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XBox One? - Page 6

post #151 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelan View Post

Well it looks like there is no mention of media center extender function anywhere?

No, Media Center extender functionality is not in XBone.
post #152 of 340
True Sammy, I agree that my current HTPC settup is fine with me. However, I think that Microsoft is trying to tune into IPTV, thus NFL live streamed games or the Halo tv series and the possibility of more IPTV related items in the future all seems interesting to me. As for the volume issue, I'm not sure what you mean. I would still use the audio settup from my HTPC, but "view" it through the Xbox one overlay (the cool snap features for my fantasy football etc). As for controlling my PC, I would still use the HippoRemote, maybe smartglass might offer something similar don't know. This all in one thing would be neat and easier for my less tech savy in-laws and parents when they come to visit the grandkids.

P.S. Sorry for my rant Sammy, you just happened to be the fifth time my post about an Xbox one non-kinect question was immediately followed by the privacy post concerning the kinect .
post #153 of 340
Want Xbone MCE? Plug your HDMI from your 360 in to your One smile.gif
post #154 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

No, Media Center extender functionality is not in XBone.

Provide a link please, I haven't seen anyone confirm this yet.
post #155 of 340
I'm looking forward to the X1.

There is a lot going on with the console and it seems like MS is serious about making the X1 a quality media device. There is a great gaming focus and a growing non gaming focus. They seem eager to get away from the traditional cable/satellite method of tv-like content delivery. Yes they are supporting it for now with the hdmi-in option, but if you read the details of their goals, they intend to move to content directly served to us vs having to rely on a 3rd party middle man.

This stuff takes time though since the content providers are married to the old system and wont budge for any reasonable price. That's been a frustrating thing about this and why its taken so long to even make the bit of progress there has been. That's also why the comp-anise trying to change things are having to turn to original content. Amazon and Netflix are doing just that and MS saw the writing on the wall so they are investing heavily in studios to develop original content. Once that content has grown enough, maybe then you'll see more content providers coming over.

The other reason I'm excited to see the X1 is its Win 8 core. The BUILD event a few weeks back showed us how easy it will be to port apps from Win 8 to the X1, which opens up so many possibilities for 3rd party media support. As long as MS treats the X1 store more like the Windows Store, then it could be something special. I know the MediaBrowser 3 guys would be interested in getting their software on it if it is that open. If Media Center support is going away, this would be a fair alternative, allowing 3rd parties to fill the void.
post #156 of 340
Ok I just read something that might be interesting for this topic.

There is a supposed X1 developer that posted on redditt answering a long list of questions.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1i71s5/i_am_an_xbox_one_dev_ask_me_almost_anything/


The important bit regarding media center is when he answers a question regarding performance of the OS UI and multitasking. He mentions that he had the X1 hooked up to a pc and was using Netflix while using the X1 Skype client snapped to the side.

This is an interesting point. I never considered this, but this could mean that I can simply hook my htpc up to the X1 through hdmi and access Media Center or whatever media software I use. This would effectively replace the extender functionality for me. I get full control as would have before. Now for people that don't have their htpc near a console, that means having to run hdmi instead of accessing it via the network, so that is still something that the extender functionality allowed for.
post #157 of 340
I didn't see it, but will the X1 play blu-rays?, and if it does that means it will have cinavia.
post #158 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

I didn't see it, but will the X1 play blu-rays?, and if it does that means it will have cinavia.

Yes, unfortunately it will play blu-rays. I'm not sure if it's suppose to have DLNA built-in or not like the Xbox 360, but that seems kind of worthless now anyway with Cinavia.
post #159 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

... it won't use IR blasters, it will use use HDMI-CEC to actually control the cable box. By partnering with cable providers who update their boxes to work with it ...

I don't think that will be a stable partnership. Cable companies currently don't have many options for slowing their subscriber bleed, recapturing cord-cutters, or convincing new households to consider paid-tv services. Their only options all require maintaining control of the cable box as the home entertainment nexus. XBone is directly competing for that.

