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Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

^^^^

Don't be mad but I can't resist - "I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it-- because I keep returning everything." smile.gif
Could be true
post #122 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Isn't the PRO-150FD the 8th generation model? The ZT should be better in all categories, blacks included. The ZT should match (or come pretty close) to the PRO-151FD (9th and final gen), unless it received the D-Nice tweak. wink.gif

Ya and this has been in back of my head - there have been people saying "not a kuro killer" - well, actually it IS for nearly all the Kuros in the field except the pinnacle of what they achieved, and as per the UK shootout last weekend, for certain "special" units that had some extra juice put in on the final run in the factory (according to legend)... some w/ voltage mods and other stuff will be better than ZT too...

But then the kuro @ CNET gets beaten by the ZT, and the ones that HDTVTest had access to prior to the shootout - so isn't the ZT a Kuro killer for like, 95% of the kuro line?

If you have to have one with magic parts that were allegedly slipped into a mythic final run, or one w/ voltage mod and special tweaks - shouldn't we consider the Kuro (for all intents and purposes) dethroned? Especially when you consider the other benefits 5 years have allowed the ZT to capture on motion+colour...
post #123 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

^^^^

Don't be mad but I can't resist - "I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it-- because I keep returning everything." smile.gif
or I could just write "Best Buy blows" lol, but thought my current quote was a little more gentle.... Haha
Edited by dasanii19 - 5/29/13 at 8:13am
post #124 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by praktik View Post

Ya and this has been in back of my head - there have been people saying "not a kuro killer" - well, actually it IS for nearly all the Kuros in the field except the pinnacle of what they achieved, and as per the UK shootout last weekend, for certain "special" units that had some extra juice put in on the final run in the factory (according to legend)... some w/ voltage mods and other stuff will be better than ZT too...

But then the kuro @ CNET gets beaten by the ZT, and the ones that HDTVTest had access to prior to the shootout - so isn't the ZT a Kuro killer for like, 95% of the kuro line?

If you have to have one with magic parts that were allegedly slipped into a mythic final run, or one w/ voltage mod and special tweaks - shouldn't we consider the Kuro (for all intents and purposes) dethroned? Especially when you consider the other benefits 5 years have allowed the ZT to capture on motion+colour...


The VT/ZT don't seem to have the overall contrast ratio. The Pnasonics have even or close enough black levels to the 111 FD/151 FD, but does not seem to have the brightness of the Kuro's. Now the ZT seems to have a better filter and of course more features. But I would not say a Kuro Killer at all. At best it's a wash. Even as someone looking to sell his Kuro for a ZT that is the way I see it.
post #125 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

or I could just write "Best Buy blows" lol, but thought my current quote was a little more gentle.... Haha

Thanks for your sense of humor.
post #126 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnswer_03 View Post


What's the MSRP of the ZT60? I checked both panasonic.ca and futureshop.ca and neither web site has the ZT60 listed yet.

Seems to be 4299/4999$ (60/65 in), as they're my local store's prices and they usually go MSRP (Quebec city).
post #127 of 11501
So as of yesterday at about 7pm pst I had 100hrs on my set. Watched some regular TV and a little later in the night busted out chormapure and controlcal.

I started late so I didn't do a full calibration I just adjusted the grayscale to start with an initial pass will do grayscale again today and a CMS pass. It's crazy how close the grayscale measures out of the box. It it has some errors but generally in Professional 1 they were all hovering just a little under or over 3. so not bad at all. After initial pass I decided to use 10% windows with Mid panel brightness. Everything came out great. I would say perfect but I have a pretty high error at 10% stimuli which I know what caused it so going to fix it today. everything else was dead on 20 to 100 with dE at about 0.3-0.7. Seems it has some red on the low end mainly due to my error.

Afterwards I watched some content. It's pretty impressive and the shadow detail was excellent.

