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Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 35

post #1021 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Mines about 42db from 8 ft. away and about 47 behind the right fan. What drives me nuts is a high pitch that undulates or throbs for lack of better terms. Does yours do this? My TV will eventually be in a dedicated smaller room and my fear is that it would be much worse than it is in the living room.

While it is a good start, for a meaningful comparison of dB levels, I think you have to consider other factors like the content being viewed, the time TV has been on that content, and the room temperature. Otherwise, a just turned on TV may show less/higher noise depending on any of these conditions.
post #1022 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

^^^^

Thank you! There's that too and a really significant reason for my reaction -- if they sent a repair tech I'd be cool -- I'd believe we were moving towards a solution. But an ISF guy to diagnose a technical problem? No way -- he's coming for one purpose only -- and I'd bet the farm on this -- to arrive at the conclusion that, "It's within norm", even if the fan was as loud as a hurricane. Just my .02.

What bothers me about your line of thinking is why you don't want them to come out to take a look at it. You are basically saying that you don't trust them to be honest and fair. If that's the case, why do you demand trust from them about a problem that could easily be a subjective interpretation of a noise. The real issue with this problem is that everyone's idea of "loud" is different. Some people have better hearing than others. Some people listen to their TV at louder volumes, etc., etc.. Throw in the fact that a real problem might exist, but only affect a select number of set's. I don't feel that it is unreasonable for them to want to come out and witness the issue first-hand. I believe that the noise you are experiencing is annoying to you. What is at question for the store, is whether or not it is out of spec. As far as the tech is concerned, maybe it's easier for them to send out one of their calibrators than an actual repair tech. Maybe this particular guy is the most experienced guy they have. There are plenty of possible and acceptable reasons. They have provided good service up to this point. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Please don't take this as negative. I just don't understand some of your reasoning on this issue.
post #1023 of 11410
Thread Starter 
6a9a2yny.jpg

Standing 2.5ft from the tv and tv has been on now for 13 hours straight

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
post #1024 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

Well, I was on last day of my BB 15 day return window and decided to return my ZT60 due to the noisy fans. Just can't live with the warblingi sound for years. However BB claimed they would extend the return option for 60 day (and got it noted on receipt with signature), so I guess will let this play out a little longer and hope for some resolution from Panasonic.


I think I saw one poster say he got the same terms. Anyone else doing the same? Hope just not delaying the inevitable.

I think it is typical. Spending more then $2500 in a year makes you a silver platinum customer and returns are 60 days.
post #1025 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Yes, you're probably right. What offended me was that they already said that they believed me, that they could not exchange the fan if it is indeed a bad fan, that I would be expected to take time off from work so I could be there for the ISF tech, that it would be a preplanned exercise in futility at best and a set up to make me wrong at worse (how many think that the ISF tech would conclude that it's within norm -- just out of habit?), and that I would be left with a $4K TV that I'm trying to improvise solutions for.

There is one great principle that the American economy was built on that seems to have been forgotten by companies and even some of us on the forum and it's this: the customer is always right! Not right 1 time and then we have to verify him or right when we feel it's okay to let him or her be right but right as often as it takes for him or her to be a happy customer. From John Wannamaker to Henry Ford and others -- the customer was king.

I don't know when it changed but I suspect it accelerated when Steve Jobs decided that the people don't know what they want until they're given it -- which is a really offensive way to look at humanity.

I refuse to settle for less until I've done all I can to achieve the best.