Even if the HDMI-CEC works great at launch, I'm predicting that the cable companies will do their utmost to interfere with that interoperability. They can't hand control to Microsoft and still survive. If there is one thing MS does better than anyone, it's taking a mile the moment one of their "partners" gives an inch.
post #160 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

Want Xbone MCE? Plug your HDMI from your 360 in to your One smile.gif

Exactly, since we have to keep both in our racks since there is no attempt at backwards compatibility.
post #161 of 340
Probably stating the obvious, but what good does that do? The whole point of Extenders is to "extend" the WMC experience to places (note plural) that are not next to the PC running WMC. So the whole "run HDMI into the Xbox One" is pretty useless since you can't run an independent HDMI connection to each Xbox One you have.

As for the One itself, I haven't made up my mind yet. I preordered one (since it can't hurt to be on the list), but until I get some info on what wheels (Fanatec please) will be compatible I'm not sure if I'm going to stay on the list. On top of that the focus seems to be on media and that really doesn't interest me. I've got no interest in a box that only plays media that MS thinks I should want to play and only plays it the way they think it should be played. Same reason I've got no interest in AppleTV.
post #162 of 340
Why on earth would MS include MC extender functionality in XB1? They're trying to kill MC, not promote it. If, and that's a big IF, it even could, it would only work with 8MC (guaranteed), and that's only a paid for option on the PRO version, so the user base would be microscopic. Sorry, MS want nothing to do with Media Center now. They're only supporting the guide updates because they made it an option in 8, and this was only to appease the small (but VERY vocal) media center community.

XB360 will be the only supported way of using an extender until MS kill that one off as well (all depending on how well the XB1 does I suppose - and with MS doing a 180 every other week at the moment, who knows)
post #163 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

This is an interesting point. I never considered this, but this could mean that I can simply hook my htpc up to the X1 through hdmi and access Media Center or whatever media software I use. This would effectively replace the extender functionality for me. I get full control as would have before. Now for people that don't have their htpc near a console, that means having to run hdmi instead of accessing it via the network, so that is still something that the extender functionality allowed for.

You could, except that defeats the whole purpose of an extender setup as stanger said. The whole HDMI control interface is just a dumb kludge to try and work around cable and satCos that don't want to lose control over the UI and the STB rental income and it will likely fail (i.e. not be used) just like GoogleTV.

The real answer that MS is chasing is to have access to all those channels directly, not through hacks like this. Pretty much what Apple and Intel are also trying to do.
post #164 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post


As for the One itself, I haven't made up my mind yet. I preordered one (since it can't hurt to be on the list), but until I get some info on what wheels (Fanatec please) will be compatible I'm not sure if I'm going to stay on the list. On top of that the focus seems to be on media and that really doesn't interest me. I've got no interest in a box that only plays media that MS thinks I should want to play and only plays it the way they think it should be played. Same reason I've got no interest in AppleTV.



I know this gets said a lot, but are they really focused so much on media that they aren't also focused on gaming? I could run down the list of gaming focused features, but surely your already aware of them. Not to mention the big bucks they are spending just in the first year on exclusive titles.

It just seems like that because MS spends any amount of time on media features, or invests heavily in media areas, people assume that means they don't care about gaming or gaming features, ignoring things like their E3 showcase and various features. As far as a racing wheel, I agree that if you play the racing sims seriously, this is a big point and we will see how much support there is at launch. To be honest, I can't see it being very hard for a wheel manufacturer to retool their parts for the X1, I don't think they messed with the way a wired controller connects.

Here is what it boils down to: Do you like the games MS has announced so far? If you do, then there is a lot to like about the X1. If you don't, then find out if you prefer the PS4 launch lineup.


Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

You could, except that defeats the whole purpose of an extender setup as stanger said. The whole HDMI control interface is just a dumb kludge to try and work around cable and satCos that don't want to lose control over the UI and the STB rental income and it will likely fail (i.e. not be used) just like GoogleTV.

The real answer that MS is chasing is to have access to all those channels directly, not through hacks like this. Pretty much what Apple and Intel are also trying to do.

Well as I said, it would work in my situation. I have never used the extender functionality on my 360. Why? Because my main htpc is in the same room as my home theater, making it more logical to just access it directly. For the rooms that just had a console, I was only streaming music and not video, so I simply used the network function, again not as an extender.

