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High Fidelity Pure Audio - Page 2

post #31 of 176
In this May 24, 2013, DVD-and-beyond com interview (link), Olivier Robert-Murphy, Global Head of New Business at Universal Music Group, talks about the state of music consumption and the introduction of High Fidelity Pure Audio.

Some interesting music industry background and details about this new use for the already existing Blu-ray format, plus a few insights into (e.g) how the name High Fidelity Pure Audio was chosen, but it's worth remembering that this is first and foremost a PR piece...!? cool.gif
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Edited by SoundChex - 8/12/13 at 11:44am
post #32 of 176
Two more upcoming releases.

Amy Winehouse- Back to Black
Supertramp- Crime of the Century smile.gif
post #33 of 176
Any more info on US release dates?
post #34 of 176
From what I have read over at the Steve Hoffman forum not many seem to be singing the praises of these Blu-Ray audio discs. I haven't really kept up with this thread over at SH. But there seems to be a question of the mastering of these Blu-Ray titles. The Supertramp Crime of the Century Blu-Ray looks interesting. But I'll only order it after I read some positive reviews.

Bill
post #35 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

From what I have read over at the Steve Hoffman forum not many seem to be singing the praises of these Blu-Ray audio discs. I haven't really kept up with this thread over at SH. But there seems to be a question of the mastering of these Blu-Ray titles. The Supertramp Crime of the Century Blu-Ray looks interesting. But I'll only order it after I read some positive reviews.

Bill


The reviews are all over the place. Some love them while some hate them. What else is new? OTOH, COTC is a great sounding album to begin with so I'll probably grab that before BIA. Every time BIA gets re-released it sounds more dreadful.
post #36 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

What's the advantage(s), besides marketing, over 24/96 PCM which we've had for quite some time?

To make money for the studios, it's not even multichannel what a waste of money!
post #37 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

From what I have read over at the Steve Hoffman forum not many seem to be singing the praises of these Blu-Ray audio discs. I haven't really kept up with this thread over at SH. But there seems to be a question of the mastering of these Blu-Ray titles. The Supertramp Crime of the Century Blu-Ray looks interesting. But I'll only order it after I read some positive reviews. Bill

I bought it to try and it does sound very good, unfortunately only stereo! Still it mad my 800 Diamond sing smile.gif
post #38 of 176
Listing of the approx 100 HFPA BD releases Universal Music Canada has scheduled for September 24, 2013 (link) . . . which also happens to be the Tuesday immediately preceding the start of CEDIA 2013 in Denver on September 25! biggrin.gif
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post #39 of 176
Are these multiregion or just EU?

Scroll down, look for the "High Fidelity - Pure Audio" at top:

http://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85Z%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22%5BBlu-Ray+Audio%5D%22&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A%22%5BBlu-Ray+Audio%5D%22

Miles Davis - Ascenseur pour l'échafaud, I love that language!

I just ordered this on Amazon US, it says Universal UK on page,
so I am hoping they are all multiregion:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009X1SZFO/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
41TzDVdFIXL.jpg
Edited by bobpaule - 9/8/13 at 6:55am
post #40 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Listing of the approx 100 HFPA BD releases Universal Music Canada has scheduled for September 24, 2013 (link) . . . which also happens to be the Tuesday immediately preceding the start of CEDIA 2013 in Denver on September 25! biggrin.gif
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Where are you going to be able to buy these? I can't find them on Amazon CA or UK or the Universal Music site.
post #41 of 176
Here is my "Envy List" aka Wish List on Amazon.fr. Can
someone confirm if region free, cuz i'd hate to shell out
200+ Euros for nothing:

http://www.amazon.fr/registry/wishlist/PW6ZZM4JBVAQ

Looks like they chose La France to launch the new format
via the back door:

http://news.zurichna.com/article/2ed45ee8d63acd7023b10b7ef8d17d5f/the-high-fidelity-pure-audio-disc-the-stillborn-format

In the end I just need to chill out and wait for storm to settle and cracked case seconnd hand items to show up at 1/3 price:)
Edited by bobpaule - 9/8/13 at 3:26pm
post #42 of 176
I just noticed that AVCesar com reported after a press conference (link) "that the goal is to exceed 1000 HFPA titles released by the end of 2014."
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post #43 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

I just noticed that AVCesar com reported after a press conference (link) "that the goal is to exceed 1000 HFPA titles released by the end of 2014."
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That sounds a little ambitious if you ask me. From what I have read the mastering of these Blu-ray audio discs is not being disclosed. These discs could possibly be upconverted masterings of RBCDs from reading this thread over at the Steve Hoffman forum. Check out post #789 as it makes some valid points about the HFPA releases.