Maybe I was spoiled --

1 VT50 -- kicked back and enjoyed the TV for 7 months
1 Elite -- kicked back and enjoyed the TV for 4 years
1 Kuro 5080 -- enjoyed the TV for 2 years
1 Sony Wega -- enjoyed the TV 2 years

2 ZT60 -- countless hours trying to resolve pixel, banding, ARC, and fan issues -- haven't had a chance to enjoy the TV -- customer is not happy and MDC mandates validation from an ISF tech in order to be considered right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

What bothers me about your line of thinking is why you don't want them to come out to take a look at it. You are basically saying that you don't trust them to be honest and fair. If that's the case, why do you demand trust from them about a problem that could easily be a subjective interpretation of a noise. The real issue with this problem is that everyone's idea of "loud" is different. Some people have better hearing than others. Some people listen to their TV at louder volumes, etc., etc.. Throw in the fact that a real problem might exist, but only affect a select number of set's. I don't feel that it is unreasonable for them to want to come out and witness the issue first-hand. I believe that the noise you are experiencing is annoying to you. What is at question for the store, is whether or not it is out of spec. As far as the tech is concerned, maybe it's easier for them to send out one of their calibrators than an actual repair tech. Maybe this particular guy is the most experienced guy they have. There are plenty of possible and acceptable reasons. They have provided good service up to this point. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Please don't take this as negative. I just don't understand some of your reasoning on this issue.

Perception is reality. What is a subjective perception to you may be a reality to me. A stand up store wouldn't stoop to even arguing it might be a "subjective interpretation of a noise". They want full retail price? Then they do all they can to make a customer happy. Please read what I wrote above your quote. The customer is always right!

What bothers me about your line of thinking is that you originally said to exchange it and then you changed your tune. In keeping with the customer is always right theme see below that BB sent the reviewer 3 TV's without an ISF calibrator coming out to offer his diagnosis of a technical problem -

"This 64" F8500 plasma has a great design, picture quality, and brightness level. I have it mounted on the stand and it really is the best design compared to the competition. When the TV was delivered by the Geek Squad, they pointed out a rub mark about 4" long in the top center of the screen and a "ding" on the upper portion of the bezel. This obviously was not acceptable considering that this is Samsung's flagship model. Best Buy delivered another one a week later that had no cosmetic damage but there was a "flashing and ghosting" problem in the bottom 1/3 of the panel when the set was turned on and the channel was changed. This would last 2 or 3 minutes until the TV warmed up and then would go away. Needless to say, this was also unacceptable and this unit had to be returned. I still believed the picture, design, and brightness on this model was very good and was still worthy of one more try. The 3rd try is a keeper. Best Buy was great to work with during this experience."

Why would I be treated as a lesser citizen by the supposedly upscale MDC and why would I want to take time off from work to have someone diagnose what I've already diagnosed? Furthermore, as a person who has researched, bought and sold HT gear for 20 years I'd bet I know more than 90% of the Magnolia order takers. I had to show the WLA sales guy and other Magnolia sales guys AVS, HDJunkies, and other threads related to AV gear. I would've thought that as professionals they would've known about these sites and would be researching them so they would be informed and up to date so that they could be of maximum service to MDC clientele. I'm supposed to trust these guys to make a determination as to whether I'm telling the truth? Like I don't have a business to run and have nothing better to do than exchange TV's?

I asked them to send out a repair tech or someone familiar with sophisticated electronics and they offer to send an ISF calibrator who will diagnose the problem and relay that information to me (read them)? I asked if they would then fix it after receiving his diagnosis -- they said no, Panasonic would have to fix it but based on the ISF calibrators report they'd make a determination as to whether they'd send out another TV. I sent MDC audio recordings of the sound. I had other corroborate that they could hear the sound.

BB treated that reviewer better than your stand alone MDC store has treated me and with more respect. imo. Here's the link-

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/64%22+Class+(64%22+Diag.)+-+Plasma+-+1080p+-+600Hz+-+Smart+-+3D+-+HDTV/8244057.p?id=1218866280036&skuId=8244057&st=samsung f8500&cp=1&lp=2#tab=reviews
Edited by Glashub - 6/16/13 at 9:14pm
post #1026 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Madden View Post

Thanks for the advice. Honestly, the more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards just keeping the KURO and waiting to see what happens in the next year or two with OLED and 4K TVs. It's not like the KURO is a great albatross around my neck. For the past 5 years it's been the best TV on the planet and the argument could be made that it still holds that crown....at the very least it's right there with the 2013 Panasonic offerings. cool.gif
I sure hope they get OLED to work. Keep hearing they can not make a reliable set yet.
post #1027 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Thats great but do you own a 65" kuro that beats a VT60/ZT?