So now, if the X1 does offer a wider range of media content beyond the 360, I can leverage that and also access my htpc interface for my local content on one device. That could be pretty cool. Add in voice and gesture control and you have a lot of new possibilities.

The last piece of this is for MS to open up the X1 store like the Windows Store and let devs publish apps under the same system. We already know MS has created the tools to easily port from Win 8 to the X1, so that's half the battle. If they do open it up, then in the rooms I don't have a htpc, my X1 could load an app like MediaBrowser 3(they have a Win 8/RT app in beta) for accessing all my local content.

To me, this would be the best setup yet for my hometheater. I just hope they follow through and they can secure more tv content going forward, so we don't have to deal with the delay/obstruct strategy of the cable cos.
post #165 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

I know this gets said a lot, but are they really focused so much on media that they aren't also focused on gaming? I could run down the list of gaming focused features, but surely your already aware of them. Not to mention the big bucks they are spending just in the first year on exclusive titles.

I'm not saying they are, I just sort of get that feeling. Like I said I already preordered a One and Forza 5.
Quote:
It just seems like that because MS spends any amount of time on media features, or invests heavily in media areas, people assume that means they don't care about gaming or gaming features, ignoring things like their E3 showcase and various features. As far as a racing wheel, I agree that if you play the racing sims seriously, this is a big point and we will see how much support there is at launch. To be honest, I can't see it being very hard for a wheel manufacturer to retool their parts for the X1, I don't think they messed with the way a wired controller connects.

I hope not, but I've got a Fanatec Porsche 911 GT2 and I haven't seen anything regarding wheels for the One other than Xbox 360 accessories will not work with the One. Given Fanatec was the licensed partner for wheels for Forza 4 it seems odd/unfortunate/worrying that Fanatec hasn't even announced that they're working on a wheel, or given the prominence of Forza 5 as a launch title there being so little talk of wheels for it.
Quote:
Here is what it boils down to: Do you like the games MS has announced so far? If you do, then there is a lot to like about the X1.

I'm kind of disappointed they backpedaled so far on the DRM thing (I know, sounds weird coming from me) but I was looking forward to not needing the disc in the One to play games.
Quote:
So now, if the X1 does offer a wider range of media content beyond the 360, I can leverage that and also access my htpc interface for my local content on one device. That could be pretty cool. Add in voice and gesture control and you have a lot of new possibilities.

I'm really not thrilled Kinect has to be connected for it to work. I couldn't care less about Kinect, but beyond that it just won't work in my setup, not with the Xbox being 30 feet from the screen in a cabinet. That and the always-on micrphone doesn't give me a warm fuzzy either (not that I think they'll do anything intentionally nefarious with it).
Quote:
To me, this would be the best setup yet for my hometheater. I just hope they follow through and they can secure more tv content going forward, so we don't have to deal with the delay/obstruct strategy of the cable cos.

I just don't expect the One to be worth a crap for media, companies like Microsoft and Apple have shown time and time again they don't understand how people (enthusiasts) use media, or worse they don't care and want to lock people into their ecosystem. It's got a Blu-ray drive, but I expect to player to be average at best.
post #166 of 340
MS are trying, once again, to be the 'be all and end all' of the home entertainment system. They've tried this before, and failed, so now they're having another go (do they ever learn!). The XB1 is trying to be the jack of all trades, but is likely going to me the master of none. In order to achieve this 'universal' box, MS have litterally had to implement 3 different operating systems, with each one having to compromise in order to achieve all the features MS want. The live TV is only really going to work properly in the US, and then most consumers already have their TV requirements sorted. The TV functionality is, at best, a way for MS with spy on what you watch so they can target specific ads at you, or monitor how many people are watching the screen (using Kinect) when the ads are played. It really is big brother this time.

