don't think they sell). The widescreen CRTs require more patience to find though. There's other good brands too (my Panny is an older pre-DVI/HDMI version of one but a great TV).
Now you might be constrained to a 27" 4:3 set due to size and/or weight but those are a dime a dozen out there, see them regularly for free on Craigslist in D/FW. The nice thing is I could actually pick up one of those without a helper (barely); in fact I picked up a free RCA 27" flat HD with built-in HD tuner as a bonus to picking up their free Sony KV-20FS120 (I was going for the Sony and thought the RCA was just a plain jane 27" until I got it home).
BTW there are smaller 16:9 TVs but I think they're still heavy, plus their 4:3 height will be kinda small.



haha, well...My brother doesn't check out tech-related forums, or come to think of it ANY forum for that matter. :P
And he won't take the TV back, he has no use for it since he just picked up a 37" LCD(eek!...Get ready for some
terrible motion blur and weak black levels!lol) for his bedroom. Instead I'm just going to sell the sammy CRT for $20 on Craigs list.
But yeah, my brother is pretty cheap and tight with cash, so i know getting that $50 back is going to be an endless battle not worth fighting for.lol

As for the KD34xBR960, isn't that considered the holy grail of CRT at least in terms of black level performance?
Normally it would be something i'd go for if it were actually even available in my area, but i'm more interested in getting a bit of an older set that's component
cable compatible since i'm trying to create an 80's-like vintage secondary set up(My main living room set up > 60" S30 1080p plasma for Bluray & Wii U) with my NES, SNES, future Atari 2600 and VHS player. wink.gif
I'll be using it a ton for DVD's and Wii as well, but they'll be hidden as neither of them fit the retro bill. XP I also have a smaller 20" 1992 Sony CRT in storage,
but the poor sucker was accidently left out in the rain. I haven't plugged it in since! Besides it's just not big enough for my needs and it's limmited to composite, so it's just
not ideal for me at least in terms of getting the most out of the Wii. It's got a fantastic retro look to it though.




Anyways! looks like I'll probably be getting this free 27" Sony Trinitron off of Craigs list early next week. B-)
It has component inputs(Green,Blue & Red) and luckily it's in black unlike Sony's newer line of nastly looking Silver
Wega Trinitron's(Previous owner of a 32" from 2005/6 XP ) which i'm sure still have the advantage in terms of offering a tiny bit of a crisper/clearer image
due to the Flatscreen design VS the tube Shaped compared to the Sony above, but whatever it's all good. XP Another thing i really like about
this TV aside from having component inputs and being black, is that it has more of a retro look to it which again would mesh nicely with my retro consoles. wink.gif
The Silver wega's look too modern and the silver makes for a bit of an odd experience when watching movies especially when there's black bars on the screen.
Silver as expected just doesn't contrast that well with the picture.

Hopefully my never ending bad luck doesn't get the best of me, if all goes as planned I'll have this Sony Tube rocking on either
Monday or tuesday. B-) I'm assuming the black levels will beat the Sammy Slim fit's. Hell, my previous 'previous'
32" JVC CRT that i got before the Sony wega back in 1999/2000 had amazing black levels...It's just too bad that
it had some nasty red color bleeding.
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/23/13 at 6:45pm
post #22 of 35
Don't want to derail this, but I'm looking at a similar setup for a big screen soon - the S60. Hoping it's as good with the lag as your S30 is. I've read it's somewhere around 2 frames, at least over HDMI. Sounds like it could be perfect for me.
post #23 of 35
Yeah in defense of your bro' it looks like it was truly working like it was supposed to, he might say you knew what you were buying.

There were higher-end sets than the 960, professional models and much more expensive. The 960 was the last Sony Super Fine Pitch (SFP) CRT made which actually delivered total resolution higher than HD; plus the solid blacks, colors, etc. Here's a good Sony flat screen ref/list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

That chart is incomplete as I believe most of them have component inputs.

Yeah my Panny's silver front bugs me but mostly the bezel edge that reflects CRT light; I took a black Sharpie and 'painted' it (better but I really need to stick some black felt there). I like that the late Sony CRTs have black fronts.

That freebie was of the good ol' CRT genre. Can't beat it for the price!
post #24 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Don't want to derail this, but I'm looking at a similar setup for a big screen soon - the S60. Hoping it's as good with the lag as your S30 is. I've read it's somewhere around 2 frames, at least over HDMI. Sounds like it could be perfect for me.