There's no such thing as a 65" KURO. I've got a 60" that is a great set and I don't know if it's worth the hassle going from it to a new Panny for only 5" of real estate. If we were talking about moving up to a 70" or bigger set it would be a no-brainer, but for only 5" I think I can be content with the KURO a while longer, save $4k and wait to see what comes out in the next year or two. Besides, it's not like I'm trying to get out from under an old DLP or RPTV. tongue.gif
post #1028 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Mines about 42db from 8 ft. away and about 47 behind the right fan. What drives me nuts is a high pitch that undulates or throbs for lack of better terms. Does yours do this? My TV will eventually be in a dedicated smaller room and my fear is that it would be much worse than it is in the living room.
The fans in mine sound exactly like th fan in the PS3 or a PC--a smooth drone, not high pitched at all. Once the TV is on I can't hear it. Tried to get my g/f to hear it tonight but she couldn't. I just hope it stays that way.
post #1029 of 11410
I dun get what all the fuss is about anymore on the noise when a fix has been posted and proven to work wonders. I guess you guys enjoy torturing yourselves instead of watching the set hah. Takes you maybe 30 min and $10 in materials with the instructions TWD posted earlier. In terms of replacing kuro, I think the zt60 is a real contender and the only valid one ever since, so if you need the larger size, I wouldn't hesitate. It's a joy to watch and who knows where the future of plasma lies after this year....I'm not holding my breath for oled....that's a long ways off.
post #1030 of 11410
**Off topic from fan noise** Is there a certain way to sit the tv on the stand? I've notice mine is crooked and leans toward the left...
post #1031 of 11410
Does anyone have an opinion on the banding issue? I have a visible band about 3" from the right side, visible on content in most light colored scenes, and most darker scenes. It manifests as a slightly lighter colored verticle band.

If I go into the ZT to check how many hours I've run it, does that void the warranty?

I have only a 14 day return policy with best buy. Should I exchange it? Will it get better? What should I do?

URGENT ADVICE NEEDED!
post #1032 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

Does anyone have an opinion on the banding issue? I have a visible band about 3" from the right side, visible on content in most light colored scenes, and most darker scenes. It manifests as a slightly lighter colored verticle band.

If I go into the ZT to check how many hours I've run it, does that void the warranty?

I have only a 14 day return policy with best buy. Should I exchange it? Will it get better? What should I do?

URGENT ADVICE NEEDED!
The one I noticed in a similar area when originally powering on is completely gone. I'm at somewhere around 225 hours now (this is approximate because I've mostly been using slides and I've been roughly counting the accumulating hours of usage).
post #1033 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Mines about 42db from 8 ft. away and about 47 behind the right fan. What drives me nuts is a high pitch that undulates or throbs for lack of better terms. Does yours do this? My TV will eventually be in a dedicated smaller room and my fear is that it would be much worse than it is in the living room.








It looks like somebody found the the problem with the fan noise.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1775475-panasonic-vt65-fan-noise.html
post #1034 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunofcp View Post

It looks like somebody found the the problem with the fan noise.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1775475-panasonic-vt65-fan-noise.html
This is old news

There is nothing wrong with these sets. Its the person who buys the set .,
post #1035 of 11410
"Wrong" is a relative term. This set has the loudest cooling mechanism I've ever heard in a TV. I need to get one of those nifty decibel meters and compare it to repete's values.
post #1036 of 11410
I just don't get Panasonic. The fan issue is/should be a minor fix. Even if only 10% think it's too loud. Then they should look into this and fix it. Having $4K sets returned because of loud fans shouldn't be allowed to happen by Panasonic, especially since this has nothing to do with PQ problems, which might require a more difficult fix. Cooling issues should not be the most talked about issue on your "Studio Master Panel". Also, I am getting the feeling that the current line has already been abandoned. The Panasonic insider is already talking about OLED and 4K sets for next year. No mention of what they might be able improve on with the current line, via firmware updates. Meanwhile the current line does have some issues that should be addressed. Pretty much all calibrators mention the instability of the software when it come to calibration, we know the fan issue is getting big and of course and a few other issues could be addressed, like maybe the brightness? All sets can be improved, but I get the feeling there will few or no updates to the current line.....especially looking at Panasonic's past track record of fixes.
post #1037 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

"Wrong" is a relative term. This set has the loudest cooling mechanism I've ever heard in a TV. I need to get one of those nifty decibel meters and compare it to repete's values.