The gaming functionality (compared to the PS4) is weak in a number of areas, so the console has been savaged in that area as well. Just like Windows 8 where MS totally ignored there core desktop customers in the push for 'Modern UI glory', they're doing the same with the Xbox One. Let's do everything for everybody, but nothing particularly well, and our core audience of gamers who just wanted an outstanding games console will now get something that doesn't quite hit the mark in anything (they certainly annoyed a huge number of people before and during E3 with their awful marketing). Let's say nothing about the DRM they wanted to implement (and probably eventually will), forcing people into using the console the way they want you to rather than the way you want to (sound familiar).

MS have had to do so many 180's lately, they must be getting dizzy!
post #167 of 340
So will it still work for games in our racks and just not kinect games and features?
post #168 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

That and the always-on micrphone doesn't give me a warm fuzzy either (not that I think they'll do anything intentionally nefarious with it).
I just don't expect the One to be worth a crap for media, companies like Microsoft and Apple have shown time and time again they don't understand how people (enthusiasts) use media, or worse they don't care and want to lock people into their ecosystem. It's got a Blu-ray drive, but I expect to player to be average at best.


One thing to remember is that you can completely disable that microphone, it doesn't have to be on.

Also, I agree that these companies have not given us what we want in terms of media up to now. My point about the X1 had less to do with MS themselves providing the solution and more to do with them getting out of the way so that a 3rd party app dev could fill the gaps. If they push an Xbox Store that is modeled after the Windows Store and if porting is as easy as they claimed at BUILD, then who cares what MS themselves offer? Like I said, there are already Windows 8 apps in the works that can fill in the media gaps, especially for local media access.

It seems clear MS wants to get around the cable companies, why else spend so much money building up original content studios and the deal with the NFL. I think MS can improve their media usefulness over this gen, but ultimately its a possible app store that could solve the problems.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

MS are trying, once again, to be the 'be all and end all' of the home entertainment system. They've tried this before, and failed, so now they're having another go (do they ever learn!). The XB1 is trying to be the jack of all trades, but is likely going to me the master of none. In order to achieve this 'universal' box, MS have litterally had to implement 3 different operating systems, with each one having to compromise in order to achieve all the features MS want.


Wait, how is their OS config compromising to each one? It sounds like they actually compliment each other. You have two OSes, an Xbox OS that is small and light, handling all the gaming tasks, and a Win 8 core that handles all of the media features, multitasking, etc. The third part of this is a Hyper V environment that allows the two OSes to work together seamlessly.

That is an issue I have with arguing against MS pursuing these features. Win 8 is already a jack of all trades OS. Its a PC OS, so that means its more suited to handling pc-like features. Then they keep an Xbox OS in order to maximize performance while gaming since Win 8 is not nearly optimized enough for a single task like that.

Quote:
The live TV is only really going to work properly in the US, and then most consumers already have their TV requirements sorted. The TV functionality is, at best, a way for MS with spy on what you watch so they can target specific ads at you, or monitor how many people are watching the screen (using Kinect) when the ads are played. It really is big brother this time.

It is coming to the US first, but MS made it clear they are working for international support, meaning support for international TV services and of course, online options. To me, the tv stuff is just a stop gap for MS while they build up more original content and convince more content providers to deal directly with them and not through the cable company. No one has cracked into this market due to the brick wall put up by content providers and the cable/satellite providers. MS and other companies are trying to chip away at that wall though.

I suppose its fully possible MS wants to spy on us with Kinect, but I find it unlikely that they care as much about it since they are allowing us to completely disable Kinect from the dashboard (and still use all of the media services of course), not to mention that most people are probably like me and cover their Kinect when not being used, so even if the disable setting is a lie, they won't be seeing anything. Of course if the setting is a lie, they will be sued and lose big time, something else I doubt they want.

Quote:
The gaming functionality (compared to the PS4) is weak in a number of areas, so the console has been savaged in that area as well. Just like Windows 8 where MS totally ignored there core desktop customers in the push for 'Modern UI glory', they're doing the same with the Xbox One. Let's do everything for everybody, but nothing particularly well, and our core audience of gamers who just wanted an outstanding games console will now get something that doesn't quite hit the mark in anything (they certainly annoyed a huge number of people before and during E3 with their awful marketing). Let's say nothing about the DRM they wanted to implement (and probably eventually will), forcing people into using the console the way they want you to rather than the way you want to (sound familiar).

