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Dual SVS | Hardwood Floors | Next Door Neighbor

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
I have my 2 SVS SB12-NSD in opposite corners, left and right of my display. This is against an exterior wall. It's a single home with a good 20 feet between that exterior wall and the next door neighbor. The subs are directly on hardwood flooring. I've attached two pictures below of the subs on the hardwood (one is hidden in the corner behind the lounger). The volume knob on the subs is just over 1/4, less than 1/2 on both subs, my sub level in my receiver is set at -3.5dB, and my whole sound system, including the subs, is calibrated with Audyssey XT in my Onkyo AVR.

If I listen to music or movies with lots of bass, above -15/-12dB the next door neighbor says that his house is shaking

While buying a new sofa, while talking to the salesman about carpets etc... he said that he was an ex-electronic salesman and that I should install four vinyl bumpers (picture attached) in each corner underneath the sub. He said it would help eliminate the bass transfer to the floor and reduce (or eliminate) the vibration in my neighbor's house.

Will this work ?? If so, should I use the bigger 3/4" ones from the pic and put one in each four corners? Or the smaller 1/2" ones?

If this won't work, any other suggestions to help take away my anxiety whenever there's a loud LFE passage

Thx !











Edited by Blu_One - 5/23/13 at 10:47pm
post #2 of 52
Interesting....I use an SB12 in my master bedroom, house has hard wood floors, volume knob on the subwoofer is set to 1/2, I watch movies and listen to music and as long as the bedroom door is closed sound does not disturb anyone else in the house.
post #3 of 52
Unless your next door neighbors house is constructed of papier mache and built on a foundation of straws, I call BS.
post #4 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepat04 View Post

Interesting....I use an SB12 in my master bedroom, house has hard wood floors, volume knob on the subwoofer is set to 1/2, I watch movies and listen to music and as long as the bedroom door is closed sound does not disturb anyone else in the house.

Really eh eek.gif

If my system is going, I can go upstairs (master bedroom is right above the TV area in the living room) or downstairs to the basement, and I can definitely hear and feel the bass. If I go outside my house in the yard right along that outside wall where the two subs are positioned, I can feel the vibrations out there coming from the wall. Kinda like when you walk in the parking lot outside a movie theater and you're walking along the building and can hear the bass coming from the different theaters..

How loud are you taking about when you say you can't hear it anywhere else outside your room ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Unless your next door neighbors house is constructed of papier mache and built on a foundation of straws, I call BS.

LOL yeah I don't know.. it's an older couple in their 70's eek.gif so maybe they're just conservative..

But you know when a car goes by outside with loud bass (not a stock sub in the car obviously..), you can definitely hear the bass as the car goes by.. maybe that's what they're talking about. But obviously, that's a different story than his house 'shaking'.

But would those vinyl bumpers help though or are those BS also ??
post #5 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post



But would those vinyl bumpers help though or are those BS also ??

Those would help to decouple the subs a bit from the floor, lessening vibrations to attached structures; but they aren't going to do anything for sound waves passed outside your home. If they are 70, I'm really surprised they can even hear your sub (notice I said hear, as there is no way they are feeling it). cool.gif
post #6 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Those would help to decouple the subs a bit from the floor, lessening vibrations to attached structures; but they aren't going to do anything for sound waves passed outside your home. If they are 70, I'm really surprised they can even hear your sub (notice I said hear, as there is no way they are feeling it). cool.gif

Yeah I'm kinda surprised too..

Well thx for the info, I really appreciate it smile.gif

I'll put on those bumpers, can't hurt I guess.

I don't wanna lose my bass, it's a freakin single home with lots of space between the houses.. and I paid too much for my system not to be able to really enjoy it once in a while..

