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Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 93

post #2761 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

I am a fan of plasma technology because it offers the best picture quality, but we can all see here why it's a doomed technology. A consumer shouldn't have to break in a TV in order for it to perform correctly. (We shouldn't have to pay $500 for it to be calibrated to known industry standards either, but that's another story.) I realize that dissatisfied customers are FAR more likely to seek a venue on which to complain and that most AVR members are going to be more critical of a TV's performance than the general public, so what we see here isn't necessarily a fair sample rate, but no one can deny that plasma technology is temperamental. LED has its own issues but, again, that's another story.

A buddy of mine asked me the other day what TV he should get. He's pretty well off so price really isn't an issue. I was about to say the ZT60 but stopped because I couldn't in good conscience recommend a plasma TV. If you can't recommend a TV without issuing a bunch of disclaimers then perhaps plasma technology should be doomed. I say this as a satisfied ZT owner, but even after owning plasmas for years its impossible to watch TV, play games, etc. without the nagging concern of IR & pixel wear lingering in the back of my mind.
Even more unfortunately, you have to extend that to watching movies because of those pesky widescreen aspect ratios...
post #2762 of 11507
You should give your set as many hours as you can before watching anything longer than two to three hours straight. Bright logos such as the ID channel logo are the worst, avoid watching them for too many hours until you put plenty of hours on your set.
post #2763 of 11507
Define "plenty." wink.gif
post #2764 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

I am a fan of plasma technology because it offers the best picture quality, but we can all see here why it's a doomed technology. A consumer shouldn't have to break in a TV in order for it to perform correctly. (We shouldn't have to pay $500 for it to be calibrated to known industry standards either, but that's another story.) I realize that dissatisfied customers are FAR more likely to seek a venue on which to complain and that most AVR members are going to be more critical of a TV's performance than the general public, so what we see here isn't necessarily a fair sample rate, but no one can deny that plasma technology is temperamental. LED has its own issues but, again, that's another story.

A buddy of mine asked me the other day what TV he should get. He's pretty well off so price really isn't an issue. I was about to say the ZT60 but stopped because I couldn't in good conscience recommend a plasma TV. If you can't recommend a TV without issuing a bunch of disclaimers then perhaps plasma technology should be doomed. I say this as a satisfied ZT owner, but even after owning plasmas for years its impossible to watch TV, play games, etc. without the nagging concern of IR & pixel wear lingering in the back of my mind.

While some of the things you mentioned are true, you have to remember that not everybody breaks in their tv and has them professionally calibrated. While most member here are Videophiles/Audiophiles look into getting the best out of their equipment, therefore go through the trouble of doing all these steps to get the best picture quality. I for one never ran slides, Or have gotten my panel calibrated, although i would love to, I just watched TV from day one, I watched everything, Blurays with black bars, HD channels with logos, used my HTPC, and gamed on my PS3 all on my first week. I just set it to cinema/Thx or used custom settings and never had a problem. I am extremely happy with my Plasma panel, I don't know, sometimes I think I got really lucky with mine because I have never had problems with IR, even if I tried. Now while some people do all the things they should do to take care of their tv's at first, they still encounter problems and that is unfortunate.

Only a certain percentage of owners that own plasmas are on AVS Forums, the rest are happy with the settings that it comes with tv's. They don't even know what a calibration is. So yeah if you are a member here you are aware of all these concerns but most people out there are happy with what they have.
post #2765 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Define "plenty." wink.gif

I would say 150-200 hours, obviously the more the better. My second ZT60 was better at IR because i relaxed on the channels with bright logos. My first ZT was had bad IR of an ID logo. After 24hrs straight of wiping it still had a slightly visible logo.
post #2766 of 11507
deleted
Edited by changboy - 12/29/13 at 8:26pm
post #2767 of 11507
I am starting to think there ARE different ZTs out there. Seems like some are pretty sensitive to IR. I am one of the lucky ones then. I have not noticed any IR. and yes, I look for it too, in fact everyday.