MS have had to do so many 180's lately, they must be getting dizzy!


Two big points here.

First, as far as I know the only area where the X1 is weaker in the gaming area is that Sony chose a faster version of the gpu MS chose, which leads to a 40-50% difference in raw gpu power. Other than that, I don't see anything else missing. Again, here we have a claim that MS isn't offering a gaming focus at all with the X1. Their E3 event was entirely game, with zero media discussion and zero Kinect discussion, and yet its glossed over as meaningless. Look, bash MS for lots of things, but they showed a very strong gaming focus at E3. They laid out many great gaming features and made it clear they will not shy away from spending the big bucks to bring quality titles to the console.

The second point is about the DRM change. I am continuously shocked by how much MS gets creamed for changing their policy. MS can't even make a positive change without criticism. So many were pleading with MS to change their minds and MS decided to do just as they asked. No more DRM system and going Region Free. This is bad? This should be denounced and ridiculed? I swear that while Sony gets forgiven for its past issues, MS gets no such chance even when they realize their mistake and correct it BEFORE launch. MS could have tried it the Sony way and refused to react to the outcry/criticism, pushing out the PS3 as they wanted, but they didn't. I'm sorry, but I'd rather a company try to right the wrongs before a product is launched not after.

As a consumer, I'm happy that MS changed the policies and I'm glad they have come out and admitted they screwed up and want to make things right and work with the gaming community more.
post #169 of 340
it seems there is still no confirmation one way or another on MCE functionality...

however, if MS really wanted to go around the cable companies, they would have included cable card and dvr functionality. even better, they would have been supporting allvid all along, which they have not been.

rather, instead they are leaving users tied to connecting to a slow cableco provided DVR with fixed storage capabilities. the cable company and network distribution agreements are still in effect - they have no chance of providing a complete solution to replace cable with ip distribution anytime soon, so users will have to pay for both if they want to keep anything close to their current access. (eg is the guide on the xbone going to require paying for xbox live?)

there is no way i will be connecting my 360 to an xbox one to use as an extender. that is ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

MS are trying, once again, to be the 'be all and end all' of the home entertainment system. They've tried this before, and failed, so now they're having another go (do they ever learn!). The XB1 is trying to be the jack of all trades, but is likely going to me the master of none....

i agree completely. i am not paying 400 for a halfway functional xbone that tries to do everything the wrong way. HDMI/IR blaster control is a complete joke.

My hdhomerun prime, win 7, 360 setup is doing just fine. no need to pay more money for a clearly inferior solution.
post #170 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelan View Post

however, if MS really wanted to go around the cable companies, they would have included cable card and dvr functionality. even better, they would have been supporting allvid all along, which they have not been.

Um AllVid never existed, it was just a proposal that the FCC dumped when the MSOs told them to pound sand. There is no industry standard for IP access to cable content at this time.

And MS wants nothing to do with Cablecard because it sucks for the average consumer (which we are not). That includes not supporting CC-based network tuners like the Prime.

I agree with the rest of your post, but there are valid reasons why we are stuck with cards right now (basically because the FCC is not doing their job) and why they are not worth the trouble for most folks.
post #171 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

Wait, how is their OS config compromising to each one? It sounds like they actually compliment each other. You have two OSes, an Xbox OS that is small and light, handling all the gaming tasks, and a Win 8 core that handles all of the media features, multitasking, etc. The third part of this is a Hyper V environment that allows the two OSes to work together seamlessly.

That is an issue I have with arguing against MS pursuing these features. Win 8 is already a jack of all trades OS. Its a PC OS, so that means its more suited to handling pc-like features. Then they keep an Xbox OS in order to maximize performance while gaming since Win 8 is not nearly optimized enough for a single task like that.