I do have to say if you are going t o calibrate one of these hell even a VT get ControlCal it makes a world of difference. It would take 2-3x longer if you had to use teh on screen menus because you have to make teh change, let it stabilize, measure, rinse repeat. with control cal it is just a tap of my arrow key and the change is done. especially going through the W/B settings, same with gamma and CMS

Once I dial it in I'll post some pics of my first full pass and the settings.
post #128 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by praktik View Post

Ya and this has been in back of my head - there have been people saying "not a kuro killer" - well, actually it IS for nearly all the Kuros in the field except the pinnacle of what they achieved, and as per the UK shootout last weekend, for certain "special" units that had some extra juice put in on the final run in the factory (according to legend)... some w/ voltage mods and other stuff will be better than ZT too...

But then the kuro @ CNET gets beaten by the ZT, and the ones that HDTVTest had access to prior to the shootout - so isn't the ZT a Kuro killer for like, 95% of the kuro line?

If you have to have one with magic parts that were allegedly slipped into a mythic final run, or one w/ voltage mod and special tweaks - shouldn't we consider the Kuro (for all intents and purposes) dethroned? Especially when you consider the other benefits 5 years have allowed the ZT to capture on motion+colour...
Well, with D-Nice's tweak (not achieved through voltage tweaking but through some proprietary software he received directly from a Kuro engineer), I believe he can make *all* the 9G models go deeper than the ZT (he achieved 0.0005 fL with a plane Jane Elite 141FD, for instance), but this is prohibitive and requires every owner to fork over at least $400 and secure a date for calibration (might be difficult if you don't live near the metropolises he frequently visits). Also, all the 500M/101FD measure darker than the ZT without any tweaks (factory BL of 0.0005 fL), so we still can't say there's a match when it comes to the final produced panels. The upside to that is, those panels with better factory black levels are only 50" in size. The factory levels of the remainder of the panels (and every 60-incher) should be about equal to the ZT.
post #129 of 11501
All corrections to my post taken, I also have no real care about who "wins", just seemed to me that it was a specialized set of Kuros that remained un-dethroned... (if that is even a word - hehe)

I appreciate the responses!

(still waiting over here - though happy to hear an independent in Winnipeg getting some sets, no exclusivity up here! I am thinking this weekend is a longshot, but plausible, hopefully will get in time for season closer to Game of Thrones!)
post #130 of 11501
Congrats and sorry if that was TMI. redface.gif This achievement is actually a prerequisite for my upgrade, lol.
post #131 of 11501
Thread Starter 
Vinnie always so thorough and informative


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
post #132 of 11501
Ordered my ZT last week and got a call today that it'll be delivered tomorrow -- here in SoCal -- a hotbed for cars, fake boobs, and home theaters. I'm feeling like maybe the ZT isn't flying off the shelves -- cause certainly in a place like SoCal one would think that there would be a big back log of pre-orders, right?
post #133 of 11501
Thread Starter 
So does anybody have this tv hooked up thru a non 3d receiver? Mine is and at least on my cable box (xg1 from Comcast) when I reboot the box the tv detects a 3d signal even tho I am not on a 3d channel and once more, my receiver doesn't do 3d pass through


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post #134 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by praktik View Post

All corrections to my post taken, I also have no real care about who "wins", just seemed to me that it was a specialized set of Kuros that remained un-dethroned... (if that is even a word - hehe)

I appreciate the responses!

(still waiting over here - though happy to hear an independent in Winnipeg getting some sets, no exclusivity up here! I am thinking this weekend is a longshot, but plausible, hopefully will get in time for season closer to Game of Thrones!)

Believe me I would be the first to like a true dethroning or of the Kuro, that way I wouldn't feel so apprehensive about replacing it. Now I see it as more of a swap as opposed to getting something a lot better.
post #135 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post

So as of yesterday at about 7pm pst I had 100hrs on my set. Watched some regular TV and a little later in the night busted out chormapure and controlcal.

I started late so I didn't do a full calibration I just adjusted the grayscale to start with an initial pass will do grayscale again today and a CMS pass. It's crazy how close the grayscale measures out of the box. It it has some errors but generally in Professional 1 they were all hovering just a little under or over 3. so not bad at all. After initial pass I decided to use 10% windows with Mid panel brightness. Everything came out great. I would say perfect but I have a pretty high error at 10% stimuli which I know what caused it so going to fix it today. everything else was dead on 20 to 100 with dE at about 0.3-0.7. Seems it has some red on the low end mainly due to my error.