Is there any particular reason the ZT pumps out so much heat... I mean i was under the impression with plasma the brighter or more white they put out the hotter they go which makes sense. What doesnt make a lot of sense is it struggles to output a lot of light (correctly).


Could it be that the fans are needed simply because they are trying to keep the TV itself as slim as possible - from a 'style' or 'fashionable' viewpoint. Hence there isn't a lot of room for the components etc etc to breathe. And therefore actually need the super fast and noisy fans ?
post #1038 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

The fans in mine sound exactly like th fan in the PS3 or a PC--a smooth drone, not high pitched at all. Once the TV is on I can't hear it. Tried to get my g/f to hear it tonight but she couldn't. I just hope it stays that way.

The numbers I gave originally were taken with an iphone app -- which I've learned is not that reliable. When I use my analog RS meter they come in at 63db from 8ft. away and 66-68db at the back of the TV. Even with meters it's "subject interpretation". smile.gif Also if I move the metes around there are upticks in areas where my ears pick up an intensifying of the pulsating whine.
post #1039 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

The numbers I gave originally were taken with an iphone app -- which I've learned is not that reliable. When I use my analog RS meter they come in at 63db from 8ft. away and 66-68db at the back of the TV. Even with meters it's "subject interpretation". smile.gif Also if I move the metes around there are upticks in areas where my ears pick up an intensifying of the pulsating whine.
Well, if both of our meters are at all accurate I think that settles the "every TV vs. sensitive consumer" question. In other words, it appears some fans are worse than others. And if that's the case then this seems to be less of an engineering/design issue than it is a problem with either bad fans or faulty assembly, though I think the fact that any of us can hear fans at all indicates the design leaves something to be desired.
post #1040 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

...I am pretty sure I could not get the $1000 off list again even from BB or any other stores- that window seems to have been closed by Panasonic or BB or both. Full MSRP now or near.

$1000 off MSRP seems aggressive even before tax, however I can assure you that you can get at least $700 from BB, more from your local ADs, and +$900 if you buy other things alongside your TV from BB.
post #1041 of 11410
Does anyone know the model # of the 3D glasses is that come with the P60ZT60?
post #1042 of 11410
I wanted to keep the TV. All I asked is that MDC send out a service tech -- someone who could replace the fan in-house or fix what's ailing the fan. I don't want to scotch tape paper cutouts to the back of my 4K brand new TV. That just seems wrong to me. Some would say well it's only 4K -- it's not like you bought a Porsche. But this TV is top of the line -- that's what matters - not the price. When I buy top of the line and we're asked to pay full retail on a premium price I don't want to settle for ugly home made white vent covers on a display I have standing alone in the living room.

I don't like returning anything. It's a waste -- and I expressed that to MDC -- I am sensitive to waste -- but I can't justify living with this noise for a few years particularly when the TV is moved to a small room or a bedroom. Better to take care of it now I think.

Magnolia knows who they're getting in bed with when they decided to be the exclusive retailer for the ZT -- they decided based on numbers that the reward would be greater than the risk. Panny knows the fans are an issue -- they too decided the reward was greater than the risk. I have to assume that -- there are a whole bunch of really smart people running both companies.
post #1043 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogger1 View Post

Does anyone know the model # of the 3D glasses is that come with the P60ZT60?