Well, the major compromise is that the 'games' engine only has access to 5GB of RAM, the 'other' O/S consumes 3GB of that, so that's a big compromise straight away. The RAM is 'only' DDR3 as well, which has huge bandwidth limitations compared to the GDDR5 in the PS4. I know the XB1 has 32MB ESRAM, but this is such a small amount it's going to be next to useless, and is has to be addressed separately from the main system RAM, so there's a penalty hit there as well. While we all here appreciate good media capabilities, the XB1 is just trying to be too much. MS have themselves confirmed they want to 'own' the living room, so all your media consumption goes through the XB1. The information they would collect (for targeted advertising) would be just unbelievable, and that's exactly what MS want to do. They've already confirmed this with the overhauled Bing search engine in Windows 8.1, and the same will be happening with the XB1.

As for Windows 8, you're right, it is a 'jack of all trades' O/S that so far has definitely proved itself to be a master of none.
post #172 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

It is coming to the US first, but MS made it clear they are working for international support, meaning support for international TV services and of course, online options. To me, the tv stuff is just a stop gap for MS while they build up more original content and convince more content providers to deal directly with them and not through the cable company. No one has cracked into this market due to the brick wall put up by content providers and the cable/satellite providers. MS and other companies are trying to chip away at that wall though.

I'll believe that when I see it. MS only really make devices for the US market, everything else is an afterthought or a kludge. They even consider Japan a 'tier 2' country, so won't be launching the XB1 there for a long time.

If MS can monitor exactly what you're watching, or how many are watching it, or what gender is watching the TV through the XB1, it will be able to deliver highly targeted ads straight to the screen for whoever's watching, and I'm pretty damn sure you won't be able to skip past them. If the Kinect see's you drinking a certain type of beer, up pops an ad. If you're eating a certain brand of chips, up pops another ad relating to similar items. They're intruding right into your personal space, and people won't even notice it. It's an advertiser's wet dream, and you better believe they'll use it.
post #173 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelan View Post

it seems there is still no confirmation one way or another on MCE functionality...

however, if MS really wanted to go around the cable companies, they would have included cable card and dvr functionality. even better, they would have been supporting allvid all along, which they have not been.

rather, instead they are leaving users tied to connecting to a slow cableco provided DVR with fixed storage capabilities. the cable company and network distribution agreements are still in effect - they have no chance of providing a complete solution to replace cable with ip distribution anytime soon, so users will have to pay for both if they want to keep anything close to their current access. (eg is the guide on the xbone going to require paying for xbox live?)

there is no way i will be connecting my 360 to an xbox one to use as an extender. that is ridiculous.
i agree completely. i am not paying 400 for a halfway functional xbone that tries to do everything the wrong way. HDMI/IR blaster control is a complete joke.

My hdhomerun prime, win 7, 360 setup is doing just fine. no need to pay more money for a clearly inferior solution.




How does including a cablecard get around the cable companies? Customer still require a cable subscription to make use of that.

No, getting around the cable companies means dealing directly with the content providers and getting them to push their content to your device/platform. Cablecard support doesn't do that.

I don't quite understand the animosity around this, but MS seems to clearly be working on getting the content directly, therefore cutting out the need for the cable company. MS isn't alone in this strategy. Amazon, Netflix, even Google are trying to do the same thing. MS specifically is investing original content from media studios they have started with veterans from various tv networks.

Look I'm not saying they will have a great service or anything, I'm just saying it looks like they are trying. If they can convince more content providers to support them and also support a wide range of online streaming services, it could be something good. We will see.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

Well, the major compromise is that the 'games' engine only has access to 5GB of RAM, the 'other' O/S consumes 3GB of that, so that's a big compromise straight away. The RAM is 'only' DDR3 as well, which has huge bandwidth limitations compared to the GDDR5 in the PS4. I know the XB1 has 32MB ESRAM, but this is such a small amount it's going to be next to useless, and is has to be addressed separately from the main system RAM, so there's a penalty hit there as well. While we all here appreciate good media capabilities, the XB1 is just trying to be too much. MS have themselves confirmed they want to 'own' the living room, so all your media consumption goes through the XB1. The information they would collect (for targeted advertising) would be just unbelievable, and that's exactly what MS want to do. They've already confirmed this with the overhauled Bing search engine in Windows 8.1, and the same will be happening with the XB1.

As for Windows 8, you're right, it is a 'jack of all trades' O/S that so far has definitely proved itself to be a master of none.