I wanna play those demo bass clips that I got off the BD demo discs done by some AVS members.. but imagine playing those bass clips one after the other.. they'll freak out next door eek.gif
post #7 of 52
Would mounting each of them on a slab of 1" or thicker granite help?
post #8 of 52
I would guess those pads would help. It may not completely solve the problem though.
post #9 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

While buying a new sofa, while talking to the salesman about carpets etc... he said that he was an ex-electronic salesman and that I should install four vinyl bumpers (picture attached) in each corner underneath the sub. He said it would help eliminate the bass transfer to the floor and reduce (or eliminate) the vibration in my neighbor's house.]
And that's why he went from selling electronics to selling furniture. rolleyes.gif
99.9% of the energy coming out of a sub is acoustically sourced; the amount of mechanical energy transfer between a sub and the floor is slight, and it occurs in the midrange, not the bass.
The only thing that stops bass from passing through walls is mass, lots and lots of mass. If you add another inch of drywall to your exterior walls that would make a big difference.
The other issue is room modes. If you don't have your system placement and EQ set up for the flattest possible in room response you're putting a lot more energy through your system than you should. Inside the room you would not be aware of it, due to room mode sourced nulls. Outside the house those nulls don't exist, and the full force of that energy ends up in your neighbors house.
post #10 of 52
I agree with Bill above. I think the vinyl pads will have a negligible effect. To decouple the sub from the floor cheaply, I think acoustical rubber mats meant to go under new floors is better. My local hardware store has them in 16x16" squares. Stacking two of them under the sub reduced a lot of the vibrations transmitted to the air vent grille and air ducts when I had my SB12 close by. Yet I'm sure most of what you neighbor hears is directly transmitted via air. I really doubt vibrations transmitted from your floor, to your foundations, through 20 ft of soil, and through his foundations, etc. would be noticeable.

If you listen with your windows open... close them biggrin.gif

Else, again agreeing with Bill on EQ. Taming a room response peak will probably lessen sound transmitted outside as you'll pump less energy into a resonating mode of your house. However MultEQ XT should have taken care of that already. You could try running Audyssey again, or taking an independent measurement (e.g. using REW) to see if MultEQ XT has done a good job with your subs.
post #11 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I would guess those pads would help. It may not completely solve the problem though.

It sounds like you need a couple of Subdudes - I have hardwood floors also, and fabricated my own isolation platforms to decouple subwoofer LFE and bass from interacting with the floor. Bass and LFE are much tighter now since getting both subs off the floor.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp
post #12 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

It sounds like you need a couple of Subdudes - I have hardwood floors also, and fabricated my own isolation platforms to decouple subwoofer LFE and bass from interacting with the floor. Bass and LFE are much tighter now since getting both subs off the floor.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp

+1 on the Subdude as it would be your best shot at isolating your possible resonances. I would definitely try it and be sure to purchase from a place that will allow returns in case you are not happy with it! wink.gif

A lot of people seem to also indicate a subjective sound improvement in sub performance using the Subdude.... placebo effect?... maybe, maybe not!

Try it and let us know how you make out!



*** P.S. The regular Subdude comes with a grey industrial looking material covering the platform but if you want a Black Velour to match your subs better look at the Subdude-HT model!

Also, the Subdude platform size is 15" X 15" and if your sub fit great but if it does not fit you might want to look at the Gramma or even bigger Great Gramma Isolation Platforms however it does not appear that they come in the Black Velour material for the covering.


...Glenn smile.gif
Edited by Glenn Baumann - 5/24/13 at 9:00am
post #13 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

It sounds like you need a couple of Subdudes - I have hardwood floors also, and fabricated my own isolation platforms to decouple subwoofer LFE and bass from interacting with the floor. Bass and LFE are much tighter now since getting both subs off the floor.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp
I've measured both in room response and transmission out of the room with and without them and they don't have any effect, other than placebo effect. IME the only thing platforms isolate is you from your money.
post #14 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I've measured both in room response and transmission out of the room with and without them and they don't have any effect, other than placebo effect. IME the only thing platforms isolate is you from your money.

Thanks for your input Bill as I was going to try a couple for my subs!

Mass delusion maybe? wink.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #15 of 52
I beg to differ Bill, getting both of my subs of the hardwood floor in the living room did make a change as far as not making my pocket doors shake during a lot of LFE...
post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

I beg to differ Bill, getting both of my subs of the hardwood floor in the living room did make a change as far as not making my pocket doors shake during a lot of LFE...



HMMMMMMMMM!