I did however, purchase the 5-Yr BB warranty.
post #2768 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

While some of the things you mentioned are true, you have to remember that not everybody breaks in their tv and has them professionally calibrated. While most member here are Videophiles/Audiophiles look into getting the best out of their equipment, therefore go through the trouble of doing all these steps to get the best picture quality. I for one never ran slides, Or have gotten my panel calibrated, although i would love to, I just watched TV from day one, I watched everything, Blurays with black bars, HD channels with logos, used my HTPC, and gamed on my PS3 all on my first week. I just set it to cinema/Thx or used custom settings and never had a problem. I am extremely happy with my Plasma panel, I don't know, sometimes I think I got really lucky with mine because I have never had problems with IR, even if I tried. Now while some people do all the things they should do to take care of their tv's at first, they still encounter problems and that is unfortunate.
I didn't break in my last plasma. So far with the ZT I've run mixed content--4:3, 2.35:1, video games, stations with fixed logos and, yes, slides. In both instances I've experienced IR. (I know slides aren't meant to prevent IR.) I'm not really that concerned with it when I do, as long as the IR doesn't transition to BI, but it can be annoying all the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Only a certain percentage of owners that own plasmas are on AVS Forums, the rest are happy with the settings that it comes with tv's. They don't even know what a calibration is. So yeah if you are a member here you are aware of all these concerns but most people out there are happy with what they have.
I addressed this in my last post but we don't really know if or to what degree people out there are happy with their sets. My point is that I know the ZT gets IR, so I can't really recommend it to someone who isn't a TV geek like I am because of the potential for problems. And any technology that requires that a set of rules be followed to avoid problems it shouldn't have to begin with is and probably should be doomed. Again, IR doesn't really bother me but I do think a set that has persistent IR problems is not acceptable.
post #2769 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by changboy View Post

After thinking about people watching chanel tv i find a way for u to not have ir ! hehehe so while watching ur chanel u can change the format full to large or something like this and like that will hide ur chanel logo from the screen, hahaha its better then nothing smile.gif

Why haven't any one invented a device to address IR issues? It is simple. Install a device right before you feed the HDMI to your TV (lets say between AVR and TV). This device can detect the static portions of your feed, and:

Dims the logo
blends the logo with background color
etc..

Even better, make that a feature of AVR, or TV itself!
post #2770 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

A buddy of mine asked me the other day what TV he should get. He's pretty well off so price really isn't an issue. I was about to say the ZT60 but stopped because I couldn't in good conscience recommend a plasma TV. If you can't recommend a TV without issuing a bunch of disclaimers then perhaps plasma technology should be doomed. I say this as a satisfied ZT owner, but even after owning plasmas for years its impossible to watch TV, play games, etc. without the nagging concern of IR & pixel wear lingering in the back of my mind.

I am the office TV guy and people ask me for recommendations all the time. This is why I would never recommend plasma to an average TV buyer. They are dimmer and require more care than LED sets. I have only recommended Plasma once when I advised him to get a Kuro. Luckily he is a semi enthusiast, but for average folk LED is good enough. People have to realize plasma's, including these premium plasmas, just because they are the tops in PQ, are not for everyone.
post #2771 of 11507
Well, I took your guys advice and got the VT60 instead.

I just purchased the 55" version of this VT60 along with the Klipsch SB1 Soundbar with Woofer, a TV stand and a Panasonic 230PK BluRay player. Got everything at Best Buy. They price matched Abes of Maine so I got the TV for $1705 and got free shipping. All told, with a 4 year service plan, I got everything for $2996.

TV will be delivered on Tuesday the 3rd.
post #2772 of 11507
deleted
Edited by changboy - 12/29/13 at 8:27pm
post #2773 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I am the office TV guy and people ask me for recommendations all the time. This is why I would never recommend plasma to an average TV buyer. They are dimmer and require more care than LED sets. I have only recommended Plasma once when I advised him to get a Kuro. Luckily he is a semi enthusiast, but for average folk LED is good enough. People have to realize plasma's, including these premium plasmas, just because they are the tops in PQ, are not for everyone.
^^^ I can't help but tell everyone plasma, cheaper in most cases and better overall........
post #2774 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ I can't help but tell everyone plasma, cheaper in most cases and better overall........
With a name like that you can't very well be recommending LED!biggrin.gif
post #2775 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrSlydr View Post

Well, I took your guys advice and got the VT60 instead.