I think the ram performance question is still very much unknown. I know you want to dismiss the ESRAM as nothing, but since we know nothing for sure about how the two ram systems compare, its hard to say. The gpu issue is the clear difference at this point.

As far as ram amount, I'm not sure if its been confirmed for the ps4, but I believe the rumor was that there would be 7gb available for games vs the 5gb you mentioned. This could be a big deal, so we will see. There was some talk about MS deciding to up the ram to 12gb, but that was in reference to the dev kits, so who knows.

I just don't get why its so wrong for MS to pursue media features. They are pursing gaming at the same time, so I really don't see the big deal.

As far as collecting information from users, this is another topic where we are at a loss for real facts. The 8.1 Bing feature your talking about is the fact that you can choose to enable Bing search results to show up when you do a system wide search. Those web results will include ads. Again, its an optional feature, so we can all avoid it if we wish. Its clear you assume MS is eager to do tons of data mining, and its possible considering companies like Google are very successful doing the same thing. For me, as long as I have control of these features, it doesn't bother me. Both the X1 and 8.1 don't make using those features mandatory.


I got a good chuckle about your Win 8 point. Of course what I was REALLY saying was that the Windows OS has always been a general purpose OS, not optimized for a single purpose. Win 8 is no different in that regard. Take all the shots at it you want, but this isn't about that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

I'll believe that when I see it. MS only really make devices for the US market, everything else is an afterthought or a kludge. They even consider Japan a 'tier 2' country, so won't be launching the XB1 there for a long time.

If MS can monitor exactly what you're watching, or how many are watching it, or what gender is watching the TV through the XB1, it will be able to deliver highly targeted ads straight to the screen for whoever's watching, and I'm pretty damn sure you won't be able to skip past them. If the Kinect see's you drinking a certain type of beer, up pops an ad. If you're eating a certain brand of chips, up pops another ad relating to similar items. They're intruding right into your personal space, and people won't even notice it. It's an advertiser's wet dream, and you better believe they'll use it.


Japan being tier 2 isn't meant to be an insult. The have a finite number of consoles at launch, so they have to target their biggest markets first. That means the US and Europe. Japan has never been as big of a market for them, so Japan will get the second wave of consoles as they are built.

Don't forget that the X1 is region free, so that means it can be imported in a pinch.

Look, as I said before, as long as MS allows me to opt out, I'm not really bothered by it (regarding disabling Kinect). Your description of monitoring media watching and supplying target ads sounds a lot like most other media services such as Youtube and traditional TV service.

MS made a point to show and say that they will not be pushing ads to your home dashboard, so they seem to be trying to make its more palatable. I'm waiting to see what the reality turns out to be at this point. I've accepted the fact that these next gen consoles are going to have their share of ads. If MS wants to spy on customers, they are in for some serious legal trouble unless they offer some sort of opt-in system to let Kinect do the things your expecting.
post #174 of 340
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Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

How does including a cablecard get around the cable companies? Customer still require a cable subscription to make use of that.

No, getting around the cable companies means dealing directly with the content providers and getting them to push their content to your device/platform. Cablecard support doesn't do that.

I don't quite understand the animosity around this, but MS seems to clearly be working on getting the content directly, therefore cutting out the need for the cable company. MS isn't alone in this strategy. Amazon, Netflix, even Google are trying to do the same thing. MS specifically is investing original content from media studios they have started with veterans from various tv networks. ...

You are right, there is no way to get around the cable companies at this point. But at least now I can control the way that I consume the media I purchase. Pulling media center out of the xbone would be a serious regression in consumer capability. Renting cable boxes is equivalent to renting a cable modem.

If MS already had deals with content providers in place to move technology forward, then fine. But they do not (and I mean HBO, espn, local networks, etc...). And they would be selling out the crowd here that has been heavily supporting their products for many years - bad move. There is NO excuse to pull backwards compatibility for MCE functionality - just copy the code over. The only purpose would be to try and force their new half-baked media strategy on us.
post #175 of 340
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Probably stating the obvious, but what good does that do? The whole point of Extenders is to "extend" the WMC experience to places (note plural) that are not next to the PC running WMC. So the whole "run HDMI into the Xbox One" is pretty useless since you can't run an independent HDMI connection to each Xbox One you have.