Afterwards I watched some content. It's pretty impressive and the shadow detail was excellent.

I do have to say if you are going t o calibrate one of these hell even a VT get ControlCal it makes a world of difference. It would take 2-3x longer if you had to use teh on screen menus because you have to make teh change, let it stabilize, measure, rinse repeat. with control cal it is just a tap of my arrow key and the change is done. especially going through the W/B settings, same with gamma and CMS

Once I dial it in I'll post some pics of my first full pass and the settings.

Can you please do before and after pics? That would be awesome for n00bs like me. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Ordered my ZT last week and got a call today that it'll be delivered tomorrow -- here in SoCal -- a hotbed for cars, fake boobs, and home theaters. I'm feeling like maybe the ZT isn't flying off the shelves -- cause certainly in a place like SoCal one would think that there would be a big back log of pre-orders, right?

I guess that's a good thing for people like me holding back for prices to come down? I hope so...
post #136 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Ordered my ZT last week and got a call today that it'll be delivered tomorrow -- here in SoCal -- a hotbed for cars, fake boobs, and home theaters. I'm feeling like maybe the ZT isn't flying off the shelves -- cause certainly in a place like SoCal one would think that there would be a big back log of pre-orders, right?

I kind of doubt the ZT's will be hot sellers, beyond the hardcore like us. There will be a few that buy it because CNET says it the best set, but beyond that I don't think there will be a huge market for a $3.5K to $4K set. Another problem is that the ST60 is so good I am sure it will siphon off sales form the VT and ZT. The Panasonic insider says that they are disappointed with the VT sales so far. I don't see a more expensive set selling too much better.
post #137 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I kind of doubt the ZT's will be hot sellers, beyond the hardcore like us. There will be a few that buy it because CNET says it the best set, but beyond that I don't think there will be a huge market for a $3.5K to $4K set. Another problem is that the ST60 is so good I am sure it will siphon off sales form the VT and ZT. The Panasonic insider says that they are disappointed with the VT sales so far. I don't see a more expensive set selling too much better.

I don't understand Panasonics strategy really need more differentiation between model lines imo, they should have kept the ST as it was last year still a solid set then the VT would get more interest
post #138 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I kind of doubt the ZT's will be hot sellers, beyond the hardcore like us. There will be a few that buy it because CNET says it the best set, but beyond that I don't think there will be a huge market for a $3.5K to $4K set. Another problem is that the ST60 is so good I am sure it will siphon off sales form the VT and ZT. The Panasonic insider says that they are disappointed with the VT sales so far. I don't see a more expensive set selling too much better.

Not surprised and kind of expected this. Despite all of the glowing reports about the economy it'll never be 2005 again where you have huge numbers of people floating in easy credit and home equity.
post #139 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Believe me I would be the first to like a true dethroning or of the Kuro, that way I wouldn't feel so apprehensive about replacing it. Now I see it as more of a swap as opposed to getting something a lot better.

I think you guys have been steeped in this way longer, as something of a poor-man's audiophile (buying headphones is cheaper than full out amps/speakers) and dabbling in audio production - there's always the question of the lowest Hz you can hear in a given track.

Now some speakers will go as low as 20, some stop at 40 - and while you can certainly hear the difference if well-trained, it won't really make THAT huge a difference to miss the frequencies below 20hz. There's this curve of diminishing returns where the next Hz lower really doesn't change the way we hear things.

Are the best Kuros maybe down in that same space when it comes to black level?

I am having trouble finding where I saw this, but I remember reading recently (some article on the recent shootouts) that while measurements showed the Kuros with a measurement win, that the perception of black was still deeper on the panny's in some cases...