I just purchased the 55" version of this VT60 along with the Klipsch SB1 Soundbar with Woofer, a TV stand and a Panasonic 230PK BluRay player. Got everything at Best Buy. They price matched Abes of Maine so I got the TV for $1705 and got free shipping. All told, with a 4 year service plan, I got everything for $2996.

TV will be delivered on Tuesday the 3rd.

Congrats! You're gonna love it
post #2776 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ I can't help but tell everyone plasma, cheaper in most cases and better overall........


At some point in the future, you may just have to call yourself Cleveland TV......Formerly Cleveland Plasma.biggrin.gif
post #2777 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I am the office TV guy and people ask me for recommendations all the time. This is why I would never recommend plasma to an average TV buyer. They are dimmer and require more care than LED sets. I have only recommended Plasma once when I advised him to get a Kuro. Luckily he is a semi enthusiast, but for average folk LED is good enough. People have to realize plasma's, including these premium plasmas, just because they are the tops in PQ, are not for everyone.
I've done something similar in our extended family. They all have LCD except one, and he doesn't realize what he has.

With the world moving to TV in your pocket, and to where immersion only means you fell into the deep end of the pool, there will never be a broad market for quality. Marketing determines technology, not the other way around. For instance you've been recommending LED, when if fact what your friends have been buying is LCD with a LED back light. That's marketing and edge lit to boot. eek.gif
post #2778 of 11507
I feel Plasma is far superior to any current technology. There are few caveats, little burden, and I'd be willing to bet that anyone with a good eye can see the difference (which is not minimal).
post #2779 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeen View Post

I feel Plasma is far superior to any current technology. There are few caveats, little burden, and I'd be willing to bet that anyone with a good eye can see the difference (which is not minimal).

That's a tough call since OLED is in the game now. I agree against any LCD though.
post #2780 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ I can't help but tell everyone plasma, cheaper in most cases and better overall........

Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

With a name like that you can't very well be recommending LED!biggrin.gif

LOL! Well he actually can keep the name because the best LED TV on the market is the plasma F8500!!

Needless to say, the F8500 has made its way back on my radar for no other reason than it may very well turn out to be the lesser of two evils. We shall see...

Anyway Repete, I've enjoyed reading your's and other member's recent, pragmatic posts re: IR on the 2013 models, specifically the ZT. Thanks.
post #2781 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx74ray View Post

I am starting to think there ARE different ZTs out there. Seems like some are pretty sensitive to IR. I am one of the lucky ones then. I have not noticed any IR. and yes, I look for it too, in fact everyday.

I did however, purchase the 5-Yr BB warranty.

I was actually wondering if there is a greater propensity of IR on the 65" ZT's than the 60". That also seemed to be the trend at one point regarding the fan noise reports too. Hmmm...
post #2782 of 11507
Does the love of Plasma over LCD make Plasma the clear preference here on the plasma forum even vs. the new 4K LCD Sony ($5,500/65" and dropping)? I read up on the cons related to 4K but did a quick BD Jurassic Park comparison and was impressed with the detail shown in 4K vs 1080P Plasma (VT). Based on limited viewing I'm not 100% convinced I like the plasma more than the 4K Sony. I was very impressed with true 4K and am a bit concerned about dropping ZT money for something I may strongly want to upgrade in 2 years. I'm more open to a $2k budget while the 4K technology improves in price and performance.

I'm also not thrilled to think you have to worry about IR from TV (news and stock ticker bars, TV logos, movie black bars, etc. If I got the expensive Best Buy warrant could I swap it out a year later if it gets IR?