As for the One itself, I haven't made up my mind yet. I preordered one (since it can't hurt to be on the list), but until I get some info on what wheels (Fanatec please) will be compatible I'm not sure if I'm going to stay on the list. On top of that the focus seems to be on media and that really doesn't interest me. I've got no interest in a box that only plays media that MS thinks I should want to play and only plays it the way they think it should be played. Same reason I've got no interest in AppleTV.

I'm all Fanatec myself and hope for compatibility. But that's another conversation. wink.gif I was a little disappointed in MS reversal of certain policies. No disk in tray would've been great. My components are wired into my home distribution. Not having to go to the basement to change games would've been nice. As far as MS spying on us, I believe we are been followed/tracked more than we know. Just watched a show on how retail stores are using facial recognition software. When you walk in a camera gets your face and then they follow you thru the store with its other cameras. They say its so they know the patterns of the customer flow. But when customers found out they stopped. Or so they said. biggrin.gif
post #176 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

If MS can monitor exactly what you're watching, or how many are watching it, or what gender is watching the TV through the XB1, it will be able to deliver highly targeted ads straight to the screen for whoever's watching, and I'm pretty damn sure you won't be able to skip past them. If the Kinect see's you drinking a certain type of beer, up pops an ad. If you're eating a certain brand of chips, up pops another ad relating to similar items. They're intruding right into your personal space, and people won't even notice it. It's an advertiser's wet dream, and you better believe they'll use it.

Seriously? How hard is it to put a piece of cardboard over the camera? It's not like all the games, streams, etc. are going to require you to have Kinect running with a valid image.

Lots of tin-foil hat stuff going on here, the user community will ensure that this stuff doesn't get out of hand.
post #177 of 340
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Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

Well, the major compromise is that the 'games' engine only has access to 5GB of RAM...

How many games do you know that use more than 5GB of RAM to play?
post #178 of 340
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Seriously? How hard is it to put a piece of cardboard over the camera? It's not like all the games, streams, etc. are going to require you to have Kinect running with a valid image.

Lots of tin-foil hat stuff going on here, the user community will ensure that this stuff doesn't get out of hand.

Many super liberal places, such as Chicago, New York, and DC, have already banned cardboard since it can be used to circumvent their control. They added it to their "no big sodas you fatty" laws.

wink.gif
post #179 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Seriously? How hard is it to put a piece of cardboard over the camera? It's not like all the games, streams, etc. are going to require you to have Kinect running with a valid image.

Lots of tin-foil hat stuff going on here, the user community will ensure that this stuff doesn't get out of hand.

(A) Its my GD hardware it shouldn't be spying on me in the first place. If they were giving it away for free, then you would have a point that it is not a imposition for the user to take countermeasures. But when I effing paid for it, the idea that I have to take countermeasures against it is ridiculous.

(B) The "user community" won't have a clue. Tman's scenario is just the most simplistic. What is more likely to happen is that the data will be collected surreptitiously. There won't be a straight-forward obvious and visible connection to the data gathering and the data use. Instead of immediately popping up a commercial when you walk in the room, its going to be more like record how long you are in the room and then send that data off to profiling companies like BlueKai who will add all of that info to the dossier they keep on you. Spend too long sitting in front of the tv? BlueKai will sell that to your health insurance company and your rates will go up and you won't even know the xbone ratted you out.

Right now, today, tivo is reporting what commercials people fast-forward through and which ones they watch and then combining that with the purchasing records from supermarket loyalty cards to see just how susceptible people are to different kinds of marketing. This is not tin-foil hat stuff, this is the reality TODAY. It is only going to get worse.

http://adage.com/article/dataworks/tivo-trolls-acquisitions-data-ad-sales/239510/
post #180 of 340
Like I said, lots of paranoia going on here now, I dispute that any of this is harmful in any way but OMG they're all spying on us... rolleyes.gif

All of this will be disclosed is my point (one way or the other) AND you will be able to opt-out, it's not going to be a hidden agenda - hence the tin-foil hatting.
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