Hey Pogue! i was actually going to email you later tonight, sorry for the teeny delay. XP
I've heard the S60(Well, the 'ST60' UK panel based on HDTVUKTest's review) is extremely dissaponting and is pushing around 4+ frames of lag at the LEAST via hdmi WHEN shutting off a few of picture control options....If anything, component cables would most likely reduce it by a frame.
This is the case with my S30 S30. I get that ultra low 1 frame/16ms over component cables with Color matrix set to HD(If you're playing SD content such as the Wii, PS2 and the like setting the color matrix to 'SD' will oddly enough increase input lag), color management set to 'OFF" and all video noise reduction turned off. Do the following as well when using HDMI, only this time you get 2 frames of lag...The difference is noticable and quite frankly i just can't deal with anything over 16ms...Knowing that i'm getting a 1 frame delay as is pisses me off, and i can still feel that little difference compared to a lag free CRT SDTV, ESPECIALLY with motion control based titles on the Wii & Wii U. No, it's not going to make you play any worse, but the intuitive factor and 'on the dime' quick response isn't 'quite' there, still excellent regardless! Panny's 2012 panasonics were a major dissapointment again in terms of lag, i had the 2012 42" 720p X5, and the lag was very noticable....THe X5 must of been pushing 3 frames. The color gamut and brightness were superior over my S30, but the auto dimming was terrible....What good is having a nice bright super colorful picture when the Auto dimming kicks in at about 10 minutes and knocks down the brightness in half, also leaving you with Dark & dull colors? If this could be disabled somehow(didn't seem to be the case in the service menu) than fine, but as is it's extremely dissapointing. As expected, the X5's black levels and motion handeling were weak but this is generally the case with any junky Panasonic 720p set.lol


Anyways, i find it hard to believe that the S60 can do 2 frames....It's really hard to even get a proper number, because users in the input lag thread are doing their own tests, making their own calls and a lot of them got it wrong with the 2012 sets. And there's now 2 methods of testing which is getting mixed results. As for the S30, it's still the holy grail in terms of having the lowest input lag of any 1080p Panasonic plasma. If i had a S60 i'd compare it side by side with my S30 and I'd let you guys know if there's any sort of difference and if it goes beyond 2 frames.

But yeah, I'd TOTALY recommend the S30. But keep in mind you're going to need a pro calibration(using Custom & game mode) otherwise you may be annoyed by the problems below.
First of all, cinema mode is JUNK. It has a nasty grey milky haze, it's SUPER dim(especially for videogames and DVD content), the colors are desaturated, it's not as crisp and the image
overall looks dull, flat, lacks punch, sculpt and pop....Custom however is the REAL deal IF you get it pro calibrated, it has some serious potential as this particular set has deep black levels, good
motion, has a bright image(outisde of Cinema and standard mode) and the auto dimming is extremely minimal(unlike my experience with the harsher dimming 2012 Panny's)

Once you get the White detail crush corrected, the unatural piercing bright whites toned down, HIGH gamma(looks too dark/black crush) set to medium, RED push fixed,
and desaturated blues more saturated you'll absolutely love it. Custom & Game mode are capable of producing one hell of a great picture. Now, If the S60 can't do 2 frames, i'd start looking into it man. Hell, if it could AND deliver 1 frame via component
i'd sell my S30 in a heart beat and upgrade to a 55 or 60" S60. XP The superior black levels, brightness and color gamut of the S60 and i'm assuming less problems in regards to the color inaccuracies, gamma(Is there gamma control in the main menu?Panny ALWAYS skimps on their cheaper models...) and whites would be too awesome for words! XP Too bad it doesn't have 3D....I'd go for the ST60, but it has a louvre filtre which effects picture quality(brightness, sharpness,color ect)


Oh, and i hear Samsung's 2012 1080p 50"/60" 3D 'E550' can do 2 frames via HDMI and maybe even
lower with component. It also has the 'label PC to hdmi' trick to unlock 1 frame/16ms of lag but the major downside which WOULD be the deal breaker for me is that
it locks out half of the picture controls including color....XP And I'm betting that the S60 practically rapes it in the black level department.
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/24/13 at 10:01am
post #25 of 35
Are you sure? I heard the ST60 was pushing some bad input lag numbers, but not the S60. Midkay on YouTube and AVS wound up returning the ST60 because the lag was so bad and is much happier with the S60. He has a video of him using an ST60 and an S60 and the difference looks like night and day (though obviously not the most scientific test). The ST60 is getting a LOT of complaints and im reading people say that this is not the case with the S60.