Bill
post #44 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

That sounds a little ambitious if you ask me. From what I have read the mastering of these Blu-ray audio discs is not being disclosed. These discs could possibly be upconverted masterings of RBCDs from reading this thread over at the Steve Hoffman forum. Check out post #789 as it makes some valid points about the HFPA releases.

Bill
Sure would be nice if we could get some clarification on the mastering issue. Right now I'm taking a wait and see approach even though a couple of titles look interesting. Post 789 on the SH forum makes a lot of sense.
post #45 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by acebreathe View Post

Sure would be nice if we could get some clarification on the mastering issue. Right now I'm taking a wait and see approach even though a couple of titles look interesting. Post 789 on the SH forum makes a lot of sense.

I just think if there will be over 1000 HFPA Bluray releases in 2014 there is no way the titles are being remastered. The chances that old RBCD masters are being used is most likely. I know very little about the remastering and remixing process of music. But I do know that I'm not interested in these titles if they are just upsampled (correct term?) RBCDs. I highly doubt there will be over a 1000 HFPA releases at all. I just don't think people will pay the additional cost for a format that could possibly not sound any better than the CD or download.

Although I'm down on SHM-SACDs due to the high prices there are new SHM-SACDs being released in the near future. The discussion over at the Steve Hoffman indicates that these SHM SACDs will have new masterings some straight from the original master tape to a high resolution DSD file. I know the SHM-SACDs will cost more but if there is a Crime of the Century release I'll be very interested smile.gif.

Bill
post #46 of 176
Music Direct has the first titles up for pre-order available October 8 at a price of 29.99 per disc. The blurb promises No compression No Compromise. Audio is taken from the original master tapes and mastered at 24/96 package includes download of the album in Flac Lossless via a voucher. 3 choices of sound format PSM Dolby True or DTS.
post #47 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by acebreathe View Post

Music Direct has the first titles up for pre-order available October 8 at a price of 29.99 per disc. The blurb promises No compression No Compromise. Audio is taken from the original master tapes and mastered at 24/96 package includes download of the album in Flac Lossless via a voucher. 3 choices of sound format PSM Dolby True or DTS.

Here is the listing from Music Direct. Sure enough that is what the listing says. The one that shocked me was Beck's Sea Change in 5.1 for $29.99. What surprises me is that this is the only title listed as 5.1. A majority of the titles listed are classical. I'll hold out buying any of them till I see some favorable reviews. Crime of the Century certainly looks interesting.

But I'm somewhat skeptical about the text below from the Music Direct listing.

Universal Music Group has gone back to the original master tapes to deliver fully uncompressed, high-resolution versions of many of your favorite albums. Mastered at 24bit/96k, the label’s Blu-Ray Pure Audio Discs deliver the sound the artists heard in the studio when these classic albums were recorded.

Bill
post #48 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Here is the listing from Music Direct. Sure enough that is what the listing says. The one that shocked me was Beck's Sea Change in 5.1 for $29.99. What surprises me is that this is the only title listed as 5.1. A majority of the titles listed are classical. I'll hold out buying any of them till I see some favorable reviews. Crime of the Century certainly looks interesting. [/I][/B]

Bill

It's been confirmed by people who've purchased it it in Europe that Serge Gainsbourg's Histoire De Melody Nelson is in 5.1 for the Blu-ray Pure Audio release. I think it's been the only 5.1 release so far, yet Music Direct doesn't mention 5.1. It must be the same version, I can't imagine they'd make a change like that for the U.S. market.
post #49 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odys View Post

It's been confirmed by people who've purchased it it in Europe that Serge Gainsbourg's Histoire De Melody Nelson is in 5.1 for the Blu-ray Pure Audio release. I think it's been the only 5.1 release so far, yet Music Direct doesn't mention 5.1. It must be the same version, I can't imagine they'd make a change like that for the U.S. market.

Thats good to know, thanks for posting that information smile.gif. I would really like these HFPA titles to be a huge success and that they sound excellent. But for some reason I'm a bit skeptical about them. I hope my doubts are proven wrong.