TY-ER3D5MA

I couldn't find them anywhere but eBay!! I don't know why Panasonic does not have them in their website.
post #1044 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogger1 View Post

Does anyone know the model # of the 3D glasses is that come with the P60ZT60?
They come with 2 sets of the battery powered TY-ER3D5MA unit. There are 3 people in my household so I used the BB Rewards Zone certificate from the TV to buy the USB rechargeable TY-ER3D4MU which does a better job of blocking light from the side.
post #1045 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post


Perception is reality. What is a subjective perception to you may be a reality to me. A stand up store wouldn't stoop to even arguing it might be a "subjective interpretation of a noise". They want full retail price? Then they do all they can to make a customer happy. Please read what I wrote above your quote. The customer is always right!

What bothers me about your line of thinking is that you originally said to exchange it and then you changed your tune. In keeping with the customer is always right theme see below that BB sent the reviewer 3 TV's without an ISF calibrator coming out to offer his diagnosis of a technical problem -

"This 64" F8500 plasma has a great design, picture quality, and brightness level. I have it mounted on the stand and it really is the best design compared to the competition. When the TV was delivered by the Geek Squad, they pointed out a rub mark about 4" long in the top center of the screen and a "ding" on the upper portion of the bezel. This obviously was not acceptable considering that this is Samsung's flagship model. Best Buy delivered another one a week later that had no cosmetic damage but there was a "flashing and ghosting" problem in the bottom 1/3 of the panel when the set was turned on and the channel was changed. This would last 2 or 3 minutes until the TV warmed up and then would go away. Needless to say, this was also unacceptable and this unit had to be returned. I still believed the picture, design, and brightness on this model was very good and was still worthy of one more try. The 3rd try is a keeper. Best Buy was great to work with during this experience."

Why would I be treated as a lesser citizen by the supposedly upscale MDC and why would I want to take time off from work to have someone diagnose what I've already diagnosed? Furthermore, as a person who has researched, bought and sold HT gear for 20 years I'd bet I know more than 90% of the Magnolia order takers. I had to show the WLA sales guy and other Magnolia sales guys AVS, HDJunkies, and other threads related to AV gear. I would've thought that as professionals they would've known about these sites and would be researching them so they would be informed and up to date so that they could be of maximum service to MDC clientele. I'm supposed to trust these guys to make a determination as to whether I'm telling the truth? Like I don't have a business to run and have nothing better to do than exchange TV's?

I asked them to send out a repair tech or someone familiar with sophisticated electronics and they offer to send an ISF calibrator who will diagnose the problem and relay that information to me (read them)? I asked if they would then fix it after receiving his diagnosis -- they said no, Panasonic would have to fix it but based on the ISF calibrators report they'd make a determination as to whether they'd send out another TV. I sent MDC audio recordings of the sound. I had other corroborate that they could hear the sound.

BB treated that reviewer better than your stand alone MDC store has treated me and with more respect. imo. Here's the link-

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/64%22+Class+(64%22+Diag.)+-+Plasma+-+1080p+-+600Hz+-+Smart+-+3D+-+HDTV/8244057.p?id=1218866280036&skuId=8244057&st=samsung f8500&cp=1&lp=2#tab=reviews

I still do think you should exchange it. Never changed my mind. It sounds as though the store wants to come out and look at it first though. My only contention is, why not let them come out and look at it? And more specifically, you were saying that you didn't trust them to make an impartial call. I simply asked why you expect them to trust you if you don't trust them. I do get that it is an inconvenience. Have you said that you don't have time to have them come out and you just want to do an exchange? If they say they can't do that, ask them if they would prefer a return?

Also, I was not saying the noise itself is subjective. The noise can be objectively measured. What is subjective is how much noise is necessary to annoy the owner. The store is worried that they will exchange a set that works perfectly fine, and will then be forced to resell it at a discount. I understand their methodology, but I don't completely agree with their execution. I think it is reasonable to send someone out to check out the TV, with a somewhat murky issue like this. That said, if the customer tells them they can't do that they should just set up an exchange.

I believe, based on your description, that your TV is performing out-of-spec.