I guess I should take my own advice and try the platforms out but purchase where I can return if not satisfied! biggrin.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

I beg to differ Bill, getting both of my subs of the hardwood floor in the living room did make a change as far as not making my pocket doors shake during a lot of LFE...
I assume that you have room response measuring gear that you used to set your system up, so you'd have before and after measurements that prove that you actually heard what you think you did. Please post them. Thanks.
post #18 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post


If you listen with your windows open... close them biggrin.gif

Else, again agreeing with Bill on EQ. Taming a room response peak will probably lessen sound transmitted outside as you'll pump less energy into a resonating mode of your house. However MultEQ XT should have taken care of that already. You could try running Audyssey again, or taking an independent measurement (e.g. using REW) to see if MultEQ XT has done a good job with your subs.


Now how did you know that I like to have the window open.. which is right next to one of the subs. wink.gif I do try to close it though later in the evenings..

Yeah I found what Bill said about the room response and putting more energy into my system than really needed very very interesting.. I think I'll have to look into that a bit more.

Thx for the input on this ! smile.gif
post #19 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

And that's why he went from selling electronics to selling furniture. rolleyes.gif
99.9% of the energy coming out of a sub is acoustically sourced; the amount of mechanical energy transfer between a sub and the floor is slight, and it occurs in the midrange, not the bass.
The only thing that stops bass from passing through walls is mass, lots and lots of mass. If you add another inch of drywall to your exterior walls that would make a big difference.
The other issue is room modes. If you don't have your system placement and EQ set up for the flattest possible in room response you're putting a lot more energy through your system than you should. Inside the room you would not be aware of it, due to room mode sourced nulls. Outside the house those nulls don't exist, and the full force of that energy ends up in your neighbors house.

Thx for this Bill ! you really got me thinking, very interesting points you make that I never considered (I'm far from being an AV expert by any means..)

But why do you say (not in the quoted msg above but in a more recent one you wrote here..) that the pads won't work?? They won't even help in your opinion ?? confused.gif
post #20 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

It sounds like you need a couple of Subdudes - I have hardwood floors also, and fabricated my own isolation platforms to decouple subwoofer LFE and bass from interacting with the floor. Bass and LFE are much tighter now since getting both subs off the floor.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

+1 on the Subdude as it would be your best shot at isolating your possible resonances. I would definitely try it and be sure to purchase from a place that will allow returns in case you are not happy with it! wink.gif

A lot of people seem to also indicate a subjective sound improvement in sub performance using the Subdude.... placebo effect?... maybe, maybe not!

Try it and let us know how you make out!



*** P.S. The regular Subdude comes with a grey industrial looking material covering the platform but if you want a Black Velour to match your subs better look at the Subdude-HT model!

Also, the Subdude platform size is 15" X 15" and if your sub fit great but if it does not fit you might want to look at the Gramma or even bigger Great Gramma Isolation Platforms however it does not appear that they come in the Black Velour material for the covering.


...Glenn smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

I beg to differ Bill, getting both of my subs of the hardwood floor in the living room did make a change as far as not making my pocket doors shake during a lot of LFE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

HMMMMMMMMM!

I guess I should take my own advice and try the platforms out but purchase where I can return if not satisfied! biggrin.gif


...Glenn smile.gif

These look very interesting, I'm willing to try them out for sure ! Hopefully I can find the HT model in Canada.. rolleyes.gif

My subs are 14.2" by 14.2", so I think the 15" Subdude-HT model might just work perfectly for me, and yes, thanks for that, I definitely need that black velour.. WAF is key over here given the setup that I have in our living room..

Many thx for this guys, much appreciated ! biggrin.gif
post #21 of 52
^^^

"Many thx for this guys, much appreciated !" biggrin.gif



You are very welcome!

You can pay us back by being absolutely sure you respond back to this thread with your subjective findings if you try the Subdude! wink.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #22 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

But why do you say (not in the quoted msg above but in a more recent one you wrote here..) that the pads won't work?? They won't even help in your opinion ?? confused.gif
Because the ailment that they claim to fix doesn't exist. If it did you'd have to place your ear on the side of the sub to hear it. Floors simply don't vibrate because a sub is sitting on them. They vibrate due to the sound produced. Any and all with any understanding of acoustic principles are aware of this. What keeps companies selling these things in business is that only a very small percentage of subwoofer owners have an understanding of acoustic principles.
post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Because the ailment that they claim to fix doesn't exist. If it did you'd have to place your ear on the side of the sub to hear it. Floors simply don't vibrate because a sub is sitting on them. They vibrate due to the sound produced. Any and all with any understanding of acoustic principles are aware of this. What keeps companies selling these things in business is that only a very small percentage of subwoofer owners have an understanding of acoustic principles.