Bill
post #50 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Thats good to know, thanks for posting that information smile.gif. I would really like these HFPA titles to be a huge success and that they sound excellent. But for some reason I'm a bit skeptical about them. I hope my doubts are proven wrong.

Bill
Hope they are too. Likewise skeptical. I do like the way Grrrr sounds for the most part but then again a lot of those cuts were supposedly from the SACD overhaul that ABKO did. Gainsbourg's disc is one of the ones that I'm interested in as well as Exile although I don't hold out much hope for the sound being all that great on that one. At least we have a release date so reviews should be forthcoming not too long after.
post #51 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Here is the listing from Music Direct. Sure enough that is what the listing says. The one that shocked me was Beck's Sea Change in 5.1 for $29.99. What surprises me is that this is the only title listed as 5.1. A majority of the titles listed are classical. I'll hold out buying any of them till I see some favorable reviews. Crime of the Century certainly looks interesting.

But I'm somewhat skeptical about the text below from the Music Direct listing.

Universal Music Group has gone back to the original master tapes to deliver fully uncompressed, high-resolution versions of many of your favorite albums. Mastered at 24bit/96k, the label’s Blu-Ray Pure Audio Discs deliver the sound the artists heard in the studio when these classic albums were recorded.

Bill
The Nick Drake disc, Five Leaves Left, also listed as 5.1.
post #52 of 176
A Night at the Opera QUEEN is also listed as 5.1 for $29.99
post #53 of 176
Did I miss something? Weren't we supposed to see "High Resolution Audio on Blu-ray" disc releases starting in November 2012, from the Promotion Group for Blu-ray Disc High Resolution Audio, comprised of Japanese companies Memory-Tech, Krypton, Q-tec and Camerata Tokyo? From the Blu-ray Disc(TM) on the disc cover in this image, I'd assume the disc was compliant with existing BD players...?! Did the format|concept "come-and-go" already?


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post #54 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Did the format|concept "come-and-go" already?

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Its never been anything but pure marketing hype. BD-Audio is nothing more than BD absent the video, its the same identical format. 2L was making BD audio discs before it became a "format". This was the BDA attempting to coerce audio sellers to jump on a "new format", but they lined up to ignore the BDA.
post #55 of 176
Elusive Disc has information posted on their site for all of the upcoming releases. They all look like they have 2.0 and 5.1 mixes. Personally I might be tempted, Beck See of Change and others mentioned above. A lot of marketing hype, bitrates, etc. Example Rolling Stones Exile:

Features:
• Blu-ray - Audio Only
• High-Fidelity Pure Audio
• Playable on Blu-Ray player or PS3 console
• Audio taken from original master tapes and delivered in 24bit/96 khz
• 2.0 DTS, Dolby TruHD and PCM Mixes
• Limited time voucher for digital download of the album in FLAC Lossless and MP3 format
Audio is taken from the original master tapes and delivered in 24bit/96 khz with 3 choices of sound format: PSM, Dolby True HD or DTS
High Fidelity Pure Audio Format: HD Formats 2.1 / 5.1; PCM Non-Compressed; DTS HD Master Audio; Dolby True HD
post #56 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Elusive Disc has information posted on their site for all of the upcoming releases. They all look like they have 2.0 and 5.1 mixes. Personally I might be tempted, Beck See of Change and others mentioned above. A lot of marketing hype, bitrates, etc. Example Rolling Stones Exile:

Features:
• Blu-ray - Audio Only
• High-Fidelity Pure Audio
• Playable on Blu-Ray player or PS3 console
• Audio taken from original master tapes and delivered in 24bit/96 khz
• 2.0 DTS, Dolby TruHD and PCM Mixes
• Limited time voucher for digital download of the album in FLAC Lossless and MP3 format
Audio is taken from the original master tapes and delivered in 24bit/96 khz with 3 choices of sound format: PSM, Dolby True HD or DTS
High Fidelity Pure Audio Format: HD Formats 2.1 / 5.1; PCM Non-Compressed; DTS HD Master Audio; Dolby True HD
Pretty much the same info as Music Direct. They are not all 2.0 and 5.1. Some have both some are just 2.0.
post #57 of 176
Thanks! for sharing all.
post #58 of 176
OK here is the entire October 8 US release list, some of the France release discs missing:

http://www.musicdirect.com/c-805-Blu-Ray-Pure-Audio-Disc.aspx

Beck's Sea Change hopefully lives up to the SACD version, oh boy, paid a lot for that one.