I"m not a Plasma or LCD person. I am currently and have been for over a decade a CRT RPTV owner/viewer, but I would like to get wow factor for awhile having waiting so long. I have a bat cave w/7.2 sound and have been considering a few 65" options: Costco Panny Plasma $1299 to buy time for 4K if it has a wow factor, Samsung 8500 Plasma which could be redeployed into a normally light family room, VT or ZT although the ZT seems a notable premium., and Sony 4K at $5k w/o ears although that technology will get better and cheaper and still is too much for me to justify now. I have been impressed with the ZT.(blacks, less glare, pleasing picture)
post #2783 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

I was actually wondering if there is a greater propensity of IR on the 65" ZT's than the 60". That also seemed to be the trend at one point regarding the fan noise reports too. Hmmm...
Impossible to say realistically.
post #2784 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoots View Post

Does the love of Plasma over LCD make Plasma the clear preference here on the plasma forum even vs. the new 4K LCD Sony ($5,500/65" and dropping)? I read up on the cons related to 4K but did a quick BD Jurassic Park comparison and was impressed with the detail shown in 4K vs 1080P Plasma (VT). Based on limited viewing I'm not 100% convinced I like the plasma more than the 4K Sony. I was very impressed with true 4K and am a bit concerned about dropping ZT money for something I may strongly want to upgrade in 2 years. I'm more open to a $2k budget while the 4K technology improves in price and performance.

I'm also not thrilled to think you have to worry about IR from TV (news and stock ticker bars, TV logos, movie black bars, etc. If I got the expensive Best Buy warrant could I swap it out a year later if it gets IR?

I"m not a Plasma or LCD person. I am currently and have been for over a decade a CRT RPTV owner/viewer, but I would like to get wow factor for awhile having waiting so long. I have a bat cave w/7.2 sound and have been considering a few 65" options: Costco Panny Plasma $1299 to buy time for 4K if it has a wow factor, Samsung 8500 Plasma which could be redeployed into a normally light family room, VT or ZT although the ZT seems a notable premium., and Sony 4K at $5k w/o ears although that technology will get better and cheaper and still is too much for me to justify now. I have been impressed with the ZT.(blacks, less glare, pleasing picture)

There are many reasons 4k televisions are not a good choice currently...

1) Lack of true 4k content
2) Upscaling of HD content is grainy and will not produce much better (if any) upgrade over HD.
3) There is no current connectivity to achieve 4k quality in both picture and color- HDMI can't handle the data. This means it will appear choppy and the color palette will suffer as well.

Until HDMI connectivity upgrades occur and more 4k content appear (simultaneously) - it is subpar compared to Plasma.
post #2785 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Needless to say, the F8500 has made its way back on my radar for no other reason than it may very well turn out to be the lesser of two evils. We shall see...

Anyway Repete, I've enjoyed reading your's and other member's recent, pragmatic posts re: IR on the 2013 models, specifically the ZT. Thanks.
No problem, but I wasn't referring specofically to the ZT. All plasmas suffer from the same issues to varying degrees. And the F8500 has it's own set of problems. Just as with plasma technology, it works well for some people.
post #2786 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

No problem, but I wasn't referring specofically to the ZT. All plasmas suffer from the same issues to varying degrees. And the F8500 has it's own set of problems. Just as with plasma technology, it works well for some people.
Among the f8500s own set of problems is IR and fan noise. Anyone who reads the threads enough to claim that the 8500 is clearly the best tv on the market would surely know that.
post #2787 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Among the f8500s own set of problems is IR and fan noise.

F8500 fan noise?

I'm sitting in front of mine right now, television muted. I have no idea what you're talking about. Buzz? Sure. Fan? No.
post #2788 of 11507
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

F8500 fan noise?

I'm sitting in front of mine right now, television muted. I have no idea what you're talking about. Buzz? Sure. Fan? No.
You may be right. Does the 8500 have fans?
post #2789 of 11507
deleted
Edited by changboy - 12/29/13 at 8:27pm
post #2790 of 11507
I have not had any IR issues with my ZT60. Am I lucky or is the IR issue overstated?
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