I swear I read someone say that it was measured at around two frames (somewhere around 32-40ms maybe?). I wouldn't count it out just yet. It doesn't seem as bad as the ST60 is at all. Look up midkay on YouTube for those (admittedly not scientific) videos.
Edited by PogueSquadron - 5/24/13 at 2:21pm
post #26 of 35
Thread Starter 
I honestly have no clue about the S60, but if it's still pushing past 2 frames i personally wouldn't bother. But, i'm pretty
picky & anal when it comes to this type of stuff so it may wind up being fine for you. I posted on Midkay's S60 Youtube video and told him to try out a pair
of component cables to see if the display would lag even less. This has been the case on my S30, previous plasma and other 2 LCD's...And apperantly last years ST50, with one user describing it
as a night and day difference in comparison to the laggier HDMI connection. XP

The downside to component is that you're limmited to 720p & 1080i, the colors aren't as rich and vibrant, the brightness is weaker and the picture isn't quite
as crisp and clear. What's more important to you a slight hit in picture quality or an extra frame of lag. :P
post #27 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Yeah in defense of your bro' it looks like it was truly working like it was supposed to, he might say you knew what you were buying.

There were higher-end sets than the 960, professional models and much more expensive. The 960 was the last Sony Super Fine Pitch (SFP) CRT made which actually delivered total resolution higher than HD; plus the solid blacks, colors, etc. Here's a good Sony flat screen ref/list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

That chart is incomplete as I believe most of them have component inputs.

Yeah my Panny's silver front bugs me but mostly the bezel edge that reflects CRT light; I took a black Sharpie and 'painted' it (better but I really need to stick some black felt there). I like that the late Sony CRTs have black fronts.

That freebie was of the good ol' CRT genre. Can't beat it for the price!

Looks like i found the culprit! XP it's called BLE mode in the service menu. It was set to 1, and i switched it to '0'. Now the picture doesn't darken or dim anymore!....But I think i know why Samsung added this gimmickly little feature in...to cover up for the lack luster mid range LCD-like black levels. Xo the BLE dims and darkens the picture to give it more pop almost like some sort of dynamic contrast-like effect and when it's off the set shows it's true colors.lol These aren't the deep rich inky CRT blacks I'm used to, the picture especially when gaming lacks sculpt & pop. It's kind of flat, but this isn't suprising. Even if i reduce the nasty red push somehow in the service menu i still don't think i'll be happy with this set because of the grey blacks. Looks like I'll be ditching this set in favor of a free 27" Sony trinitron off of craigs list.You can't go wrong with a Sony CRT! XD
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Looks like i found the culprit! XP it's called BLE mode in the service menu.

Ah cryptography at its finest. Congrats! (sort of). Maybe that #17 adjusts its affect.

Well at least you've provided a public service here for anyone with one of these and needing to see the service menu list, etc.

Your brother should be happy (sort of). rolleyes.giftongue.gif;)
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

The downside to component is that you're limmited to 720p & 1080i, the colors aren't as rich and vibrant, the brightness is weaker and the picture isn't quite as crisp and clear. What's more important to you a slight hit in picture quality or an extra frame of lag. :P

Component video is not limited to 720p or 1080i. It will happily do 480i, 480p, and 1080p as well. CRTs do not typically use 1080p for the simple fact that it requires a conversion to 1080i in order to display properly on the HDTV implementation they used (540 line interlace). There is no reason that component cannot operate with 1080p, and if you run into a situation where you can't, it has more to do with your equipment being incapable than anything about component video or its specification. There is no reason component colour should not be rich, vibrant, or bright with a crisp and clear picture either. If you are running into this on a CRT, chances are good the unit is not calibrated, or just as likely if the set is very old and/or very used, simply not as bright as it once was. Phosphors wear out with time and use, and as much as we all love these CRTs, that means that the nicest CRT you will ever see has a lifespan of brightness. The more you use it the faster you'll lose it, and if it is in the hands of someone who amps the brightness and contrast very much, it stands to lose its capacity sooner.
post #30 of 35
Indeed but none of my HD output devices will do component 1080p. Maybe my stuff is too old although two have HDMI and one has DVI. I think my Sony Blu-ray is restricted due to copyright issues, component having the lack of content protection like HDMI's HDCP. Could be WaveBoy has the same issue.
And indeed the PQ on component, I've heard some folks get better results than HDMI in some scenarios.
A common problem I've seen with CRT phosphors is the red getting weak. The best I can now get my old GE 27" is dark orange. mad.gif I only use it for a coon-ass Picture&Picture companion to my Panny HD CRT but sometime it's a little weird side by side.
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