+1
post #24 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Because the ailment that they claim to fix doesn't exist. If it did you'd have to place your ear on the side of the sub to hear it. Floors simply don't vibrate because a sub is sitting on them. They vibrate due to the sound produced. Any and all with any understanding of acoustic principles are aware of this. What keeps companies selling these things in business is that only a very small percentage of subwoofer owners have an understanding of acoustic principles.

Oh ok, we'll that's good to know.

I'm getting schooled today that's for sure, love it smile.gif

But now I'm not sure if I should try it, I know you wouldn't tongue.gif

I might try to find a local place where I could return if not satisfied..

So there's no other solution to this ?? confused.gif
post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

Oh ok, we'll that's good to know.

I'm getting schooled today that's for sure, love it smile.gif

But now I'm not sure if I should try it, I know you wouldn't tongue.gif

I might try to find a local place where I could return if not satisfied..

So there's no other solution to this ?? confused.gif

Try to get your older neighbors into HT. smile.gif
post #26 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post


You are very welcome!

You can pay us back by being absolutely sure you respond back to this thread with your subjective findings if you try the Subdude! wink.gif

...Glenn smile.gif

If I do try them.. I'll most definitely report back, no bias wink.gif
post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I assume that you have room response measuring gear that you used to set your system up, so you'd have before and after measurements that prove that you actually heard what you think you did. Please post them. Thanks.

Hi Bill:

My accounting teacher always told me never to assume anything because it makes an a** out of you and me. lol. No I do not have room response measuring equipment. I don't need to prove anything to you - all I'm saying is that bass and LFE sound better to my ears with the subs off the floor. I did use Audyssey to balance the room. If I had the equipment to properly measure my room response before and after isolating the subs, I would be happy to produce a chart with the plotted results. So it goes.

Some further reading - it's a little deep, but interesting:
Accuracy of Prediction Methods for Sound Transmission Loss
http://www.rahe-kraft.com/cms/downloads/Paper586-BallaghNew.pdf
Snip:
Abstract [586]
There are various methods for predicting the sound transmission loss of walls and
floors that can be used by noise control engineers. It is important to know how accurate these methods
are for typical constructions used in Building Acoustics. Results are presented for a number of
different constructions showing how accurately the results of predictions match experimental
laboratory results. The results will show the accuracy over the frequency range 50 to 5,000 Hz. Both
single and double partitions will be discussed.

http://www.mne.psu.edu/lamancusa/me458/9_trans.pdf
TRANSMISSION OF SOUND THROUGH STRUCTURES
Edited by myoda - 5/24/13 at 1:17pm
post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

So there's no other solution to this ??
Not really. If you want to stop bass transmission through the walls it's a structural issue, a fairly major one at that. The absolute best method is to have the outside walls clad with brick on the exterior, using staggered double studded walls to mechanically isolate the inner wall from the outer wall, with two layers of 5/8" sheetrock glued together for the inside wall. Windows would have to be double paned with a vacuum in the space between the panes.

Or you can turn it down. rolleyes.gif
post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Not really. If you want to stop bass transmission through the walls it's a structural issue, a fairly major one at that. The absolute best method is to have the outside walls clad with brick on the exterior, using staggered double studded walls to mechanically isolate the inner wall from the outer wall, with two layers of 5/8" sheetrock glued together for the inside wall. Windows would have to be double paned with a vacuum in the space between the panes.

Or you can turn it down. rolleyes.gif
I appreciate daily the fact that here in the UK we usually use concrete block construction with brick facias - no real noise outside, even when cranked right up! smile.gif
post #30 of 52
Thread Starter 
Well.. I got two Subdude HD. I looked around and found a decent price through an authorized Canadian distributor.

This way, if (when) the neighbours complain again, at least I can say I dropped some coins on trying to fix the (their) problem..

Will most likely try them next week as I'm away for the weekend biggrin.gif

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