Good thing I looked before ordering, prices on ebay.co.uk and amazon.co.uk are going up.
Amazon.ca has shortages already.

This French "Lady Gaga" exclusive I liked right away so I ordered it:

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/recsradio/radio/B00C4YPUG4/ref=pd_krex_dp_a


Edited by bobpaule - 9/28/13 at 10:44am
post #59 of 176
There's a whole bunch of discs on that list with no release date. Not a promising start.
post #60 of 176

What About DXD? Surprise!

Dr. AIX

One of the new digital formats on the block is called DXD. It stands for Digital Extreme Definition. It was initially develop by Megining Technology for their Pyramix DSD workstation because of the difficulties associated with amplitude changes, EQ and crossfades. It was endorsed by both Sony and Phillips as a viable tool for the preparation of SACD masters. There has long been a close association between DSD and DXD...but there shouldn't be. DXD is nothing but 24-bit PCM with a very high sampling rate of 352.8 kHz. It would be nice if it was named accurately.

There are a few modern DACs that support the format (and it's ultra HD PCM flavor of 384 kHz sampling rate at 24-32-bits) and even a few digital music stores that make DXD files available for download. My friend Morten Lynberg of 2L Records uses the format to capture his amazing source recordings and then downconverts the original DXD files to a variety of flavors including 192 kHz/24-bit FLAC and DSD 64 files. He also sells the original DXD files for a very premium price.

There are several important questions that need to be answered when we start to consider Ultra HD-Audio standards (I've borrowed the Ultra HD-Audio name from the next generation video standard, which was recently renamed Ultra HD from 4K video). The first question is do we actually need the additional octave or two that moving the sampling rate so high provides? Is there really any meaningful sound up there? Maybe the reason is because the filtering needed at lower sample rates becomes unnecessary when you get to 352.8 or 384 kHz.

My general feeling is that we haven't yet taken advantage of the bandwidth available using a sampling rate of 96 kHz so why bother quadrupling the file size of a soundfile that sounds the same…or worse. I decided to take a look at some DXD files and see what I could see.

I got a hold of a couple of DXD files and opened them up in Adobe Audition. The program complained that it wouldn't be able to play back the files AND I do not currently own a DAC capable of playing a native DXD file. But since these are in reality PCM files, I clicked OK on the warning screen and presto...the files opened just like any other PCM soundfile. And the program displayed a spectragraph of the DXD files.

I was astounded at what I saw. Knowing that these were PCM files, I would have expected to see a rich area of amplitude in the 20-20 kHz range with some additional sound (the upper most partials) drifting past 25kHz to around 40-50 kHz. Anything higher than that would be visually and aurally invisible. But as you can see from the plot below, the ultrasonic frequencies exhibited the same "purple haze" that is the signature of DSD files (of any sampling rate). Could it be that Pyramix is really using a multibit DSD technology and merely calling it DXD?

dxd_spectra

Figure 1 - The spectragraph of an original DXD file and the derivative PCM files at 192, 96 and 44.1 kHz. (Click to enlarge)

To be fair, the haze in this file begins in ernest around 50 kHz and rises to a very troubling -70 dB at its peak. This ultrasonic noise is never going to be heard but why would you want to pay big dollars for an oversized sound file only to discover that the meat of the music stops at around 35 kHz...well within the range of a PCM file at 96 kHz!

The PCM files that are derived from the DXD source don't display the same problems as the DXD within their own frequency ranges. The green line of the 192 kHz stuff is that same noise. Even the 96 kHz file shows hints of the same HF noise. The only file that doesn't have the noise is the lowly CD, which might after all be the best sonically.

I'm going to do some additional research on the DXD format. I can think of no reason why the ultrasonics would contain this DSD-like noise unless it is somehow a DSD 256 format. Then what's the point of having a DXD format at all? And why are sites that sell DXD files often 30-50% more expensive than HD-Audio PCM files at 96 kHz? The files are huge and you seemingly get not benefit.

I've decided I will have to reach out to a hardware vendor and record a new file at Ultra HD-Audio specifications...just to see if the HF looks like this DXD plot. Interesting...

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