Is there a point where maybe the measurement of black level could bring a different result than the perception of black level? Such that a TV that wins on measurement could lose on perception because of the way different display technologies present the image? (to go back to sound analogy, a woofer may be able to hit a lower absolute Hz level, but due to construction materials/audio processing, a different subwoofer that can't hit as low a Hz value could be heard as having "better bottom end")

I read that and was confused and was curious if this is a bit of videophile gobbledy gook or maybe a more widely understood potential outcome when comparing measurement w/ perception...
post #140 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I don't understand Panasonics strategy really need more differentiation between model lines imo, they should have kept the ST as it was last year still a solid set then the VT would get more interest

Agreed, I thought it was really puzzling this year.
post #141 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by praktik View Post

I think you guys have been steeped in this way longer, as something of a poor-man's audiophile (buying headphones is cheaper than full out amps/speakers) and dabbling in audio production - there's always the question of the lowest Hz you can hear in a given track.

Now some speakers will go as low as 20, some stop at 40 - and while you can certainly hear the difference if well-trained, it won't really make THAT huge a difference to miss the frequencies below 20hz. There's this curve of diminishing returns where the next Hz lower really doesn't change the way we hear things.

Are the best Kuros maybe down in that same space when it comes to black level?

I am having trouble finding where I saw this, but I remember reading recently (some article on the recent shootouts) that while measurements showed the Kuros with a measurement win, that the perception of black was still deeper on the panny's in some cases...

Is there a point where maybe the measurement of black level could bring a different result than the perception of black level? Such that a TV that wins on measurement could lose on perception because of the way different display technologies present the image? (to go back to sound analogy, a woofer may be able to hit a lower absolute Hz level, but due to construction materials/audio processing, a different subwoofer that can't hit as low a Hz value could be heard as having "better bottom end")

I read that and was confused and was curious if this is a bit of videophile gobbledy gook or maybe a more widely understood potential outcome when comparing measurement w/ perception...
I think on Friday night at the shootout, the 500M's brightness was set a smidgen too high possibly accounting for such perceptions to some degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaomizzle 
Vinnie always so thorough and informative
Not worthy. wink.gif I try, but I'm still learning and there's so much I don't know. I've honed in on these Kuro benchmarks, though. biggrin.gif
post #142 of 11501
Thread Starter 
Considering kuro benchmarks accounted for roughly 98% of all posts on AVS in the display section for the last 3 months im not surprised. (I dont work for AVS and dont quote me on the accuracy of 98% of all posts) :-D

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
post #143 of 11501
The blacks on this TV are 100.00 percent black. I cannot imagine the human eye noticing anything blacker. The first comment my friend made when he looked at it who knows nothing about televisions said, "my God those blacks are gorgeous!"

The lack of reflections also make this television TRULY outstanding as well. I cannot imagine anyone not being extraordinarily happy with it that appreciates a good picture unless you only like your eyeballs melted my LCD.
post #144 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpetematt View Post

The blacks on this TV are 100.00 percent black. I cannot imagine the human eye noticing anything blacker. The first comment my friend made when he looked at it who knows nothing about televisions said, "my God those blacks are gorgeous!"

The lack of reflections also make this television TRULY outstanding as well. I cannot imagine anyone not being extraordinarily happy with it that appreciates a good picture unless you only like your eyeballs melted my LCD.

That's awesome, you new owners should post some pics.biggrin.gif
post #145 of 11501
To the new owners:
How many hours does your ZT60 have on it now?
Mine has about 60 hours right now as I post. Everyone says 100 hrs
To break it in. How much better will it get?
And a full break before you calibrate is 300 hours
correct!?
Anybody have a ZT series plasma fully broken in?
post #146 of 11501
Thread Starter 
Im at about 20 hours

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post #147 of 11501
I'm almost at 90 hours. Here is a photo of a couple of Rays fans on the TV.
post #148 of 11501
Thread Starter 
yme6yhy5.jpg

Black bars or no black bars?

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post #149 of 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

yme6yhy5.jpg

Black bars or no black bars?

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Keep the pictures coming
post #150 of 11501
Thread Starter 
My phone doesn't do it justice tho!


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