As I said in PM though. Let me know if you continue to have issues.
post #1046 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Magnolia knows who they're getting in bed with when they decided to be the exclusive retailer for the ZT -- they decided based on numbers that the reward would be greater than the risk. Panny knows the fans are an issue -- they too decided the reward was greater than the risk. I have to assume that -- there are a whole bunch of really smart people running both companies.
It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. BB, MDC, etc. are just trying to deal with a lemon from a new product line in a way that makes business sense. I'm not siding with them, but having 20+ years in service-related work I strongly disagree with the assertion that the customer is always right. Sometimes perception is an issue and there is nothing wrong with the retailer wanting to verify the problem. Obviously, Panasonic should have done a better job of post-production QC on this product. As it is, the retailer that sold you the product should continue to supply units until you're satisfied or offer a full refund at either party's discretion.
post #1047 of 11410
So what gamma setting are people using? 2.4 or 2.2? What is the difference between the two, and if 2.2, why should I be using that?
post #1048 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

I think you have two reasonable options:

1) Ask for a return extension to further evaluate and consider a fix/exchange in the extension window.

2) Return for full refund, unless you got some great deal that would be had to recreate and just let this new production dust settle for a few weeks or even a month or so. Today you might just get the same issue again and possible the infamous fan noise as a bonus for your new set's exchange trouble. Or in the return cycle/loop nightmare like Glashub.

However, I was glad to get an extension, since I am pretty sure I could not get the $1000 off list again even from BB or any other stores- that window seems to have been closed by Panasonic or BB or both. Full MSRP now or near. If I had paid anything close to MSRP, I would just have retutned within the 15 day window and be done, since your can always buy it again at near MRSP again. Why take any unnecessary risk of having a bad set without some risk/reward payback?

Banding is a pretty serious issue and must worst than any fan noise. So unless you got a great deal, I would just return and wait. Buy later, 2014 or even, gulp, Samsung.

Just my thoughts...

You have my sincere gratitude for your help. I'm going to ask for an extension of the return window. I paid MSRP for the TV.

By the way, is there a fee to return the TV? I've heard about a $150 "uninstalling fee". How does it work, do you know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

The one I noticed in a similar area when originally powering on is completely gone. I'm at somewhere around 225 hours now (this is approximate because I've mostly been using slides and I've been roughly counting the accumulating hours of usage).

I hope my banding gets better! Is running screen wipe the same as slides? Can I leave screen wipe on for hours on end? Will it help?
post #1049 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

You have my sincere gratitude for your help. I'm going to ask for an extension of the return window. I paid MSRP for the TV.

By the way, is there a fee to return the TV? I've heard about a $150 "uninstalling fee". How does it work, do you know?
I hope my banding gets better! Is running screen wipe the same as slides? Can I leave screen wipe on for hours on end? Will it help?

There should not be any fee's for returning your TV. If Best Buy hangs your TV, they will take it down for free. That said, if you hung it, you will have to take it down before they arrive. If you want them to take it down they may charge a fee.
post #1050 of 11410
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. BB, MDC, etc. are just trying to deal with a lemon from a new product line in a way that makes business sense. I'm not siding with them, but having 20+ years in service-related work I strongly disagree with the assertion that the customer is always right. Sometimes perception is an issue and there is nothing wrong with the retailer wanting to verify the problem. Obviously, Panasonic should have done a better job of post-production QC on this product. As it is, the retailer that sold you the product should continue to supply units until you're satisfied or offer a full refund at either party's discretion.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying smart people made decisions based on historical data, predictive forecasting and probable percentages of declines and returns -- and they decided they would still make money. I disagree with you about the customer. Amazon and Zappos smoke their competition because to them the customer is king. Zappos was a client. I know 1st hand. They were acquired by Amazon. One of the principles the American economy was built on was that the customer is always right by the letter and by the spirit of the term. I have clients who are wrong but to me they're always right -- in their issues, concerns and fears and in their hopes that my company will make their lives easier. That's why my company has a client retention rate of 95%. I may have made more money trying to bend them to my will or by questioning them but it's cheaper and more profitable to keep a customer happy then it is to keep looking for new ones.
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